Sonic67 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3438 times:
Apparently the Russian government is working on new Levitating device seen being tested on a MI-24 Hind helicopter in the video above. Can anyone shed some light on what is going on?
Sonic67 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3416 times:
I think your right it is just freaky to see the rotors not spinning.
OlegShv From Sweden, joined Mar 2006, 683 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3227 times:
Quoting Highlander0 (Reply 1): If I remember correctly- the frame rate of the camera is a multiple of the rotor revolutions.
In scientific terms that's called aliasing (when the sampling frequency is not high enough, high frequency phenomena would often look like low frequency phenomena).
F27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1113 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3000 times:
Quoting Highlander0 (Reply 1): If I remember correctly- the frame rate of the camera is a multiple of the rotor revolutions.
if that was the case we should still see somewhat of a disc. The helicopter maneuvres in different ways, where the relative motion can never be corresponding to the framerate all the time.
Dakar From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2948 times:
Complete still rotor? I don't think so! How does it fly? Alien technology? Does it have a giant magnet inside it? If it is a still rotor why is the tail rotor moving?
Highlander0 is correct. The camera catches every blade at the exact same spot. The tail rotor, being geared higher, spins, although seen slower than normal due to the frame capture speed.
StealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5430 posts, RR: 49 Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2907 times:
Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 5): if that was the case we should still see somewhat of a disc.
Not really,
The combination of a highish "shutter" speed and a frame rate of 24fps will give you the effect shown.
At 24fps the effect shown will be visible at a rotor speed of 288rpm,at 25fps (PAL TV) or 30fps (NTSC TV) the RPM would vary a little.
I am no expert on helicopter rotor speeds but 288rpm seems entirely plausible.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
Checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 996 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2865 times:
Knoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 199 posts, RR: 21 Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2793 times:
The spooky thing is that even the shadows of the blades can be clearly seen against the fuselage.
Furthermore, the video quality (or me being tired ) does not allow me to see if there is a pitch change in the blades AoA, or even the blades moving up or down at all!
Should be the case when the helo is doing some vertical manoeuvers only neh?
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
Marcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1721 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2746 times:
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 12): So what's making all the noise on the video?
It's the cameraman making funny noises...........when you were a kid did you play with toy airplanes or toy cars?....remember making the noises of those machines when playing?....this is the exact same thing.
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
Dakar From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2722 times:
Of course, Highlander0, they would.
Think of it as a flip-style stick-figure cartoon. The figures are drawn doing motions that look very disconnected if flipped slowly, but the faster it is flipped, the more connected and "real" it looks.
Sonic67 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 290 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2608 times:
Quoting Dakar (Reply 15): Think of it as a flip-style stick-figure cartoon.
If you look close enough you can see a cable or string when the light hits just right.
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 12): So what's making all the noise on the video?
If you listen to the sound it is not the engine noise of a MI-24 Hind it has much more of a raspy growl to it. The sound is smooth closer to the sound a Eurocopter such as the Dauphine would make. It must have been daubed in later.
UH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2596 times:
Quoting Sonic67 (Reply 16): If you look close enough you can see a cable or string when the light hits just right.
Yeah... this is a video of someone using a clear string to hold up a model aircraft.... a model aircraft that has a working tail rotor and fully operating landing gear!
lol! no worries guys! I'm not saying the vid is real! I'm saying that they must have used some kind of trick, because the rotor is clearly still in the vid (hence, what we are seeing, doesn't mean that it actually happend like this)
Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 11): The spooky thing is that even the shadows of the blades can be clearly seen against the fuselage.
indeed, they must have edited the vid pretty profesionnaly. Let me underline I'm not high and did not mean to say the vid was real, just that the whole framerate story is unlikely. Another explanation must be found.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2509 times:
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Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 18): that the whole framerate story is unlikely. Another explanation must be found.
There's nothing unlikely about it at all.
Imagine you have a flipbook that shows a bicycle wheel spinning around at one revolution per second.
Now, as you're flipping through the flipbook, keep your eyes closed, and open them once per second.
Provided your timing is accurate, you'll only ever see one position of the wheel. It will appear to be stationary. That is what's happening with this video.
The framerate explanation is far more likely than the idea that someone would go to such great lengths to doctor a video like this in the hopes that people think a helicopter is magically levitating.....
UH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2486 times:
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 19): There's nothing unlikely about it at all.
Imagine you have a flipbook that shows a bicycle wheel spinning around at one revolution per second.
Now, as you're flipping through the flipbook, keep your eyes closed, and open them once per second.
Provided your timing is accurate, you'll only ever see one position of the wheel. It will appear to be stationary. That is what's happening with this video.
The framerate explanation is far more likely than the idea that someone would go to such great lengths to doctor a video like this in the hopes that people think a helicopter is magically levitating.....
2H4
Exactly.
I really cannot believe we're having this discussion!
There are plenty of videos out there that prove this concept. Hell, how many private pilots post videos looking out the front of their Cessna, and the main propeller appears to be at a dead stand still?? I'm just amazed that some people rather believe this was a giant hokes! That someone would create a model aircraft with a working tail rotor, and fully operating landing gear... hang it from a string.... and video tape it!!!
Yes, and the same person who pulled this stunt, also shot Kennedy from the grassy knoll, blew up the WTC with C4, and has the Roswell spaceship in his garage!!!
Check this video out: the plane propellers appear to be completely stopped. It's the same damn concept.
People this is not a conspiracy! It's a well known event. No one "faked" this video! Put the tinfoil hats away!
Moo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3596 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2485 times:
Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 18): indeed, they must have edited the vid pretty profesionnaly. Let me underline I'm not high and did not mean to say the vid was real, just that the whole framerate story is unlikely. Another explanation must be found.
Its not hard to do if you know your way around cameras - it would take a few minutes experimentation with the framerate, and you would have the above video as a result.
Ferrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2477 times:
Can't believe you guys are so taken up with the helicopter video. ...Check out the two fishermen and the Catalina in the video supplied by SONIC67 at reply2. ...It's 10 times as much fun" ...I've watched it three times already.
F27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1113 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2401 times:
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 19): There's nothing unlikely about it at all.
Imagine you have a flipbook that shows a bicycle wheel spinning around at one revolution per second.
Now, as you're flipping through the flipbook, keep your eyes closed, and open them once per second.
Provided your timing is accurate, you'll only ever see one position of the wheel. It will appear to be stationary. That is what's happening with this video.
The framerate explanation is far more likely than the idea that someone would go to such great lengths to doctor a video like this in the hopes that people think a helicopter is magically levitating.....
2H4
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 20): There are plenty of videos out there that prove this concept. Hell, how many private pilots post videos looking out the front of their Cessna, and the main propeller appears to be at a dead stand still?? I'm just amazed that some people rather believe this was a giant hokes! That someone would create a model aircraft with a working tail rotor, and fully operating landing gear... hang it from a string.... and video tape it!!!
my point is, those examples are 2D, this vid here is a chopper rotating, generating all kinds of relative motions for the observer (camera) which would make it difficult to exactly match it with the framerate, as it would have to vary.
Nevertheless, the other vid you posted made me think if my assumption is in fact true.
Rwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1989 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2391 times:
Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 23): my point is, those examples are 2D, this vid here is a chopper rotating, generating all kinds of relative motions for the observer (camera) which would make it difficult to exactly match it with the framerate, as it would have to vary.
Larger helicopters essentially all have mechanical systems for maintaining a constant rotor RPM under normal conditions, and those track the nominal "100%" RPM quite closely. Smaller helicopters require the pilot to fiddle with the throttle to maintain rotor RPM as the other flight controls are manipulated.
The trick is finding a helicopter with a rotor RPM that's a nice multiple of your frame rate (or conversely adjusting your frame rate appropriately - which can be done on the better camcorders). The CH-47, for example, runs the rotors at 225rpm, which doesn't match standard frame rates very well, so you'd have to fiddle at the camera end pretty hard. A 288rpm rotor would match a 24fps video well, 250rpm would match 25/50fps, 300rpm 30/60fps (and other combinations are possible as well, especially as the rotor or propeller gets larger or smaller).
25 David L: While I agree in principle, I'm not sure many cameras will let you adjust the frame rate. I suspect it's just a case of the rotor RPM being "just rig
26 F27Friendship: my point is, this would apply when you film the rotor directly from above or below. In this case there are several angles and the helicopter is movin
27 PC12Fan: I think you are putting waaaay to much thought into this. Just remember the old saying: the most simple explanation is the most logical one.
28 2H4: This vid here is 2D, as well. It's a series of images represented on a flat screen. That's probably why the main rotor position changes very slightly
29 David L: No it wouldn't. Each part of the blade makes the same percentage of a revolution in a given time. The tip of the blade rotates at exactly the same RP
30 F27Friendship: Sorry, I'm trained not to do that you don't understand what I mean. The vid on the screen is 2D yes, but it;s a transformation of a 3D event happenin
31 David L: Damn! I went out shortly after I posted that and alomost immediately realised I'd typed "sec" when I meant "rev". I wish you would because I don't se
32 Fumanchewd: Its all trick photography. Of course the only one who can levitate aircraft is Bob Hoover. ;-}
33 Ferrypilot: That eight point slow roll at the start looks very cool. But there's a point a bit later in that landing trick and in the second contact where he sli
34 F27Friendship: what a great guy! This is fantastic! There's a bunch of people I gotta show this vid! Right, below you find a rather simplified picture of what I mea
36 David L: That's entirely down to shutter speed. I'm forever forgetting to slow the shutter when photographing helicopters and props. The result is an unpleasi
37 F27Friendship: it does, because due to the changing relative angular velocity, blade 1 at point X, shows up at point Y after the helicopter has moved around it's ax
38 David L: Blur can only be controlled by shutter speed. i.e. how much the tip of the blade moves while the shutter is open. If the shutter is only open long en
39 2H4: Despite what you may want to believe, a known, proven, and common technical occurrence is far more likely than your elaborate conspiracy theory... 2H
40 Dakar: +1 Why is it so difficult to believe? Why is F27Friendship the only one who is skeptical?
41 David L: I admit I'm really only assuming a camcorder could have a fast enough shutter speed in those lighting conditions and if someone can show that it's no
42 Ferrypilot: I don't doubt he had pulled that trick off cleanly on previous occasions. I am just saying that on that occasion he didn't pull it off so well as the
43 F27Friendship: That could be an explanation as well. I have no knowledge at all about camera's etc. Just was thinking over in my head what could have happened else,
44 Rwessel: But our whole point is that this is a fundamental part of the way cameras take pictures and record movies. And the effect happens all the time, somet
45 F27Friendship: It's just dynamics and mathematics I'm applying; it's not alternative, it's how the world is explained in general terms. I appreciate your long and e
46 Rwessel: While true, it's not really a factor. The largest apparent motion will be from directly above of below the rotor disk. From any other angle, the appa
47 F27Friendship: sure it will be, but if it's in a slightly different position, placing those pictures after each other will produce a film with a blade moving back a
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