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SAAB, Denel In Talks With Embraer (C-390)  
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14422 times:

"State-owned defence industrial group DENEL CEO Shaun Liebenberg has revealed that the company is engaged in discussions with Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer for risk-sharing partnership in EMBRAER’s new military transport aircraft project, the C-390.

The discussions involve the DENEL group, DENEL’s subsidiary company, DENEL SAAB Aerostructures and the Swedish SAAB group. (DENEl SAAB Aerostructures is currently 80% owned by DENEL with the remaining 20% held by SAAB.)

These three companies are acting as a team in the discussions with the Brazilian group."

More here:
http://www.defesanet.com.br/emb1/c390_za_e.htm


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14346 times:

They would have to complete their discussions soon to catch up with Kawasaki's C-X and the Indo-Russian MTA.....

http://www.mod.go.jp/trdi/topics/img/RO_PC2.jpg

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...review-on-multirole-transport.html



http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_MRTA_Irkut-HAL_Takeoff_Concept_lg.jpg



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14287 times:



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 1):
They would have to complete their discussions soon to catch up with Kawasaki's C-X and the Indo-Russian MTA.....

I thought Japan didn't export military equipment? As for the Indo-Russian MTA, it could be a good competitor, as it wouldn't depend as much on U.S./Western technology because of political reasons.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13044 posts, RR: 78
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14278 times:

Indeed PPVRA, Japan's Constitution is very clear on military exports, they don't do it.
If it is wondered why in this case they go to the trouble and cost of making home grown designs for that very limited market, I suspect it's about having an aerospace sector capable of more than just licence building foreign types, raising the capability that can feed through into civil projects.

This new C-390 is certainly a bold move, unexpected until recently too.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14245 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 3):
If it is wondered why in this case they go to the trouble and cost of making home grown designs for that very limited market, I suspect it's about having an aerospace sector capable of more than just licence building foreign types, raising the capability that can feed through into civil projects.

National pride probably plays a part as well.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14217 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...e-on-embraers-c-390-transport.html

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 2):

I thought Japan didn't export military equipment?



Quoting GDB (Reply 3):
Indeed PPVRA, Japan's Constitution is very clear on military exports, they don't do it.

Remember that Kawasaki was planning an even more capable 37-ton commercial version for the end of this decade. How difficult would it be for its buyers to switch it to military applications after delivery if they see the need? Doubt Kawasaki would intentionally hurt the plane's chances in the market with the sales contracts restricting the ways their customers could use those - as I also doubt that huge business conglomerate being very fastidious about who is a genuine commercial customer. Nor do I expect their politicians to get in the way of a lucrative export transaction.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-freighter-from-c-x-airlifter.html

Quote:
"Japan's Kawasaki Heavy Industries (KHI) plans to manufacture a commercial freighter derivative of its military C-X airlifter, potentially pitching it into competition against its US partner Boeing. KHI's aerospace division confirms that although its first priority is to complete the military aircraft, work on a commercial version is planned towards the end of this decade.

The C-X is a medium-sized high-wing military transport aircraft equipped with a rear-loading ramp and powered by General Electric CF6-80C2 engines. It is being developed to replace Japan's ageing fleet of Kawasaki C-1 and Lockheed Martin C-130 airlifter. The military version has a payload of 26t, which will increase to about 37t for the commercial model."


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ake-commercial-cargo-aircraft.html

Good for Embraer that there are still issues with the C-X and work on the variant won't be started till at least 2010.

[Edited 2008-01-18 21:53:28]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 14156 times:

Everybody is jumping into the enormous C130 / An-12 20,000 kg (44,000 lb) replacement market.

Embraer tested the water (market) for the C-390 a year and got big "yeah do me xty quick" in return.

They are working hard on it since then, launch seems a formality..


source: http://sistemadearmas.sites.uol.com.br/ca/macx01c390.html

The wings / engines / systems should be from the E190, as well as other components.


User currently offlineF27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 14092 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
The wings / engines / systems should be from the E190, as well as other components.

please note that this will be a high-wing configuration other than the E190, which generates rather different loadcases. They certainly will not be able to put the wings of the E190 straight on it.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 14075 times:



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 5):

Remember that Kawasaki was planning an even more capable 37-ton commercial version for the end of this decade. How difficult would it be for its buyers to switch it to military applications after delivery if they see the need? Doubt Kawasaki would intentionally hurt the plane's chances in the market with the sales contracts restricting the ways their customers could use those - as I also doubt that huge business conglomerate being very fastidious about who is a genuine commercial customer. Nor do I expect their politicians to get in the way of a lucrative export transaction.

The question is - would Japan allow parts replacement export if the aircraft is being used for military purposes? That's a likely no IMO, and also a risk that air forces world wide might not be willing to take. They could sell it for commercial purposes but if it is converted, then it might become an issue and the flow of parts come to a halt.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
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