SAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 693 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13778 times:
Thailand want,s 6 Gripen and another 6 after 5years according to Swedish media. Due to Thailand's "political" issues to the minority muslims in southern Thailand the deal could be off?!
Quote: "But on Thursday the details had still not been confirmed in official quarters, reported Swedish Radio.
The Thais' previous plans to buy Russian jets have been abandoned in favour of the lighter JAS 39 Gripen, wrote the Bangkok Post."
I've searched Bangkok Post's website and found no reference to this. Considering that the unseated PM was a prime mover in this deal, there's the possibility it would encounter turbolence before an official acknowledgement is given.
MCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13642 times:
Can't afford 12 Lightnings?
Just kidding, I don't know if we'd sell them if they asked.
OD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 36 Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13517 times:
Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 5): Sometimes they do,sometimes they do not....very confusing I guess it,s politic
The Middle East being a large arms market, rich with bloody conflicts has no real Swedish made weapons that I'm aware of. I know that the Lebanese army has a number of Volvo FH heavy trucks but that's all. Maybe Russia, US, UK, France and others have a more agressive marketing strategy than Sweden, I don't really know.
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13408 times:
Quoting SAS A340 (Thread starter): Thailand want,s 6 Gripen and another 6 after 5years according to Swedish media. Due to Thailand's "political" issues to the minority muslims in southern Thailand the deal could be off?!
What's the value of only 6 Gripens? I know modern fighter aircraft are expensive, but this doesn't constitute a good half squadron.
Quote: "Thailand is the likelier of the two South-East Asian countries to make the first move, with its air force chief saying the service is seeking $1 billion over the next five years to buy new helicopters and aircraft. The priority, Air Chief Marshal Chalit Pukphasuk says, is to replace the kingdom's two fleets of Northrop F-5Es that have been in service since the 1970s and are due to be decommissioned around 2011.
While a competition is not officially under way, aircraft manufacturers have held informal talks with Bangkok for the initial sale of up to 12 fighters. However, Chalit rules out Russia's MiG-29, which is in service with neighbours such as Malaysia, saying: 'You wouldn't want a fighter jet that your neighbours have more experience on. You would want one that is a little bit more advanced than what your neighbours have.'
Saab, producer of the Gripen, is believed to be one of the frontrunners because of the growing defence ties between Sweden and Thailand. The company is seeking its first Gripen sale in Asia, and industry sources say that it is offering Thailand a competitive package that includes cheap loans."
Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 7): What's the value of only 6 Gripens? I know modern fighter aircraft are expensive, but this doesn't constitute a good half squadron.
As intended replacements for the F-5Es, seeking funding for a limited initial buy as reported could be a practical acquisition strategy, given that the RTAF have a substantial number of relatively new F-16 ADFs and had also acquired used samples. This latter fact might even factor strongly on what the ultimate replacement fighter would be.
Fairchild24 From Sweden, joined Jul 2007, 99 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12940 times:
Quoting OD720 (Reply 6): The Middle East being a large arms market, rich with bloody conflicts has no real Swedish made weapons that I'm aware of. I know that the Lebanese army has a number of Volvo FH heavy trucks but that's all. Maybe Russia, US, UK, France and others have a more agressive marketing strategy than Sweden, I don't really know.
So as SAS340 is Saying the Militaryexport law/rules in Swden is very strange
The biggest Exportmarket for Swedish Armour is the US, and the most selling article is I belilve the AT-4
Cheers
Radial engine does not leak oil, they only mark there territory
Quote: "Thailand will buy 12 Saab Gripen fighters in two batches to replace its F-5E Tigers, after the US ruled out the sale of F-16C/Ds. The Thai Air Force has announced plans to buy 12 Swedish-made JAS-39 Gripen fighter aircraft, in a deal worth some 573 million US dollars.
Saab is due to supply the first six aircraft between 2008 and 2012, with a decision on the delivery of the second six to be made later in the year."
Air Force to Get Gripen Jet Fighters; Cabinet Okays B34bn Purchase from Sweden
(Source: Bangkok Post; issued Oct. 17, 2007)
Quote: "The source said the Swedish offer was sweetened with the offer of two radar surveillance planes for free."
What's not clear is if the Gripens were to be remanufactured or new-build airframes.
N74jw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12405 times:
Why did the US block the sale of F-16's? The RTAF already flies a squadron of F-16A's. Besides doesn't the Saab Gripen contain a US-built engine (General Electric F-404-400), and carry American missiles? AMRAAM???
Our Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said today on
radio that Thailand NOW is a military ruled country
BUT they will have a election in december so they
WILL be a democracy after that : SO WE CAN SELL GRIPEN...
But i do not like it.
Carl Bildt have been out with his strong critic about Burma
but Thailand is ruled in the same way... But it is politics
and they seems always have a answer.
The report does say that it's for the S-1000 model and the photo accompanying it shows the 340-based Argus S-100. So there's a chance it could be an old AEW platform used by the SwAF instead of a newly remanufactured SAAB 2000 Erieye, in view of the Bangkok Post comment in Reply 12 and the DID one below.....
Quoting N74jw (Reply 15): I remember reading awhile back that Denmark was on the fence, given their involvement with the JSF program.
Norway is, too.
Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 16): Carl Bildt have been out with his strong critic about Burma but Thailand is ruled in the same way... But it is politics and they seems always have a answer
Quote: "In order to achieve this win, however, Saab has to throw in a very significant "something extra" – and the sale itself runs future political risks due to Thailand's situation…
[.....]
In mid-October 2007 The Thai Cabinet approved a budget of 34.4 billion baht (about $1.1 billion) for the Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) to purchase 12 JAS-39 Gripen multi-role fighters to replace its aging fleet of upgraded F-5 B/E Tiger II aircraft. The RTAF will also buy 2 Saab S-1000 Erieye Airborne Early Warning aircraft, together with associated equipment and services. Negotiations between Thai and Swedish government officials will now commence in order to conclude a formal agreement.
[.....]
Thai Air force chief Chalit Phukphasuk Chavalit reportedly met with Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont on Sept 29/07 and convinced him to support the purchase, citing the need for new combat aircraft to match neighbouring Malaysia's new SU-30MKMs. Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra reportedly ordered then air force chief ACM Kongsak Wantana to switch to the SU-30s for Thailand's own purchase, but ACM Chalit rejected the plane as unsuited to Thailand's needs when he became the new air force chief.
The Political Situation
The Thai government of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted in a Sept 19/06 coup that was widely believed to have been masterminded by Thailand's king, with the cooperation of its military. That recent fact reportedly helped provide Saab with its opportunity, as an Australian newspaper reported a Thai officer as saying that '....we preferred F-16 C/D over Gripen, [but] the Americans are not allowed by their laws to sell weapons to countries whose governments have been ousted in coups.'
Sweden's government appears to have opted for constructive engagement.
[.....]
The Gripen's planned acquisition period is rather long, and fighter jets are high-profile military deals with a lot of symbolism behind them. This makes them attractive targets in such situations.
Until Thailand actually accepts jets into operational service, therefore, we're hesitant to count this deal as truly done. The Gripen will also have to demonstrate exceptional performance against RTAF F-16s to make a strong case for Phase 2 and build a strong cadre of support within the Thai military. The Gripen is certainly capable of performing at that level – but much of the turbulence ahead of it will be of a type that its avionics aren't programmed to handle."
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4430 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11978 times:
Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 16): But i do not like it.
Carl Bildt have been out with his strong critic about Burma
but Thailand is ruled in the same way... But it is politics
and they seems always have a answer.
I wonder if these Swedish democratic considerations would stand in the way of a hoped for export sale?.....
"Oct 29/07: Defense News reports that the sale may face political problems at home. Sweden's Arms Export Control Regulations (AECM) ban military exports to 'undemocratic states' or countries engaged in civil unrest. Mona Sahlin, the leader of the Social Democrats party says "'The question, 'Is Thailand a democratic state?' may need clarification before this sale is approved."
Thailand is currently classified as a 'country moving towards a democratic rule' under the AECM, as the military leaders have said that they plan to step down and hold free and fair elections. There is a strong school of thought in Europe that 'constructive engagement,' with incentives built in for pledges of reform and for better behavior, is the best option when dealing with unfree states, up to and including the world's worst regimes. If that doctrine prevails in Thailand's case, its status as a mildly authoritarian regime that has pledged to restore democracy should remove obstacles to the sale. Time will tell.
Oct 25/07: Jane's Defense Weekly reports that the US State Department told them it 'has no restrictions on military sales to the government of Thailand.' This is important, because the GE F404 engine that powers the Gripen needs US permission for exports."
Bengan From Sweden, joined Jul 2007, 42 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11932 times:
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 18):
Oct 25/07: Jane's Defense Weekly reports that the US State Department told them it 'has no restrictions on military sales to the government of Thailand.' This is important, because the GE F404 engine that powers the Gripen needs US permission for exports."
Interesting, this conflicts with the sources claiming that the reason for not going with F-16 was restrictions from the US.
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4430 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11912 times:
Quoting Bengan (Reply 19): Interesting, this conflicts with the sources claiming that the reason for not going with F-16 was restrictions from the US.
I'm not aware of an explicit US Govt issued directive restricting new F-16 sales to Thailand. More likely, LockMart's non-acceptance of Thailand's barter requirement could be the reason the deal did not progress.....
Quote: "Bangkok is to spend up to $800 million on the new aircraft, but says the acquisition must be funded under a barter deal, which could exclude the F-16. Russia and Sweden have agreed in principle to accept the terms, but Lockheed is reviewing Thailand’s barter policy to determine if it is acceptable."
If the government was not restricting F404 sale to Thailand, less reason for it to block new F-16s.
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4430 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11140 times:
Update:
Defense-Aerospace reports that Thailand's Cabinet has approved the order for six (6) Gripens.....
Cabinet Gives Green Light to Buy Swedish Jet Fighters
(Source: Thai News Agency; issued Jan. 8, 2008)
Quote: "BANGKOK --- The cabinet has approved the procurement by the Royal Thai Air Force of six Swedish-made Gripen jet fighters with a Bhat 19 billion ($637 million) budget.
Government spokesman Chaiya Yimwilai said the air force earlier planned to buy six US-made F-5E fighters but finally chose the Swedish jets for deployment as multi-role combat aircraft."
Blackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11103 times:
How does the Gripens fare compared ot the E-2000 Eurofighter?
Andrea
25 Bengan: It's smaller, with all the negatives and positives that's attached: fewer hard-points, shorter range, lower T/W-ratio and a smaller price-tag, both i
26 DEVILFISH: You're welcome. However, although the purchase is already funded and the first Gripen is expected to be delivered late this year (while the budget fo
27 SAS A340: Today the Swedish Government gave a green light for the deal!!
28 DEVILFISH: Strange. Three hours ago, Flightglobal had that story for its headline, but now it's gone. Here's the press release from Gripen's website..... Press
33 Mortyman: Has'nt the Gripen been sold to South Korea too ?
34 TGIF: Think that would have reached the news here in Sweden. The Gripen coverage is crazy these days... Didn't know they were shopping for new fighters. Th
35 Wvsuperhornet: No look for them to add more F-15K's and Possible some F-35's in the future. I doubt South Korea would risk straying to far away from their biggest w
36 Art: According to this link, Thailand wants to buy 6 more very soon. http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...kay_for_six_more_Grippen_fighters_[Edited 2009-
37 TGIF: " target=_blank>http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...ters_ Good news for Saab and Gripen. Do you know if it's enough with an approval from the Defe
38 Art: I don't know but it looks like it requires no special budget provision: "Bangkok - Thailand's Defence Ministry on Thursday approved the air force's p
39 SAS A340: Great news,a little expected but nice to see it finalized Perhaps a followup order to replace more of there's F-5 and perhaps some of there ~¨ 50 F-1
40 TGIF: Thailands first Gripen made its maiden flight yesterday. Saab test pilot Mats Thorbiörnsson flew the aircraft during its 80 min test flight. This is
41 SAS A340: Really nice to see another customer in real. Hopefully they soon decide to take the second batch of another 6. thank you! And the shark looks like a g
42 TGIF: Another first flight, the first Thai AEW: Photo Credit: Peter Liander/ Saab There's also a short video on the Saab page. http://www.saabgroup.com/en/M
43 DEVILFISH: As expected, the follow-on order is signed..... http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...n-fighters-anti-ship-missiles.html Quote: "Thailand has signed
44 SAS A340: And today they did Order for the second batch were delivered to SAAB today according to Swedish news...Nice!!
46 Ozair: They're far more likely to pick up second hand airframes as they come out of service with nations getting NGs. Their F-16s are mostly second hand uni
47 DEVILFISH: Yes, the Swedish Air Force had been looking for buyers of their A/B frames to reduce and update their inventory at the same time. Those would be fine
48 Ozair: The Thais would see this as a step down. They love their Falcons! I've met several RTAF pilots and they aren't interested in getting rid of them so p
49 DEVILFISH: I guess among its neighbors, only the PAF would regard a windfall of seven-year-old Mirage 2000-9s a huge leap in capability. I wrote "earliest" - im
50 Max Q: Is this order for the standard or 'Super' Grippen ?
51 SAS A340: C/D Model,in other words the "standard".
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