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Why Is The US In Possession Of The Mig-29?  
User currently offlineB737-112 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 891 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 14465 times:

I was watching a show about Area 51 and they showed a Mig-29 being put through an airshow style flight over the Nevada desert. I'm pretty sure that Russians were not granted permission to fly into Area 51 so it would seem that American pilots are in control of these jets. It seems odd to me, anyone have any idea on why this would occur?

Ryan

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 14450 times:

Quoting B737-112 (Thread starter):
so it would seem that American pilots are in control of these jets



Quoting B737-112 (Thread starter):
anyone have any idea on why this would occur?

Target practice.

May have miss heard but i believe those pilots (and pilots of aggressor aircraft?) are trained to fight and fly the same way, or as close as they can, to russian/foreign pilots.

How they get hold of said aircraft in the first place i don't know?

mmmmmmmmm F-18 painted in aggressor colours   

oooooh my my my.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images



edit for picture.

[Edited 2006-12-11 11:10:24]

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 14439 times:

The USAF has gotten hold of many Mig fighters. They have had the Mig-15/17/19/21/23/and 29, along with many Su fighters.

They pick them up at Saturday afternoon garage sales and flea markets.


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14407 times:

German Air Force sold some MiG-23 and Su-22 to the USAF after they got them from the former East-German air force. AFAIK the USAF MiG-29 originate from Moldavia.

User currently offlineCTR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14406 times:

Why is Ford in possision of Hondas?

Why is Toyota in possesion of BMWs?

Same reason for the the US to own a Mig-29.

Know your competition!

Have fun,

CTR



Aircraft design is just one big compromise,,,
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14390 times:

I remember reading something about them a while back. The US bought ex-Moldovan MiG-29s after the USSR folded its tent. These Migs had the wiring and provisions to deliver nuclear bombs. Consider it preventative maintenance.

User currently offlineSphealey From United States of America, joined May 2005, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 14393 times:

The USAF admitted last month what had long been suspected: that it has been keeping a small Soviet air force at Area 51 since about 1970. It was used for both research and aggressor training. I believe the article was in Aviation Leak.

They have not explained where the aircraft came from prior to 1990, and I imagine they won't for at least 50 years.

sPh


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 14363 times:

Quoting Sphealey (Reply 6):
They have not explained where the aircraft came from prior to 1990, and I imagine they won't for at least 50 years.

Probably from deserters, non-aligned states and states whose alignment changed over time (but prior to 1990), ... like Egypt. Nothing too spectacular ... it worked the same on the other side of the curtain.

[Edited 2006-12-11 14:38:32]

User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 4006 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 14309 times:

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 5):
These Migs had the wiring and provisions to deliver nuclear bombs.

That hardly makes them more dangerous. If someone has nukes, I'm sure he'll find a way to drop them from any figher jet in his possession.

Peter



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 14281 times:

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 8):

That hardly makes them more dangerous. If someone has nukes, I'm sure he'll find a way to drop them from any figher jet in his possession.

I thought the situation was what ever nation was going to buy them. The U.S. bought them at a somewhat lower price, which the Moldovans accepted in order to curry favor with us.

And as far as I know, those Fulcrums were dismantled and loaded onto C-5s, and never re-assembled. We had MiG-29s through other sources that were used for dissimilar/aggressor duty, as well as deployment of Luftwaffe Fulcrums.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineAvsfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 250 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 14229 times:

The German Luftwaffe has brought their Mig-29s over to the US plenty of times for dissimilar aircraft training....especially during US run execises. I had the opportunity to control fighters against such Mig-29s while out at Nellis.


"Oh I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth...Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29836 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 14228 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 9):
And as far as I know, those Fulcrums were dismantled and loaded onto C-5s, and never re-assembled.

I believe 1 is now on static display at an intellegence facility.


As far as where the US gets this birds, reportedly a few came from defectors that flew to Israel and south Korea. Some where bought from Egypt and Moldovia.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDlednicer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 547 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14102 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Here is a list of known defections and transfers of foreign aircraft:
http://home.comcast.net/~anneled/Defections.html


User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14055 times:

At least some of the Moldovan MiG-29's were reassembled and flown. One is currently in the restoration shops of the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force being made ready for exhibition. It's engines went to the engine test facility at Tulahoma.

User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13922 times:

Quoting Broke (Reply 13):
Here is a list of known defections and transfers of foreign aircraft:
http://home.comcast.net/~anneled/Def....html

According to that list

Moldova Six MiG-29A, one MiG-29B and fourteen MiG-29C sold to United States.

and Iraq Several MiG-29 captured in damaged condition by USA.


Sounds like the potential for a whole squadron!


User currently onlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2124 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13909 times:

Quoting Sphealey (Reply 6):
The USAF admitted last month what had long been suspected: that it has been keeping a small Soviet air force at Area 51 since about 1970. It was used for both research and aggressor training. I believe the article was in Aviation Leak.

They have not explained where the aircraft came from prior to 1990, and I imagine they won't for at least 50 years.

I heard this many many years, and it's been pretty well known. As stated we had most types of fighters and we've had them for a long time. Hasn't been anything near a secret imo.

I've seen a MiG-29 and MiG-23 at Tyndall AFB on a couple of occassions. They were not in flyable condition but were assembled and looked good from the outside. WPAB Museum has had the MiG 15/17/19/21 and AF Armarment Musuem at Eglin AFB, FL has the 21 as well, those are just the ones I've seen first hand.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1253 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13842 times:

With that, they can keep their AFTTP 3-1 Vol II (Threat Reference Guide and Countertactics) updated, their manual on how to defeat the threat.


Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineThorny From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13796 times:

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 15):
I've seen a MiG-29 and MiG-23 at Tyndall AFB on a couple of occassions.

There are also two Russian fighters on static display at Goodfellow AFB, TX.


User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13781 times:

Current Soviet aircraft that are on display or in restoration at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force are;
On display; MiG-15bis (pilot defected from North Korea), MiG-17, MiG-19, MiG-21F, MiG-23
In restoration; MiG-21 (will replace existing exhibit), MiG-23 (will replace existing exhibit), MiG-25 (out of the Iraqi sand), MiG-29, SU-22


User currently offlineSphealey From United States of America, joined May 2005, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13767 times:

> I heard this many many years, and it's been
> pretty well known.

I agree, but according to the Aviation Week article this was the first time the USAF had officially stated that these aircraft existed.

sPh


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13759 times:

Quoting Sphealey (Reply 19):

I agree, but according to the Aviation Week article this was the first time the USAF had officially stated that these aircraft existed.

Well, some of them (MiG-15, etc...) had been acknowledge for a long time.

Now the question is: when will we see a Flanker in USAF inventory?  Wink



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently onlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2124 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13737 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 20):
Now the question is: when will we see a Flanker in USAF inventory?

When we take over the world!

j/k  Smile



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3394 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13721 times:

Anyone know what aircraft Russia (USSR) managed to get from the west?


Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineAeroweanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1610 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13708 times:
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My first clue that there were more MiGs in the US than officially admitted came during a visit to the USAF Museum in the early 1970s. They had the North Korean defector's MiG-15 on display. Next to it, there were was a display of a MiG-15 ejection seat. It took me a minute to realize that the MiG-15 on display had an ejection seat in it, meaning that the US had its hands on at least one more MiG-15.

During the late 1970s there was at least one newspaper article claiming the existence of the "Red Hat" squadron. In other words, its been an open secret for a long time.


User currently offlineVzlet From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13691 times:

Quoting Aeroweanie (Reply 23):
its been an open secret for a long time

AWST published an air-to-air shot of a MiG-21 in US markings in the mid- or late-1980s.



"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
25 Post contains links and images Ptrjong : If we limit this to jet fighters, I don't know of many. On May 29th, 1958, a Belgian RF-84F apparently violated East German airspace and it was force
26 N328KF : Four B-29s, pieces of an F-117, and potentially anything in Iranian or North Vietnamese inventory. That could mean F-4s or F-14s. It is alleged by so
27 Checksixx : I've seen all sorts of 'soviet' types flying over the ranges in Nevada while training. Some migs and also hind's. No big deal. -Check
28 Prebennorholm : 6-Sep-76 MiG-25 USSR Defection to Hakodate Japan by Lt. Victor Belenko. Aircraft returned. I remember that one very well. It took veeeery long time to
29 LMP737 : I recently read the Osprey series Iranian F-14 In Action. From what the book said in interviews with Iranian pilots no F-14 ended up in Soviet hands.
30 Post contains links and images 474218 : While the United States may operate a few, captured, bought or borrowed, Russian aircraft it pales in comparison to Russian blatant stealing of the B-
31 RayPettit : An F-86 was captured around 1951 and taken to the Sukhoi Design Bureau. At least one other was captured in Korea and reportedly taken to Russia too.
32 MCIGuy : Yeah, I'll never understand why we didn't pound the bejesus out of that wreckage in Bosnia.
33 N328KF : Human shields. While the technology loss was lamentable, the fact is that we have moved far beyond that point.
34 Ex52tech : There was a book written about Viktor Belenko, his life in the Soviet Union, his decision to defect, and his impressions of life in the U.S. Pretty g
35 MigFan : There are two supposedly serving in Area 51. Strong sources on that one. One aircraft flies, the other is in cold storage. /M
36 474218 : The book was called "Mig Pilot" it is great read.
37 Ex52tech : Oops..... I did forget to add the title.
38 Migfan : Yes it was...
39 Post contains links Dispatchguy : I just discovered this page, it prints out to about 50 pages of analysis from someone (I assume) that is/was in the Finnish Air Force, and it is a VER
40 Eniranjanrao : There were a lot of Mig 29 left over from East Germany which were transfered to US, any way Pakistan has given a F-16 and a lot of western equipment t
41 Post contains links LovesCoffee : As far as I know, the FAA lists 5 privately owned MiG-29s and 2 Su-27 in the US. Not sure about the military inventory/possession. I even remember som
42 checksixx : Oh my good Lord! Someone really had to revive a 8 year old thread??? And if you're going to simply repeat what your Wikipedia search revealed, at leas
43 ThePointblank : Don't forget getting our hands on Soviet aircraft greatly aided the development of NCTR (Non Cooperative Target Recognition). With the publicly availa
44 Post contains links j.mo : I work with a guy who helped maintain the Migs. He said this book has it down pretty good; http://www.amazon.com/Red-Eagles-Ame...cas-General-Aviation
45 RetiredWeasel : Just about every USAF Fighter/attack pilot and probably most Naval Aviators that flew in the 80's and 90's were at some point introduced to 'Constant
46 mmo : Did my first Red Flag in late 78 and we had a a Mig-21 trying to get us, We had been briefed about the threats in the mission pre-brief. Even then th
47 Beatyair : They also have an Su-27. Real aerodynamic aircraft, hopefully they can learn something. Rather then the A-35 Flying Brick.
48 Post contains images mandala499 : Indonesia sold its MiG-21s and US after the alleged coup attempt by the communists brought an end to our ties with the Soviet Union. The MiG-19s were
49 L-188 : Back a couple of years ago I was looking up Russian videos to watch for a language class I was taking (you might remember the thread where I asked fo
50 bhill : OPFOR...what better way to learn tactics and how to beat them then in the iron you may be fighting against...and with the current regime in Russia...h
51 Acheron : I think you have some 90's mixed up in your Russia. That was true...15-20 years ago, not today.
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