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Save The Red Arrows  
User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

It appears that Tony BLiar and his fellow cronies are trying to get rid of the world famous Royal Airforce Aerobatic Team, The Red Arrows by withdrawing their funding.

click here to sign the petition to save them :-

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/

The Red's are one of the best teams in the world and loosing them would be another blow to our country's aviation heritage. They represent us all over the place every year, and are one of the greatest recruitment sources for the RAF.


"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeskflier From Sweden, joined Jan 2007, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

No, NO, NOOOOO, please let me see at least one of their shows first.(desperation)

Why not get rid of the Historic Flight as well, and every other unit of the RAF.(sarcasm)

Seems like the Old Labour is back, cutting defence budgets.(sincerity)



How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5159 times:

That would be very unfortunate. That team is a national icon. Loosing them would be a huge blow to RAF pride and tradition.


No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5121 times:

Quoting Leezyjet (Thread starter):
click here to sign the petition to save them

Done.

I've seen the Red Arrows perform abroad a few times. Even though other display teams perform some equally spectacular manoeuvres, the Red Arrows draw the biggest cheers, every time. It would be a different matter if nobody outside the UK had heard of them.


User currently offlineDeskflier From Sweden, joined Jan 2007, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5043 times:

Quoting Leezyjet (Thread starter):
click here to sign the petition to save them

Would, but there was a requirement that the signer had to be British.

Quoting David L (Reply 3):
though other display teams perform some equally spectacular manoeuvres, the Red Arrows draw the biggest cheers

My sister once saw a display by the Arrows, and she said afterwards that through the entire show she felt safe in a way that is not the norm when aerobatic teams show their stuff.



How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5008 times:

Getting rid of the red Arrows...wow. And I though the lawmakers in the US could do some stupid stuff. I've never had an opportunity to see them live. What a pitiful decision.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4966 times:

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 4):
she said afterwards that through the entire show she felt safe in a way that is not the norm when aerobatic teams show their stuff.

Hmm... there are two ways of looking at that.  Smile


User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4964 times:

Quoting Leezyjet (Thread starter):
It appears that Tony BLiar and his fellow cronies are trying to get rid of the world famous Royal Airforce Aerobatic Team, The Red Arrows by withdrawing their funding.

O.K. folks, let's slow down just a moment. I didn't see a thing mentioning the original document, news media release or anything else that points to a source claiming the British government is about to disband the Red Arrows. So let's uncover the source and go from there. Personally, I can't believe the British would be so naive as to disband what has become one of the premier military aerobatic teams in the world. Given the longevity of the team, it must be darn good or it wouldn't have remained this long. And let's face it, the annual savings wouldn't be that great.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineDeskflier From Sweden, joined Jan 2007, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4937 times:

Quoting David L (Reply 6):
Quoting Deskflier (Reply 4):
she said afterwards that through the entire show she felt safe in a way that is not the norm when aerobatic teams show their stuff.

Hmm... there are two ways of looking at that.

No there really isn´t. A team that made a less spectacular show to achieve greater public safety wouldn´t stay long in the airshow game. But some teams (forgive me for singling out one of too many), Frecce Tricolori in the early to mid-nineties comes to mind, just makes the audience expect an accident. Then we have teams like the Red Arrows who gives the audience a positive memory for life and not even the airshow safety officer worries about any accidents during their performance.

Anyway, getting rid of the Red Arrows would be like if Tony Blair would sack all his spin doctors, both are crucial to public image.



How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13253 posts, RR: 77
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4887 times:

Here we go again.....
This has come up almost every year I can remember.
Worries about the future of this team also, whether the thread starter likes it or no, well predate the current government.
In fact, the only time it did really look as if it really might happen was in the early 1990's, when John Major was PM.
However, Leezyjet is right about the positive recruiting tool it is, that will weigh very heavily on any decision.
Reducing MoD funding for more commercial sponsors, (which I suspect is the truth behind this), why not?

Could it happen, of course, is it likely? No.

Interesting conversation with a friend recently who works at the Ministry Of Defence (involved in the procurement of kit for Special Forces, 'money is no object now').
We both agreed that in our respective employments, (me at BA), the press are fundamentally incapable of accurate reporting, forever seeking scandal and when not successful, jazzing up stories to make up for it.

He pointed out, that unreported in all the MoD 'waste' stories-notoriously the expensive office chairs one, was that in 1997, the MoD had 7 major buildings in Central London, the World's most expensive city.
Now, 2 soon to be one.
The press forgot to mention that the expensive re-furb of the main building in Whitehall, that they derided, was not only to accomodate remaining staff (after many job cuts) from the former buildings-sold at expectedly high prices, into Main Building, as well as needed upgrades such as secure computers, bomb blast protection etc.


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4862 times:

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 7):



Quoting GDB (Reply 9):

Oh well, if you're going to be sensible about it  Smile ... I did kind of jump straight in. It wasn't until last night I started thinking along the lines of...

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 7):
O.K. folks, let's slow down just a moment.



Quoting GDB (Reply 9):
Could it happen, of course, is it likely? No.

And, before anyone asks: no, I haven't fallen for any Nigerian e-mail scams.  biggrin 


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13253 posts, RR: 77
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4826 times:

But I don't think that not registering, in some form or other, the wide support for the team does any harm anyway.
No doubt someone at the MoD has done some kind of cost/benefit analysis.


User currently offline777 From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4684 times:

We had some months ago a similar story when an old, stupid and communist senator here in Italy stated a similar thing about our beloved Frecce Tricolori saying that "they are noisy and polluting".

The reaction from the public opinion was strong enough to shut up this idiot in few days!


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

I just started a thread on saving the "Reds" and had it cut by a mediator probably because this one already exists, ...so suggest Englishmen keep replying to this thread to get more votes in for them. There are 41,000 signatures on that petition now but in the last two days it looks like it might be starting to flat line.

It only takes about one minute to vote at ... http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/

If you don't live in the U.K. but have a passport click on expatriate.


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4501 times:

Quoting 777 (Reply 12):
an old, stupid and communist senator here in Italy stated a similar thing about our beloved Frecce Tricolori saying that "they are noisy and polluting".

Not to mention the fire risk from dropping those flares  Smile. I saw them at Payerne a couple of years ago but I was buying lunch during their display so I didn't manage to get any photos of their "flare" routine - pretty spectaclar.

Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 13):
suggest Englishmen keep replying to this thread to get more votes in for them

Won't my vote count?  Smile


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Quoting David L (Reply 14):
Won't my vote count?

I apologise that was a slip of the tongue, or so to speak. ...My wife is Welsh and she would haul me over the coals for it too.


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 9):
This has come up almost every year I can remember.
Worries about the future of this team also, whether the thread starter likes it or no, well predate the current government.
In fact, the only time it did really look as if it really might happen was in the early 1990's, when John Major was PM.
However, Leezyjet is right about the positive recruiting tool it is, that will weigh very heavily on any decision.
Reducing MoD funding for more commercial sponsors, (which I suspect is the truth behind this), why not?

Could it happen, of course, is it likely? No.

Don't be too sure there must be piles of taxpayers money disappearing in deep holes in Iraq and Afghanistan in recent years and that could effect this issue.

Vote at :- http.//petition.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/


User currently offlineKmh1956 From Bermuda, joined Jun 2005, 3324 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4369 times:

It's times like this that I'm glad that Bermuda is still a British Colony.
I've signed. Is Blair out of his mind?



'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13253 posts, RR: 77
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4362 times:

How is Blair 'out of his mind?'
Has it been announced the team will be axed?
Has it even been a news story, across the TV and print media, that it is likely-which it would be in the UK?
Has this cropped up it seems every year since the early 1990's?
No, no and yes.

I know they do seek more commercial sponsorship, have done for years.

Did the notorious Daily Telegraph-notorious for bad defence reporting that is, run this?

Sure the MoD are finding ways to shave non front line spending-rightly-my fist post on this thread outlined one major way (totally misreported naturally), this is happening.
I actually know several people at the MoD, including in areas of budgetting. This is news to them.

By all means sign the petition, it won't do any harm, me, I try to get a bit of perspective before ranting/blaming this person or that.


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
By all means sign the petition, it won't do any harm, me, I try to get a bit of perspective before ranting/blaming this person or that.

The whole point is to let the government know it is a bad idea before anyone in there starts getting carried away with it.


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4348 times:

The Red Arrows speak to the World and what they say is, ..."Great Britain still builds GREAT PLANES"

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jim Groom



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Butcher - UK Airshow Review


And here is an example of the very positve side effect.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Si Jones



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew Morrell


The U.S. Navy uses a Boeing built version of the Hawk to train their carrier pilots.

[Edited 2007-03-03 00:00:41]

User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

An Australian Air Force 76 Squadron ..."British Aerospace Hawk"

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alex McCreath


I am thinking the Australians have seen the Red Arrows.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Piotr Biskupski



User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5744 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4272 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 21):
I am thinking the Australians have seen the Red Arrows.

Sure have....

http://www.pbase.com/chrisg/image/31971241.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/chrisg/image/31971743.jpg

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4265 times:

That photo with the coat hangar in is pretty cool!

User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

A Canadian Air Force ..."British Aerospace Hawk"

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Geri Grof


I'm thinking Canada has seen ..."The Red Arrows"

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dimitris - AirTeamImages


[Edited 2007-03-05 00:36:46]

25 GDB : Very nice pics. On a side note, I was pleased that 3 years ago, despsite perhaps Treasury pressure and no doubt hard lobbying, the new generation of H
26 Ferrypilot : Below is the astonishing list of countries that "The Red Arrows" have displayed in and the numbers represent the number of occasions. Austria . . . .
27 Ferrypilot : The petition to save The Red Arrows has so far received just over 50,000 signatures.
28 Post contains images Ferrypilot : An astonishing number of those countries listed above and where The Red Arrows have displayed, have bought British Aerospace Hawks for their own Air F
29 Post contains links and images Ferrypilot : View Large View MediumPhoto © Roel reijne Finland Air Force pilots train on Hawks:-
30 Post contains links and images Ferrypilot : View Large View MediumPhoto © Rafael Finter This BAE Hawk below is going to the Indian Air Force:- View Large View MediumPhoto © Ian Meadows
31 GDB : If only more post war UK military aircraft had sold so well... Hawk however, was designed and built without no major changes requested by the Air Staf
32 Rlwynn : I have seen the Red Arrows twice and I guess they would be more impressive if I had not seen the Blue Angels and the T-birds before. To me there is ju
33 ZBBYLW : To disagree, the Snowbirds are one of the best formation flying teams out there. The Tutor looks amazing in formation (with the strait wing). They fl
34 Rlwynn : You make some great points and I agree on many things. Argument well made.
35 Post contains links and images Ferrypilot : In July 1978 when I was 22 years old. …Two wealthy men, both of whom I happened to be teaching to fly, asked me to fly them from Leeds to Biggin Hil
36 StealthZ : Hey, Ferrypilot, the result would have fitted in this thread, Carlos Reutemann in a "RED" Ferrari won with Niki Lauda and John Watson in "RED" Brabha
37 Post contains images Ferrypilot : ...Hmm, interesting now you have got me to thinking that those drivers were probably closer than anybody else to the "Reds" ...Perhaps when Niki Laud
38 Post contains links and images 777 : Yes, in the same way the Frecce Tricolori helped in the past the sales of the MB-339 and, in the future, those ones related to the new M-346... View
39 J_Hallgren : I'm pretty sure it them that performed at Dulles in 1974(?) when they had that big travel expo there, which was kinda like a World's Fair, as it was H
40 Post contains links GDB : Great story Ferrypilot, I myself only saw the Red's once on Gnats, at the Air Tattoo in 1979, their last season on the type. 20 years later though, by
41 Ferrypilot : Thanks for your kind comment on my story GDB, ...and quoting you again below from an archived thread. ...I really wish I had seen the Queens Golden J
42 Post contains links and images Ferrypilot : A sight to make British hearts swell with pride :- View Large View MediumPhoto © Den Pascoe
43 Post contains images Ferrypilot : These guys are clearly intent on producing synchronised precision in their every single action, as evidenced by this photo of the gear in transit on b
44 Post contains images Ferrypilot : Good news for The Red Arrows. ----- Original Message ----- From: 10 Downing Street To: e-petition signatories Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:07 AM
45 Post contains images Chksix : Yeah!
46 GDB : Thanks for saving me the hassle of linking this, from a BBC website report, Ferrypilot.
47 Post contains links and images Ferrypilot : "My pleasure GDB" View Large View MediumPhoto © Michael van der Mee - Touchdown Aviation View Large View MediumPhoto © Steve Dreier
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