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Future Usaf Jet Trainer  
User currently offlineN74JW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4132 times:

Hello - Has anyone a thought on what type will replace the USAF's T-38 fleet, if and when they start falling out of the sky?

They cannot fly forever ...

I think the KAI T-50 and the Hawk are the main contenders.

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4105 times:



Quoting N74JW (Thread starter):
They cannot fly forever ...

They are just now receiving the "C-Update" and thus they must have time left in them.

Quoting N74JW (Thread starter):
I think the KAI T-50 and the Hawk are the main contenders.

Given the number that the USAF requires and the relative simplicity of a training aircraft, it shouldn't be a problem to make a custom design a viable approach. It does not need to be off the shelf.

But to enhance the completeness of your list: EADS offers the HEAT (High Energy Advanced Trainer HEAT) http://www.eads.net/1024/de/businet/...s/training_aircraft/heat/heat.html

Still a concept though, but once all those Alpha Jets wear out it could become reality.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4001 times:



Quoting PADSpot (Reply 1):
But to enhance the completeness of your list: EADS offers the HEAT (High Energy Advanced Trainer HEAT) http://www.eads.net/1024/de/businet/...s/training_aircraft/heat/heat.html

Is that the same as the MAKO ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3990 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 2):
Is that the same as the MAKO ?

Looks like it, yes.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mako/


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4837 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

Considering that the UAE is about to select a winner for its advanced jet trainer competition and that EADS had halted the MAKO's development, KAI/LM's T-50 Golden Eagle and ATG/IAI's Javelin Mk 3 (military trainer version) have a headstart here.....

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"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineF27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3942 times:



Quoting PADSpot (Reply 1):
But to enhance the completeness of your list: EADS offers the HEAT (High Energy Advanced Trainer HEAT) http://www.eads.net/1024/de/businet/...s/training_aircraft/heat/heat.html

Still a concept though, but once all those Alpha Jets wear out it could become reality.

I'm afraid MAKO will never fly..


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3912 times:



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 5):
I'm afraid MAKO will never fly..

You care to elaborate?


User currently offlineF27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3909 times:



Quoting PADSpot (Reply 6):
You care to elaborate?

As said, EADS put the project in the fridge. Italy bailed out. Germany has it's training in the US now. Don't know what France is up to. Not that it's a bad design. Who knows, maybe in a few years European countries will place a demand for it.


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3887 times:



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 7):
Germany has it's training in the US now.

Germany had its training in the US since the sixties and I think Germany and Italy both extended participation in ENJJPT until 2015 or so. But that does effectively mean that they depend on T-38s (38 T-38s are owned by Germany, but wear US markings). In case of the T-37 the German owned frames will be/are phased out with the American owned ones and training will continue on American owned T-6 Texan II, without that there is much talk about it ... looks like a cheap solution for us.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3808 times:

Is the BAe Hawk (whatever version it's up to now) still considered State of the Art and could a new version of that be considered for this requirement?

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3796 times:



Quoting PADSpot (Reply 8):
In case of the T-37 the German owned frames will be/are phased out with the American owned ones and training will continue on American owned T-6 Texan II, without that there is much talk about it ... looks like a cheap solution for us.

Are there any plans to acquire own T-6 Texan IIs ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3787 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
Are there any plans to acquire own T-6 Texan IIs ?

No, don't think so. According to a Luftwaffe pilot even before it was unrecognizable for the students whether they sit in an German or US T-37. They were maintained by Americans, wore the same American markings, received the same updates over time but were flown by student from all nations which participated in ENJJPT. Just from the books you could see which frame was bought by German money in the 60s and which by American money. Same for the T-38. There are no plans to get own T-6 Texan II because Germany pays the same money for each pilot training as the other nations do and which also don't contribute airplanes. Hence financially ENJJPT is a very reasonable institution, with the nice side-effect that future pilots learn proper English. That would be more difficult if we did training at home.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3751 times:

I think the T-45 Goshawk is a good contender for a new AF advanded jet platform. It's a sturdy airframe, granted not supersonic, but still well suited for the training environment. You won't be doing carrier quals in it but it can haul a respectable load of 25-lbs blue practice bombs.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3742 times:



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 12):
I think the T-45 Goshawk is a good contender for a new AF advanded jet platform. It's a sturdy airframe, granted not supersonic, but still well suited for the training environment. You won't be doing carrier quals in it but it can haul a respectable load of 25-lbs blue practice bombs.

DeltaGuy

I don't know that the Air Force even considers supersonic capability a necessity in their trainers any more. Most countries seem to be satisfied with an airplane that has high subsonic speed. What matters too is handling characteristics that're close to what the new pilot will encounter when he gets into a combat squadron. And versatility counts; good range for cross country nav' training, a respectable armament load for weapons delivery training. Low cost of operation and very good maintainability are musts. The Hawk seems to excell in all of these areas. And since we already use the airplane in Navy training squadrons, I don't see where there'd be a big "buy American" cry to get into the way. But then, you never know with politicians.  Smile



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4837 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

Not so good news for the Javelin.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...logy-lays-off-javelin-workers.html

Quote:
"The developer of the Javelin personal jet has laid off its staff after investment resources dried up.

'Everybody is on mandatory holiday for the rest of the week,' Aviation Technology Group says. 'The company is awaiting funding. It's not good news for ATG. Maybe they'll come up with something and we'll all go back to work, or maybe they won't'."


This suggests that future prospects for a military trainer are dim - unless a rich country's air force steps forward to finance the Mk 20 and Mk 30 development.

Maybe Aermacchi's M-346 could pick up the slack?

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[Edited 2007-11-28 12:11:45]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineKevinSmith From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3674 times:

IMHO I do not believe that the USAF will select any aircraft that does not have two engines to replace the T-38. I would be different if the T-37 was still the main trainer. However since it is on it's way out and being replaced by the single engine T-6, it would make sense to me to expose the student pilots to multi-engine operations before getting to the operational aircraft. I've often wondered why the Navy ordered the T-45 for its carrier pilots when none of the follow on aircraft are single engine.

[Edited 2007-11-28 15:01:00]

[Edited 2007-11-28 15:01:53]

User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3575 times:



Quoting KevinSmith (Reply 15):
I've often wondered why the Navy ordered the T-45 for its carrier pilots when none of the follow on aircraft are single engine.

Well they operated the TA-4J for years right? Alot of these jets are centerline thrust, it's the Hoover guys that had the real beef I spose.

Back in the day, you had F-8's, A-4's, A-7's, etc, all single engine.

DeltaGuy


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