AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18889 posts, RR: 64 Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4029 times:
Plenty. Search for "747" and "Shuttle" on YouTube. Here's the first one which popped up:
AV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1266 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3859 times:
Cool video's. I have a few questions?
1. Where are these airplanes when they are not being used?
2. Are there two of them?
3. What will happen to them when the Shuttle is decommissioned, will they also be decommissioned or stay on for the furture replacement?
4. Are they special NASA pilots that fly these or do they have part time pilots that fly them?
5. Could a 777 fill this role?
Greg3322 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 193 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3768 times:
Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 3): 1. Where are these airplanes when they are not being used?
2. Are there two of them?
3. What will happen to them when the Shuttle is decommissioned, will they also be decommissioned or stay on for the furture replacement?
4. Are they special NASA pilots that fly these or do they have part time pilots that fly them?
5. Could a 777 fill this role?
There are two of them. After the Columbia accident, they were put in storage in Arizona along with a bunch of other airliners. I imagine the same will happen when the Shuttle's are retired. I can't answer the other questions.
I know they usually have one of the ships on display and open to walk inside during the Edwards AFB open houses. Nothing special inside, just a couple of rows of F-class seats in the front and nothing else behind them. I always assumed there would be some internal supports, but there is not, at least as far as I could tell. I would guess there are some more stringers, but I have nothing to compare it to.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3742 times:
Does the Space Shuttle "lift itself" during flight? Seems like it has a decent angle of attack, which it needs to glide, so how much weight does it add during flight?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Thorny From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3573 times:
Quoting Jimpop (Reply 7): What is the "Russian counterpart" doing these days? Why isn't it used to/from the ISS instead of the Soyuz?
It was a "me too" response by the Soviet Union, where leadership insisted they have their own Shuttle because the U.S. does and they were convinced the U.S. Shuttle was a military weapon system. By the time they realized their mistake (in the era of Glasnost) it was too late to turn back, so they went ahead with first flight. The first flight outwardly looked like a great success. but Buran suffered structural damage due to inadequate heat protection during re-entry, and the design for Buran 2 had to be modified. In the middle of that, the Soviet Union collapsed and fell into economic chaos. The Buran project was one of the first casualties. The Mir 2 project followed soon thereafter, but was later revived as the Russian half of the International Space Station. Buran 2 was destroyed when a snow-laden roof collapsed on it a few years ago.
Rwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1991 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3443 times:
Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 3): 3. What will happen to them when the Shuttle is decommissioned, will they also be decommissioned or stay on for the furture replacement?
Well, the SCAs are a pair of old (and moderately well used) 747-100s, and they're not going to be worth much when the shuttle retires (Orion won't need anything like the SCAs), so I'd expect they'll go to the desert to rot, or a museum. The need to undo all the NASA mods would probably make these uninteresting to any freight company.
Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 3): 5. Could a 777 fill this role?
The orbiter is not that heavy (about 151,000lbs empty), any 777 (other than a -200) could easily lift the weight. Aerodynamic issues should be reasonable to deal with as well. But there's no real point. The shuttle will supposedly retire in 2010*, and there are no more than 15** remaining flights (not counting the current STS-117).
*I think it's unlikely that NASA will manage their current schedule, and the last flight will be in 2011, unless there's another accident, which would likely terminate the program immediately.
**Only 13 are "definitely" scheduled, plus two contingency missions, plus there are rescue missions now penciled in for all remaining flights.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3250 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3441 times:
Quoting Rwessel (Reply 9): *I think it's unlikely that NASA will manage their current schedule, and the last flight will be in 2011, unless there's another accident, which would likely terminate the program immediately.
There's no shuttle funding past FY10.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
Rwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1991 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3431 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 10): There's no shuttle funding past FY10.
Of course. But if they don't get the last few of bits of ISS launched by the end of 2010, do you think they're just going to tell the Japanese, Russians and/or Italians, "Too bad, maybe we'll bother launching your components on the next space station?"
The 2010 cutoff for Shuttle flights is pretty arbitrary, and appears to be the usual "what's the earliest we can't prove we won't be done by" planning date. If the schedule slips, I'd bet the program will be extended.
Lemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3362 times:
How many fueling stops did they have to do on the typical cross-country trek? I can't imagine this configuration was particularly good for the economy of a standard 747-100, so there'd have to be at least two stops, if not 3. Were special facilities required? Or did they just land at the nearest convenient AFB that could provide proper security?
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
Rwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1991 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3347 times:
Quoting Lemurs (Reply 12): How many fueling stops did they have to do on the typical cross-country trek? I can't imagine this configuration was particularly good for the economy of a standard 747-100, so there'd have to be at least two stops, if not 3. Were special facilities required? Or did they just land at the nearest convenient AFB that could provide proper security?
It varies, but two stops is typical, three on occasion. The route varies a bit too, especially due to weather. After STS-114, Discovery flew back from Dryden/Edwards to KSC with stops at Altus AFB (Oklahoma), and Barksdale AFB (Louisiana). Typically one of the stops is overnight.
There are not really any special support requirements for the SCA at intermediate stops, just a good supply of Jet-A, adequate runway and security. They could technically use almost any airport that can handle a 747, but I'm pretty sure that the SCAs are not certified, and using a civil airport would probably involve some hassles.
At ether end you need a "Mate/Demate Device" to mount/unmount the orbiter. Range with the orbiter mounted is about 1000nm.
And a very interesting shot of the orbiter mounting hardware on the SCA:
Lemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3346 times:
Quoting Rwessel (Reply 13): And a very interesting shot of the orbiter mounting hardware on the SCA:
That's fantastic. Glad to see there are pockets of humor buried in the bureaucracy of NASA.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3250 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3319 times:
Quoting Rwessel (Reply 11): I'd bet the program will be extended.
I'll take that bet. NASA is already scrambling for CEV dollars and any funds used to extend shuttle would just about have to come from CEV - science is about tapped out....
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
RHAnthony From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3255 times:
Since touch down is at Edwards in about 3 hours, I'm guessing someone will have some new 747/Shuttle video soon!
I seriously hope some of the photographers from this site are going to be out there for landing and such... I'm trying to get the kids interested enough to head out there now
Flynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3211 times:
The SCA can land at civilian airports, no doubt creating more logistics issues over a military airfield, but for instance MCO is a alternate landing site.
Wolverine From Germany, joined Aug 2006, 409 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3205 times:
One of the russian Shuttles was found in the middle east, some years ago.. It is the one with the air breathing engines. It's planned to take it to the Museum at Speyer, Germany. But there are some problems.. So, in a few years it shall be on display at the museum..
A320ajm From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 503 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3167 times:
I have only saw pictures of this happening - the video is great! I have some questions - What would happen if the shuttle came off the 747 in flight?Do you think it would glide for a while? And would the 747 survive?
Regards
A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3250 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3164 times:
Quoting A320ajm (Reply 19): I have some questions - What would happen if the shuttle came off the 747 in flight?Do you think it would glide for a while? And would the 747 survive?
yes, yes, and yes
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
RHAnthony From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 3102 times:
So my question for you shuttle know-it-alls is... on the ferry runs, do they have a pilot in the shuttle incase they need to seperate? Or if there is some inflight issue, does the shuttle become a loss (assuming the 747 can not recover)?
I realize it would be a pain to sit in the shuttle for a few hours just for the ride, and they would need a shuttle pilot to do it, but I'm just wondering... since there is no automated landing hardware on shuttle... what if?
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3250 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3099 times:
Quoting RHAnthony (Reply 21): on the ferry runs, do they have a pilot in the shuttle incase they need to seperate?
No. Under what circumstances do you think they would need a pilot in the shuttle?
Quoting RHAnthony (Reply 21): Or if there is some inflight issue, does the shuttle become a loss (assuming the 747 can not recover)?
If there is some unrecoverable circumstance the SCA has an emergency escape system. IIRC the system blows out some windows (to vent the cabin) and then a hole in the bottom skin of the aircraft. Crew exits by sliding down a chute and then out the bottom. SCA and payload would be a total loss.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
Rwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1991 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3092 times:
Quoting RHAnthony (Reply 21): So my question for you shuttle know-it-alls is... on the ferry runs, do they have a pilot in the shuttle incase they need to seperate? Or if there is some inflight issue, does the shuttle become a loss (assuming the 747 can not recover)?
To the best of my knowledge, the explosive bolts that were used to release Enterprise during the drop tests haven't been fitted since about 1977... Further, the drop tests had a crew (as you pointed out), *and* were fueled and had the APUs running (so there would be electrical and hydraulic power) before the drop. On the ferry flights, there's no hydrazine on board for the APUs, and the shuttle is completely inert. Even worse, there are mechanical locks installed on the control surfaces, so they don't flap around (so even if you had hydraulic pressure, you still couldn't move the surfaces).
In other words, there's no way to release the orbiter in an emergency on a ferry flight.
RHAnthony From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3001 times:
Okay, thats what I was figuring. Would introduce much more opportunity for an incident having to fly it in "ready to glide" status... but I was just wondering if, in the event of a 747 engine failure or something... the whole pair would be ditched.
I guess in the big picture, that wouldn't be as bad as other shuttle incidents we've had, but still... that would suck.
25 ZANL188: "Atlantis was originally set to leave on Friday, but issues with the retraction of Atlantis' landing gear hydraulics and a damaged left hand 'salad bo
26 RHAnthony: Just renewed my L2 over there... if anyone here is a space geek and NOT on Nasaspaceflight.com, it is to Shuttle, and Orion (and all manned flights),
27 KC135TopBoom: I thought there was a plan to send one to the Smithstonian and mount Enterprize on it. Is that noth going to happen now? The 3 remaining JT-9Ds will
28 Thorny: Maybe at Edwards. The wing of Udvar-Hazy that currently houses Enterprise isn't large enough for a 747.
29 Rwessel: I hadn't heard that, but I think that would be an absolute sin. Enterprise is sitting on the floor right now where you can almost walk up to it and t
30 Rwessel: And yesterday the SCA carrying Atlantis stopped at Amarillo International (AMA) for fuel.
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 80 posts, 
From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8298 posts, 
From Germany, joined May 2005, 1905 posts, 
That's fantastic. Glad to see there are pockets of humor buried in the bureaucracy of NASA.
From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 503 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
