Turpentyine From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 154 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
I posted this topic about the Airforce and now I am interested about the Navy.
I am thinking about joining the US Navy after I finish college this year. I am 23. is that too old? the only reason I want to join is to fly planes. I don't have 20/20. is it still possible? how do they determine what plane you get to fly? also do they determine if u r elgible to fly after u sign the contract or before? I don't want to join and then end up not flying and being stuck there. I am about get my PPL soon.
thanks for your help.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 32767 times:
You want to join for all the wrong reasons.
You join the armed forces because you want to defend your country, not because you want to be Tom Cruise dating the hot female Top Gun instructor!
You join the navy, the navy decides where you're going to go and what you're going to do there.
Your preferences in that have maybe some influence, but the navy's needs are far more important.
If you get selected for pilot officer training you can still end up never seeing an aircraft, unless as a passenger or mechanic.
And if you get to fly (small chance, especially with an attitude like yours, not caring about the job but only the planes) there's no guarantee it will be the high profile fighter aircraft zipping off carriers with port leave in exotic locations where you can seduce nice girls with your white uniform.
Hate to say it man, but these two statements by Jwenting say it perfectly...
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 1): You join the navy, the navy decides where you're going to go and what you're going to do there.
Your preferences in that have maybe some influence, but the navy's needs are far more important.
That being said, don't give up hope. You need to contact a local officer recruiter and discuss what options are available to you. Make sure you speak with an officer recruiter and not a normal recruiter, as the officer recruiters will be able to direct you towards aviation.
On that note, please feel free to contact me anytime and I will give you more specific details about what to do. I'm guessing you're about to get your degree or already have it, right? Let me know some more details about you and I can help a lot more.
Everyone said this to you in your previous thread about the USAF... what makes you think their responses are going to be any different this time?
You don't join the military only because you want to fly. Because the truth is - you'll have additional duties, you'll be tasked with non-flight responsibilities and you'll live in the military atmosphere.
In all honesty - it's a lifestyle more than it's a job. And from reading your responses on the previous thread... I don't know if you'd be joining for the proper reasons.
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3): You don't join the military only because you want to fly. Because the truth is - you'll have additional duties, you'll be tasked with non-flight responsibilities and you'll live in the military atmosphere.
Spot on, like I said before.
This is especially apparent in the Navy because we assign you a primary duty, like legal officer or operations officer, in the squadron that becomes your first and foremost responsibility. Then, as a secondary duty, you fly. That's the way we've done business for a while now and it won't change anytime soon.
So, point being....you have to want to be an OFFICER first, then an aviator. But, like I said before, don't give up hope. There are plenty of positions available, so I urge you to contact an officer recruiter and then email me about some of your details. I'll try to help as much as I can.
I enjoy living in the field. I enjoy working closely with the ground commanders.
In Iraq, I watch the Navy and Air Force guys - and they spend their entire deployment inside the walls of the base. The only times they go beyond the wire is when they're on board an aircraft or helicopter.
The Army has emphasized that everyone is a SOLDIER before their primary job. That means you go on patrols, you go on convoys, you pull guard duty, etc... And as a pilot, you will live with the ground troops out in the field. Which I've always enjoyed.
Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 4): So, point being....you have to want to be an OFFICER first, then an aviator. But, like I said before, don't give up hope. There are plenty of positions available, so I urge you to contact an officer recruiter and then email me about some of your details. I'll try to help as much as I can.
Don't worry, I don't see it that way either. I just have to censor what I would usually say in response to some Army fag shootin shit my way.
When I say stuff about you, ground humpin that is, it is with a slight bit of envy these days. Like you said, most of our time is either at altitude with no real contact or safely in international waters. Gets old after a while, but that'll be the only public complaint you hear from me, damnit.
StudeDave From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 421 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Having worked for Navy pilots for most of my 18 years in the NAVY, I can tell you that these guys are spot on with the advice they have provided. Well, except the part about being on your knees~ that's a submariner thing!!!
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 4): This is especially apparent in the Navy because we assign you a primary duty, like legal officer or operations officer, in the squadron that becomes your first and foremost responsibility. Then, as a secondary duty, you fly. That's the way we've done business for a while now and it won't change anytime soon.
that is, if you become a pilot at all.
For every flying job there are many non-flying jobs, for officers too, and just having a PPL and joining "because you want to fly planes" isn't going to impress the selection board one bit. In fact it will likely work against you because it shows all the wrong attitude.
He's more likely to end up at some maintenance depot or flying a desk in the Mohave dessert
Well yeah. That's why he needs to get a hold of an officer recruiter to see where he stands. Fact of the matter is, aviation is competitive as hell and if you don't have enough clout to go in with a good application, you won't get anywhere.
Gotta contact that officer recruiter first, though, to get the ball rolling. THEN you know where you stand.
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Jwenting, don't be so negative with the guy- he's merely asking a question. Have you tried to become a Naval Aviator yourself? I beg to differ about the PPL- if anything, that shows them that he has some level of competency and is at least motivated in the right direction. When it comes to AF pilot slots, that holds tremendous weight. That PPL and any other license will only help you.
Turp, the situation you're faced with is not an uncommon one, and one you'll have to decide on your own. Unfortunately Naval Aviation isn't what it was 20 yrs ago, and it can be hard to get a seat these days unless you're a Boat School grad (not saying that NROTC or OCS doesn't produce anymore). The problem is that you won't have any guarantees at all- none that you'll be flying vs driving a frigate, or P-3's vs Hornets, etc. It's all about the needs of the Navy. As they say, Naval Officer first, Pilot second.
That's all well and good, but if you honestly love flying and could take or leave all of the other business, I say stick with the AF- granted you'll have some collateral duties there as well, but if you're a pilot, you're exactly that- a pilot. They'll never give you a dissassociated sea tour and make you a blackshoe on the boat for 3 yrs, and they'll generally keep you around the flying community until you're a senior citizen (O5 and above )
The guaranteed Army program is a good deal in a way, but that is if you want to be a rotorhead- helo time is about as good as VD if you're ever looking into getting an airline job down the road.
I've known plenty of guys who've joined the mil to become an airline pilot, specifically that. Nothing wrong with it if you ask me, just don't be vocal about it and don't act like you're only there until the day your contract expires, otherwise you'll have a shitty run. Make the most of that time while you're there.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
his posting history shows his immaturity (this isn't the first time he's asked something like this).
His reasons to want to join the armed forces are purely and simply to get to fly aircraft with someone else paying for it.
That's NOT a good reason to join the armed forces.
Had my physical condition allowed it at the time I'd likely have applied to become a professional officer in our air force, and applied for flight training as well.
But I'd NOT have joined because I want to fly aircraft (though it would have been a nice bonues) but to defend my country.
Sadly I was turned down for military service (we still had conscription at the time) on medical grounds which means I am permanently barred from joining up (and by now my physical has gotten worse, the armed forces smaller, and me too old anyway).
This kid OTOH doesn't seem to care jackshit about the mission, he just wants to become a flyboy and zoom along at the expense of uncle Sam, he'd likely wet his pants when reading deployment orders anywhere he might get shot at and try his hardest to get out from under such an assignment.
Yeah, but who cares? He's asking legitimate questions now and looking for straight-forward answers. I don't fault him for wanting to know the real deal when he's probably getting the sugar-coated version from the recruiters.
He's motives are his own business. The system is pretty good at weeding out those types of people these days, especially with it being so competitive. Yes, self-absorbed hour-counters get through, but they have to endure far more crap that comes with being an officer before they even remotely touch a plane.
So, that being said, I say just cut the guy some slack and answer his questions. If he goes in for the wrong reasons, he'll know it pretty quickly and will likely quit or be rerouted to something he doesn't want to do. As long as he knows this in advance and is willing to take that risk, he can have at it. Far be it for US to judge his intentions.
Lastly, Turpentyine, if you are interested in joining the military and are seriously prepared to accept the responsibility as an OFFICER first and foremost, then please feel free to contact me anytime and we'll discuss details. However, be advised that you always run the risk of being put somewhere that you don't want to be, if you don't measure up to standards or if the Navy needs you elsewhere. We all have to deal with this fact and live our lives accordingly.
But if you are ready for the challenge, then I wish the best of luck throughout your process.
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Quoting Vref5 (Reply 13): I'm not ex-military, but I've heard in the past that having previous flying experience could sometimes be a bad thing because that can mean more bad skills to unlearn.
Not true. Depending on who you talk to (my info coming from a former Commodore of the Training Command), with a PPL and Instrument you have an 88% chance of making it through training, vice something in the 60%'s without any experience at all. I believe the first number firmly, as instruments are instruments and it'll pay dividends if you can read them without thinking.
You can see that the $10G spent on those ratings are money in the bank.
Vref5 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 15): Not true. Depending on who you talk to (my info coming from a former Commodore of the Training Command), with a PPL and Instrument you have an 88% chance of making it through training, vice something in the 60%'s without any experience at all.
KevinSmith From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
What, the Army's not good enough for you? The Army is the only branch that guarantees a flight slot when you sign your contract. (WOCS grads only - OCS grads have no guarantee)
The USN will guarantee you a flight spot, pilot or Naval Flight Officer, prior to going to OCS. I've had some friends go through recently.
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 5): The Army has emphasized that everyone is a SOLDIER before their primary job.
Marine Corp is the same way. It is just a difference in doctrine really. The Navy emphasizes sailor first, hencforth going beyond the wire is something foreign to them, hell being on land is foreign. Same thing with the Air Force being airmen, going outside the wire is not something we are often called to do. A difference in doctrine doesn't mean that one is better than the other.
One of the top things they teach you in officer training.
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 1): You join the armed forces because you want to defend your country
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 1):
You join the navy, the navy decides where you're going to go and what you're going to do there
As for you vision don't worry about it. That is correctable. Not only that but you could be a NFO (navigator). Age for you really isn't a factor at this point. Max age for a non-prior enlisted flight candidate is 30.
They determine what plane you fly by how well you do in flight school (most important) , anthro measurements, and a couple of other physiological factors.
If you haven't already I suggest you look at the oath you take upon commissioning as an officer of the United States military.
"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."
No where in there does it say "I will do all this but only if I get a pilot slot." I myself am in flight training and I have to constantly remind myself that I took an oath to be an officer. I could get kicked out of flight school tomorrow, but it doesn't matter, I took the oath. It doesn't matter if I am supervising flap jack flippers in the chow hall or pulling 5 Gs in a T-6, I took an oath to defend the Constitution of the US as an officer.
With all that said if the drive is there YOU CAN DO IT, you heart has to be in the right place first. If you still find that you want to pursue a flight career check with officer recruiters both Air Force and Navy. The Navy generally accepts a lot more people into flight training than the Air Force. They also wash more.
The Air Force generally doesn't wash as many out. If you don't want to get eye surgery definately check the Air Force out. They are hurting for Navigators. Basic vision requirement for nav is 20/200.
If you don't want to be a commissioned officer the Navy has just started up a program that allows Warrant Officers to fly as NFOs (Navy word for Navigators) or as helicopter pilots. I'm not 100% sure on the NFOs but I am sure that they are letting them be helo pilots. YES the program is up and running. The first batch of the candidates just checked into API a couple of weeks ago.
Lastly DO NOT let the word navigator scare you. Navigators do more than just tell the pilot where to fly the airplane. I am on the strike nav track which means that I am tracked into B-1s, B-52s, or F-15Es (all BAD ASS airplanes) I'll be the one dropping the bombs, well if all goes well. I've got A LOT of flight school left.
Blackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
In addition to all mentioned above...
I found out as a teenager, that there's a body measurement requirement to make sure you'd fit in every aircraft used in the Navy (Normally not a big deal, but the Navy uses an A-4 variant as a trainer, which is the most cramped fighter known to man) and considering I'm between 6-2 and 6-3, and have been that size since I was a teenager, I figured that ain't gonna happen! Damn shame too, I have a good aim, and good reflexes, and am difficult to disorient.
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 1): And if you get to fly (small chance, especially with an attitude like yours, not caring about the job but only the planes) there's no guarantee it will be the high profile fighter aircraft zipping off carriers with port leave in exotic locations where you can seduce nice girls with your white uniform.
He wants to fly high performance airplanes. That's the draw. He doesn't want to go into the service and end up doing something that doesn't appeal to him. He has a goal and wants to know how to reach it, if it can be reached. There's nothing wrong with that. What he needs, and some of the folks in this forum have tried to provide, is an understanding of how things work in the Air Force and Navy "before" he signs on the dotted line. If flying airplanes is the principle focus of his attention, and serving the nation is somewhere on the back burner, he "might" find satisfaction in some sort of civilian flying job. He's already working on his private pilot license.
UH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Quoting KevinSmith (Reply 19): The Navy emphasizes sailor first, hencforth going beyond the wire is something foreign to them, hell being on land is foreign. Same thing with the Air Force being airmen, going outside the wire is not something we are often called to do. A difference in doctrine doesn't mean that one is better than the other.
I don't think I was suggesting a certain branch is better than another... because heck... we all know the Army puts everyone else to shame.
No, but seriously, my point was that in today's military everyone in the US Military needs to be a "soldier" at their core -- no matter what branch you're in.
Just because it is "foreign" for a sailor to go beyond the wire, doesn't mean he should train for it. Because what we're seeing in the sandbox, is both sailors and airmen who are being required to go beyond the wire. And what's happening in Iraq, is a commander ordering sailors and airmen to go beyond the wire, only to hear from many of them, "I don't know what to do."
That's unacceptable. As a US Soldier, you ought to know how to utilize the M2 .50cal. You ought to know how to load a the Mk19. You ought to have 90day marksmanship proficiency training with your M16/M4. You ought to know actions on contact. You ought to know how to safely/effectively clear a room. Etc...
And yes, that's slowly changing in the Navy/Air Force... and hopefully this sort of valuable training doesn't stop when we eventually get out of Iraq. It's vital everyone knows what to do. Because we can no longer just rely on the Army and the Marines to solely provide the boots on the ground.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 21): He wants to fly high performance airplanes. That's the draw. He doesn't want to go into the service and end up doing something that doesn't appeal to him. He has a goal and wants to know how to reach it, if it can be reached. There's nothing wrong with that
There is something wrong with that. His motivations for joining the armed forces are wrong.
The primary motivation should ALWAYS be to defend your country, but he wants to join solely to have someone else pay him to fly high performance jets.
Wrong reason, for all the reasons given already.
Not only is there no guarantee at all he'll get a flying job, but if he does there's no guarantee it will be as a pilot let alone in high performance aircraft.
He could find himself a flight engineer on an E-2 for example for his entire career, with his motivation he'd be very unhappy at least (and from his writings might quit or desert).
Or he could find himself in a control tower at an NAS directing ground traffic for several years.
I also doubt his motivation and sense of duty if and when he'd be sent to a warzone. Were I a military pilot I'd not want this kid as a wingman, no matter his flying skills. His lack of dedication to duty makes him unreliable when things get dangerous, he might bolt and leave me out there in unfriendly skies on my own.
I wish I were flying
25 Tlfd29: Lesson I learned the hard way: If you have asthma don't even think about telling them. You'll never make it into any branch of the military.
26 Blackbird: Even though the TA-4 was retired, I think the body dimension requirement is still in effect. Some kind of throwback or something. Andrea Kent
27 Daveflys0509: I joined the Navy after college via OCS. You are guaranteed a pilot slot before you sign, of course this is on the condition that you finish OCS and
28 Blackbird: To Daveflys0509, What's the minimum age you can enter OCS at? Andrea Kent
29 KevinSmith: IIRC you have to commission no later than your 30th. I think 30 is the age limit for flying too.
30 Blackbird: I didn't say maximum age, I said minimum age[Edited 2007-04-13 04:51:19]
31 KevinSmith: Ha!! Oops. I do apologize. I'm so used to getting asked the opposite. 17 w/parental consent 18 otherwise. Those are the minimums, however you need to
32 L-188: I think it is dependent on how desperate they are for personel at that particular moment. The rules may stay on the books, but it is amazing how easy
33 Daveflys0509: Pretty much what Kevinsmith just said, you just really need a 4 year degree.. when we were in OCS, there was someone a few classes behind us who was 2
34 Jwenting: And rightly so. Your physical condition will be below par, and what would you do when you have to cough and wheeze while silence is called for? Or wh
35 UH60FtRucker: Great point Jwenting. 6 years ago when I was in basic we had a recruit in another company DIE because he hid his asthma status. And the same goes for