Apuneger From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 3010 posts, RR: 20 Posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2134 times:
Hello,
According to http://www.standaard.be (Belgian quality newspaper), Belgian Defence Minister Mr Pieter De Crem has told that within time, the Belgian Air Force will sell its 2 Airbus A310 it currently has in its fleet.
The 2 Airbus A310's, CA-01 and CA-02, were bought a couple of years ago from Singapore Airlines. Ever since the Belgian Air Force acquired these aircraft, there have been quite some problems and technical delays. Some of these got attention in the Belgian media. This is probably the reason why Mr De Crem is making this statement (ever since he was appointed as Minister of Defence, he has made quite some bold remarks and proposals).
Anyway, he also acknowledged that the Belgian Air Force will seek replacement for these Airbus A310's. Anybody has an idea which aircraft could be interesting? I'm thinking of used A330's or maybe used Boeing 757/767's? I don't think the current tight budget of Defence allows to acquire new aircraft.
PADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1673 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1893 times:
Quoting SNA350 (Reply 3): for the successor: a longer range aircraft should be considered IMO, so B762 or A332 but these 2 may be a bit to large.
Maybe Belgium should follow the Czech way: 2 A319CJs. One in business config, one in high density config.
Quoting R2rho (Reply 4): Are these in passenger configuration or some kind of multirole convertible cargo/PAX aircraft? Spain or Germany could use them...
No ... these are -200s. Pretty much inappropriate for AAR or longer range cargo or multirole operations.
TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 2759 posts, RR: 31 Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1887 times:
Will Belgium be able to aquire those new airplanes in a short timeframe? I mean, Belgium is not always known for aquiring new equipment fast, or for federal efficiency in general...
KC135TopBoom From United States, joined Jan 2005, 7684 posts, RR: 51 Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1824 times:
Since these are really A-310-200s, I would think they could be replaced with two (non ER) B-767-200s. AA has about 12-14 B-767-200s parked at MCI that are available.
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6): Will Belgium be able to aquire those new airplanes in a short timeframe? I mean, Belgium is not always known for aquiring new equipment fast, or for federal efficiency in general...
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 5621 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1807 times:
I think the A319ACJ would be the best choice for royal and VIP transport. Many goverments use it not only in the EU but all over the world. The only disadvantage would be that it would be too small for troop transport.
But I guess an A330-200 would be too big, too. The ideal solution would be a A332MRTT for cargo, troop transport and as a tanker and one or two A319ACJs for Royal and VIP flights and a common pool of pilots for these aircraft.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
KC135TopBoom From United States, joined Jan 2005, 7684 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1795 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 9): But I guess an A330-200 would be too big, too. The ideal solution would be a A332MRTT for cargo, troop transport and as a tanker and one or two A319ACJs for Royal and VIP flights and a common pool of pilots for these aircraft.
Buying just one A-330MRTT would not be very efficient. They did not say they needed a tanker, or even a long ranged aircraft, for that matter.
They could pick up two used A-310-300s, or A-300-B4, or B-767-200, or 4 B-757-200s, or 6 B-737-800s or A-320-200s.
No mention was made of a VIP aircraft, but you are right, an A-319CJ/A-320Elite or B-737-BBJ/-BBJ2 would work well.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 5621 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1780 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10): They could pick up two used A-310-300s, or A-300-B4, or B-767-200, or 4 B-757-200s, or 6 B-737-800s or A-320-200s.
A300B4s are outdated and also hardly available anymore, A313s are hard to get but would be the best sizewise as a troop/cargo aircraft as would be the 767-200ER/-300ER.
I think 737/A320 would be too small as a troop carrier. Belgium has troops in Afghanistan, Kosovo and I believe in Africa as well so a long range aircraft would be the best choice.
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10): Buying just one A-330MRTT would not be very efficient. They did not say they needed a tanker, or even a long ranged aircraft, for that matter.
I did not mean only 1 but that the A330MRTT would be the best aircraft. It could be uses as cargo aircraft but also personnel and as Medevac aircraft. I don´t know the requirement of the Belgium airforce and if they could use a tanker, if not let it just be an A330MRT. The A330 is definitely the best choice as a A310 replacement 767s are the same generation as the A310 but they would be cheaper.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
SNA350 From Belgium, joined Dec 2005, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1738 times:
A319CJ would not be big enough as a replacement for A310 because when it flies a royal or VIP mission there are allways so much people to go along with them, such as press and so on. when they do not need the capacity they just use the Embraers
A A330MRTT would be nice to see in the Belgian AF fleet but I think it will never happen.
IMO 762 is the way to go, maybe for a temporary replacement, and wait for a A350 or B787. But maybe I'm just dreaming
Why do we call ourselves the human race? It's not like somebody's gonna win.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 5621 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1725 times:
Quoting SNA350 (Reply 12): A319CJ would not be big enough as a replacement for A310 because when it flies a royal or VIP mission there are allways so much people to go along with them, such as press and so on. when they do not need the capacity they just use the Embraers
Seems big enough for Italy, France and Germany..... Even though it is not intended to be an A310 replacement for the GAF I think the A319 will be in some way as it will be used on many flights that currently are done with the A310 because the A319 will be much more fuel efficient and will have much lower costs in general.
Quoting SNA350 (Reply 12): A A330MRTT would be nice to see in the Belgian AF fleet but I think it will never happen.
IMO 762 is the way to go, maybe for a temporary replacement, and wait for a A350 or B787. But maybe I'm just dreaming
I don´t know if Belgium will choose a Boeing over an Airbus. France, Germany certainly won´t -at least for a VIP aircraft.
Germany sees Airbus has a symbol for German technology and using an Airbus aircraft as an advertsiment.
What about an used A340 or A330 ?
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
F27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1098 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1723 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 9): I think the A319ACJ would be the best choice for royal and VIP transport
Quoting SNA350 (Reply 12): A319CJ would not be big enough as a replacement for A310 because when it flies a royal or VIP mission there are allways so much people to go along with them, such as press and so on. when they do not need the capacity they just use the Embraers
if it's just to fly King Albert around, the Embraers will do more than fine. Our Queen flies a Fokker 70: elegant, not too big (so not giving the message: "I am compensating for something here!") and made in Holland!
If they want an airframe that is usable in more scenario's an A319 might be too small. That's why we have 3 KDC-10's.
A342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 3856 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days ago) and read 1663 times:
Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 15): So what's basically wrong with a pair of former SIA A310s if you don't have a lot of money to replace them? I think they will stay.
I tend to agree. Are the problems really that serious?
KC135TopBoom From United States, joined Jan 2005, 7684 posts, RR: 51 Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 10 hours ago) and read 1288 times:
Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 19): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Why can't the Belgian Air Force contract the maintenance of these A-310-200s out to an airline? Say AF or LH?
Nohag From Belgium, joined Apr 2004, 86 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1167 times:
Read this morning in a local newspaper (Gazet Van Antwerpen - Ducth) that in order to resolve the problems with the engines of the A310-200 in the short time they've leased one engine to get at least one A310 back into the sky.
BUT apparently.....and I can't imagine how this is possible....they've leased the wrong engine!!!!
They've contracted Lufthansa Technik to put the leased engine under the A310-200 in BRU. It was then that the error was discovered. It was the wrong version of the JT9D. This mistake could cost the Belgian taxpayer up to 1 million Euro.
In my opinion a couple of A330's would be the best choice for the Belgian Air Force.
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." E. Roosevelt
TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 2759 posts, RR: 31 Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1146 times:
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6): Will Belgium be able to aquire those new airplanes in a short timeframe? I mean, Belgium is not always known for aquiring new equipment fast, or for federal efficiency in general...
It was MEANT to be a joke
26 Nohag: Mistakes do happen everywhere but in this case I really am a bit embarrassed. On the other hand it is common knowledge that the Defence Department wa
27 Vfw614: I guess the less than ideal Srs. -200 aircraft were acquired in the first place because Belgium had no funds to buy some newer, better suited metal. I
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