JamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 11 Posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2174 times:
Does anyone know of any similarities between the recent Airbus accident at JFK, and numerous crashes of the B-52 due to loss of Vertical Stabilizer in turbulent conditions in the 1960's?
Braniff747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1022 times:
Only that AA and the USAF were aware of potential problems before hand.
Differences:
- AA most likely due to pilots over controlling the fin like a fighter pilot
- A B-52 that lost it's fin in bad weather over SW Penna had a nuke on board.
- Some crew members were able to bail out of the B-52's.
Minuteman From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 271 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 934 times:
"From a famous series of photographs taken after severe turbulence sheared off most of the vertical stabilizer. The aircraft had been specially instrumented for air turbulence research after some operational B-52s were lost. The tail was lost after a severe and sustained burst (+5 seconds) of clear air turbulence violently buffeted the aircraft. The Boeing test crew (Pilot - Chuck Fisher & Copilot - Dick Curry) nursed to aircraft to Blytheville AFB, Arkansas and landed safely. Also note the (inert) AGM-28 Hound Dog missiles still attached to the wing pylons. The dotted line shows the normal outline of the vertical stabilizer and rudder."
JamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 908 times:
Thanks for the info, here is what I came accross for the SW Penn flight:
http://salisburypa.com/buzzonefour.html
TomH From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 881 times:
James,
There were not numerous B-52 crashes due to vertical stabilizer losses or any other reason.
JamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 875 times:
Well I know there were more than one, and it was an issue enough for the Air Force to attempt to recreate it with the airplane you see above.
TomH From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 846 times:
James,
If the SW Penn story is to be believed, then it appears there were several B-52 crashes due to loss of vertical stabilizer. It would take more research to validate the story, of course.
The problems of Clear Air Turbulence (CAT) related to the airline industry made headlines in the 1980s. It was not well understood prior to that. It is no surprise that USAF, with its fleet of jet bombers likely encountered CAT and other forms of violent turbulence in the 1950s and 1960s.
There have been statements made recently that horizontal air movement (from B-747 tip votices) may have played a role in the recent AA Airbus crash, but this will not be verified for some time.
JamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 11 Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 845 times:
Tom,
I thought it was interesting too when I heard that "it was near impossible for a stabilizer to fall off" in the media, and then I stumble accross this with the B-52. I had never heard of the problem before and found it only after doing some searches inspired by the aircrafts 50th birthday the other day. Could you refresh my memory about what it was about CAT that made headlines in the 80's?
Also,
Great article about Manchester N.H. on your site. I had the opportunity to fly in and out of there several times last month, wonderful airport and what a view on climb out. Nice people, and beautiful scenery. The scenery is a far cry from what we have here in Texas, but we've got the people.
James
TomH From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 838 times:
James,
A quick look at the SW Penn story above and I can understand why you asked the question. I didn't realize there were several B-52 crashes due to loss of vertical stabilizer as that story implies.
Clear Air Turbulence (CAT) seemed to come to the media's attention in the 1980s, after a series of violent encounters with this mysterious phenomenom. Certainly the US Air Force, with its fleet of jet bombers had experienced it earlier than this.
There is suspicion, as mentioned in the news, that B747-induced turbulence may have been involved in the recent AA Airbus crash, though verification of such theories usually takes a long time. Still, you have an interesting subjet here.
Minuteman From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 271 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 818 times:
The only B-52 I'd heard of that lost its vertical stab was the one above (I seem to remember it being involved in a terrain-following experiment instead of a CAT study, but that's just me).
What is this "SW Penn" article you're referring to?
JamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 815 times:
TomH From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 813 times:
James,
Sorry for the repetitive posts above. I wasn't able to see that my 13:08 entry had been posted due to an employer-imposed security lock.
The Clear Air Turbulence incidents I am talking about were a string of events that tossed passengers and attendants around quite a lot. I don't have specific dates or details, but I think there were a dozen or more of these situations reported in the press. I think there were some broken-bone type injuries on some of these. Seems to me there was some talk about developing radar systems to detect this stuff, but I may be getting confused with storm-related microbursts. Actually, I think we still see these reports on occasion today.
Thanks for the kind comment on my Manchester, NH article. That piece is presently appearing in the Atlantic Flyer, a GA newspaper found at most FBOs in New England. I hope to write a follow-up on that airport's history from 1945-1970 in the coming year.
JamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 11 Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 803 times:
JamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 11 Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 793 times:
I am a little surprised that so many people have read this thread, yet so few know of anything more.
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