EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9049 times:
In the past, the Luftwaffe has ordered American airplanes. Examples include the F-84F, RF-84F, F-4F and other non-combat types. There's no reason to believe the Luftwaffe wouldn't buy an American airplane if it fits their needs better than anything else that's available and the price is right.
On the flip side, strong confidence in the European aircraft manufacturers and better airplanes from those sources makes buying European a smart thing to do. Typhoon is an outstanding fighter and there's really little need to buy the F-22.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9038 times:
It seem to me the JSF is a best in class aircraft but I don't see a place directly in the Luftwaffe for it. Then again the large Tornado fleet needs to be replaced by (probably, likely) a twin engined, stealth, long range, 2 crew, air-ground attack aircraft, with long range, buddy refuelling capability and a of lot a sensors for typical regional crisis operations, a bit F111 / Su-32 like. It seems the USAF is looking for similar aircraft and they are not the only ones, so who knows, a joint project?
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6344 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9018 times:
Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter): Could it be Possible that the Luftwaffe orders A/Cs like the F22 ? Of American Production , or just A/Cs of EADS ?
Well, the Luftwaffe looks to be buying a batch of Global Hawks. They may also be a P-8 customer (though they could just as easily buy the Airbus MRA.) There has also been on-again-off-again talks of them buying or leasing C-17s.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
Could it be Possible that the Luftwaffe orders A/Cs like the F22 ? Of American Production , or just A/Cs of EADS ?
They seem to be pretty reluctant to buy American aircraft, an European solution is prefered most of the time. They did that back with the Eurofighter athough the F-15 and F 18 were evaluated. The F-16 was never an option because of its single engine and after the F 104 accidents the Luftwaffe has had (don´t know if this is still valid) a twin engine only policy.
As the Eurofighter will likely be the only manned aircraft that the Luftwaffe will operate in the near future only Cargo and Helicopters as well as UAVs seem to be possible to join the Luftwaffe´s fleet of aircraft.
The JSF was once brought in as an option for the Navy Tornados as one requirement for the next Navy fighter was the ability to land on carrier decks from allies and EF would not be able to do that. Since the Navy has gotten rid of its jets this will also not happen but the EF will get air-to-sea weapons instead.
As a new cargo aircraft they went for the A400M and did not order the C17 or C130J. They also did not lease them as an interim solution but went for leased Antonovs instead. As they were looking into new VIP aircraft they choose the Bombardier over the Global Express.
Helicopters they were interested in the CH 53K but considerd it too small and are looking now for a new build design by Eurocopter or an advanced Mil 26.
So only UAVs will be based on US technology like the Euro/Global Hawk (Global Hawk is considered as RECCE Tornado replacement) and the Predator will likely be acquired as it was said a couple of time in the media.
Another option in a decade or so might be the P8 if the second hand P3 orions acquired a few years ago will get old.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4600 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8610 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 3): Then again the large Tornado fleet needs to be replaced by (probably, likely) a twin engined, stealth, long range, 2 crew, air-ground attack aircraft, with long range, buddy refuelling capability and a of lot a sensors for typical regional crisis operations,
Quote: "To be available circa 2024, the sixth generation aircraft would feature a combat radius of more than 1,000 miles and stealth against a much wider spectrum of radars.
For Boeing, the real discriminators are going to be extended range (1,000-1,500 miles), a small radar signature against low-frequency radars, expanded awareness through connections with the network, and the ability to carry a number of bombs internally."
Of course, this could be nothing more than a Boeing spin to get countries to buy an updated Super Bug.
For convenience, they may buy American surveillance platforms. Or they might go for variants of these.....
Although developing one for their exclusive use might be cost prohibitive.
PADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8488 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 12): it's a Global Hawk with European (not necessarily EADS) sensors.
The Eurohawk is a joint venture between NorthropGrumman and EADS and will necessarily carry EADS sensors. EADS however may contract some sensors out to Thales, BAe, STN Atlas or some Italian company who have a much longer history of making sensors, but the final sensors will sponsored and approved by EADS.
From what could be read from reliable sources the reason for the joint venture here is not to keep the money in Europe as usual, but to make those sensors available in the first place. The sensors that Luftwaffe wants would probably never make it through US export restrictions just like a full-scale APG-77 would never make it to export for instance.
Apart from that I can't hear this Euro bullshit-designations anymore. What next? Euro-toilet paper? A couple of weeks ago I went to Prague by road to visit a friend and once I passed the Czech border there was a sign that read "Euro-Love". I knew there is French, Greek and Russian Love, but what is Euro-Love supposed to be? ... People are going over board with that Euro-bullshit. Why can't they just buy an empty B-model GlobalHawk, put their owner sensors on it and leave it by that?
Wvsuperhornet From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 516 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8415 times:
I personally dont see the FA-22 in europes future is too much of an aircraft that you dont need when you have the euor-fighter that other than stealth and air to ground can cover. If the F-35 should ever be developed then maybe a few would purchase it to go along with the euro-fighter at low numbers like the british, but I would have to agree that I see europe going to more of an un-manned aircraft as a mix.
Checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1051 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8273 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 15): Quoting Checksixx (Reply 11):
I think your confused. Bombardier is the manufacturer of the Global Express.
Sorry I meant the they chose Global Express over the Gulfstream.
No worries...I only pointed that out so you'd correct yourself...I wanted to know what they chose. So...any reason they opted out of Gulfstream? I'm guessing the larger cabin (I think) on the Global....
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6992 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8205 times:
Quoting Checksixx (Reply 18): No worries...I only pointed that out so you'd correct yourself...I wanted to know what they chose. So...any reason they opted out of Gulfstream? I'm guessing the larger cabin (I think) on the Global....
They currently have the Challenger that will be replaced by the Global so this might be an option also the maintenance will be done by Lufthansa Technik (which has a lot of experience with Bombardier) and Bombardier in Gemany so this might have influenced the decision.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
PADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8102 times:
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 20):
I doubt the P8 will be seriously considered, as Airbus is offering something based on the A320 family.
As the German Navy has practically retreated from armed naval and anti-sub reconnaissance I doubt it will be either of the two, but an UAV. Something one category larger than the RQ-4B, probably. Currently on the P-3C weapon delivery is not trained anymore.
Today the only area where US technology still enjoys a large market share in German defense spendings are missile systems. Many of them (TOW, Harpoon, Stinger, SeaSparrow, AMRAAM and Sidewinder) will be replaced within the next 5-10 years, but PATRIOT/MEADS, GMRLS, SM-2ER, ESSM and RAM (if you count it as US technology) are there to stay. As Germany participated heavily in the development of those missile systems (except SM-2ER), it seems to be part of the political agenda to maintain close ties in this field (or just a prerequisite?).
Apart from that I don't see billion-dollar type-of sales opportunity for US def-tech in Germany in any area. However there are some smaller ones ...