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Tu 22 " Backfire " 22M In Attack Mode Near Norway  
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4087 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12717 times:

Two Tupolev 22 M " Backfire " were seen close to Norwegian airspace in a classical attack position off the coast of Bodø, Norway. They actually carried long range missile ( used for nuclear bombs ). This was on the 28th August this year. However the Tupolev's returned well before they came within the Norwegian 12 nautical miles marker off Norway's coast.

Norwegian F 16 went up to inspect...

The Norwegian defence does not regard the incident as a provocation. But unusual.

However even though it is regarded an unusual manouver , the Russians were not breaking any Norwegian airspace.

Our Russian neighbour has really boomed up their excersizes lately...



Article in Norwegian:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article2041674.ece

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuper98 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12722 times:

This "muscle flexing" of late is getting more and more irresponsible.

This may be the spark that creates the next great conflict.

Is Russia looking for a new cold war? Are they nostalgic to return to the old days of stability and bi-hegemini with the US?

Are they trying to impress client states?

What is going on here? What will Putin's successor do with all the resentment that this is engendering?

This will eventually lead us to a very bad place again!

RM


User currently offlineNG1Fan From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12723 times:

Quoting Super98 (Reply 1):
This "muscle flexing" of late is getting more and more irresponsible.

Is it? They are 'merely' resuming air patrols suspended because they couldn't afford them. Pilots need stick-time, right?

That's not to say that the world is looking forward to additional tensions.

There is a saying in Russian: if they fear us, they respect us'.

NG1Fan


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12720 times:

Something for MilAv Forum?

User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 12725 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
However the Tupolev's returned well before they came within the Norwegian 12 nautical miles marker off Norway's coast.

That's an AS.4 missile under its belly. It has up to 900km range and potentially a nuclear warhead. It did not had to breach my 12mile zone to pose a provocation to me.


User currently offlineFlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 12674 times:

Quoting NG1Fan (Reply 2):
There is a saying in Russian: if they fear us, they respect us'.

Yah, and look what it got them at the end of the Cold War, a country that fell apart. I dont think many people "respect" Russia so much as act a little differently around them to keep things cool.

Quoting Super98 (Reply 1):
This "muscle flexing" of late is getting more and more irresponsible.

This may be the spark that creates the next great conflict.

Is Russia looking for a new cold war? Are they nostalgic to return to the old days of stability and bi-hegemini with the US?

Are they trying to impress client states?

What is going on here? What will Putin's successor do with all the resentment that this is engendering?

This will eventually lead us to a very bad place again!

In my opinion (which is one of actually having faith in the US), the only thing to fear from Russia is a nuclear attack. Now I'd like to think that they are still smart enough to not use that option, but who knows. As far as conventional war that may be sparked as a result, I think Russia would come out wishing they hadn't been pulling this elementary school bulls**t. And if Russian pilots need stick time, there is PLENTY of Russian airspace not bordering other countries in which they can do it. US pilots don't go get their stick time by arming themselves with nuclear weapons then flying up and down the Russian's airspace. Russians have nothing to gain and everything to loose from this.



Go Trojans! Fight On!
User currently offlineSovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2648 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 12471 times:

You guys are overreacting. Resuming air patrols is not going to bring in another Cold war or any great conflict. How is this endangering? Who cares if they fly close to the border as long as they are in their airspace? A country has the right to fly in ALL of their airspace right? And those missiles can be fitted with conventional warheads, they're not flying around with nuclear munitions. Stop your complaining. It's not like the US or any other country doesn't fly close to the airspace of neighbors.

User currently offlineOV735 From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 918 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12443 times:

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 6):
And those missiles can be fitted with conventional warheads, they're not flying around with nuclear munitions.

"Good news, Boss! They didn't hit us with a nuke, but just a conventional bomb!" Big grin


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4087 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12399 times:

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 6):
You guys are overreacting. Resuming air patrols is not going to bring in another Cold war or any great conflict. How is this endangering? Who cares if they fly close to the border as long as they are in their airspace? A country has the right to fly in ALL of their airspace right? And those missiles can be fitted with conventional warheads, they're not flying around with nuclear munitions. Stop your complaining. It's not like the US or any other country doesn't fly close to the airspace of neighbors.

As long as they stay out of Norwegian airspace, it's OK. However Norway has to stay alert. We're a small country next to a very large and powerful one. We have to take precautions.

And, no we wont have a new cold war, but we may come in conflict with Russia in the future. Right now, alot of things are happening up north, in the Barents sea and the arctic. Alot of new resources are found and will be exploited, such as oil and gas and new transport ways, if the ice cap melts. Where there is alot of resources, there is usually conflict between nations, fighting ovr them,. I hope it wont happen, and it might be other countries and not Russia that will pick a fight, but to think that everything will be peaceful no matter what, may prove to be naive.


User currently offlineCactushp From United States of America, joined May 2004, 348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 12400 times:

No. The posters above are not overreacting. The difference between an ordinary Tu-22 flying near a border and this incident, is that the aircraft was clearly carrying munitions, which very likely were nuclear.


Sorry, I was on the landline
User currently offlineCactusHP From United States of America, joined May 2004, 348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 12398 times:

No. The posters above are not overreacting. The difference between an ordinary Tu-22 flying near someones airspace and this incident, is that the aircraft was carrying munitions, which were very likely to be nuclear. This will inherently create more tension than if a drone or something like that was flying near Norway.


Sorry, I was on the landline
User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12398 times:

Russia is drumming up business for the Eurofighter and various American fighters!  bigthumbsup   duck 

User currently offlineSovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2648 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12399 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):
And, no we wont have a new cold war, but we may come in conflict with Russia in the future. Right now, alot of things are happening up north, in the Barents sea and the arctic. Alot of new resources are found and will be exploited, such as oil and gas and new transport ways, if the ice cap melts. Where there is alot of resources, there is usually conflict between nations, fighting ovr them,. I hope it wont happen, and it might be other countries and not Russia that will pick a fight, but to think that everything will be peaceful no matter what, may prove to be naive

I agree. Russia and Norway are on good temrs, there is no reason to fear anything for now. I was just responding to the general overreaction that somehow a plane flying with missiles close to the border is a sign of a new war brewing


User currently offlineHighlander0 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12231 times:

Quoting Oroka (Reply 11):
Russia is drumming up business for the Eurofighter and various American fighters!

Damn, how did you work it out! alert 

Its all part of a secret ploy by BAe and Northrup Grumman.  biggrin   biggrin 


Perhaps another factor to the increase in reports is due to the Litvenenko case, and the media response and now, almost microscopic analysis (espescially in the UK media) to anything aviation related over the North Sea.


User currently offlineN74jw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12232 times:

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 5):
In my opinion (which is one of actually having faith in the US), the only thing to fear from Russia is a nuclear attack.

Another big risk from Russia is the mob and their army of botnet-equipped hackers. The electronic frontier can be the future battleground. Denial of service attacks can destroy communications.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12138 times:

Quoting Oroka (Reply 11):

Agreed. A good excuse for Canada to purchase F-35's and or increase the CF-18 fleet beyond current DND plans.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineNorlander From Faroe Islands, joined Sep 2007, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11994 times:

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 6):
A country has the right to fly in ALL of their airspace right?

If they where 12-20 miles from Lofoten and Bodø they were nowhere near Russian airspace.



Longtime Lurker
User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11961 times:

Quoting N74jw (Reply 14):
Its all part of a secret ploy by BAe and Northrup Grumman

It is actually a Iranian F-14 with only one vertical stab, they are saying it is now hypersonic, space capable, and transforms into a fighting robot!



User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11873 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):
As long as they stay out of Norwegian airspace, it's OK. However Norway has to stay alert. We're a small country next to a very large and powerful one. We have to take precautions.

True enough. And Russia may simply be trying to re-establish itself as a world power. The question is whether they're trying to be an intimidating world power or one that just wants to make sure Russia can hold its own in the grand scheme of things. Hard to tell.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11831 times:

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 18):
The question is whether they're trying to be an intimidating world power or one that just wants to make sure Russia can hold its own in the grand scheme of things

That is an extremely thin line. And as long as there are other world powers that clearly use their power to intimidate Russia, I cannot not believe that Russia aims at becoming this kind of self-focused world power. They are actually forced to re-intimidate in order to keep the opposing world powers at bay. Re-intimidating by canceling the KSE and INF treaties for instance ... just as it happens these days.

Wasn't it GWB that came up the the self-focused world power idea very early in his first term and before 9/11? I remember him talking about putting a greater emphasis on domestic problems and that he would like the US to get rid of its role as the world's cop ...


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 11815 times:

Well, Russias President, Vladimir Putin, who's ex-KGB, did say one of the greatest tragedies was the fall of the Soviet Union...

And maybe he's sick of the US going without any country to counterbalance it... I'd be eyeing the Russians actions with a close eye, let's put it that way if they start flying off the coasts of our allies with cruise missiles that could potentially be nuclear...

These weapons have a significant range and pose a threat way beyond the 12nm distance off the coast...


Andrea Kent


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 11802 times:

Putin certainly is sane enough not to really start trouble. I think this has mainly interior reasons, he is trying to bring back some things from the Soviet time that people in Russia miss - the feeling of being a feared power. The experience post-1991, when they couldn't fly the planes, because of the lack of money, everywhere, is certainly still in the mind of many Russian. Putin is trying to compensate, it has to do with the election next year, those flights might actually be reduced after it.

From the military perspective, where is really the danger? NATO forces could shoot everything down that the Russians have, Tu-22s and Tu-95 are amazing aircraft, but completely outdated.


User currently offlineGlideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 11761 times:

You would think they would tone this down with their opposition to the Anti Missile set up un Poland and the Check Rep. Several scenarios.

1) Intimidate Europe, Europe pressures US to scrap Missile deployment.

2) Intimidate the US, Well, you'll need More than the 2 TU-22 they have flying. Bears are Model T's.

3) Intimidate Poland and the Check Rep to back out.

4) Simply a move to reinvigorate the Russian Armed Forces. Defections are at their highest rate in history.

5) Putin really was pissed off by GHW Bush for telling him to act like a submissive 3rd world power with nukes during the retreat overnight in Maine.

6) IMO, in the future there will be more tension between China and Russia than the US. Russia has the natural resources that China needs.

7) Or there all wrong and Putin wants the world to know not to mess with him when he appoints his replacement (vote cough, cough) and becomes Prime Minister to rule for another term and President.

[Edited 2007-10-13 17:30:56]


To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlineSovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2648 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 11727 times:

The Tu-95 and Tu-22M are old for sure but to say they are completely outdated Model Ts is just plain ignorant. Remember USA is still flying old B-52s as well. Both sides obviously update their aircraft. Neither the B-52s nor the Tu-95s flying now are at all similar to what flew in the early 50s.

User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 11690 times:

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 22):
Intimidate Europe, Europe pressures US to scrap Missile deployment.

Which is happening these days ...

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 22):
Well, you'll need More than the 2 TU-22 they have flying. Bears are Model T's.

They have several dozent Tu-22 flying and the Tu's have been built in the late 80 and early 90s. It merely the designation that is old. All the TU-96s in service are Tu-142 based airframes.

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 22):
Intimidate Poland and the Check Rep to back out.

It's the Czech Republic. Second, you can't intimidate the Poles or the Czechs without intimidating NATO, without intimidating the US.

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 22):
Simply a move to reinvigorate the Russian Armed Forces.

A reason among others ...

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 22):
Defections are at their highest rate in history.

It has been higher during the Chechen wars.

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 22):
Putin really was pissed off

Russians are proud people. Pride and honour do have an important meaning for them. And they are extremely patriotic to say the least ...

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 22):
IMO, in the future there will be more tension between China and Russia than the US. Russia has the natural resources that China needs.

The cancellation of the INF treaty is clearly aimed at Pakistan, India and China. But I don't think conflict will be about resources.

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 22):
Or there all wrong and Putin wants the world to know not to mess with him when he appoints his replacement (vote cough, cough) and becomes Prime Minister to rule for another term and President.

Putin did not has to manipulate election results. He is extremely popular among his people (and so were other despots early in their time). But it is very important to acknowledge that they have elections these days and he already denied multiple times that he intends to change the constitution so that he could get into office for a third term. He has got no reputation as a turncoat whatsoever, more that of a brilliant strategist.

[Edited 2007-10-14 01:33:46]

25 Mortyman : Again, Russia is in an economical boom these days, and they are using much of their money on the military. Subarines and Aircraft. This discussion tha
26 Norlander : I'm waiting for them to unveil a new version of the TU-160, with more modern technologies. That would be something.
27 Wvsuperhornet : Agree'd I will worry when they start flying new planes around until then let them waste their fuel. Dont bet on it seems to me that Poland has decide
28 Wvsuperhornet : Dont hold your Breath!!!!
29 Post contains links and images Mortyman : Two TU160 " Blackjack " was flying near Norways' airspace last night: This is a picture taken earlier The AMerican eqvalient to the TU 160 would be th
30 Post contains links and images Mortyman : Tupolev 22 with cruise misile attached... Tupolev 95 " Bear ":
31 PADSpot : The Tu-160 and B-1B may look similar, but apart from that are entirely differently airplanes to start with. Well, but we have take care not to exagge
32 Mortyman : It is provocative that they take very special interest in flying near our oil and gas fields in the North sea. They have'nt flown in that area since t
33 TheCol : They're competing for the same portion of the arctic that Canada, Norway, Denmark, and the Americans are. However, Russia doesn't want to play nice.
34 OlegShv : How do you know what they would do if Norway were not a part of NATO? Can you please elaborate on your statement that a B1-B is superior compared to
35 FlyUSCG : Well Considering one is American and one is Russian I would assume so. Once again also interesting that the Russian one came much later than the Amer
36 Acheron : How about you start enumerating all the planes you claim to be "copies".
37 Post contains images Sovietjet : There is always that one person on every thread dealing with Russian aircraft that will claim that they are all copies. It's a pretty ignorant stateme
38 PADSpot : Dimensions, range, payload, mission, speed etc etc ... all different.
39 MD11Engineer : The external shape of the planes is dictated by physics. The B-1 and the Tu-160 are designed to fly at appr. the same speeds and a similar mission pro
40 PADSpot : The Tu-160 can do Mach 2 while the B-1B's max speed is somewhere around Mach 1.3. The Tu-160 is about 10-20% larger, has more range, higher payload a
41 TheCol : Talk to someone from one of the former eastern block countries.
42 Scooter01 : Most of the pre-'91 people are still there.... Scooter01
43 Post contains images TheCol : Yeah, that too...
44 Thorben : One just has to love that tail gunner that the Tu-95 has. How pre-historic, do they really expect to shoot anything down with that thing?
45 PADSpot : A too curious jet fighter trying to visually intercept the Tu-95 would probably be a safe kill for the tail gunner.
46 N74JW : I think the inteceptors can do a visual confirmation that is well out of the range of the Tu-95's tail gunner. The F-15A had a telescope fitted for a
47 PADSpot : Sure, I thought of a situation where an attack would not be anticipated. An EF can identify the TU-95 by radar from a hundred miles away by "non-coop
48 N74jw : Right, I still think a pilot would approach the Tu-95 from underneath, and below the arc of tail gunner's range of fire. Then the interceptor can move
49 PADSpot : A radar lock-on outside the scope of an exercise and in international air space is a hostile act.
50 N74JW : Would aiming a pair of canons at another aircraft be considered such?
51 Post contains images Glideslope : Exactly I'd limit that to Russian Political Leaders, and Generals. ...and second rate at that. Hence, the now exposed attempts to hack into Western D
52 FlyUSCG : Well based on the interview with the F-15 pilot, the Russians pointing the tailgun at the F-15 initiated the hostile act.
53 PADSpot : Agreed, but then it wouldn't be a "preemptive" radar lock as N74jw proposed it.
54 Blackbird : Putin's been acting up quite a bit... I think the Russians are up to something. Andrea Kent (Let's hope I don't end up getting Polonium-210 or Thalliu
55 Scooter01 : With the current activity of older Russian strategic aircraft flying so far from their home-bases and close to Norway, we are worried about the mechan
56 Post contains links and images Mortyman : A Russian " Bear " and a Norwegian F 16 The Russians have often been heading towards the UK lately after they have done their tour outside the coast o
57 Post contains links and images Mortyman : A Norwegian F 16 up close and personal with a Russian " Bear "
58 Bennett123 : Personally, I would expect an F15 pilot to be able to ID a TU95 without coming within cannon range. Besides does anyone seriously think that the TU95
59 PADSpot : Even the old APG-63 has non cooperative target recognition modes, which should work nicely on such a huge target with those very distinctive propello
60 Scooter01 : According to Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten, there used to be up to 600 Soviet flights that the Norwegian Airforce identified close to Norwegian air
61 Post contains images EA CO AS : Yep, we can carry live nuclear weapons in our OWN airspace, thank you. (hey, SOMEONE had to make that joke!)
62 Mortyman : And if it was'nt enough with the birds in the air, we now also got Russian subs patroling off the Norwegian coast...
63 TheCol : That means they're probably sneaking around northern Canada undetected. Maybe it's time for the CAF to start regular CP-140 patrols.
64 Post contains images Scooter01 : -not to worry, they are probably only servicing the navigation-buoeys they placed here in the '60s and '70s since their GPS equipment is probably not
65 Post contains images PADSpot : Is there a sarcastic or ironic undertone in your statement?
66 Post contains images Scooter01 : -Not at all, these buoys mark the paths to their most favourite fishing-spots and are quite necessary for precise navigation in unknown and rocky wat
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