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Feasblity Of A Fish Bomb  
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Ok guys, stop laughing.

Anyway, I was thinking of mission specific weaponry that might be needed by my fan-fic air force.

Anyway some of you might remember by "Alaska Defense Forces" from a couple of years ago, where I created a fictional air force for Alaska, which in my bizzaro world voted for independence in 59 instead of statehood. I was trying to figure out a situation where a custom designed weapon might need to be employed on those 1/72 scale aircraft.

So my attention turns to the 1996 salmon war with Canada. Now in real life other then a AMHS ferry being taken hostage in Canada no actual violence occured, but I think I want to use the incident to cause a crash program to target one of the big enemys of Alaska fisheries at that time, British Columbia fish farms. These farms use large offshore pens to hold non-native salmon species, in real life there have been many instances where these fish have escaped and threatened native fish stocks. They are also roundly critized by enviromentalists and Alaska FIshermen.

Now I want to be able to hit those fish pens which are just fine mesh netting hanging from floats, without killing anybody, but wiping out the fish in the pens. That pretty much eliminates using convental bombs. I don't even know if the shock wave from a thermobaric device would be enough to get deep enough in the water to shock kill these fish. I thought about using a casing to deploy a poison such as chlorine in the water to kill the fish, but I think that it would be frowned on as chemical warefare.

So what I was think about doing was having a casing with a bunch of submunitions that would act like that ping pong ball that in in the middle of a can of Guiness. You could drop the bomb, it would open up over the pens, and then these ping pong balls would go in the water and release nitrogen or carbon dioxide in a fine mist (just like a can of Guiness) This would kill of a lot of the fish from oxgyen depletion.

Does anybody know of the USAF or Soviets have an empty bomb casing that would be able to carry these pellets?


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1698 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2864 times:

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Does anybody know of the USAF or Soviets have an empty bomb casing that would be able to carry these pellets?

Cluster bombs casings?.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7752 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2749 times:

murderer Smile

Why do't you send frogmen to liberate them.


User currently offlineNorlander From Faroe Islands, joined Sep 2007, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

How about a biological bomb? Fish farms are notorious for being ecosystems out of balance, because the fish doesn't eat all the fish feed it's given together with the high concentrations of fish "droppings" occurring over the same place. This creates a place ripe for certain bacteria and algae, which then can bloom, depriving the fish of all oxygen. So if you spray the area with high concentrations of selected bacteria, they'll bloom, the fish dies, then the bacteria die because there are no fish left. End result all is well, expect for the fish farms that are gone Smile


Longtime Lurker
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

AFAIK there are special pressure-timer fuses for conventional bombs to use them as water bombs. If you take planeload of big JDAMs, put those fuses on and place them properly in the pens yo will probably get yourself in the Guinness Book of records by making the largest fish soup ever created. Thermobaric weapons don't work under water, because you won't be able to create that explosive vapor ...

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 4):
Thermobaric weapons don't work under water, because you won't be able to create that explosive vapor ...

Still if you create a big enough shock wave some of it will be reflected in the water. I am just thinking of the stories my grandfather had about fishing at a german fish farm with hand grenades back in WWII.

The owner of the farm had some real problems with that, but wasn't in a position to argue.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 4):
AFAIK there are special pressure-timer fuses for conventional bombs to use them as water bombs

Agreed, in fact the technology is used in a lot of toilets now to determine when to shut the water to the tank off when refilling.

Quoting Norlander (Reply 3):
How about a biological bomb?

Yeah but I don't want to permantly destroy the area that and biological weapons are banned under a number of treaties.


That is why I prefer the idea of some of those inert gasses.........Actually I had a brainstorm today, but I need to confirm that CO2 is the gas given off by Alka-Seltzer. Just fill a clusterbomb casing with tablets made up of the same active ingredent that disolves in water. Set the fuse to blow it as say 75-100 feet, scattering these tablets over a area the size of the pens, and POP POP FIZZ FIZZ.......OH WHAT A RELIEF IT IS!!!

Quoting Norlander (Reply 3):
Fish farms are notorious for being ecosystems out of balance, because the fish doesn't eat all the fish feed it's given together with the high concentrations of fish "droppings" occurring over the same place. This creates a place ripe for certain bacteria and algae, which then can bloom, depriving the fish of all oxygen

That is also one of the reasons why Alaska has banned fin-fish farming, unfortunately our canadian freinds aren't so far sighted, and like I said have imported and lost from their pens Atlantic Salmon which are an invasive.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14129 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days ago) and read 2560 times:

Take an old-fashioned WW2 anti-submarine airdropped depth charge. This will definitely do the job.

Jan

[Edited 2007-10-20 01:51:48]

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
Take an old-fashioned WW2 anti-submarine airdropped depth charge. This will definitely do the job.

That would work too, the only problem I have is that you might end up with escapee's because it would destroy the pens.

Like I said they are just 1/2 mesh nets hanging down from floats.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
depth charge

That was the term I was looking for  Smile ... tztzt ... water bombs ... Pamela Anderson has got water bombs
 banghead 


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14129 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 7):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
Take an old-fashioned WW2 anti-submarine airdropped depth charge. This will definitely do the job.

That would work too, the only problem I have is that you might end up with escapee's because it would destroy the pens.

Like I said they are just 1/2 mesh nets hanging down from floats.

Depends where you drop it. Shock waves travel quite far through water (actually we currently have a problem with enviromentalists about this. Recently several dud WW2 bombs have been found off the German Baltic coast near a natural preserve. Bomb disposal decided to blow them up in situ, with small booster charges placed on the bombs by divers, rather than use a diver to defuse them in opaque water, where the diver can not see wghat he is doing. The enviromentalists complain about the range of the shock wave (the bombs were 500 pounders after all) and that it will destroy the hearing of rare whales and dolphins living in the Baltic for hundreds of kilometers around, so that they would not be able to orient or feed themselves. I wonder how the dolphins and whales survived WW2 then, where hundreds of ships got torpedoed in the Baltic or bombs were dropped all around. A solution IMO would be to blow up some smaller charges a while before the big bang to scrare the animals away from the danger zone.)

Back to the topic: You could drop the depth charges outside the pens (about 50-100 meters away) for a 100 kg charge). The shockwave should pass the nets without tearing them, but it would kill all the fish for a considerable distance (except rays and sharks, they don't have this air filled bouyancy blister, I don't know how it is called in English, inside them, though it might f*ck up their sensitive side line organs. they use these organs to detect small vibrations in the water, like from a wounded fish).

Jan


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
they don't have this air filled bouyancy blister

Your thinking of a swim bladder. I don't think Salmon have them, Pelagic species of Rockfish do, which is why they normally don't survive getting hooked on a fishing line a brought to the surface, A lot of times that bladder ends up comming out of their mouths when they get to the surface.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14129 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
I don't think Salmon have them,

All fish, except sharks and rays (those who's skeleton is made up out of cartilage) have them.

Jan


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2400 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 11):
All fish, except sharks and rays (those who's skeleton is made up out of cartilage) have them

Fishes are either Bony Fishes or Cartilage Fishes (Chondrichthyes). Bony fishes distribute to Ray-finned Fishes and Lobe-finned Fishes, where only Ray-finned Fish have a gas bladder. Lobe-finned Fishes don't have gas bladders either, so there are more classes of fish than only Chondrichthyes which don't have gas bladders. Welcome to fish.net

Jan

[Edited 2007-10-21 01:18:24]

User currently onlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2162 times:
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This thread caught my eye....

All I can say is... WTF?!  rotfl 

This has to be the most random thread ever, but I have to say, it's intruiging reading it!! Keep it up.

How about introducing a load of pike into the farm? Or freshwater sharks!  rotfl 



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4937 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2121 times:

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
I was thinking of mission specific weaponry that might be needed by my fan-fic air force.

And given the convention of calling ordnance something - when someone comes up with a safe, workable, eco-friendly "fish bomb", may I (un)humbly suggest my handle for a name?  Smile

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 12):
Welcome to fish.net

Thank you.  Smile

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 13):
Or freshwater sharks!

Now, sharks which love salmon seems like an eco-friendly solution. The quandary arises when the area teems only with sharks with no other fish left. Hopefully, they would just go away and find new haunts to feed their hunger, but heading out to open sea might be problematic for these freshwater types.  Smile



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 13):
Or freshwater sharks!

Ha! Actually these rearing pens are in salt water.

Thought of predator fish, but that would also threaten wild runs. I have a bias against pike. There are too many runs up here they have destroyed.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
may I (un)humbly suggest my handle for a name?

Doesn't the RN have a torpedo by that name already?



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4937 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2057 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 15):

Doesn't the RN have a torpedo by that name already?

An early self-propelled torpedo made in 1890 by the English engineer Robert Whitehead came to be known as the "Devil's device". The Royal Navy had the Spearfish, Tigerfish and Stingray models. Devilfish, the poker player and underworld character, is the only one of note in England with the exact nickname. However, the US Navy had the WWII submarine USS Devilfish (SS/AGSS-292) - struck from the register in 1967 and sunk as a target in 1968. Thanks, Wiki.

It could also be a quite fitting name (even if I say so myself) for the winged torpedo concept proposed for the P-8 MMA,
ironically to destroy its namesake's modern versions.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ma-sparks-winged-torpedo-idea.html

[Edited 2007-10-25 22:45:41]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently onlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2031 times:
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Quoting L-188 (Reply 15):
Thought of predator fish, but that would also threaten wild runs. I have a bias against pike. There are too many runs up here they have destroyed.

Isn't that the aim?



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1910 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
And given the convention of calling ordnance something - when someone comes up with a safe, workable, eco-friendly "fish bomb", may I (un)humbly suggest my handle for a name?

Just came up with a good name......The "FARMED ATLANTIC SALMON ELIMINATOR" or FASE for short.

And actually rather then being a bomb, I am starting to thing that a submunition dispenser similar the german MW1 or JP755 slung by British Tornados might be the way to go, downscaled to fit under an A4 Skyhawk.

You overfly the pens and dispence the Alka-seltzer. They go in the water start to bubble and saturate the water in the pens with Carbon Dioxide.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4937 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1907 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 18):
The "FARMED ATLANTIC SALMON ELIMINATOR" or FASE for short.

That will do just fine!  thumbsup 



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 19):
That will do just fine!

Hey the name is very important, Tallboy, Grand-Slam, Daisy Cutter, Paveway, Durandal, Bunker-buster MOAB and now FASE.

Can't do nothing without a cool code name.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
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