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Tha Clasic DOG-FIGHT  
User currently offlineLancero From Colombia, joined Jan 2001, 12 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1195 times:

I am an military pilot on the cargo role.
My felow pilots on the fight´s planes spend a lot of time and fuel training for aereal combat with their infrared misiles (about 3 miles range in optimal conditions). I believe that it is a waste because all the countries around us have MIG-29 and F-16 with semi-active misiles (to 10 miles up to 40 miles range). on the moder world I think that dog-fight is out, instead of the "fire and forget" doctrine. What do you think?

4 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1156 times:

To a degree that is true, US doctrine is very much into the BVR (beyond visual range) capes and fights, alone or with GCI/AWACS targeting support.


User currently offline2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1152 times:

ANd that whole concept bit the U.S. Military in the ass during Vietnam, resulting in the formation of schools like Top Gun and the AF Adversary Program.

User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

actually now inthe Air Force we have the Fighter Weapons School at Nellis (where the navy moved most of theirs as well)

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1127 times:

BVR is nice, but once the silver bullets are gone the opposition will still have aircraft left.
That's when you get down and dirty and slug it out with each other. Sidewinders and guns are still needed.

Indeed the US (and the UK) forgot about that in the late 1950s and early 1960s, believing that longrange missiles were all that was needed.
Then came Vietnam where suddenly those missiles ran out before the targets did and F-4s and F-105s began falling to MiG-19s armed with 23mm guns and sometimes primitive IR AAMs.

I wish I were flying
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