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Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt  
User currently onlineLH526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2360 posts, RR: 14
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7782 times:
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So, pending governmental approval, the FACh decided to go for a second hand A310 MRTT as the new presidential plane dubbed "Bachelet Uno".

Any guesses where the plane might come from? Germany?

Mario
LH526


Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7772 times:

Nice to see that there will be some more A310MRTTs around the world except for Germany and Canada. Any idea were the aircraft will come from ?
P.S. Should this thread not be in mil.av.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7683 times:

Unlikely it would come from German Air Force. Maybe Canada trades in one of theirs now that they get C-17s?

User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7693 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 2):
Maybe Canada trades in one of theirs now that they get C-17s?

We have no plans of downsizing the CC150 fleet, besides we only modded 2 to MRTT status.

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7683 times:

Any links? I don't think 921 has too many cycles on it - did it come from airline service previously and now getting a bit troublesome? Not sure that it had been fitted with AFTs, but if range is the only issue, wouldn't a PATS/Boeing modification be a better idea?

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I don't think a switch to an as old tanker/transport is more desirable, but if size and range are the driving factors, then this dedicated VIP 735 will likely lose out. If not from Canada and Germany, who else has A310 MRTTs? Might it be one of the VIP 767s currently available?



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently onlineLH526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2360 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7644 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

For political reasons Bachelet opted for getting a plane that is not entirely VIP but can also be used on a multi purpose basis. Not the smartest move in my oppinion .. it might b a good coice in politics,. but will turn out a big disadvanage in every day FACh service.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 4):
Any links? I don't think 921 has too many cycles on it - did it come from airline service previously and now getting a bit troublesome?

No, the B735 came directly from Boeing and is the real Presidential VIP plane, not so the FACh B733 wich is an ex LH plane.

Mario
LH526



Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlineTexL1649 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7641 times:

The A310MRTT might be a great plane, but it's not great to see it used by a despot.

User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7631 times:

Quoting TexL1649 (Reply 6):
The A310MRTT might be a great plane, but it's not great to see it used by a despot.

Say What ?????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Bachelet
Hardly a despot, are you maybe confusing HER with August Pinochet?

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7591 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 4):
If not from Canada and Germany, who else has A310 MRTTs

Nobody, France and Spain have A310 in Air force service though ... but not as MRTTs. Maybe they get a second-hand A310 from some airline and subsequently let EADS refit it to MRTT?


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7548 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 8):
Maybe they get a second-hand A310 from some airline and subsequently let EADS refit it to MRTT?

Did a little search. Apparently, EADS offered the MRTT to Chile. This may be where the debate originally came from (in Spanish).....

http://aeroblogs.aeropuertosarg.com...._presidencial&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12435 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7542 times:

They will be -200s rather than -300s, according to Flight International:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...presidential-transport-duties.html

That kind of narrows it down a bit; kind of surprising really, since one would think that -300s would be preferable, particularly given the extra weight of equipment on the tanker aircraft which might compromise the -200's range a bit?


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7507 times:

Quote:

Chile is acquiring a pair of Airbus A310-200s for presidential transport and air-to-air refuelling duties under a $104 million deal with EADS.

The European aircraft will replace the air force's Boeing 737-500 and the contract with EADS covers the purchase and overhaul of the two A310s, plus the conversion of one of the airliners to multi-role tanker/transport configuration.

So 104Mil$ for 2x used A312s + 2x D-Check + 1x MRTT conversion. I'd guess it would cost about 90Mil$, but OK, EADS want to make its profit ...


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7451 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 10):
They will be -200s rather than -300s, according to Flight International:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...presidential-transport-duties.html

That kind of narrows it down a bit; kind of surprising really, since one would think that -300s would be preferable, particularly given the extra weight of equipment on the tanker aircraft which might compromise the -200's range a bit?

Where do the aircraft come from ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7438 times:

Does it have winglets?.....

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Could both be any of these?.....

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Photo © Eric Phan


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Photo © Herson Mendes
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Photo © DAI - Dutch Aviation Images


IIRC, some of SQ's and Lufthansa's -200 series went to FedEx while Air India's were -300 series.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 11):
So 104Mil$ for 2x used A312s + 2x D-Check + 1x MRTT conversion. I'd guess it would cost about 90Mil$, but OK, EADS want to make its profit ...

Or, could this have been tied to LA's later orders?  scratchchin 



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7391 times:

Quoting TexL1649 (Reply 6):
The A310MRTT might be a great plane, but it's not great to see it used by a despot.

Ms Bachelet was elected in an observed and fair democratic process.
Catch up on the facts.

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 7):
Say What ?????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Bachelet
Hardly a despot, are you maybe confusing HER with August Pinochet?

 checkmark  Most likely.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7313 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
Where do the aircraft come from ?

Desert? Turkish still has one, S7 might have a low number of them ... any other?

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 13):
Or, could this have been tied to LA's later orders? scratchchin

But the contract partner of defense deals is usually EADS directly or Airbus Military in case of the A400M. Civilian deals are made with Airbus directly ...?


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7287 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 11):
1x MRTT conversion

Is this -300 airframe still being used for air refuelling boom tests and retained as a testbed for potential tanker orders? Must be pretty rundown with a lot of cycles.....

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The -200 series were already ordered - but how serious a logistical issue would it be (pilots, mx crew, spare parts, etc) if a -200 were selected for the VIP duty and a -300 for the MRTT? Wouldn't there be more -300s in better condition available than -200s?

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 15):
But the contract partner of defense deals is usually EADS directly or Airbus Military in case of the A400M. Civilian deals are made with Airbus directly ...?

Isn't Airbus still part of EADS? If they could partner with NG on a potential multi-billion dollar contract and make it work, I don't think an inter-division (or however they categorize it) arrangement would be impossible.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7261 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 16):
Must be pretty rundown with a lot of cycles....

Why? It's not that old. Its former operaters used it primarily on long haul and test aircrafts usually don't get that much cycles.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 16):

Isn't Airbus still part of EADS? If they could partner with NG on a potential multi-billion dollar contract and make it work, I don't think an inter-division (or however they categorize it) arrangement would be impossible.

I actually don't have sufficient knowledge to answer that, that's why I put a question mark behind it. Organizational and legal structures at EADS are WEIRD to say the least. And I don't know how the Chilean Air Force relates to LA.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 16):
The -200 series were already ordered - but how serious a logistical issue would it be (pilots, mx crew, spare parts, etc) if a -200 were selected for the VIP duty and a -300 for the MRTT? Wouldn't there be more -300s in better condition available than -200s?

A313 and A312 are not THAT different. Pilot type ratings should be the same as they share the same cockpit and the same dimensions. The -300 has slightly updated engines, 7tons additional fuel in the tail plane plus the winglets (which the A312 can also have). I don't think it would be an issue.

The only issue I see is: Which air frame is it going to be: There are some in the desert and very few in airline service.


User currently offlineZvocio79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7228 times:

what ever variant it is, it better be a long range ass aircraft.....so so she wont have to stop in 4 different airports when flying to MAD for instance.
that 737 they have can't even make it from the northern Chilean City of Arica to the southern Punta Arenas, what a shame...with a 10% copper reserve thier armed forces get the should be able to afford a 767-300 or something.


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7215 times:

Quoting Zvocio79 (Reply 18):
what ever variant it is, it better be a long range ass aircraft.....so so she wont have to stop in 4 different airports when flying to MAD for instance.

 checkmark  yes, better a -300 than a -200, the difference is a little more than one hour of flight, independent of how many ACTs they put in her belly ...


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6672 times:

Quoting LH526 (Thread starter):
Any guesses where the plane might come from? Germany?



Quoting Columba (Reply 12):

Where do the aircraft come from ?



Quoting PADSpot (Reply 17):
The only issue I see is: Which air frame is it going to be:

It seems Columba himself has provided the answer to these.....

Luftwaffe Will Get 2 Used A340s In 2010 (by Columba Mar 1 2008 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

Quoting Columba (Reply 44):
The A310 will not be comverted into MRT(T)S but will be sold.


It looks like the A310s would come from Germany, after all.

[Edited 2008-03-07 14:00:21]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6434 times:



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
It seems Columba himself has provided the answer to these.....

Luftwaffe Will Get 2 Used A340s In 2010 (by Columba Mar 1 2008 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

That conclusion may be obvious now, but the Chilenean intend to buy A310 MRTT popped up much earlier than the German intend to replace A310VIPs with A343s.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6319 times:



Quoting PADSpot (Reply 21):
That conclusion may be obvious now, but the Chilenean intend to buy A310 MRTT popped up much earlier than the German intend to replace A310VIPs with A343s.

According to some rumors the deal between LH and the Ministry of Defence was in the works for some time now.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6267 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 21):
That conclusion may be obvious now, but the Chilenean intend to buy A310 MRTT popped up much earlier than the German intend to replace A310VIPs with A343s.

As noted above, the deal with Chile must have also been under negotiation for quite a while, and would likely be as you described (maybe discounted a bit for the actual cost).....

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 11):

So 104Mil$ for 2x used A312s + 2x D-Check + 1x MRTT conversion. I'd guess it would cost about 90Mil$, but OK, EADS want to make its profit ...

.....and although it may not mean anything, Flightglobal's linked report in Reply 10 was curiously illustrated by a photo of the Luftwaffe's A310 tanker - albeit a -304, as their MRTTs are the same series.....

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Photo © Andreas Zeitler - Flying-Wings


[Edited 2008-03-13 18:35:36]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5258 times:

Could anybody please confirm if this is now Chile's Fuerza Area Uno  Confused

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If it is, then the A310MRTTs might not have been converted, or pushed through - after all.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
25 Bennett123 : A310 0270 5N-AUE ST 1988- 0276 F-OGYW ST 1990-1991 2002- 0285 5N-AUF ST 1996-2008 RTS 2008- 0291 7T-VJC 0293 7T-VJD ST 2004- 0295 TS-IGU ST 1987-1988
26 A342 : Both statements are right. I have also read that FACh wants to buy two former USAF KC-135Es (they need booms for their new F-16s).
27 Bennett123 : A310 version 2 0276 F-OGYW ST 1990-1991 2002- 0291 7T-VJC 0293 7T-VJD ST 2004- 0295 TS-IGU ST 1987-1988 2005- 0300 F-WQTE ST 2003-2003 2003- 0306 TS-I
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