Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
BAE In More Corruption Probes  
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1542 times:

Seems the Eurofighter issue wasnt enough, the British Government have confirmed that BAE is facing probes into corruption issues surrounding deals in six countries - South Africa, Tanzania, Romania, Chile, Czech Republic and Qatar.

The Serious Fraud Office is looking into these claims.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/6339625.stm

8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

There is a fine line between what is percieved as corruption and an inducement. Corruption is paying someone to not do something they should otherwise do. An inducement is paying someone to do something that they should do. An inducement is not illegal.

In many of the overseas markets an inducement is they normal way of life. Just because its not the way in the UK, it does not make it wrong. If British companies did not pay what is considered here 'a bit on the side' there would not be so many sales made and if British companies didn't pay inducements, foreign companies would.


User currently offlineDeskflier From Sweden, joined Jan 2007, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1463 times:

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 1):
An inducement is paying someone to do something that they should do.

So, if that someone is competent he/she is going to take that action anyway, right?

Let´s face it, no weapons deal has ever been closed without the involvement of bribes/inducements/commissions/counter-buys. And like Saintsman states:

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 1):
In many of the overseas markets an inducement is they normal way of life.



How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1457 times:

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 2):
Let´s face it, no weapons deal has ever been closed without the involvement of bribes/inducements/commissions/counter-buys.

So it's OK? Why isn't the KC-767 flying in USAF colors right now? I sense a bit of a double standard here....



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineDeskflier From Sweden, joined Jan 2007, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1431 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):
So it's OK?

No, but neither is killing Your fellow neighbour. It´s just a fact of life.



How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1425 times:

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 4):
It´s just a fact of life.

So we should stop pretending and let companies pay "commissions" or bribes? Are you saying the anti-bribery laws already on the books in the EU and elsewhere are just a "feel good" exercise and should be ignored when the opportunity to sell a few dozen fighter jets arises? Once on this slippery slope, where does it end?

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 4):
o, but neither is killing Your fellow neighbour

Hijack alert. So it's Cain's fault for killing Abel? Wink
Why bother with the laws in the first place? Frankly, if U.S. companies are distorting the market by paying bribes, I would cheer prosecution efforts to stop this because of the distortion on the market place: the best product won't ever win.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1423 times:

I think the main issue here is not one of 'everyone does it' or even 'its normal in these sort of countries', but rather 'its illegal in the home country of the company'.

The reason why the KC-767 deal is different is because both parties were in the US, and it involved US taxpayers money. The BAE case is interesting because the laws under which they are being investigated do not apply to cases pre 2002 or so, and the events under investigation predate that. The investigations are to discover whether there are any infactions that can be persued.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1416 times:

As edifying as this discussion is, can I bring it back on topic? According to article cited by the thread starter, some are not willing to take "no" for an answer WRT the SFO dropping the Al Yamamah corruption probe, even though it clearly is outside the statute of limitations....

Quote:
The Liberal Democrats have called for a National Audit Office report into the Al Yamamah arms deal to be made public.
"The abandonment of this (SFO) investigation has undermined Parliament, the rule of law and Britain's reputation for implementing anti-bribery legislation," their deputy leader Vince Cable said.
Mr O'Brien's remarks came a day after the Attorney General's Office said it was launching an external review of how the SFO investigated and prosecuted fraud cases.

So is the investigation into allegations of BAE-Saudi corruption dead and is all this just political "noise"?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7):
So is the investigation into allegations of BAE-Saudi corruption dead and is all this just political "noise"?

No, they were looking for infractions that may be under statute, and the investigation was wound up before that could be ascertained.

Thats why theres noise here, BAE isnt cleared of this, it was a political decision.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic BAE In More Corruption Probes
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
2 More Turkish F-4s In Midair Collision posted Wed Mar 3 2004 01:03:10 by Spacepope
How Come No BAE Lightning In Magazine (UK) posted Fri Nov 8 2002 07:58:03 by Trent_800
BAE In More Corruption Probes posted Wed Feb 7 2007 17:04:39 by RichardPrice
Polaf In Malta posted Tue Feb 6 2007 06:02:30 by Cancidas
Time To Split Off The First "A" In Nasa? posted Fri Feb 2 2007 21:46:42 by N328KF
Airborne Laser To Test-fire In Flight posted Mon Jan 29 2007 22:44:44 by JakeOrion
Question About F-18 Shot Down In Iraq posted Mon Jan 22 2007 02:28:39 by ZBBYLW
F16's In The Navy? posted Mon Jan 15 2007 20:03:34 by Blackbird1331
The RAF In The South Atlantic - Great Pics posted Sun Jan 14 2007 20:30:33 by GDB
Red Arrows In Mid - Air Collision posted Fri Jan 12 2007 17:31:12 by EZYAirbus

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format