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Help ID Refueling 707  
User currently offlineScottieprecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3432 times:

This plane has been at SAT for months, and I can't ID it. I know it's owned by Omega Tanker, but there's no reg. It has three refueling baskets, 2 pods on the wings and one by the tail. Any help with ID-ing this plane would be greatly appreciated.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/397/707ig4.jpg

Thanks!

-Mike

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Well, I did my best trying to help you here, Scottie. I went to the FAA registry database, and found that Omega Air has registered 16 707s! Most are the -320C model, which I believe is what this aircraft is. So unless we have some sort of markings on this bird, I'm afraid I'm not of much help here. Good luck on your ID search.
Regards.



"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

I wonder if it is an old Italian KC-137, I hear there fleet was in good shape with low hours.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineRomeoKC10FE From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 2):
I wonder if it is an old Italian KC-137, I hear there fleet was in good shape with low hours

Uhhhhh....I've read just the oppsite, don't know.


User currently offlineIrish251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 973 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3294 times:

Definitely ex-Italian. Compare to pics on the database and you will see where the minimalist Italian military markings have been removed.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 1):
I went to the FAA registry database, and found that Omega Air has registered 16 707s! Most are the -320C model, which I believe is what this aircraft is

I don't think it is a comdi. It is a B-707-320B

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 2):
I wonder if it is an old Italian KC-137, I hear there fleet was in good shape with low hours.

I believe you are right, she does look like an Ex-ItAF KC-137. Notice she has all UHF antennas, and no VHF antennas. If she was an ex South American tanker, she would have all VHF radio antennas.


User currently offlineUscgc130 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
don't think it is a comdi. It is a B-707-320B

Note the gaps between the windows forward of the wing -- right where the cargo door is located on a -320C.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Notice she has all UHF antennas, and no VHF antennas

How do you tell? Most 707s have swept-back blade-type antennas and these are straight. Is that a distinguishing characteristic of UHF antennas? (I always figured the ones on the civilian 707s were shaped and angled the way they were for aesthetic reasons.)


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

Quoting Uscgc130 (Reply 6):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
don't think it is a comdi. It is a B-707-320B

Note the gaps between the windows forward of the wing -- right where the cargo door is located on a -320C.

It may be my eyes, but I don't see the gaps.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Notice she has all UHF antennas, and no VHF antennas

How do you tell? Most 707s have swept-back blade-type antennas and these are straight. Is that a distinguishing characteristic of UHF antennas? (I always figured the ones on the civilian 707s were shaped and angled the way they were for aesthetic reasons.)

Yes, the UHF antennas are straight, and VHF are swept back.


User currently offlineUSCGC130 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3146 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
It may be my eyes, but I don't see the gaps.

Note the blank spaces between the second and third and the tenth and eleventh windows back.

Granted, civilian -320Cs don't have spaces between their windows in that area that are any wider than those on any other 707s. But these fall right where the cargo door's cut lines would be on a -320C...even if the cut lines on this particular aircraft are all but impossible to see. Could that be the result of the lighting, the angle, and/or the shade of the paint?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
Yes, the UHF antennas are straight, and VHF are swept back.

Why? Honest question. Is there a functional reason, or is it a matter of the military not caring about aesthetics like the airlines do?


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

Quoting USCGC130 (Reply 8):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
Yes, the UHF antennas are straight, and VHF are swept back.

Why? Honest question. Is there a functional reason, or is it a matter of the military not caring about aesthetics like the airlines do?

T^he antenna style has to do with the radio signal wave lenght. I'm not an expert on this by any means, but the VHF (110.0-137.775 MHz) wave lenght is either longer or shorter than that of military UHF (225.0-395.5 MHz) frequency wave lenghts. It is interesting to note that UHF "Guard" (243.0 MHz) is exactly twice that of VHF "Guard" (121.5 MHz). I don't know if there is a relationship there, or not.

So, the antenna style has nothing to do with aesthetics.

US Military aircraft that carry both UHF and VHF radios, or have a combo VHF/UHF radio (ARC-174?) carry both types of antennas.


User currently offlineScottieprecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3075 times:

Well thanks for your help guys.. I had no idea Omega had 16 707s! I looked through the full-size picture, and the only markings I saw was a small "B 707" below the tail. I guess I'll just upload it without a reg..

thanks again!
Mike


User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

Quoting RomeoKC10FE (Reply 3):
Uhhhhh....I've read just the oppsite, don't know.

talked to a NATO 707 guy from Geilenkirchen yesterday and he told me that the ITalians 707's are in Bad shape, NATO 707 trainer visited us at TIK yesterday, they LX 20000 which is an old Luftwaffe bird with low hours.



I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineStarstream707 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2969 times:

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 11):
NATO 707 trainer visited us at TIK yesterday

Is it still here in Oklahoma City? I'd LOVE to hear that thing take off!!


User currently offlinePride From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

Definately Ex Italian Air Force. Most likely s/n MM62150. This one is sold to Omega Air as N707FR.

User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

If this is N707FR, then it was known as MM62148 with the Italian Air Force. Boeing serial #19740, line #676, delivered to TAP Air Portugal as 707-382B, in 1968. The pictured 707 Scottieprecord provided is very similiar to the aircraft pictured in the JetPhotos database...both pics show a bare-metaled finish 707 with the same patchworks.
Looks like Pride came thru for you, Mike.  Smile
Regards.



"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Quoting Starstream707 (Reply 12):
Is it still here in Oklahoma City? I'd LOVE to hear that thing take off!!

Got here on tues and left Wed night.



I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineScottieprecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Quoting Pride (Reply 13):
Definately Ex Italian Air Force. Most likely s/n MM62150. This one is sold to Omega Air as
N707FR.

Found it!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Tonna



This is definitely the same plane (same exact markings and everything). The only problem.. I look up N707FR, and the FAA gives a different serial number  Sad Does Omega have any 707-3F5Cs?

Again, Thanks so much!
Mike


User currently offlineScottieprecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2899 times:

Whoa... just kidding. There are some incorrect entries in both Anet and JPnet.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Lino Borges - Azores Spotters



This shows MM62150 as c/n 19740, which is what the FAA has as N707FR, which makes sense. All the other entries, I guess, are incorrect... I knew something was up there. haha

So, N707FR it is! Thanks!

-Mike


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