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180 F-15s May Be Permanently Grounded  
User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2799 times:

Reading a newspaper article yesterday, it said the F-15E has been cleared to fly and many of the other F-15s have been also declared airworthy but up to 180 other F-15s may not ever fly again. No details as to whether these are F-15A and B models or if there're some C and D models. Does anyone have better information on this? The article didn't quote a source.


Dare to dream; dream big!
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2794 times:



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Thread starter):
up to 180 other F-15s may not ever fly again.

-180 F-15's = + ? F-22's?


User currently offlineKevinSmith From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2760 times:

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123081524

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2704 times:

Of all this, I find this the most chilling statement.

"Additionally, approximately 40 percent of inspected aircraft have at least one longeron that does not meet blueprint specifications."

What were the USAF factory inspectors at MacD doing when these airplanes were built?


User currently offlineMichlis From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 737 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2697 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
What were the USAF factory inspectors at MacD doing when these airplanes were built?

Possibly  yawn   zzz  or  coffee  or worse  covereyes  and  crossfingers  that nothing would happen.



If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2674 times:



Quoting KevinSmith (Reply 2):
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123081524

It's interesting the article says nothing about permanent grounding of any of the airplanes.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

I saw this segment on CNN while at the airport today, they interviewed a top ranking General who was basically saying there were a large number of F-15's that would no longe be returning to the air - confirmed. Either the USAF bys more F-22's or they get Boeing to cut them a deal on a lot of F/A-18E's to replace them because that is a huge gap to our national security!

Another good article on the topic:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...589.story?coll=la-headlines-nation


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5714 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2460 times:
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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
"Additionally, approximately 40 percent of inspected aircraft have at least one longeron that does not meet blueprint specifications."

What were the USAF factory inspectors at MacD doing when these airplanes were built?

I would consider this a concern as well but does this mean they never met specifications?
Is it not possible that due to corrosion, fatigue even improper modification or repair they NO LONGER meet specifications?



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineBuss61 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

I also saw the CNN broadcast as well, and one of the concerns was that most of the F-15 models that were grounded were used primarily for homeland security and there would be no aircraft available in the event of hijacked airliners etc. why does that put such a strain on the F-16's which were designed as a multi role aircraft.


Any Time Baby!!!
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4364 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

I'd be curious to know what the average hours are on the permanently grounded airframes; in particular the newest-built ones that are permanently grounded. In other words, are the permanently grounded birds high-time (relatively speaking) airframes? Have they exceeded their warranted service life per the block-build contract or are they still within the specified service life?


My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2414 times:



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
Either the USAF bys more F-22's or they get Boeing to cut them a deal on a lot of F/A-18E's to replace them because that is a huge gap to our national security!

The F/A=18E would be such a waste of money and resources for the air force, They should order more F-22's instead. That will lower the costs because there will be for Raptors to spread the sunk developments costs over.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 9):
I'd be curious to know what the average hours are on the permanently grounded airframes; in particular the newest-built ones that are permanently grounded

I would like to know if there is any rhyme or reason on the lot numbers those airplane where from.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBuss61 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10)
The F/A=18E would be such a waste of money and resources for the air force, They should order more F-22's instead. That will lower the costs because there will be for Raptors to spread the sunk developments costs over.

Congress has already scaled back the number of F-22's that the air force wants due to its price tag.

there is an article about the F-15 structural problem at www.globalsecurity.org



Any Time Baby!!!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2387 times:



Quoting Buss61 (Reply 11):
Congress has already scaled back the number of F-22's that the air force wants due to its price tag.

That's why it is so expensive, congress keeps cutting the buy.

You have a sunk cost to cover to develop the aircraft and the more frames you buy the smaller the amount of that sunk cost has to be allocated to each produced airplane.

Using way oversimplied math.

Say you spend, 1,000,000,000 to develop that aiplane, if you spread the costs over 1000 airframes, the development costs will be 1 million a frame. If you only buy 100 airframes, you have to include 10 million dollars in the price of each frame to pay off the development costs.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2387 times:
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Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
The F/A=18E would be such a waste of money and resources for the air force, They should order more F-22's instead. That will lower the costs because there will be for Raptors to spread the sunk developments costs over.

Unless the increase in order size reduces the cost of the units already planned for purchase, it will not lower the costs one bit. It will spread the sunk costs out amongst more airframes, but that changes nothing.


User currently offlineBuss61 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

Aside from costs, if the F-22 is as good as they say it is, then we want need mass quantites of the aircraft. After all that was the goal of the project any way. The entire military is going to a simplified approach that we can make one plane do the job of two or three (F-35,Superhornet)


Any Time Baby!!!
User currently offlineKevinSmith From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2365 times:



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
they get Boeing to cut them a deal on a lot of F/A-18E's to replace them because that is a huge gap to our national security!

The Rhionos aren't the AA thoroughbreds the 15Cs are. F-22 are the better choice.


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4364 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2360 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
The F/A=18E would be such a waste of money and resources for the air force,

 checkmark 

As much as I love the Superbug, a USAF purchase is not going to be as simple as it may seem. As a first-time purchaser, the USAF is going to have to expend exorbitant money and resources putting in the infrastructure to support the birds. The fly-away cost is going to be a lot higher, IMO, than what the USN or USMC pays for the planes.

(Will they even accept the standard airframe or require modifications to convert them to boom refueling instead of the standard drogue?)



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineSEAchaz From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2339 times:

Here's the CNN story:
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/...01/10/mcintyre.us.f15.grounded.cnn


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2185 times:



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
Either the USAF bys more F-22's or they get Boeing to cut them a deal on a lot of F/A-18E's to replace them because that is a huge gap to our national security!

That will be like replacing your Corvette with a Chevy Vega

Quoting Buss61 (Reply 11):
Congress has already scaled back the number of F-22's that the air force wants due to its price tag.

Now Congress will (finally) have to make a decision, won't they.


User currently offlineBuss61 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2141 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Now Congress will (finally) have to make a decision, won't they.

I guess they will...



Any Time Baby!!!
User currently offlineMichlis From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 737 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2124 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Now Congress will (finally) have to make a decision, won't they.

Don't hold your breath...especially if the extra money for the extra F-22s would mean depriving some of our illustrious representatives of their pork.  box 



If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4881 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2124 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
Either the USAF bys more F-22's or they get Boeing to cut them a deal on a lot of F/A-18E's to replace them because that is a huge gap to our national security!

The F/A=18E would be such a waste of money and resources for the air force,

Better yet, maybe the USAF should call Boeing on its past offer of F-15E+ Super Eagles - by having them guarantee the $59M price a pop! But then again, that will be counterproductive to the USAF's real goal.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
That will be like replacing your Corvette with a Chevy Vega

At least with the Super Eagle, it would be like a Hemi.  Wink

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):

Now Congress will (finally) have to make a decision, won't they.

Considering this is an election year, that decision would be based upon the permutations of millions of reasons.  Smile



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineKevinSmith From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2090 times:



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 21):
Better yet, maybe the USAF should call Boeing on its past offer of F-15E+ Super Eagles - by having them guarantee the $59M price a pop! But then again, that will be counterproductive to the USAF's real goal.

I like the way you think.


User currently offlineAGC525 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2012 times:

Jeeze, that General isn;t a PR guy. He needs to calm down.


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