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Thailand Want Gripens  
User currently offlineSAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 781 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15321 times:

Thailand want,s 6 Gripen and another 6 after 5years according to Swedish media. Due to Thailand's "political" issues to the minority muslims in southern Thailand the deal could be off?!


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Link only in swedish so far,Sorry!
http://www.e24.se/dynamiskt/sverige/did_16086351.asp


It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15281 times:

Quoting SAS A340 (Thread starter):
Due to Thailand's "political" issues to the minority muslims in southern Thailand the deal could be off?!

Does Sweden have any policy of not selling weapons to nations that are in certain conflicts?


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15271 times:

Now politics will jump in & wait what happens..

User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 15188 times:

Found an English version of the news in a Swedish paper.....

http://www.thelocal.se/7795/20070705/

Quote:
"But on Thursday the details had still not been confirmed in official quarters, reported Swedish Radio.

The Thais' previous plans to buy Russian jets have been abandoned in favour of the lighter JAS 39 Gripen, wrote the Bangkok Post."


I've searched Bangkok Post's website and found no reference to this. Considering that the unseated PM was a prime mover in this deal, there's the possibility it would encounter turbolence before an official acknowledgement is given.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 15185 times:

Can't afford 12 Lightnings?  Silly

Just kidding, I don't know if we'd sell them if they asked.  Smile



Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineSAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 15114 times:

Quoting OD720 (Reply 1):
Does Sweden have any policy of not selling weapons to nations that are in certain conflicts?

Sometimes they do,sometimes they do not....very confusing I guess it,s politic  Confused



It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15060 times:

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 5):
Sometimes they do,sometimes they do not....very confusing I guess it,s politic

The Middle East being a large arms market, rich with bloody conflicts has no real Swedish made weapons that I'm aware of. I know that the Lebanese army has a number of Volvo FH heavy trucks but that's all. Maybe Russia, US, UK, France and others have a more agressive marketing strategy than Sweden, I don't really know.


User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14951 times:

Quoting SAS A340 (Thread starter):
Thailand want,s 6 Gripen and another 6 after 5years according to Swedish media. Due to Thailand's "political" issues to the minority muslims in southern Thailand the deal could be off?!

What's the value of only 6 Gripens? I know modern fighter aircraft are expensive, but this doesn't constitute a good half squadron.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineOlle From Sweden, joined Feb 2007, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14941 times:

The value is so much depending on the arms etc....

User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14620 times:

In what could be the faintest indication yet of a possible Gripen order, Flightglobal reports on Thailand's tentative steps.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ia-thailand-seek-new-fighters.html

Quote:
"Thailand is the likelier of the two South-East Asian countries to make the first move, with its air force chief saying the service is seeking $1 billion over the next five years to buy new helicopters and aircraft. The priority, Air Chief Marshal Chalit Pukphasuk says, is to replace the kingdom's two fleets of Northrop F-5Es that have been in service since the 1970s and are due to be decommissioned around 2011.

While a competition is not officially under way, aircraft manufacturers have held informal talks with Bangkok for the initial sale of up to 12 fighters. However, Chalit rules out Russia's MiG-29, which is in service with neighbours such as Malaysia, saying: 'You wouldn't want a fighter jet that your neighbours have more experience on. You would want one that is a little bit more advanced than what your neighbours have.'

Saab, producer of the Gripen, is believed to be one of the frontrunners because of the growing defence ties between Sweden and Thailand. The company is seeking its first Gripen sale in Asia, and industry sources say that it is offering Thailand a competitive package that includes cheap loans."


Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 7):
What's the value of only 6 Gripens? I know modern fighter aircraft are expensive, but this doesn't constitute a good half squadron.

As intended replacements for the F-5Es, seeking funding for a limited initial buy as reported could be a practical acquisition strategy, given that the RTAF have a substantial number of relatively new F-16 ADFs and had also acquired used samples. This latter fact might even factor strongly on what the ultimate replacement fighter would be.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineFairchild24 From Sweden, joined Jul 2007, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 14483 times:

Quoting OD720 (Reply 6):
The Middle East being a large arms market, rich with bloody conflicts has no real Swedish made weapons that I'm aware of. I know that the Lebanese army has a number of Volvo FH heavy trucks but that's all. Maybe Russia, US, UK, France and others have a more agressive marketing strategy than Sweden, I don't really know.

So as SAS340 is Saying the Militaryexport law/rules in Swden is very strange

The biggest Exportmarket for Swedish Armour is the US, and the most selling article is I belilve the AT-4

Cheers



Radial engine does not leak oil, they only mark there territory
User currently offlineSAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 14088 times:

Its look,s like there are a dun deal now to buy 12 Gripen,it will probably be official during this week...... Sorry,no link yet  ziplip 


It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13972 times:

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 11):
Sorry,no link yet

Here you are.....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi...4X8AAAEAADEcpsEAAAAH&modele=jdc_34

Sweden Clinches Thai Air Force Deal

(Source: Radio Sweden; issued Oct. 17, 2007)

Quote:
"Thailand will buy 12 Saab Gripen fighters in two batches to replace its F-5E Tigers, after the US ruled out the sale of F-16C/Ds. The Thai Air Force has announced plans to buy 12 Swedish-made JAS-39 Gripen fighter aircraft, in a deal worth some 573 million US dollars.

Saab is due to supply the first six aircraft between 2008 and 2012, with a decision on the delivery of the second six to be made later in the year."


Air Force to Get Gripen Jet Fighters; Cabinet Okays B34bn Purchase from Sweden

(Source: Bangkok Post; issued Oct. 17, 2007)

Quote:
"The source said the Swedish offer was sweetened with the offer of two radar surveillance planes for free."

What's not clear is if the Gripens were to be remanufactured or new-build airframes.

[Edited 2007-10-17 08:22:00]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineN74jw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13948 times:

Why did the US block the sale of F-16's? The RTAF already flies a squadron of F-16A's. Besides doesn't the Saab Gripen contain a US-built engine (General Electric F-404-400), and carry American missiles? AMRAAM???

Party line: http://www.gripen.com/en/MediaRelations/News/2007/071017_thai.htm


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12518 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13925 times:

Here's a report from Flight; the deal also includes Erieye Early Warning aircraft (based on Saab 2000, I think).

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...s-as-thailand-selects-swedish.html

Good to see the Gripen get another sale; how many is this now - apart from Sweden? Four, I think - Hungary, Czech Rep, South Africa and Thailand.

Anyone else looking at it? I believe India is?


User currently offlineN74jw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13905 times:

I remember reading awhile back that Denmark was on the fence, given their involvement with the JSF program.

User currently offlineBofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13893 times:

English text about Gripen-Thailand...
http://www.thelocal.se/8815/20071017/

Our Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said today on
radio that Thailand NOW is a military ruled country
BUT they will have a election in december so they
WILL be a democracy after that : SO WE CAN SELL GRIPEN...

But i do not like it.
Carl Bildt have been out with his strong critic about Burma
but Thailand is ruled in the same way... But it is politics
and they seems always have a answer.

[Edited 2007-10-17 12:38:23]

User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13765 times:

Quoting N74jw (Reply 13):
Besides doesn't the Saab Gripen contain a US-built engine (General Electric F-404-400)

The Gripen is powered by its RM12 variant built by Volvo.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 14):
the deal also includes Erieye Early Warning aircraft (based on Saab 2000, I think)

This is a very interesting part of the deal.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...IR_S100B_Argus_AEWC_Cutaway_lg.jpg

The report does say that it's for the S-1000 model and the photo accompanying it shows the 340-based Argus S-100. So there's a chance it could be an old AEW platform used by the SwAF instead of a newly remanufactured SAAB 2000 Erieye, in view of the Bangkok Post comment in Reply 12 and the DID one below.....


Quoting N74jw (Reply 15):
I remember reading awhile back that Denmark was on the fence, given their involvement with the JSF program.

Norway is, too.

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 16):
Carl Bildt have been out with his strong critic about Burma but Thailand is ruled in the same way... But it is politics and they seems always have a answer

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/

Thailand Buying JAS-39 Gripens, AWACS
17-Oct-2007 20:37

Quote:
"In order to achieve this win, however, Saab has to throw in a very significant "something extra" – and the sale itself runs future political risks due to Thailand's situation…

[.....]

In mid-October 2007 The Thai Cabinet approved a budget of 34.4 billion baht (about $1.1 billion) for the Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) to purchase 12 JAS-39 Gripen multi-role fighters to replace its aging fleet of upgraded F-5 B/E Tiger II aircraft. The RTAF will also buy 2 Saab S-1000 Erieye Airborne Early Warning aircraft, together with associated equipment and services. Negotiations between Thai and Swedish government officials will now commence in order to conclude a formal agreement.

[.....]

Thai Air force chief Chalit Phukphasuk Chavalit reportedly met with Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont on Sept 29/07 and convinced him to support the purchase, citing the need for new combat aircraft to match neighbouring Malaysia's new SU-30MKMs. Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra reportedly ordered then air force chief ACM Kongsak Wantana to switch to the SU-30s for Thailand's own purchase, but ACM Chalit rejected the plane as unsuited to Thailand's needs when he became the new air force chief.

The Political Situation

The Thai government of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted in a Sept 19/06 coup that was widely believed to have been masterminded by Thailand's king, with the cooperation of its military. That recent fact reportedly helped provide Saab with its opportunity, as an Australian newspaper reported a Thai officer as saying that '....we preferred F-16 C/D over Gripen, [but] the Americans are not allowed by their laws to sell weapons to countries whose governments have been ousted in coups.'

Sweden's government appears to have opted for constructive engagement.

[.....]

The Gripen's planned acquisition period is rather long, and fighter jets are high-profile military deals with a lot of symbolism behind them. This makes them attractive targets in such situations.

Until Thailand actually accepts jets into operational service, therefore, we're hesitant to count this deal as truly done. The Gripen will also have to demonstrate exceptional performance against RTAF F-16s to make a strong case for Phase 2 and build a strong cadre of support within the Thai military. The Gripen is certainly capable of performing at that level – but much of the turbulence ahead of it will be of a type that its avionics aren't programmed to handle."



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 13521 times:

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 16):
But i do not like it.
Carl Bildt have been out with his strong critic about Burma
but Thailand is ruled in the same way... But it is politics
and they seems always have a answer.

I wonder if these Swedish democratic considerations would stand in the way of a hoped for export sale?.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...buying-jas-39-gripens-awacs-04022/

UPDATES:

"Oct 29/07: Defense News reports that the sale may face political problems at home. Sweden's Arms Export Control Regulations (AECM) ban military exports to 'undemocratic states' or countries engaged in civil unrest. Mona Sahlin, the leader of the Social Democrats party says "'The question, 'Is Thailand a democratic state?' may need clarification before this sale is approved."

Thailand is currently classified as a 'country moving towards a democratic rule' under the AECM, as the military leaders have said that they plan to step down and hold free and fair elections. There is a strong school of thought in Europe that 'constructive engagement,' with incentives built in for pledges of reform and for better behavior, is the best option when dealing with unfree states, up to and including the world's worst regimes. If that doctrine prevails in Thailand's case, its status as a mildly authoritarian regime that has pledged to restore democracy should remove obstacles to the sale. Time will tell.

Oct 25/07: Jane's Defense Weekly reports that the US State Department told them it 'has no restrictions on military sales to the government of Thailand.' This is important, because the GE F404 engine that powers the Gripen needs US permission for exports."



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineBengan From Sweden, joined Jul 2007, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 13475 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 18):

Oct 25/07: Jane's Defense Weekly reports that the US State Department told them it 'has no restrictions on military sales to the government of Thailand.' This is important, because the GE F404 engine that powers the Gripen needs US permission for exports."

Interesting, this conflicts with the sources claiming that the reason for not going with F-16 was restrictions from the US.

As for the democratic thing, Bildt has said for some time now that the final decision will be made after the 23rd december. (Link in swedish: http://di.se/Index/Nyheter/2007/10/19/253609.htm?src=xlink )


/Bengt


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 13455 times:

Quoting Bengan (Reply 19):
Interesting, this conflicts with the sources claiming that the reason for not going with F-16 was restrictions from the US.

I'm not aware of an explicit US Govt issued directive restricting new F-16 sales to Thailand. More likely, LockMart's non-acceptance of Thailand's barter requirement could be the reason the deal did not progress.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...er-thailands-fighter-equation.html

Quote:
"Bangkok is to spend up to $800 million on the new aircraft, but says the acquisition must be funded under a barter deal, which could exclude the F-16. Russia and Sweden have agreed in principle to accept the terms, but Lockheed is reviewing Thailand’s barter policy to determine if it is acceptable."

If the government was not restricting F404 sale to Thailand, less reason for it to block new F-16s.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13127 times:

The Thai military's new equipment acquisitions have just gotten an important endorsement by the King.....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi...@38AAAEAAGVyP4wAAAAf&modele=jdc_34

Thai king endorses military shopping spree



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12683 times:

Update:

Defense-Aerospace reports that Thailand's Cabinet has approved the order for six (6) Gripens.....

Cabinet Gives Green Light to Buy Swedish Jet Fighters
(Source: Thai News Agency; issued Jan. 8, 2008)

Quote:
"BANGKOK --- The cabinet has approved the procurement by the Royal Thai Air Force of six Swedish-made Gripen jet fighters with a Bhat 19 billion ($637 million) budget.

Government spokesman Chaiya Yimwilai said the air force earlier planned to buy six US-made F-5E fighters but finally chose the Swedish jets for deployment as multi-role combat aircraft."



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineSAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12664 times:

Thanks for the update,seems thats it has a green light her in Sweden to due to the election last year that takes Thailand towards a democracy.


It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 12646 times:

How does the Gripens fare compared ot the E-2000 Eurofighter?


Andrea


25 Bengan : It's smaller, with all the negatives and positives that's attached: fewer hard-points, shorter range, lower T/W-ratio and a smaller price-tag, both i
26 Post contains links DEVILFISH : You're welcome. However, although the purchase is already funded and the first Gripen is expected to be delivered late this year (while the budget fo
27 SAS A340 : Today the Swedish Government gave a green light for the deal!!
28 Post contains images DEVILFISH : Strange. Three hours ago, Flightglobal had that story for its headline, but now it's gone. Here's the press release from Gripen's website..... Press
29 Post contains links and images DEVILFISH : Update: http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...mages/AIR_S-1000_and_JAS-39_lg.jpg Done deal!..... http://www.gripen.com/en/MediaRelati...ns/News/2008/
30 Post contains images SAS A340 : Nice picture! 4 two seater and 2 single,,,,all other nations have the opposite i believe
31 Wvsuperhornet : For a small country like thailand witha limited budget it would be a good fighter for them.
32 Post contains links Bengan : http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/25Apr2008_news14.php /Bengt
33 Mortyman : Has'nt the Gripen been sold to South Korea too ?
34 Post contains links TGIF : Think that would have reached the news here in Sweden. The Gripen coverage is crazy these days... Didn't know they were shopping for new fighters. Th
35 Wvsuperhornet : No look for them to add more F-15K's and Possible some F-35's in the future. I doubt South Korea would risk straying to far away from their biggest w
36 Post contains links Art : According to this link, Thailand wants to buy 6 more very soon. http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...kay_for_six_more_Grippen_fighters_[Edited 2009-
37 TGIF : " target=_blank>http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...ters_ Good news for Saab and Gripen. Do you know if it's enough with an approval from the Defe
38 Art : I don't know but it looks like it requires no special budget provision: "Bangkok - Thailand's Defence Ministry on Thursday approved the air force's p
39 SAS A340 : Great news,a little expected but nice to see it finalized Perhaps a followup order to replace more of there's F-5 and perhaps some of there ~¨ 50 F-1
40 Post contains links and images TGIF : Thailands first Gripen made its maiden flight yesterday. Saab test pilot Mats Thorbiörnsson flew the aircraft during its 80 min test flight. This is
41 SAS A340 : Really nice to see another customer in real. Hopefully they soon decide to take the second batch of another 6. thank you! And the shark looks like a g
42 Post contains links and images TGIF : Another first flight, the first Thai AEW: Photo Credit: Peter Liander/ Saab There's also a short video on the Saab page. http://www.saabgroup.com/en/M
43 Post contains links and images DEVILFISH : As expected, the follow-on order is signed..... http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...n-fighters-anti-ship-missiles.html Quote: "Thailand has signed
44 Post contains images SAS A340 : And today they did Order for the second batch were delivered to SAAB today according to Swedish news...Nice!!
45 Post contains images SAS A340 : Ahh,you got me by 1 minute....
46 Ozair : They're far more likely to pick up second hand airframes as they come out of service with nations getting NGs. Their F-16s are mostly second hand uni
47 Post contains links and images DEVILFISH : Yes, the Swedish Air Force had been looking for buyers of their A/B frames to reduce and update their inventory at the same time. Those would be fine
48 Ozair : The Thais would see this as a step down. They love their Falcons! I've met several RTAF pilots and they aren't interested in getting rid of them so p
49 DEVILFISH : I guess among its neighbors, only the PAF would regard a windfall of seven-year-old Mirage 2000-9s a huge leap in capability. I wrote "earliest" - im
50 Max Q : Is this order for the standard or 'Super' Grippen ?
51 SAS A340 : C/D Model,in other words the "standard".
52 Ozair : The standard C model.
53 Ozair : Your right, the first 6 ordered were a split between 4 D model and two C model while the second 6 were ordered as C models.
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