Boeingluvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7620 times:
Hey just caught wind that there are a couple of orders for the US government for 787's. Possible AF1 replacement? Is this true or did I just hear wrong? Obviously I have no links or written evidence. Just rumors. Can anyone else enlighten me?
Boeingluvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7596 times:
Obviously they are. Just a rumor that 2 unknows are for the US government. Could that category cover NASA? I suppose they could be for the Air Force or Navy but that wouldn't really make sense I don't think. Possibly NASA would make sense but for what?
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7595 times:
Well, they may end up as Air Force One at some point, as any Air Force aircraft with the President on it will. As far as replacing the VC-25s and E4-Bs, not a chance. If anything, the 748I will replace the VC-25s and the VC-25s will replace the E4-Bs.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Boeingluvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7563 times:
I'm doubting an A389 or any Airbus for that matter. I believe the government would stay loyal to Boeing. They've been their provider for AF1 for quite some time, ever since the 707's. Why go from American made to French? Not to mention as some consider for Boeing to be the better of both(matter of opinion) and I'm sure Boeing holds quite a few secrets to all the extras the government wants.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7544 times:
Quoting Boeingluvr (Reply 5): I believe the government would stay loyal to Boeing. They've been their provider for AF1 for quite some time, ever since the 707's. Why go from American made to French?
I tend to agree, though the new helicopter for the presidential fleet is going to be an Anglo-Italian product with US badges stuck on it.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7470 times:
Quoting Boeingluvr (Reply 7): Yes but a lot less public and common knowledge then AF1 would be.
When the time comes to replace AF1, it will be with a US designed and built aircraft. No way would Congress permit the President to fly around the world in a foreign built aircraft.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7464 times:
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 8): When the time comes to replace AF1, it will be with a US designed and built aircraft. No way would Congress permit the President to fly around the world in a foreign built aircraft.
No it' s different then you think / feel, he/she will.
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7438 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 9): Quoting Halls120 (Reply 8):
When the time comes to replace AF1, it will be with a US designed and built aircraft. No way would Congress permit the President to fly around the world in a foreign built aircraft.
No it' s different then you think / feel, he/she will.
I said "fly around the world" Keesje, not for short hops from the White House to Andrews AFB.
We trust European aircraft for those short duration flights.
But if you really think AF1 going to ever be an Airbus product, it's time for your employer to institute random drug testing.
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1859 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7425 times:
Quoting Boeingluvr (Thread starter): Hey just caught wind that there are a couple of orders for the US government for 787's. Possible AF1 replacement? Is this true or did I just hear wrong? Obviously I have no links or written evidence. Just rumors. Can anyone else enlighten me?
Might the 787s be replacedments for airplanes currently in the SAM (special air mission) fleet? Aren't there still some VC-135s serving that fleet?
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11025 posts, RR: 53 Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 7411 times:
Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 11): Might the 787s be replacedments for airplanes currently in the SAM (special air mission) fleet? Aren't there still some VC-135s serving that fleet?
Yes, there are still a few VC-135Cs in the inventory (in Hawaii and Europe, IIRC). But, there is no need to replace these airplanes.
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6203 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 7362 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 6): I tend to agree, though the new helicopter for the presidential fleet is going to be an Anglo-Italian product with US badges stuck on it.
An Anglo-Italian helicopter is a far cry from an airliner whose manufacturer is widely perceived to be French, and in practice, is at least partially dominated by that country. You may not like that statement, but that's a big reason why.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7225 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 14): An Anglo-Italian helicopter is a far cry from an airliner whose manufacturer is widely perceived to be French, and in practice, is at least partially dominated by that country. You may not like that statement, but that's a big reason why.
Yes, what was it agian, those folks participate in Afghanistan but said the Iraq invasion was a bad idea, unforgiveable..
Sinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1516 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7141 times:
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10): I said "fly around the world" Keesje, not for short hops from the White House to Andrews AFB.
XT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2846 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7096 times:
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18): I don't know though. Maybe those crafty Europeans have found a way to fly a helicopter across the Atlantic on its own power.
If you hated the pilots enough you could ferry them over with in-air refueling. Don't mind me if I'd give that a miss from either side of the refueling bit. I'm sure its cheaper and safer to just stuff them in the back of a transport.... faster too.
Cancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 15 Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7092 times:
the VH-60 easily folds up and fits into a C-17, which it why it travels. as far as the VH-71 is concerned, i doubt that it would fit as easily into a C-17.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
Checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 896 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6988 times:
My guess is that a possible 787 buy would be to replace either the 757's...as that is really what the 787 is for in the first place...or some of the older models like some here have already pointed out. I think if Airbus had a building facility here in the US, then they might stand a chance for a bid on presidential aircraft because the building process could be closely monitored. Not to mention maintenance and improvements could be accomplished close to home. Just my two cents.
DL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6872 times:
they could replace the 757's but not the 747's I think the 748 will be the best replacement (A380 would be cool but it probably won't happen)
Makes sense to me. As many others have said here, the VC-25 is still a young pup when it comes to total hours. However, I wouldn't doubt that replacement talk is underway. The term "pork barrel" comes to mind.
A "VC-787" may be possible for domestic routes though. Maybe some are hearing the grumblings of people wondering why a 747 is transporting the POTUS across a couple states when a smaller aircraft would do. A plane the size of a 787-8 had the range and size to support such missions, but wouldn't up to the "Flying White house" standards. But if the VC-25 were to replaced today, I can't see it being anything but the 747-8. Especially if the "attic space" is utilized to increase the aircrafts capability. I understand that the VC-25 can do almost everything the E4-B's can do. If this is the case, then a "VC-748" would replace both the VC-25 and E4-B's.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
XT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2846 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6733 times:
Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 23): Makes sense to me. As many others have said here, the VC-25 is still a young pup when it comes to total hours. However, I wouldn't doubt that replacement talk is underway. The term "pork barrel" comes to mind.
A "VC-787" may be possible for domestic routes though. Maybe some are hearing the grumblings of people wondering why a 747 is transporting the POTUS across a couple states when a smaller aircraft would do. A plane the size of a 787-8 had the range and size to support such missions, but wouldn't up to the "Flying White house" standards. But if the VC-25 were to replaced today, I can't see it being anything but the 747-8. Especially if the "attic space" is utilized to increase the aircrafts capability. I understand that the VC-25 can do almost everything the E4-B's can do. If this is the case, then a "VC-748" would replace both the VC-25 and E4-B's.
yah, I could certainly see acquiring a single 748 for the president, leaving the VC25's as backup. the VP/Press/Whatever could have a small fleet of 787 as these have the range for effortless transpacific operations so it would be no reason to swap to 747's on that factor.
The 748 built frame out to be Airforce 1, would likely be a very economical decision as the running costs will be far lower, and the use of modern electronics should provide for far cheaper serviceability and future upgrades. If total size is a problem, I'm not sure it would be hard to talk Boeing into a one off 744 length plane given it would be delivered "green" for conversion anyway... (also would have its own flight test program regardless of how close to "stock" it is)
25 Lehpron: I'm not sure I would want my tax money to go into that kind of extravagance.
26 PC12Fan: It's already gone into two 747's, what difference does it make?
27 Playloud: Would it be possible to re-engine the two AF1 jets with the GEnx (747-8) engines? This would be far cheaper than purchasing new planes.
28 WrenchBender: Actually Halls thats how the canadian forces took delivery of thier 15 EH101's. Italy-Scotland-Iceland-Greenland-Canada WrenchBender
29 Halls120: LOL, that's one hell of a flight! Of course, I meant a nonstop flight across the Atlantic.....
30 LimaNiner: EADS, the Airbus's "mothership", is a *European* company, not a "French" company. 22.5% of its shares are owned by DaimlerChrysler (which I'd call a
31 Par13del: For me the issue is not that the a/c is either French, or Anglo-Italian, but that the Office of the President of The United States, the only real supe
32 F27Friendship: This only holds untill someone else builds something better, like the US101 which is now the presidential helocopter, or as you pointed out, using th
34 EBJ1248650: Would you elaborate on why there is no need to replace these planes? Low airframe time? Might using the 787 for the SAM mission in Europe be an image
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