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Runway Cable  
User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3152 times:

Hulo

i was wondering what this odd looking wire is going across the runway. wasn't paying much attention at the time but i think 2 guys in a transit came out and installed it just before i took the jaguar photo. Would i be right in thinking this is for an arrestor hook? or another set of lights? in the 707 shot it seems to be slightly raised. can aircraft roll over the top of it normally with no problems?

http://www.pbase.com/gary2880/image/70168154


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Photo © Frank Grealish - IrishAirPics



Cheers.  santahat 

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3141 times:

Quoting Gary2880 (Thread starter):
Would i be right in thinking this is for an arrestor hook?

That's what it is.


User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3116 times:

Quoting Gary2880 (Thread starter):

Here at STL, we have a total of three of them. One on each end of 12R/30L and one on the approach end of runwat 6. They can be controlled from the tower and are designed that aircraft can run over them without affecting directional control.

Here are some pics of a catch sequence.


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Photo © Bevin Shively
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Photo © Bevin Shively



User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3098 times:

Interesting photos. I wasnt aware of any landing problems while i was there. Would they just have put it down because there was an ex on as a just incase?

User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

Some military bases used to have arrestor cables attached to heavy studded anchor chain just lying alongside the runway, laid in the direction you are traveling. When you engaged and pulled the cable taut it would start dragging the chain, link by link, first two then four then six and so on. This stuff weighs about a hundred pounds per link so it was a reasonably effective arrestor - for a low tech solution.

Problem was if you engaged going in the other direction. You instantly started pulling the entire lenth of chain at once, maybe fifty tons of it. At least one airplane had its entire tail torn off in this way.

First time I ever saw one (I think it was at McCoy AFB) we weren't sure we could get the smallish nosewheel of our T-42A over it, but it was no problem.

In the picture you can see the rings on the cable to hold it off the ground so the hook can catch it.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

I found this on the web:

Arrestor gear is found at nearly all military aerodromes. It usually consists of a cable laid across the runway about 1500/2000 feet in from each end. When fully rigged, the cable is held off the runway a few inches by rubber doughnuts, to allow the aircraft hook to pick it up, but these can be removed so that the cable lays flat (ie not in-use). Alternatively, the cable can be removed relatively quickly for aircaft that are not cleared to "trample" it.

The cable is connected to rotary hydraulic equipment that provides the retarding force when an aircraft engages the system (RHAG). Other systems use a heavy chain to provided the retardation (CHAG). Nearly all fast-jet (fighter type) aircaft have a hook for engaging these systems, even if they are not normally carrier-based. The aircraft would lower the hook and engage the cable in the event of an aborted take-off or for a landing with a failure of brakes/hydraulics/flaps/slats/wingsweep/engine or indeed anything that increases the landing speed or reduces the stopping power. I believe it would normally be the departure end cable that is engaged, after the ac has landed and rollied down most of the runway. The systems are not like aircraft carrier cables that are engaged at landing speed immediately after touchdown. Therefore, the arrestor hook on land-based aircraft is not as beefy as that on carrier-based jets.


User currently offlineGrandTheftAero From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 254 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 2):
Here are some pics of a catch sequence.

Tailhook on an F-15? I never realized they had one. Is this just for emergencies? And are all fighters equipped with tailhooks?


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3033 times:
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Quoting GrandTheftAero (Reply 6):
And are all fighters equipped with tailhooks?

I believe so, I know all US fighters have them.... I'm pretty sure the U-2s have them as well.



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User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3026 times:

This is one of my photos showing (just) a Tornado F3 with its hook down, while on a break for landing.

http://www.pbase.com/gary2880/image/52389567

actual runway was behind a hill so i couldn't see the outcome. was also news to me at the time to find out Tornados had a hook.


User currently offlineF4wso From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

Most civilian airfields with a joint-use ANG fighter squadron have a cable that is recessed into the runway. It is raised from the tower when needed. That is the BAK-14. The other common type, the BAK-12 was not recessed. The cable location is identified by the yellow circle runway signage.

The departure end cable is raised for fighter departures incase of an abort. The approach end is only raised when requested. Typically reasons to take the approach end barrier are hydraulic failure which may affect steering and braking. Another reason is for an icy runway.

The rollout on land based systems is normally over 1,000 ft contrasted to the carrier systems which I am guessing is only a couple of hundred feet.

An issue with barrier systems is the hook skipping over the cable. The runway at Ft Wayne, Indiana, had a issue with this when I was there. In the dozen years I was in the back of the F-4, I sat through as many engagements and a few skips.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA



Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2112 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Quoting F4wso (Reply 9):
The rollout on land based systems is normally over 1,000 ft contrasted to the carrier systems which I am guessing is only a couple of hundred feet.

The entire landing area is only a couple of hundred feet, the actual 'rollout' distance from trap to stop is considerably less.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineWingnut135 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 2):
Here are some pics of a catch sequence.

HEY!! I can see that tail out my window!!

We've had several take the barrier for different reasons, brake/hydraulic failures, anti-skid failures. Here at Shady J there are two cables, one at each end, and they are set up like the one in the pic above. If the pilot has a problem after wheels down he can hit a switch and lower the hook.

We also use the hook to anchor it down when we need to do a burn run. There are some pretty hefty links laid into the ramp that we attach an adapter to and then to the hook. Ease into the throttle to take out the slack, then full AB. It'll rattle the fillings out of your teeth. Don't have the pic with me but I'll get it posted later.

Wingnut



A good friend will get you out of jail. A real friend will be there with you saying, "Damn that was fun!"
User currently offlineWingnut135 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

Here is a night pic of a full burn run. Not the best quality, but it gets the point across. The hook can be used for fun too. Enjoy.

Wingnut

Big version: Width: 1536 Height: 1024 File size: 463kb



A good friend will get you out of jail. A real friend will be there with you saying, "Damn that was fun!"
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5705 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2721 times:
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Neat shot Wingnut!

An impressive sequence of a RAAF F-111 using the arrestor cable system at RAAF Amberley back in July.. Oh and ONLY the arrestor cable

http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2006/Jul/20060720.cfm

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Quoting Wingnut135 (Reply 12):

Not sure how much you would have to pay me to be the person under that F15. Something goes wrong with the hook and your turned into christmas dinner.  flamed 


User currently offlineWingnut135 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2635 times:

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 14):
Not sure how much you would have to pay me to be the person under that F15

I don't think I get paid enough for it. Especially for stuff like this one as well. I was told that if the plane lurched in any way, make yourself as flat as possible. Just make sure you're not in front of the gear or in the path of the hook.

Wingnut

Big version: Width: 800 Height: 600 File size: 273kb



A good friend will get you out of jail. A real friend will be there with you saying, "Damn that was fun!"
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Quoting Wingnut135 (Reply 12):
Here is a night pic of a full burn run. Not the best quality, but it gets the point across. The hook can be used for fun too. Enjoy.



Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 14):
Not sure how much you would have to pay me to be the person under that F15.

Looks like a cellphone pic to me  Wink That's all I have from the Hush House, the AF isn't too fond of cameras so I have to stick to the cellphone. Pretty neat being in there though, feels like your hair is about to singe off.


As SlamClick was saying, there's the arresting gear chains- they're unidirectional, and are usually found at the ends of the runway. The chains are massive, they're pretty much anchor chains. At Navy fields, there's the E-28 gear, which stops you a little more firmly than the AF's BAK-12 system. My ANG base is at a civilian field so it has the recessed BAK-14.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quote:
In the picture you can see the rings on the cable to hold it off the ground so the hook can catch it.

While flying home from San Juan Puerto Rico back in '98 our aircraft taxied over a cable strung across the runway with the rings holding it up of the ground a bit.

I was suprised to see this at a commercial airport.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineNBGskygod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 819 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 7):
I believe so, I know all US fighters have them.... I'm pretty sure the U-2s have them as well

Not all USAF aircraft have A-hooks. The A-10 does not, I can't speak for the U-2.



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2409 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
While flying home from San Juan Puerto Rico back in '98 our aircraft taxied over a cable strung across the runway with the rings holding it up of the ground a bit.

The Puerto Rico ANG has some C-130's there, not like those take the cable though. I'm sure they get a handful of other mil traffic though, especially now that they stole Roosevelt Roads from us.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineF4wso From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

The Puerto Rico ANG used to have F-104s, A-7s, and F-16s. They may have kept the cables in place as an alternate for Roosevelt Roads NAS. I was at TJSJ last March but don't remember if they had any cables still rigged.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA



Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Ahh yes, thanks for reminding me f4wso. I remember seeing a few lines of "PR" tailed A-7D's sitting in AMARC...shortly got fed to the furnace I'm afraid.

Rosey Roads....there's another ghosttown. The waters around Puerto Rico are loaded with old Navy jets, including an A-7E courtesy of my dad.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2328 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
Some military bases used to have arrestor cables attached to heavy studded anchor chain just lying alongside the runway, laid in the direction you are traveling. When you engaged and pulled the cable taut it would start dragging the chain, link by link, first two then four then six and so on. This stuff weighs about a hundred pounds per link so it was a reasonably effective arrestor - for a low tech solution.

Problem was if you engaged going in the other direction. You instantly started pulling the entire lenth of chain at once, maybe fifty tons of it. At least one airplane had its entire tail torn off in this way.

I worked with a guy who was USAF in Thailand during Nam. While he was there working on RF-101's and F-4's, the US started setting up a bombing campaign where the navy would launch from Yankee Station, bomb North Vietnam and then fly over to his base to rearm and refuel. They would then hit the north a second time before going back to the carrier.

Said more then one Navy guy pulled the tails off their airplane landing from hitting those anchor chains the wrong way. Apparently landing on a carrier caused them to aim right for the threshold. The other thing he said was that a lot of them ended up going off the side of the field....just didn't know what the rudder pedals where for after landing.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
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