Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2262 times:
The timing of this is horrible since it gives ammunition to those in the U.S. who advocate a "home grown" solution for the KC-X. Just more mud to fling....
[Edited 2007-12-03 16:08:02]
[Edited 2007-12-03 16:08:18]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 39 Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2223 times:
Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter): The timing of this is horrible since it gives ammunition to those in the U.S. who advocate a "home grown" solution for the KC-X. Just more mud to fling....
I'm not sure how this will affect anything. This speaks more to problems in India and EADS Indian ops than anything else.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2094 times:
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 1): I'm not sure how this will affect anything. This speaks more to problems in India and EADS Indian ops than anything else.
That's because you're looking at it rationally.
View it through the prism of the utterly toxic politics we have here. Either side will crawl through ____ to gain even a momentary advantage. If the opportunity arises to link EADS to a "scandal" somewhere, no matter how tenuous, some detractor will seize the opportunity. Of course, that's how my mind works, but. . . .
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11714 posts, RR: 52 Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2017 times:
Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter): The timing of this is horrible since it gives ammunition to those in the U.S. who advocate a "home grown" solution for the KC-X. Just more mud to fling....
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 2): Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 1):
I'm not sure how this will affect anything. This speaks more to problems in India and EADS Indian ops than anything else.
That's because you're looking at it rationally.
View it through the prism of the utterly toxic politics we have here. Either side will crawl through ____ to gain even a momentary advantage. If the opportunity arises to link EADS to a "scandal" somewhere, no matter how tenuous, some detractor will seize the opportunity. Of course, that's how my mind works, but. . . .
No, you guys are not looking at this rationally at all.........
RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4181 posts, RR: 30 Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2010 times:
Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter): The timing of this is horrible since it gives ammunition to those in the U.S. who advocate a "home grown" solution for the KC-X. Just more mud to fling....
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 1): I'm not sure how this will affect anything. This speaks more to problems in India and EADS Indian ops than anything else.
Unfortunately, it points to a consistent pattern. One that involves undue influence in order to obtain a sales advantage. It appears that too often "If you can't beat 'em then bribe 'em" is de rigeur for critical sales campaigns. Of course, that's not to say other companies haven't been tainted by such lapses in judgment, but it certainly crimps a perception some seem to have that Boeing is the bad guy and EADS is without its own scandals.
And just because it was EADS' Indian ops doesn't mean squat. One could just as easily argue that it was Boeing IDS that was involved in the previous and sordid tanker bid.
CTR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2000 times:
A littile more detail on smell wafting from the India-Eurocopter deal:
"The Bell-407 dropped out last year after the machine it sent for evaluation could not perform a three-axis vector, an essential requirement for flying in areas like the Siachen Glacier in Jammu and Kashmir.
The three-axis vector enables the helicopter perform a 'U' like manoeuvre to navigate adverse weather conditions in mountainous areas.
When this deficiency was pointed out to the manufacturers, the official said, the company offered to either show a video of the helicopter performing a similar manoeuvre in Canada or to fly out Indian officials to witness it in person.
The defence ministry shot this down, saying this was not the way it conducted its business.
Now, it emerges, special consideration was shown to Eurocopter as what it fielded was not the AS550 C3 Fennec military version but the AS350 B3 Ecureil civilian variant."
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1933 times:
This is interesting...
Quote: Queried how the issue of the helicopter's variant had emerged only now, the official said: 'The process goes through various stages. Perhaps it is now at a stage where the officials are senior enough to not only study the evaluation report but also examine which machine had been evaluated.'
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Quote: A government official, who did not wish to be named, had said earlier that New Delhi was probing alleged links between an army general and Indian agents of Eurocopter.
India banned middlemen in military deals following allegations of bribery in a multi-billion dollar artillery deal in the 1980s with then-Swedish firm Bofors. That scandal led to the downfall of the government of then-premier Rajiv Gandhi.
Eurocopter late on Wednesday denied Indian media allegations about the involvement of middlemen in the project.
"EADS and Eurocopter are keen on insisting that both companies fully comply with the very strict French and European regulations on these issues," Eurocopter said in a statement.
It added that it "was still confident to sign the contract with the Indian Ministry of Defence."
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Wvsuperhornet From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 516 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1898 times:
It not superising there have been alot of Indian Commanders wanting a shot at buying the Apache's helicopters anyway. I doubt it will effect anything other than giving Boeing a better shot at the bid.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 1740 times:
Quote: NEW DELHI (AFP)  France's foreign minister admitted that a deal for European aerospace giant EADS' unit Eurocopter to supply 197 helicopters to the Indian army had been officially cancelled.
Bernard Kouchner said he was "not satisfied" with the troubles in the 600 million dollar deal, but asserted Eurocopter was still best placed to win a new tender.
The Indian defence ministry said on December 6 that Eurocopter's successful tender for the helicopters had been scrapped, although Eurocopter and the French embassy here contested the validity of the announcement.
The ministry has not said publicly why the deal was scrapped, but senior defence sources and press reports have alleged that Eurocopter used a local go-between despite an Indian ban on the use of middlemen in defence deals.
Quote: 'There has been no official announcement of the cancellation,' Eurocopter vice president Norbert Ducrot told reporters in New Delhi. 'We have no official information.'
'We are still talking with the Defence Ministry,' Ducrot said. 'We are at the price negotiation stage.'
'We have not received any confirmation of a cancellation,' said Michel Boivin, economic advisor to the French embassy in India.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Quote: An Indian court on Dec. 20 ordered police to complete a probe into charges that a bribe was paid in a multibillion-dollar deal to buy Scorpene submarines from a French defense firm.
The Delhi High Court told the Central Bureau of Investigation to complete its inquiry within three months and report back to a two-judge bench.
The judges also told the CBI to press criminal charges against "accused persons" if it could establish that an offence had been committed in the 2.4 billion-euro ($3 billion) deal.
"In case CBI decides to close the case after the inquiry, then it will have to satisfy the court that there was no evidence of kickbacks involved in the deal," Judges T. S. Thakur and Veena Birbal said.
The order came a month after an Indian pressure group  the Centre for Public Interest Litigation  alleged that New Delhi was shielding Indian middlemen who took commissions from French defense giant Thales, which owns Armaris, to clinch the deal. . .
Earlier this month, India said it was scrapping a $600 million deal to buy 197 military helicopters from EADS after allegations of corruption in the bidding process.
India banned middlemen in military deals following charges of bribery in a multibillion-dollar artillery deal in the 1980s with Swedish firm Bofors.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1628 times:
Polictics out here always has some problems for Deals
The Question is Hopefully this is not another Plitical ploy to reintroduce another Tender Process.
regds
MEL
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11714 posts, RR: 52 Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1610 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11): Polictics out here always has some problems for Deals
The Question is Hopefully this is not another Plitical ploy to reintroduce another Tender Process.
regds
MEL
You still have a better and more open process in big defense contracts. Her in the good 'ol (boy) system we have in the US, the loser in a compitition can appeal the decision, thus tieing up the contract for years.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1552 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12): Her in the good 'ol (boy) system we have in the US, the loser in a compitition can appeal the decision, thus tieing up the contract for years.
These delays then make the project not worth it after all.
regds
MEL
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, 
From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
