UH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4193 times:
We were having this discussion over on a Non-Av thread, and not wanting to derail that thread, I'm moving the discussion over here.
Basically we were discussing whether or not the United States Coast Guard was considered a military service branch. It's not intended to be a slight against those serving in the USCG - because lets face it, intentionally taking your boat into a storm at sea, to save a stricken ship... takes balls.
The USCG pre-9/11 was controlled under the US Dept of Transportation, and now falls under the US Dept of Homeland Security. They're not DoD. And if we're going to argue that they are military based on the fact that they're doing a dangerous mission, protecting the country, etc... well quite a few government agencies also fall under that argument. The FBI, Boarder Patrol/Customs, ATF, DEA, etc...
So on Veterans Day, how come we don't see people paying respect to the USCG? How come at DoD ceremonies there are only 4 Service Flags visible? Why don't they have a JCS slot? Can people who served in the USCG be buried in military cemeteries?
StudeDave From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 392 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4181 times:
Quoting P3Orion (Reply 1): When I was at Boot camp, for the Navy ('91); we were taught the USCG became a part of the military during "times of war."
As was I several years earlier. I think that they ought to be considered a DoD component. They deploy to areas of the World other then the Coasts of the US...
I've seen them in the Gulf steaming side by side with other ships of the World's Navies, doing their part in the War on Terrorism. Last night here in San Diego I heard their HH60 turning well into the night, near Midnight, and that tells me that they also work long hours here 'on the beach' at home... just like the rest of the MILITARY!!!!
[Edited 2006-11-12 19:48:04]
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11706 posts, RR: 52 Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4181 times:
The USCG is a full US Military service. During peace time, they are not assigned to the DOD. That is because the USCG has a significant law enforcement mission and the DOD is not allowed (by the possie comlatdy act of 1867) into law enforcement. True, the NG and ANG units do, but only when not activated into active service, and still under state control.
During war time, the POTUS can order the USCG to be assigned to the USN. We last did this during WWII, when the USCG picked up convoy escort missions, ASW, and just about every landing craft that stromed the beaches of the Pacific and in Europe was piloted by a Coastie. The Coast Guard also sailed destroyers, destroyer escorts, cargo ships, tankers, supply ships, and a few PT Boats.
During WWII, a Coastie landing craft pilot was posthumosly awarded the MOH for rescueing 35 Marines from a beach on Guadlecanal. So far he is the only USCG member to be awarded the Medal of Honor.
In some cities and states, they do show the USCG as one of 5 US Military Branches on Veterans Day and Memorial Day. They don't have a JCS position because the JCS is a DOD department, and the CG is not part of the DOD, unless during war time, then they are represented by the CNO. Yes, Coasties can be buried in any National Cemetery.
Today, we have Coasties assigned to USN warships in the Persian Gulf, and they do ship boardings. Coasties also help protect oil platforms in the Gulf. To date, 6 or 7 Coasties have given their lives in OIF.
The Coast Guard has not only the rescue mission, but law enforcement, as well as a wartime mission.
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3): Today, we have Coasties assigned to USN warships in the Persian Gulf, and they do ship boardings. Coasties also help protect oil platforms in the Gulf. To date, 6 or 7 Coasties have given their lives in OIF.
I've worked with some federal agents here in Iraq. I remember a few FBI guys were working out here a few months ago. And there are always CIA spooks coming and going. All of those guys were working far from home, in a war zone, fighting for their country... are they military?
And if Canada invaded tomorrow (HA! Wouldn't that be a sight!) couldn't POTUS order the boarder patrol to fall under the DoD? Would they then also because a "military" branch? And here's another question - during times of war, when the USCG falls under the DoD... who controls their budget? Is it the DoD or still DHS? And lastly, does the USCG fall under UCMJ?
FlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4167 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3): In some cities and states, they do show the USCG as one of 5 US Military Branches on Veterans Day and Memorial Day.
The only reason some don't is because they don't know any better. And although I GUESS I can understand their ignorance on the subject, it still pisses me off. I even went to a memorial day service at a cemetery once with my dad and they played the armed forces medley and got the Coast Guard Anthem WRONG! Most music downloading programs have that version on them with the wrong CG part.
And as KC135 said, the CG is one of the FIVE branches of the Armed Services. I have some thing at home that said it became official in the 1960's by some Congressional Act.
RichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4146 times:
The Coast Guard as established January 28, 1915, shall be a military service and a branch of the armed forces of the United States at all times. The Coast Guard shall be a service in the Department of Homeland Security, except when operating as a service in the Navy.
Upon the declaration of war or when the President directs, the Coast Guard shall operate as a service in the Navy, and shall so continue until the President, by Executive order, transfers the Coast Guard back to the Department of Homeland Security. While operating as a service in the Navy, the Coast Guard shall be subject to the orders of the Secretary of the Navy who may order changes in Coast Guard operations to render them uniform, to the extent he deems advisable, with Navy operations.
UH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4144 times:
Quote: As members of a military service, Coast Guardsmen on active and reserve service are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice and receive the same pay and allowances as members of the same pay grades in the other four armed services.
I suppose that settles it then. What's odd - and what sparked me to ask this question - was last Friday, we were sitting around the QRF, room and Armed Forces Network was airing the Veteran's Day ceremony at the Pentagon.
...There was no mention, nor any visible presence of, the USCG. Does the CG have a Honor Guard in DC? Another thing I found interesting when I was reading that article, "Of the 40 largest navies in the world, the Coast Guard's is the 38th oldest."
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4075 times:
Quoting TPAnx (Reply 10): Ask the "brown water navy" personnel from Vietnam!
The name "brown water Navy" refers to actual US Navy units, not to Coast Guard. (I know, I rode on PBRs for "fun" during my time in Vietnam.) They had units in the Mekong delta and, I believe all along the coastal waters. The Coast Guard was also in Vietnam but unrelated to this Navy activity.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4047 times:
Hey, UH60 if you're lucky Halls120 won't see this thread, I believe he is a USCGA grad, and served 20 plus years. Two brothers served in the USCG, and yes they are military, the CG bootcamp back in the 70's would make the Army/Air Force/Navy look like a day in the park.
FlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4034 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 12): the CG bootcamp back in the 70's would make the Army/Air Force/Navy look like a day in the park.
I would imagine USCG OCS is the same way today
USCG OCS: 17 weeks
USA OCS: 14 weeks
USAF BOT: 12 weeks
USN OCS: 12 weeks
USMC OCS: 10 weeks (although I believe there is another part of it in the field that is longer and tougher than all of the above)
Because there are a huge number of people who don't understand the role of the Coast Guard. During my active duty career, I can't tell you how many times I had to tell Army and Air Force lawyers that yes, the Coast Guard was part of the Armed Forces and subject to the UCMJ. Never had that problem with the Navy and Marines.
Quoting P3Orion (Reply 1): When I was at Boot camp, for the Navy ('91); we were taught the USCG became a part of the military during "times of war."
You were taught wrong. What your DI probably meant to refer to is the statutory provision that allows the President to move the Coast Guard from the department in which it is operating to the Department of the Navy.
Whoa there junior... if you're gonna start a dick measuring contest, make sure you get your facts straight.
All four branches require OCS civilian recruits to go to basic training first. And the USA/USMC requires ALL OCS recruits to attend BOLC (pronounce Bow-Lick) which is 6weeks long, just prior to attending OCS.
So in all fairness none of those figures accurately depict the true commitment it takes for any of those branches. The Army and the Marines, for example, require their officers to attend BOLC - a 6 week course in infantry tactics. And there is something to be said about quality of training verse total time of training! Take the AF for example. A few there officers were telling me that they didn't have midnight suicide runs, chow hall rights, tac-ally procedures, etc. (All of which is found at USA OCS/WOCS) ...Their training reflected the branch as a whole - laid back!
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4001 times:
Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 14): Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):Is The U.S.C.G. Considered "Military"
Not by the other 4 branches.
No excusing others ignorance, of course.
Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 14): Quoting AirCop (Reply 12):the CG bootcamp back in the 70's would make the Army/Air Force/Navy look like a day in the park.
You're kidding me right? I'll debate this any damn day of the week.
I'm with Usnseallt82 on this one. CG boot camp has never been any more rigorous than the other services, and clearly not the equal of the Marine experience.
Tell me about it. That's why I married a civilian. And as she puts it, "I have no issues with you working and flying with females. I've met them. I'm not worried."
Although... when I was at AIT at Fort Eustis... it was integrated training with females. And I admit I was fooling around with a couple of them. Of course so was probably 1/2 of the entire base. **shrugs**
Funny thing is - had that been a Navy base, I probably would have had those chicks all to myself. Considering the typical sailor (**cough Usnseallt82) wouldn't know what to do with a female, even if I drew him a map, and lit the path with some chem-lites!
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3980 times:
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 19): Quoting Halls120 (Reply 17):I'm with Usnseallt82 on this one. CG boot camp has never been any more rigorous than the other services, and clearly not the equal of the Marine experience.
Oh come'on Halls! The USAF basic training program is BRUTAL! I even heard their drill instructors woke the recruits up at.... 0600!!! That's HARSH!
as proud as I am to have been a coastie, I will never understand why the service refuses to institute mandatory physical fitness standards for active duty personnel.
so while I might agree that CG boot camp is harder than the slackers in teh air force, at least they have an annual PFT, which is more than I can say about the CG.
Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 20): Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 19):Pfff... we all know what goes on at Navy boot camp. I hear knee pads are standard issue.
At least we know the gender of our recruits. Can't say the same for most Army women. Ê
Years ago I was the assigned prosecutor for a Coast Guard training center that had no lawyers assigned. It wasn't boot camp, but one of the "A" schools for advanced enlisted training. Anyway, the cooks school was undergoing a bad run of students being kicked out for homosexuality, and as such I was a frequent visitor to the command. I always tried to eat lunch at the school, because the product was usually quite good. So one day I'm out there and the Master Chief of schools sees me and his face drops. I said relax, Master Chief, it's the Radioman's school this time. I never saw a happier guy than that E-9.
Yeah but the question is... would you know what to do at the end of the path? The anatomy is a bit different than what they taught you in Navy basic.
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 22): at least they have an annual PFT, which is more than I can say about the CG.
Seriously? WTF is up with that? We've got a PFT every 90 days, even in Iraq.
"Here Private Snuffy."
"What's this, sir?"
"It's a Kevlar Helmet and a PFT uniform, Snuffy."
"...I know that, sir. But why do I need a PFT uniform AND a k-pot?"
"Because today you're having a PT test..."
"A PT test, sir? While weaing a k-pot?"
"Damn right, Snuffy. Don't you know there are constant mortar attacks? Now get running shit-for-brains, you've got 14 minutes to complete your two mile run. Starting..... NOW!" ***flash forward 5 minutes as Snuffy is running his 2mile in the 130degree heat**
"Fuck this. I should have joined the Coast Guard."
25 Halls120: Sad but true. After the first Gulf War, the Chief Medical Officer of the Coast Guard delivered a report to the Commandant, Admiral Kime. He noted tha
26 Sprout5199: You know whats funny about this? When I was at Mayport, we would go up to Ft. Stewart(sp?) in Ga. and nail all the wives whose hubbys were "in the fi
27 Halls120: You know what was funny about being in New London? Every time a sub would leave on six month deployment, we cadets had a field day with submarine wid
28 MDorBust: WTF?! That's is just wrong!! Who let that soldier out without his body armor on?
29 Sprout5199: Ahhh the "west-pac widows", did a few myself. One reason I didnt get married when I was in. I believe it is regulations. I know we never had a pilot
30 AirSpare: This was such a funny thread, I hate to post this... When I was AD USAF, they taught us the the USMC fell under the Department of the Navy, and the U
31 Jwenting: No, they're not. FBI is federal police and counter intel, civilian. CIA is intel, also civilian. Both can and have been deployed abroad both overtly
32 UH60FtRucker: I know Jwenting... it was a rhetorical question. I'm pretty sure Slammy was referring to the b.water navy of Vietnam, specifically. And while the USC
33 Jwenting: You never know. So many ignorant kids here thinking every American outside the US is a soldier for the Bushitlerite Halliburton Zionist world dominat
34 UH60FtRucker: Yeah... and I've given the impression that I am one of those. I understand. Easy mistake to make. -UH60
35 Bingo: Glad to see we arent the only ones with stupid kids. Kids here think the Dutch come from Dutchland.... It should be interesting to hear what the worl
36 SlamClick: You are correct sir, and I am understandably reluctant to honor other claims to the title.
37 ANCFlyer: IMO, and by statute, the USCG is as much a part of the military as any other. Having worked with a lot of great "Coasties" in the Caribbean I can tell
38 Bingo: I loved every min of the 8 years I spent down there. To give you an idea how dedicated these folks are, they needed a place to land the Choppers brin
39 ElmoTheHobo: ... errr Air Force does the same. As for Air Force basic there is no need for the "strenuous" training that the Marines and Army go through - most of