BritJap From Japan, joined Aug 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2 Posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
This is a general thread to share information about these two projects as good info about them seems very hard to come by, but I will share what I know.
I have been meaning to write this for ages but have never got round to it until now. (I hope Keesje likes it).
The reason for my sudden rush to type this is of course the rollout date for the CX which is at last finally upon us (March 6th 2007)...or at least it should have been. The recently formed Japanese Ministry of Defence disclosed at the start of Feb. that imported rivets used in both the CX & PX had failed strength tests and that they were investigating possible effects.
The (unfortunate) effect as recently reported in the newspaper is that the rivets need replacing and rollout has been postponed to an unspecified date. The new rollout date will be judged based on the results of the investigation.
Originally I believe the plan was for the CX to be on static display at the Paris Airshow this year. I wonder is this now feasible?? I really hope it can still make it.
I also have a fairly large article about KHI's investigation into these frames into civilian aircraft. I haven't got round to translating it all yet, but will post the gist of what it says when I do.
For now though here are a bunch of (slightly old) photos of the CX / PX mock-ups that I hope you guys haven't seen before.
AAAhhhhhh...........The 'mouse over acronym' feature on this site is conflicting with the URL for the pictures I cant put them up individually or even link directly to the site.
So use the link below and change the small c (in PXcX) to a big C.
Japanese only BTW.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11909 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Great pictures. BTW, where did they get the flawed rivets from? Can the CX make the Paris Air Show? Possibly, but it really depends on how many revits need to be replaced. If it is only a few thousand, then they should be able to do it. But, if all revits need to be replaced, then no, it cannot be done.
BritJap From Japan, joined Aug 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 4): The C-X looks a lot like a mini-C-17...
Yeah...KHI have clearly taken some design cues from the C-17 but hey, the the C-17 is one hell of a good design....
But I think more significantly it looks like the C-1 which it is designed to replace.
Why try to re-invent the wheel???
Quoting A342 (Reply 5): What type of engine is that on the PX ?
The engine for the PX is an indigenous design being built by IHI called the XF7.
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
The PX looks like the Japanese took the basic P-3 design, swept the wings and replaced turboprops with jets or fan jets. In any case, it looks like it will meet their need for a maritime patrol airplane for some years to come. I wonder if the plane has export potential? P-3 is getting long in the tooth and Boeing's P-8 may not meet the needs of every nation requiring a maritime patrol aircraft.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Quoting BritJap (Thread starter): This is a general thread to share information about these two projects as good info about them seems very hard to come by, but I will share what I know.
Thnx for the info / photo´s!
I´ve done searches on those aircraft for years, but obviously the japanese very well managed to keep the doors closed, until now when they decided to go public (probably has to do with politics / delays).
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12968 posts, RR: 79 Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Thanks from me too, for the info on a significant, but seemingly very under-reported, pair of projects.
Despite being a democratic friendly state, you rarely see much of their post war home designed aircraft.
Partly I think due to the severe export restrictions.
There is a wealth of fascinating stuff to consider.
From their line of jet trainers, culminating in the current T-4, with the first Asian supersonic type, the T-2 trainer and single seat strike version of the 1970's-what I call the 'Jaguar-J', J for Japan! But that's not to knock the aircraft.
The virtually unknown C-1 jet transport, the lovely flying boats-a modernised version now in production for SAR.
(Surely a potential for a great fire fighting aircraft here?)
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Imagine the costs of this project. Or better projects, the two aircraft seem to have limited commonality ($20B?). The Japanese build up a lot of aerospace knowledge. Investing tens of billions only for limited domestic use and no export ambition.
BritJap From Japan, joined Aug 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
I have recently read an interview with one of the chief designers on the CX / PX program. He explained a little further about the problem with the rivets.
They were apparently one batch of many imported from the US.This particular batch had not received a heat treatment designed to increase their strength. Unfortunately if my translation is correct, this sub-standard batch has been mixed with other rivets that were fine.
And yes you guessed it...that means that the precise location of the faulty rivets is now not known!!!
The numbers involved are not too high. Approx. 2% of the total number of rivets. (Though that still equate to around 10,000 rivets) That figure relates to the CX. Lucky the figures for the PX are a lot lower, and they are hoping that there wont be significant effects on this program.
The guy explained that each rivet is having to be checked by way of measuring its electrical resistance which would be changed by the heat treatment. Where a faulty rivet is found it must be carefully drilled out, and a new one installed. This work is being carried out under 24 hour conditions he said.
BritJap From Japan, joined Aug 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
These are some photos taken I believe near the end of last year. The engines are not yet installed but they show the most complete aircraft seen yet including a hint at what they will look like with a full paint scheme.
Now I am really starting look forward to seeing these a/c in the air.
BritJap From Japan, joined Aug 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Some more pictures.......
The XF7 being tested on the C1 flying testbed.
I posted these a while ago but they didn't work, so I had the post deleted and now I am posting the page link.
The page is in Japanese but if you scroll around there are three photos of the C1 FTB with the XF7 attached.
"KHI had planned to stage a dual roll-out ceremony for the new aircraft on 6 March, but is assessing the implications of the production fault. This centres on the use of defective rivets provided by a US supplier for the assembly of centre fuselage sections for the programme's static, fatigue and strength and flight-test aircraft."
"Japan's Kawasaki Heavy Industries is leading the development of the C-X transport, which is to replace the Japan Air Self-Defence Force's current 27 Kawasaki C-1s. The first aircraft had been scheduled to complete final assembly early next month and to make its first flight in mid-year, but this schedule has been delayed.
An air force evaluation of the C-X is due to run between fiscal years 2009 and 2011, with structural and fatigue testing also to conclude at the same time.
The C-X is to share a high level of design and component commonality with the P-X maritime patrol aircraft also being developed by Kawasaki for the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force. The joint projects are being conducted using state funding worth ¥340 billion ($2.83 billion).
The C-X will be powered by General Electric CF6-80C2 turbofan engines and up to 44 transports could be produced to replace the C-1. The transport could also be developed for use as a commercial freighter."
Hope that shed some light into these interesting aircraft.