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E-2C ID And F-15 Picture Question  
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

Ok everybody...

I was shooting pictures in the afternoon (02/23/2007) about 2 miles west of KORL and I happend to get these two winners that the photo screeners are going to be killing eachother to accept.





NOT!!!!!


One I'm pretty sure is an E-2
http://www.airspaceonline.com/Aircraft/E-2C%20@%20FL%201024X768.jpg
(Feel free to use as a desktop if you can stand the grain)

and the other one is an F-15

Now I obviously cropped the hell out of this shot, but that's due to the nature of the question. Now keep in mind it was Shot with my 300 MM maxed out. The Eagle was moving so fast I'm stunned I didn't hear a boom after it had passed. That being said though..

Now the trail it's leaving was with it from horizon to horizon. The question is: Why does it look more like it's dumping fuel out of the starboard wing then creating a contrail (Chemtrail )?

[Edited 2007-02-25 04:34:55]

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePhatAlbert From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 113 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3085 times:

Well im not no genius but... maybe for practice... or maybe just because they didnt need that fuel... maybe they needed less weight to land at a certain place... thats just my wild guesses to this...


**Isaac**
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

Quoting PhatAlbert (Reply 1):
thats just my wild guesses to this...

That seems to make some sense, but A) Why dump fuel over a populated area? B) Why make yourself so obvious to an entire city?

What I'm concerned about is 85 views, 1 reply, and no one saying I'm delusional for thinking it's something other then a contrail.  scratchchin 


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3029 times:
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Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
What I'm concerned about is 85 views, 1 reply, and no one saying I'm delusional for thinking it's something other then a contrail.

You forget you're not in civ-av!!

I don't think it's contrail because it appears to becoming from the right wing with no symmetrical contrail from the left. The left wing appears to have an external fuel tank. Since they like to fly external fuel tanks symmetically (one on the left and one on the right) it stands to reason there's another tank on the right wing.

Since whatever is venting seems to be coming from about the location on the right wing where a external tank would be I think it safe to assume it's fuel going overboard.

My guess is the F-15 has declared an IFE (InFlight Emergency) for a fuel system problem and is keeping it high to reduce fuel burn until a runway landing at the desired location is assured.

I work on an AFB and IFEs are pretty much a daily occurence and very seldom end up on the front page of the paper.

You didn't happen to see a tanker nearby did you?

edit: For those smarter on the F-15 than I: Is there a fuel vent at the after end of the external tank or its hard point that would help explain Teds Mystery?

ZANL188


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Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Karl Drage



edit: add photos for clarity

[Edited 2007-02-25 16:29:12]

[Edited 2007-02-25 16:32:34]


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User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 3):
You didn't happen to see a tanker nearby did you?

 no  Even if there was a tanker in the area; the eagle would have passed it like it was parked on the ground.


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3004 times:
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Quoting TedTAce (Reply 4):
Even if there was a tanker in the area; the eagle would have passed it like it was parked on the ground.

I was thinking if the F-15 had just hit the tanker he might be full up and venting for that reason.



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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31011 posts, RR: 86
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3002 times:
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Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 5):
I was thinking if the F-15 had just hit the tanker he might be full up and venting for that reason.

The F-15 would have reported her fuel load to the Boom Master either prior to docking or once connected. As such, the tanker would have sent a load below her maximum tankage minus her remaining fuel, so it is unlikely she was "over-filled".


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2998 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Boom Master

Who? I've spent lots of time working with tanker crews and have never heard of this guy. You're thinking of the Boom or Boom Operator.

Aircraft get overfilled and vent after refueling so it's not unlikely, just improbable in my view since Ted reported the venting continued for sometime.



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User currently offlineStudeDave From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2985 times:

From what I can see in the nice photo from the rear- the tanks look a little (but NOT the same as) an F/A-18 drop tank. They do have dump valves on them, and you can just about make it out at the rear of the tank in the picture ZANL188 posted.

As to why- you got me!!! The "dumping 'cuz I got a problem" seems the most resonable, but what's a Navy guy know about the AirForce...



Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
User currently offlineHawaiianHobo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2973 times:

That Eagle is dumping/venting. The F-15 has a dump and vent system tied into each other (which makes for one hell of a troubleshooting nightmare) on the right wing tip. Since you said that it had made the trail from horizon to horizon, I think its actually dumping as venting doesn't happen for very long unless a manifold is cracked. Its carrying 2 bags and I don't see a centerline, probably just eliminating some excess weight before landing. Plenty of 15's dump if they come back earlier than expected...like ZAN said for IFE's and whatnot.

Since he's pretty high up too, the JP8 its dumping won't reach the ground below as it evaporates at altitude within minutes.

Hope this helps!


-J



...
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3474 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
One I'm pretty sure is an E-2

You're only "pretty sure"????? What else could it be???? Still a pretty sight for those who used to drive million+ watt radars around for a living.  spin 



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 10):
What else could it be????

E-2A, E-2B, E-2z I dunno

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 10):
Still a pretty sight for those who used to drive million+ watt radars around for a living.

This remark was kind of humorous... then I got to the smiley  spin , and it's hilarious!!!


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2894 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
The F-15 would have reported her fuel load to the Boom Master either prior to docking or once connected. As such, the tanker would have sent a load below her maximum tankage minus her remaining fuel, so it is unlikely she was "over-filled".

No, receivers don't report how much fuel they have on board (unless they are BINGO), nor does the tanker crew really care how much they have. We pump them to the scheduled offload, or full tanks, which ever comes first. When he gets full tanks, the air refueling system disconnects, and stops the pumps (just like at the gas station when you fill your car with gas and it stops when it is full).

He could have recently refueled, or has a valve stuck open somewhere. Either way, the fuel is coming from the vent system, and he does not know it yet. If he knew about it, he would stop it. Remember, in an F-15, you cannot see behind the wing.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

That was highly likely an F-15 from the 125th FW at JAX....they have several of them at Homestead at any given time for the Alert Det, and they ferry them from one end of the state from the other every so often. If not maybe an Eglin or Tyndall bird far from home.

I don't recall a vent on the droptanks...just your standard drop tanks.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 18 hours ago) and read 2810 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
He could have recently refueled, or has a valve stuck open somewhere. Either way, the fuel is coming from the vent system, and he does not know it yet. If he knew about it, he would stop it. Remember, in an F-15, you cannot see behind the wing.

He probably just tanked with AR pumps on the tanker to make sure his drops got filled inflight so probably hanged on the boom longer than needed to make sure . I'v'e seen F-16's on the boom and you can easily tell when they are full, they vent out from every vent . Plus if it was hot on the ground where he left and sat for awhile the fuel will expand it has to go somewhere (don't know if F-15's have surge tanks like big boeings) and is slowly leaving the acft as the tanks pressurize going up in altitude. Back in the day on KC-135A's and Buffs it was a preflight task to drain the the surge tanks before flight, on a tanker if you got more than 5 gallons with no end in sight it was a write up with and entry in the forms. you had a valve problem in the crossfeed mainfold that was not closing completely.



I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineHawaiianHobo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 13):
I don't recall a vent on the droptanks...just your standard drop tanks.

The vents are located on the aft end of the pylons for F-15 externals.  Smile



...
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 14):
Back in the day on KC-135A's and Buffs it was a preflight task to drain the the surge tanks before flight, on a tanker if you got more than 5 gallons with no end in sight it was a write up with and entry in the forms. you had a valve problem in the crossfeed mainfold that was not closing completely.

I remember that.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

Quoting HawaiianHobo (Reply 15):
The vents are located on the aft end of the pylons for F-15 externals.

Exactly why I don't work in fuel shop  Wink

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineHawaiianHobo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2682 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 17):
Exactly why I don't work in fuel shop

You have no idea how much I wish I didn't...
JP-8 is only cool when its NOT burning your armpits.
 Big grin



...
User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

Quoting HawaiianHobo (Reply 18):
You have no idea how much I wish I didn't...
JP-8 is only cool when its NOT burning your armpits.

Does your wife make you take off your clothes in the garage or back yard before she allows you in the house, I rather have JP-8 in the armpits than Skydrol in the eyes or on your manhood.



I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineHawaiianHobo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2614 times:

Hah, yeah. I used to have to strip down in the garage before coming in, and even after 3 showers STILL smell like fuel.

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 19):
Skydrol in the eyes or on your manhood

Agreed. Though I have had JP-8 in the "nether regions" and it doesn't feel good either. I'm sure with Skydrol, it would just all fall off!
 Wow!



...
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

You know, in the engine shop, we may get a cup or two of jet fuel...otherwise the only thing I'm in danger of is some PET or something silly like that  Wink

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 21):
PET or something silly like that

hey I dont swing that way, but if you are ever working with Skydrol and have to use the head wash your hands first before you go, trust me on this.  hot   hot   hot   hot 



I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineHawaiianHobo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2570 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 21):
the only thing I'm in danger of is some PET or something silly like that

Pet IS dangerous! I almost fell off a C-130 wing after lubing up a tank probe because of PET! To think I almost lost my life to an over-rated tub of Vaseline...

Don't you engine shop guys use some gnarly anti-sieze thats pretty carcinogenic?

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 22):
but if you are ever working with Skydrol and have to use the head wash your hands first before you go, trust me on this

Talk about a burning sensation in your pants...
 Cool  hot 



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