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Air National Guard  
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4316 times:

Hey I'm just wondering about flying part time in the guard. Does anybody have any tips or even explain the process for a civilian trained pilot, how long from applying to actually flying? Do civ pilots even have a chance or would knowing some body high up help with being accepted? I know that national guard pilots fly very little but it would seem like a great experience and it would add to to the resume. Sorry for all these questions any input would be appreciated.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2525 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4312 times:

I'm just about to do the same thing... The one thing that's obvious is you must have a 4 year degree. If you don't, then your chances of flying are slim to none.

My question is: What are the main differences between the ANG and the Reserves?


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4299 times:

Also to add, I've heard that it's much harder to get a guard spot than active duty, is this correct?

User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4254 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Thread starter):
Do civ pilots even have a chance or would knowing some body high up help with being accepted?

Of course civilians have a chance - everyone flying for the military was once a civilian. The problem is, some people think that just because they have prior flight experience, it is a "gold ticket" into getting a military flight slot. It's not. It's all about the entire picture. Mental ability. Social ability. Physical fitness. Are you a team player? Etc...

And the question "does knowing someone help" - absolutely. That goes for anything in life.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Thread starter):
I know that national guard pilots fly very little but it would seem like a great experience and it would add to to the resume.

They fly less, but it's really not as little as some believe. And of course, it really all depends on your state and your airframe. Some fly MORE than an active duty pilot.

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 1):
The one thing that's obvious is you must have a 4 year degree. If you don't, then your chances of flying are slim to none.

Slim to none? I suppose that's correct, if "slim to none" means 0% chance!

You need a degree to be an officer.

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 1):
My question is: What are the main differences between the ANG and the Reserves?

As a guard soldier, you serve your state. You can be mobilized if your state is tasked on a mission/deployment. It could be stateside or overseas.

As a reserve soldier, you serve the overall branch, and you do not belong to a specific state, and do not fall under that state's chain of command.

In either one, you can be activated in a time of need. But if you are not activated, you have to work a MINIMUM of one weekend a month, two weeks a year for your drill training.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 2):
Also to add, I've heard that it's much harder to get a guard spot than active duty, is this correct?

Again - it all depends. I was reading a report the other day that showed some states were at 150% strength for pilots, while other states were at 60%. Obviously, if there is less of a need for you, then you are less likely to get picked up. Active duty is a little easier - because they send you where ever you are needed, and there is a greater amount of flexibility.

-UH60


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4232 times:

Thanks for the reply UH60, do you know how long the whole the process from being accepted to actually flying takes? I'm wondering if I was flying at an airline would I be able to take a leave of absence for the initial training.

User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 4):
how long

Sorry for being a Butinsky on your question, but talk to a Recruiter, better yet, talk to all of the branches, they have the current facts, and you may like helicopters more, I think an A-10 would be more fun then an F-16.

Some units are very hard to get into. Thinking of the Reno High Rollers here, they would never let you even get close to bring their scores down at William Tell. (RF-4c type, back in the day.)

Our Guard/Reserve units are about the best in the world. Wooa, I need to go change my flag to post this.



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 4):
Thanks for the reply UH60, do you know how long the whole the process from being accepted to actually flying takes? I'm wondering if I was flying at an airline would I be able to take a leave of absence for the initial training.

If you get in - we're talking about two years. Training, officer school, flight school, additional officer courses, etc... by the time you actually get to your unit as a rated aviator, it will be close to two years.

During the training time, you would be activated and would receive full time pay in your rank. Once you return to your guard unit, you would probably get a civilian job. Although there are some full-time guard soldiers, but those are the exception and the unit has to have a NEED for you to work full time.

Once you've completed your training, is when your service commitment begins. Some people think, "Oh, signed up for 6 years, so I will be out 6 years after I entered the service." Wrong. You start your six years once you've left school.

So in all reality, we're talking close to a 10 year overall commitment.

Something to think about.

-UH60


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4149 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
Again - it all depends. I was reading a report the other day that showed some states were at 150% strength for pilots, while other states were at 60%. Obviously, if there is less of a need for you, then you are less likely to get picked up. Active duty is a little easier - because they send you where ever you are needed, and there is a greater amount of flexibility.

Good friend's dad was Squadron Commander of a Reserve F-16 squadron when I was growing up, it's a great op to get sponsored up front so you don't have to commit unless it's a flight slot versus going active and throwing your name in a hat. There are always flying jobs out there in the Reserves and Guard but the thing is they are not always where people may want to go - I say screw that and I'd move to Puerto Rico or Alaska for an op to fly an F-16! I can no longer pass a flight physical but I'm going to soon look into again a Guard posistion once I finish my masters this summer, I'd love to expound upon my avionics experience in the Marines and get in as a AMO.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

The ANG is one of the best...perhaps the best...kept secret in military flying. It is truly as they say, a fraternity, and you rush to get in.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Thread starter):
Do civ pilots even have a chance or would knowing some body high up help with being accepted?

Depends. I've known some civ guys to get into tanker/transport units with a decent resume (we have one member on this board who flies C-5's actually, nice guy). As for fighters, good luck...pretty much an inside gig. Alot of (not all) the slots go to prior enlisted members of the ANG. Guys who enlist, train in some field applicable to flying (crew chief, engines, loadmaster, ops, etc), get good experience, pocket some money, and rub noses with the right people...are the ones who do fairly well (not an absolute as you'll meet alot of outside guys too). I know in my unit the pilots don't take too kindly to outsiders, as most all were prior enlisted in the unit..and a few oddball ex active-duty types. (infiltrating the ANG's ways  Wink

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Thread starter):
I know that national guard pilots fly very little but it would seem like a great experience and it would add to to the resume.

Yes and no. In order to keep your currency up you have to fly more than the requisite one weekend a month...so there's hours in it.

You'll get 200-300 hours IIRC from UPT, get your wings, and then some more at your RTU (Replacement Training Unit...trains you on your new a/c), then back to your unit. If you were hired as a part time (traditional) Guardsman, you'd get 1-2 yrs of "seasoning" training, full time flying to build your skills...then back to part-time and the airlines if you so choose (alot of guys could care less for that and go for something entirely unrelated) If you were so lucky as to secure a full-time job, you'd be there as a state employee and flying during the week. Either way you cut it, it's an awesome deal.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 4):
do you know how long the whole the process from being accepted to actually flying takes?

From the day you get hired, I've seen anywhere from a year to two years before even going to AMS (Guard's own little Officer summer camp). Then your two years of flight training/RTU....there's only so many ANG slots out there and only so much money to push people through...it's budgeted for particular FY's.

Like they say, it's not what you know sometimes, but who you know. My advice would be to join a unit, one nearby your location. Just my .02 cents though.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3973 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 4):
do you know how long the whole the process from being accepted to actually flying takes? I'm wondering if I was flying at an airline would I be able to take a leave of absence for the initial training.

Just from my personal experience with the reserves, here was my timeline to give you an idea:

Dec 2002 - Graduated college
June 2003 - Interview board and selection
Nov 2003 - Enlisted in the Air Force
May 2004 - Entered Active Duty, Started Officer Training School
Aug 2004 - Graduated OTS, Commissioned as 2LT
Sept 2004 - Medical Flight Screening
Oct 2004 - Begin UPT
Oct 2005 - Graduated UPT
Nov 2005 - Combat Survival School (19 Days)
Nov 2005 - Began C-5 school (FTU)
Mar 2006 - Graduated C-5 school
Apr 2006 - Water Survival School (2 Days); Begin of Prog Tour ("Seasoning")
Dec 2006 - End Prog Tour, return to "reserve status"

Alot of "Hurry up and wait", but it was definitely worth it. We did have a student in my UPT class who took leave from Comair and got to keep her seniority number. So it has basically taken four years to get from the interview to where I am today with about 500 hours in the C-5. Depending on the future demand for our unit (and right now I can tell you we won't be hiring anyone for a very long time since we're overmanned as it is), I still have about 1-2 years before upgrading to aircraft commander. It's an awesome career, so good luck!

[Edited 2007-05-22 04:59:02]


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineCovert From Ghana, joined Oct 2001, 1450 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

By the way, the requirements are the same for Guard/Reserve pilots to maintain currency, so you will probably end up having to come in more than your 2 days a month as a part timer (about 7 days a month) as you have to fly at least the same minimum hours as active duty every month.


thank goodness for TCAS !
User currently offlineF4wso From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 5):
Some units are very hard to get into. Thinking of the Reno High Rollers here, they would never let you even get close to bring their scores down at William Tell. (RF-4c type, back in the day.)

Huh?

RF-4Cs never competed at WILLIAM TELL. That is an air defense exercise. Recce units competed at PHOTO DERBY, PHOTO FINISH, and later RECONNAISANCE AIR MEET (RAM). The whole unit does not compete. The team is oftne selected by a flyoff of those, with civilian jobs permitting, having the availability to to attend the competition. All guard and reserve flying units have a mix of prior service and brand new aviators.

I don't mean to slam the author but the quote contained a lot of bravado that has no basis in fact.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA



Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
User currently offlineCopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1059 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 3449 times:

I'm a retired Army aviator, almost 4 years active and another 23 or so in the Army Guard. You need to seroiusly consider if it's what you want to do, if so, go for it!!

The military will pay you to go through your training, pay you well to go out and do something you love to do, and pay you a few bucks (and medical) every month after you turn 60! And, in most cases, your employer has to give you the time off.

Would I do it again? In a second!! (although I might consider a different branch or unit)


User currently offlineILCFII From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

The guard is a great opportunity! I currently fly for the airlines and am taking leave to attend UPT/RTU/Seasoning. I will return in two years and keep my seniority number. The timelines everyone is giving are pretty accurate however guard is quicker than active duty as your unit has the money to pay for your training because you are budgeted into the fiscal year that the pilot slot was awarded. Heres my timeline so far:

Interviewed August 2006
Earned Commission Summer 2007
Attending UPT November 2007

ILCFII


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