Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 55 Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4518 times:
It appears that Tony BLiar and his fellow cronies are trying to get rid of the world famous Royal Airforce Aerobatic Team, The Red Arrows by withdrawing their funding.
The Red's are one of the best teams in the world and loosing them would be another blow to our country's aviation heritage. They represent us all over the place every year, and are one of the greatest recruitment sources for the RAF.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
I've seen the Red Arrows perform abroad a few times. Even though other display teams perform some equally spectacular manoeuvres, the Red Arrows draw the biggest cheers, every time. It would be a different matter if nobody outside the UK had heard of them.
Would, but there was a requirement that the signer had to be British.
Quoting David L (Reply 3): though other display teams perform some equally spectacular manoeuvres, the Red Arrows draw the biggest cheers
My sister once saw a display by the Arrows, and she said afterwards that through the entire show she felt safe in a way that is not the norm when aerobatic teams show their stuff.
How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
Boeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4280 times:
Getting rid of the red Arrows...wow. And I though the lawmakers in the US could do some stupid stuff. I've never had an opportunity to see them live. What a pitiful decision.
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9242 posts, RR: 42 Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4238 times:
Quoting Deskflier (Reply 4): she said afterwards that through the entire show she felt safe in a way that is not the norm when aerobatic teams show their stuff.
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4236 times:
Quoting Leezyjet (Thread starter): It appears that Tony BLiar and his fellow cronies are trying to get rid of the world famous Royal Airforce Aerobatic Team, The Red Arrows by withdrawing their funding.
O.K. folks, let's slow down just a moment. I didn't see a thing mentioning the original document, news media release or anything else that points to a source claiming the British government is about to disband the Red Arrows. So let's uncover the source and go from there. Personally, I can't believe the British would be so naive as to disband what has become one of the premier military aerobatic teams in the world. Given the longevity of the team, it must be darn good or it wouldn't have remained this long. And let's face it, the annual savings wouldn't be that great.
Deskflier From Sweden, joined Jan 2007, 537 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4209 times:
Quoting David L (Reply 6): Quoting Deskflier (Reply 4):
she said afterwards that through the entire show she felt safe in a way that is not the norm when aerobatic teams show their stuff.
Hmm... there are two ways of looking at that.
No there really isn´t. A team that made a less spectacular show to achieve greater public safety wouldn´t stay long in the airshow game. But some teams (forgive me for singling out one of too many), Frecce Tricolori in the early to mid-nineties comes to mind, just makes the audience expect an accident. Then we have teams like the Red Arrows who gives the audience a positive memory for life and not even the airshow safety officer worries about any accidents during their performance.
Anyway, getting rid of the Red Arrows would be like if Tony Blair would sack all his spin doctors, both are crucial to public image.
How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12735 posts, RR: 79 Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4159 times:
Here we go again.....
This has come up almost every year I can remember.
Worries about the future of this team also, whether the thread starter likes it or no, well predate the current government.
In fact, the only time it did really look as if it really might happen was in the early 1990's, when John Major was PM.
However, Leezyjet is right about the positive recruiting tool it is, that will weigh very heavily on any decision.
Reducing MoD funding for more commercial sponsors, (which I suspect is the truth behind this), why not?
Could it happen, of course, is it likely? No.
Interesting conversation with a friend recently who works at the Ministry Of Defence (involved in the procurement of kit for Special Forces, 'money is no object now').
We both agreed that in our respective employments, (me at BA), the press are fundamentally incapable of accurate reporting, forever seeking scandal and when not successful, jazzing up stories to make up for it.
He pointed out, that unreported in all the MoD 'waste' stories-notoriously the expensive office chairs one, was that in 1997, the MoD had 7 major buildings in Central London, the World's most expensive city.
Now, 2 soon to be one.
The press forgot to mention that the expensive re-furb of the main building in Whitehall, that they derided, was not only to accomodate remaining staff (after many job cuts) from the former buildings-sold at expectedly high prices, into Main Building, as well as needed upgrades such as secure computers, bomb blast protection etc.
Oh well, if you're going to be sensible about it ... I did kind of jump straight in. It wasn't until last night I started thinking along the lines of...
Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 7): O.K. folks, let's slow down just a moment.
Quoting GDB (Reply 9): Could it happen, of course, is it likely? No.
And, before anyone asks: no, I haven't fallen for any Nigerian e-mail scams.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12735 posts, RR: 79 Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4098 times:
But I don't think that not registering, in some form or other, the wide support for the team does any harm anyway.
No doubt someone at the MoD has done some kind of cost/benefit analysis.
777 From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 499 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3956 times:
We had some months ago a similar story when an old, stupid and communist senator here in Italy stated a similar thing about our beloved Frecce Tricolori saying that "they are noisy and polluting".
The reaction from the public opinion was strong enough to shut up this idiot in few days!
Ferrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3789 times:
I just started a thread on saving the "Reds" and had it cut by a mediator probably because this one already exists, ...so suggest Englishmen keep replying to this thread to get more votes in for them. There are 41,000 signatures on that petition now but in the last two days it looks like it might be starting to flat line.
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9242 posts, RR: 42 Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3773 times:
Quoting 777 (Reply 12): an old, stupid and communist senator here in Italy stated a similar thing about our beloved Frecce Tricolori saying that "they are noisy and polluting".
Not to mention the fire risk from dropping those flares . I saw them at Payerne a couple of years ago but I was buying lunch during their display so I didn't manage to get any photos of their "flare" routine - pretty spectaclar.
Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 13): suggest Englishmen keep replying to this thread to get more votes in for them
Ferrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3683 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 9): This has come up almost every year I can remember.
Worries about the future of this team also, whether the thread starter likes it or no, well predate the current government.
In fact, the only time it did really look as if it really might happen was in the early 1990's, when John Major was PM.
However, Leezyjet is right about the positive recruiting tool it is, that will weigh very heavily on any decision.
Reducing MoD funding for more commercial sponsors, (which I suspect is the truth behind this), why not?
Could it happen, of course, is it likely? No.
Don't be too sure there must be piles of taxpayers money disappearing in deep holes in Iraq and Afghanistan in recent years and that could effect this issue.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12735 posts, RR: 79 Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3634 times:
How is Blair 'out of his mind?'
Has it been announced the team will be axed?
Has it even been a news story, across the TV and print media, that it is likely-which it would be in the UK?
Has this cropped up it seems every year since the early 1990's?
No, no and yes.
I know they do seek more commercial sponsorship, have done for years.
Did the notorious Daily Telegraph-notorious for bad defence reporting that is, run this?
Sure the MoD are finding ways to shave non front line spending-rightly-my fist post on this thread outlined one major way (totally misreported naturally), this is happening.
I actually know several people at the MoD, including in areas of budgetting. This is news to them.
By all means sign the petition, it won't do any harm, me, I try to get a bit of perspective before ranting/blaming this person or that.
Ferrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3628 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 18): By all means sign the petition, it won't do any harm, me, I try to get a bit of perspective before ranting/blaming this person or that.
The whole point is to let the government know it is a bad idea before anyone in there starts getting carried away with it.
25 GDB: Very nice pics. On a side note, I was pleased that 3 years ago, despsite perhaps Treasury pressure and no doubt hard lobbying, the new generation of H
26 Ferrypilot: Below is the astonishing list of countries that "The Red Arrows" have displayed in and the numbers represent the number of occasions. Austria . . . .
27 Ferrypilot: The petition to save The Red Arrows has so far received just over 50,000 signatures.
28 Ferrypilot: An astonishing number of those countries listed above and where The Red Arrows have displayed, have bought British Aerospace Hawks for their own Air F
31 GDB: If only more post war UK military aircraft had sold so well... Hawk however, was designed and built without no major changes requested by the Air Staf
32 Rlwynn: I have seen the Red Arrows twice and I guess they would be more impressive if I had not seen the Blue Angels and the T-birds before. To me there is ju
33 ZBBYLW: To disagree, the Snowbirds are one of the best formation flying teams out there. The Tutor looks amazing in formation (with the strait wing). They fl
34 Rlwynn: You make some great points and I agree on many things. Argument well made.
35 Ferrypilot: In July 1978 when I was 22 years old. …Two wealthy men, both of whom I happened to be teaching to fly, asked me to fly them from Leeds to Biggin Hil
36 StealthZ: Hey, Ferrypilot, the result would have fitted in this thread, Carlos Reutemann in a "RED" Ferrari won with Niki Lauda and John Watson in "RED" Brabha
37 Ferrypilot: ...Hmm, interesting now you have got me to thinking that those drivers were probably closer than anybody else to the "Reds" ...Perhaps when Niki Laud
38 777: Yes, in the same way the Frecce Tricolori helped in the past the sales of the MB-339 and, in the future, those ones related to the new M-346... View
39 J_Hallgren: I'm pretty sure it them that performed at Dulles in 1974(?) when they had that big travel expo there, which was kinda like a World's Fair, as it was H
40 GDB: Great story Ferrypilot, I myself only saw the Red's once on Gnats, at the Air Tattoo in 1979, their last season on the type. 20 years later though, by
41 Ferrypilot: Thanks for your kind comment on my story GDB, ...and quoting you again below from an archived thread. ...I really wish I had seen the Queens Golden J
43 Ferrypilot: These guys are clearly intent on producing synchronised precision in their every single action, as evidenced by this photo of the gear in transit on b
44 Ferrypilot: Good news for The Red Arrows. ----- Original Message ----- From: 10 Downing Street To: e-petition signatories Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:07 AM
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