Wiki lists several orders for the 747-8 BBJ including two in September 2006 within a week of each other. Think its possible the White House is planning on replacing 28000 and 29000? Their two highly modified 747-200's. They've both been in service since 1990. Previous to them the 707 served as "Air Force One" for approx 28 years, from 1962 until 1990. Based on that one would think 28000 and 29000 should still have another 11 years of service as a minimum. Especially when one factors in the vast differences and improvements between the 707 and 747.
On that thought, the Pentagon recently announced the retirement of the E-4B's ( the 747, doomsday plane). They are being replaced with the C-32, the military/government issue 757. One would assume a large factor in that decision would be the lower operating costs of the C-32. Wonder if that would be a possible Air Force One replacement? Personally I would think not. IMO, when the Current Air Force One's are replaced, the White House would most likely want to continue projecting the same image of power only the 747 can do. I would love to see a 747-8 in the blue/white.
Lowrider From United States, joined Jun 2004, 2711 posts, RR: 12 Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2928 times:
I would bet that those particular 747s have quite a bit of life left in them. Does the White House really need the addition room of the 747-8? With airborne refueling, range is not much of an issue. I doubt reliability has been a concern. The parts supply is ample. I would be interested to hear a case for replacing them.
Stitch From United States, joined Jul 2005, 16009 posts, RR: 64 Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2902 times:
The E-4B's mission has been assumed by the E-6 TACAMO (Take Charge And Move Out) which was originally designed to communicate with SSBNs, but has been updated to command the land-based ICBM force, as well, since the chances of a major (1000+ warheads) surprise nuclear attack on the US is remote so we don't need as many command and control birds.
As to Air Force One, the 747 was chosen for it's capacity so I don't see the government going smaller anytime soon. Plus I imagine four engines are preferred for the sake of sheer redundancy.
BigJKU From United States, joined Feb 2007, 474 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2857 times:
I would imagine you will see a 748 buy for that purpose at the very end of the line. I am presuming that there will be no more Boeing 4 engine planes developed and that there is no way in the world that the USAF is going to fly the president around in the Whale Jet.
If that is the case they will probably buy among the last couple 748's to keep them going for a while.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2857 times:
Quoting Boeingluvr (Thread starter):
Wiki lists several orders for the 747-8 BBJ including two in September 2006 within a week of each other. Think its possible the White House is planning on replacing 28000 and 29000?
The USAF can't just order commercial airplanes in secret. For the USAF to place an order, they would have had to include the order value in their FY budget, which would have been reviewed by an appropriations committee. Replacing the premier executive transport aircraft in the world would have gained some attention on CSPAN.
DL767captain From United States, joined Mar 2007, 1717 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2809 times:
I think the 748 would be a great replacement, mostly the only benefit i see is fuel economy. The 742's probably use a lot more fuel and are not as environmentally friendly so that could be one reason to move to a newer plane, if they wanted to cut costs they could probably bring over most of the stuff in the current 742's (as they are probably not out dated) and just add a few things to the new planes to cut costs. Fuel economy could be a very important reason since the govt is beginning to become more strict about the environmental impact and reliance on fossil fuels. Since the Pentagon is replacing their 747's with 757's does this mean that they are acquiring more from somewhere? Why don't they get some 767's if they want a little more room?
And on a side note, i think the A380 would be a pretty cool plane for the president, (that might be a problem since it is not american made lol)
EBJ1248650 From United States, joined Jun 2005, 1537 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2732 times:
Quoting BigJKU (Reply 3): I would imagine you will see a 748 buy for that purpose at the very end of the line. I am presuming that there will be no more Boeing 4 engine planes developed and that there is no way in the world that the USAF is going to fly the president around in the Whale Jet.
If that is the case they will probably buy among the last couple 748's to keep them going for a while.
Is this to say the Boeing Y3 program will be a twin or three engine airplane, at most?
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18442 posts, RR: 60 Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2691 times:
This has been discussed ad nasuem. People claim the current birds have "lots of life left in them" but fail to even do any research into the history of the program, because if they did they would know that they will be approaching their replacement age by 748i EIS, and considering it takes 2-3 years to convert the planes, one would expect an order in enough time to get new aircraft into service by 2014-2015.
I do believe that it's possible both of those VIP 748i were for this purpose, unidentified because that's the SOP. If not, they will be ordered sooner than later.
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Bkircher From United States, joined Sep 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2617 times:
i think it would be pretty cool if in the future, air force one be replaced by a special 787. i think it would look rather cool to see af1 as a 787. i would think that the current one is not as fuel efficiant as some newer planes, but idk. its the presidents plane.
If the Air Force developed the F-117, the SR-71, the B-2 Spirit and the "Aurora" without out CSPAN announcing it to the world. I would say its very possible that some Government "shadow" corporation could easily purchase two 747-8 BBJ's without anyone noticing. Hell, when congress is fighting over $100 Billion to send over to Iraq, whats say $600 million in the grand scheme of thing.
As far as Y3 goes, I would put my money on a 747-8 for a replacement Aircraft. Y3 as well as Y2 and Y1 right now is "New technologies to be introduced include composite aerostructures, more electrical systems (reduction of hydraulic systems), and more fuel-efficient turbofan engines". Considering the amount of time it takes to go from that to having a prototype in the air, and from there to full production is a considerable amount of time. Say the current AF1 has ten years of life left; for numbers sake. Boeing has not even started production on the 747-8 yet. Y3 is the replacement for the 747-8 and 777 models. It will be the new long range high capacity aircraft.
The 747-8 will eventually replace the current Air Force One aircraft. Considering the amount of time it takes to order an a/c, build it, and then heavily modify it. I would say there is a very strong possibility that those orders are government orders. And if not, look for some to come.
Just as the 747-8 will replace the current 747-200's, the Y3 will eventually replace the 747-8.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2421 times:
Quoting Simps747 (Reply 10):
If the Air Force developed the F-117, the SR-71, the B-2 Spirit and the "Aurora" without out CSPAN announcing it to the world...
Why on Earth would the procurement of a new AF1 be considered a black project?
After the KC-767 fiasco, do you think anyone on Capitol Hill or at the Pentagon has any inclination of placing a covert order for Boeing products? It would be a career killer.
Not a black project, I was simply saying that if they wanted to, it could be easily done. I too see no reason why they would try to shroud such a thing in secrecy.
I definitely agree it would be a career killer, I was just saying that if for some strange obscure reason the Pentagon decided the replacement a/c needed to be acquired in confidence, it could be done. Maybe they plan on purchasing them now, upgrading and modifying them and then announcing them/presenting them when the time is right (IE when the time comes to retire the current ones). You can't order the new a/c when you retire the old ones, I would say from ordering them, to production, to modification, and finally to service you would be looking at a five year window. Based on that if they haven't already ordered them, as I said earlier I would expect an order in the next few years.
If anything one would think that an announcement of a purchase of replacement jets would be hyped up from the "more enviromentally friendly" angle. With all that goes on on "the hill", the procurement of two jets could have as much or as little attention as one would want it to have.
Isitsafenow From United States, joined Feb 2004, 4126 posts, RR: 32 Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2321 times:
Not in the least. The American public will demand a USA build plane. Go figure on a 747-800 or 787, but this will not happen for a while. I would say NW WILL retire their nines before Air Force One gets changed.
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2175301 From United States, joined May 2007, 631 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2307 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 11): Why on Earth would the procurement of a new AF1 be considered a black project?
After the KC-767 fiasco, do you think anyone on Capitol Hill or at the Pentagon has any inclination of placing a covert order for Boeing products? It would be a career killer.
Why would it not be considered black up front. There is a lot of special technology that goes into AF1 (and AF2) and I don't see any reason to announce years in advance that you are doing it.
As far as your second comment.... Ahhhh, what kind of plane do you think the US will use for it's next AF1 & 2.
Of course it will be a Boeing 747 (for many reasons - and regardless of the KC-767 - and any other - fiasco). It most certainly will not be an A380, or any other foreign aircraft.
Jhooper From United States, joined Dec 2001, 6116 posts, RR: 18 Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1907 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 4): The USAF can't just order commercial airplanes in secret. For the USAF to place an order, they would have had to include the order value in their FY budget, which would have been reviewed by an appropriations committee. Replacing the premier executive transport aircraft in the world would have gained some attention on CSPAN.
Why couldn't they just use what's left over from the $500 staplers? Actually I think it'd be really funny if they bought the Pres a couple of A380s!
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Actually I think it'd be really funny if they bought the Pres a couple of A380s! 
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