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U.S. To Shoot Down Errant Satellite  
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5414 posts, RR: 8
Posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7045 times:

From the AP: U.S. to shoot down errant satellite.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/02/14/spy.satellite.ap/index.html

The satellite now confirmed as US 193 will be destroyed in space prior to entering the atmosphere by a missile from a U.S. Navy cruiser. It will be discussed (more likely "released") publicly at a Pentagon briefing later today (Thursday).

Guess they don't want any big secret pieces left to reach the ground.

Tug


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
90 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 959 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7022 times:



Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Guess they don't want any big secret pieces left to reach the ground.

Or a message to China: "Two can play at this game."


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7007 times:



Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Guess they don't want any big secret pieces left to reach the ground.

Or it's a convenient way of testing ASAT weaponry without calling it a "test".


User currently offlineThorny From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7022 times:



Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Guess they don't want any big secret pieces left to reach the ground.

They don't want any big pieces left to reach the ground, period. This way, they reduces the chances of personal injury or property damage.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13507 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7007 times:
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Quoting Thorny (Reply 3):
They don't want any big pieces left to reach the ground, period. This way, they reduces the chances of personal injury or property damage.

And reduces the need to have a quick-deployment force ready to retrieve whatever DOES hit the ground - don't want parts of a sophisticated spy satellite potentially falling into the wrong hands...



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineCO777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 691 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6973 times:

Fox is broadcasting the news conference live from their homepage. www.foxnews.com its in yellow

User currently offlineCorsair1107 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6930 times:

Anybody else hope they heavily document this and release neat pictures, videos etc?


Flown on: DHC-6/8, F100, B1900C, 717, 727, 737, 757, 767, 777, 319, 320, C152/172, E135/145, DC-9, MD-83/88 CL600
User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6925 times:



Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Guess they don't want any big secret pieces left to reach the ground.

Yes... And...

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Or a message to China: "Two can play at this game."

Yes.

Both statements are absolutely right.



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6889 times:

Don't forget that the Navy's system is a lot cheaper than the Air Force's system. I'm sure USN is chomping at the bit to show up USAF.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineThorny From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6874 times:



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
And reduces the need to have a quick-deployment force ready to retrieve whatever DOES hit the ground - don't want parts of a sophisticated spy satellite potentially falling into the wrong hands...

It is vanishingly unlikely anything sensitive would survive to reach the surface (Columbia wreckage did, but Columbia was built to survive re-entry and didn't disintegrate until late in the re-entry, that won't be true of NROL-21.) This is far more likely a convenient excuse to remind China that they aren't the only ASAT power, and "make sure no one gets hurt by falling wreckage" (it is large for a general satellite, but not particularly large for a spy satellite) is always good PR.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):
Don't forget that the Navy's system is a lot cheaper than the Air Force's system.

ABL isn't operational yet. Once it is, the Air Force will have a cheaper and far more versatile system.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6827 times:

Apparently this thing might pose a danger somewhere on land to take this action. If the USN misses, they will be murdered by bad publicity....

Edit:
Link to Aviation Leak story:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...0Shootdown%20Plans&channel=defense

[Edited 2008-02-14 15:16:45]


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5414 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6783 times:



Quoting Corsair1107 (Reply 6):
Anybody else hope they heavily document this and release neat pictures, videos etc?

Oh it'll be photographed, videoed, and documented up the yin-yang but the public will likely see none of it. I'm sure other "resources" will be focused on the task to rate how well the missile worked, how effective it was, and what if anything remains.

If the public does get to see anything it'll be crappy video/pics.

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 7):


Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Guess they don't want any big secret pieces left to reach the ground.

Yes... And...

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Or a message to China: "Two can play at this game."

Yes.

Both statements are absolutely right.

I can't take credit for the second quote, that belongs to:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 1):
Or a message to China: "Two can play at this game."

I do think they see this as a great opportunity to kill two birds with one stone: Get rid of a possible problem and exercise the Anti-sat system. (And get patted on the back for being so responsible.)

Tug



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineSphealey From United States of America, joined May 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6689 times:

> If the USN misses, they will be murdered by bad publicity....

Is the Standard designed to make a direct kinetic kill? Seems that is what you would need to ensure significant breakup of the satellite.

sPh


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29790 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6679 times:



Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 7):
Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Guess they don't want any big secret pieces left to reach the ground.

Yes... And...

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
Or a message to China: "Two can play at this game."

Yes.

Both statements are absolutely right

Yup, killing 3 birds with one missile.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineOzair From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6673 times:



Quoting Sphealey (Reply 12):
Is the Standard designed to make a direct kinetic kill? Seems that is what you would need to ensure significant breakup of the satellite.

Yes the SA)">SM-3 used for ABM work has an IR seeker which provides far greater accuracy than the SA radar seeker. WIll be interesting the altitude the intercept is made at as it will give an indication of how capable the system really is.


User currently offlineSprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6658 times:



Quoting Sphealey (Reply 12):
Is the Standard designed to make a direct kinetic kill?

I know the SM-1MR wasn't, but we did a skin to skin on a Talos in the VA-CAPES op-area. Two AEGIS CG's and a KIDD class DDG couldn't shoot it so a lowly FFG had to do a "over the shoulder" shot that was"impossible to do". Our CO was talking shit when we got back into Norfolk.

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineEx52tech From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 559 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6641 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Yup, killing 3 birds with one missile.

I wouldn't doubt any of those reasons, but I understand that this satalite is powered by a reactor, and maybe smaller pieces will burn up easier also.



"Saddest thing I ever witnessed....an airplane being scrapped"
User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6640 times:



Quoting Ex52tech (Reply 16):
I wouldn't doubt any of those reasons, but I understand that this satalite is powered by a reactor, and maybe smaller pieces will burn up easier also.

There have been some rumors of the satellite being nuclear powered, but the Pentagon has denied that. After launch, the spacecraft failed to respond to commands and it's hydrazine propellant tank is probably half full.

It seems to me that the DoD is taking appropriate action.



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineEx52tech From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 559 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6628 times:



Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 17):
It seems to me that the DoD is taking appropriate action.

I agree, I hope that I didn't come across the wrong way.



"Saddest thing I ever witnessed....an airplane being scrapped"
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10875 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

The general added that the space shuttle, currently on a mission to the International Space Station, would be back on Earth before the attempt was made.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7245578.stm

[Edited 2008-02-15 00:30:23]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineFVTu134 From Russia, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6494 times:



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 10):
Apparently this thing might pose a danger somewhere on land to take this action. If the USN misses, they will be murdered by bad publicity....

Negative.... they will just claim that the system was not designed for this kind of task (it's for ballistic missiles) and as such they had to do with what they had.

They are already building up the deniability.

FVTu134



who decided that a Horizon should be HORIZONtal???
User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6454 times:



Quoting Ex52tech (Reply 18):
I agree, I hope that I didn't come across the wrong way.

Absolutely not, but thank you!



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineDevildog2222 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6190 times:

I wonder if we'll be able to see the explosion, and if we can I wonder where in the sky we'll be able to see it. If we can see it I hope its on the west coast of the united states.

User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 6170 times:



Quoting Sphealey (Reply 12):
If the USN misses, they will be murdered by bad publicity....

They have a 6-8 day window so I imagine they'll have more than one shot. Although, if it can take out an ICBM head-on I don't think think they'll need more than one.



Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2725 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6059 times:

I wonder if you could see this if your lucky, from the ground at night.  Silly


View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
25 STT757 : I was watching around the Services and they said there would be three chances.
26 R2rho : Precisely. This satellite offers a perfect opportunity/excuse to "test" the US anti-sat capability, and send a little "diplomatic" message.
27 Glideslope : ....and from a VERY mobile platform that can (if it works) hit a satellite in any orbit. I wonder if they have more than 1 or 2 subs monitoring the l
28 Post contains links Oly720man : Tonight's the night.... maybe http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1930844420080219 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy may make its first att
29 UH60FtRucker : It is currently 0328 local time in the Pacific military exclusion zone. US 193 has just entered the kill zone, and if all goes accordingly, the satell
30 RedFlyer : News reports are now stating that the shot may be postponed to tomorrow because of inclement weather - rough seas. Anyone want to venture a guess as
31 Post contains images USAF336TFS : Ah, I miss the old days of TASS.... I dunno... Pre-launch glitch on all three Ticonderoga-class cruisers? Sounds unlikely to me.[Edited 2008-02-20 09
32 USAF336TFS : My bad RedFlyer. Sorry my friend. It's one Ticonderoga-class cruiser with two supporting vessels. According to Defense News, only three SM3 missiles w
33 RedFlyer : Ah, I didn't realize all three cruisers were in position and ready to go. I assumed they were to be staggered. I was also assuming that the weather w
34 Post contains images MCIGuy : This sounds kind of lame to me. The closing speed of the missile and the target should be so high that even a glancing blow should make metal confett
35 Jfkaua : its being shot at west of hawii so any debris would go west two new zeland/australia
36 Corsair1107 : sure about that? I would think that debris would continue in something close to the original orbit of the bird.
37 Thorny : Correct. The satellite is in a 58.5 degree orbit, meaning it crosses the equator going either northeast or southeast. The debris cloud will continue
38 RedFlyer : News is reporting that the launch went off and the errant sat was hit. More details to follow.
39 Corsair1107 : channel 5 in the washington, dc area is reporting that the SM-3 attack was successful and that large pieces may begin to de-orbit and burn up during
40 Post contains links CO777ER : http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331591,00.html
41 L-188 : Funny how they chose the night of a lunar eclipse to do this isn't it?
42 Post contains images Mark5388916 : Congrats to the USS Lake Erie! Now I wanna see some impact pictures Mark
43 StasisLAX : The large press attention to this ASAT attack is very strange and somewhat surprising,because the US military itself has brought the situation to the
44 Post contains links N328KF : Nobody was really worried about repeating SkyLab. They were more worried about repeating Cosmo 954, though on a bigger scale.
45 Sprout5199 : I think this was killing two birds with one stone. 1. Remove the threat of the hydrazine fuel. Most likly the tank was deep inside the satellite to pr
46 Lumberton : This is a point lost in the media. Ship's don't need landing rights and can traverse the ocean's surface at will. An ocean going ASAT capability is a
47 Post contains images Glideslope : Both. IMO, more toward the latter. Never the less very impressive.
48 MCIGuy : The footage of the intercept is on the news, I can't find it online yet. Anyway, it is amazing!
49 Post contains images Lumberton : There is also the possibility that this thing would have created an eco-nightmare had it impacted with unspent fuel--just as DoD has been saying the
50 Spacepope : No no no no Lumberton, this was a claim striaght FROM the DOD, so cannot possibly be true. Perhaps this government announcement was shielded out by a
51 Post contains images Lumberton : Yes, absolutely, we have to look for the conspiracy within! Seriously, that missile shot probably saved billions of dollars in claims had the satelli
52 BHMBAGLOCK : The big difference between this one and the typical one is that this one failed pretty much Day one and as a result is coming down with full tanks. M
53 STT757 : Congratulations to the USS Erie and her crew! This was a clear message that although the US Military might be tied up with ground operations in Iraq a
54 Post contains links Dougloid : Nothing specially nasty about hydrazine. It's dangerous stuff to handle but 1,000 pounds of the stuff would probably have burned up on re-entry. The
55 Post contains links Thorny : I think the "it was a nuke!" theory can be safely discounted. The satellite was launched on a Delta II, which makes it most likely too small to have
56 Post contains links Dougloid : In unskilled hands or if you get in close physical contact with the stuff. http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Hydrazine-9924279 You can compare it with
57 Post contains links and images AGM100 : And thanks to all the A Netters for the instersting posts here on this topic.. Its good stuff guys and gals . Outstanding ! http://www.lake-erie.navy
58 Halls120 : In one shot, the surface navy re-established the relevance that they had lost back when Billy Mitchell conducted his famous demonstration off the Vir
59 Thorny : The Columbia accident is what forced the military to shoot down the satellite. Many of Columbia's onboard prop tanks survived entry. Yes, Columbia ha
60 Post contains links Tugger : You can find a pic here: http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/0.../21/satellite.shootdown/index.html
61 Post contains links AirTranTUS : There is video here under "Confirmed Hit." Find it under "Related" and "Video". http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331642,00.html
62 OPNLguy : " target=_blank>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,....html I couldn't get that link/site to work, but it's probably the same video as this one:
63 Connies4ever : As to both points above, agree completely. This is an impressive technical achievement and a very effective point made in the bluff vs bluff game. Fo
64 Thorny : I think it was a 100% nitrogen atmosphere, not hydrazine. Various reports indicate it was either Columbia's aft compartment or one of the Tail Servic
65 RedFlyer : The impressive aspect of it is the fact that it was launched from a relatively small surface vessel. This adds a whole new paradigm to the "space war
66 Post contains images GPHOTO : Hydrazine is no worse than many other chemicals used in industry. However, the quantity of hydrazine on board is significant and could be unpleasant o
67 Connies4ever : Correct. Thanks for refreshing my memory ! You don't _add_ a paradigm, you _have_ one -- at least in the world of science I have been in the last 35
68 Lumberton : Thereby transforming these surface combatants into a strategic asset?
69 AGM100 : So does this test showing the world that the US can hit incoming objects make most known IC missiles obsolete ? For instance North Korea's missile fle
70 Lumberton : It was prototyped for ballistic missiles. Software mods were required for the satellite shot.
71 Post contains images Halls120 : Ahem. See post #58.
72 Post contains images Lumberton : I just knew I had read about it some place else, but couldn't pin it down....
73 Nomadd22 : I was a little surprised that an infrared seeker meant to hit warheads heated from the ascent would work so well on a satellite that had been dead and
74 Corsair1107 : If you'll recall, the intercept occured during daylight, there was probably sunlight reflecting off of the target, making it a "warm" spot against a
75 Nomadd22 : I always suspected they used classified visible light detectors for final approach since infrared isn't all that great resolution, and when you're clo
76 Revelation : Shooting down a LEO satellite with weeks of planning and special software loads doesn't say much about being able to shoot down ballistic missles in
77 Thorny : The special software was to hit the satellite. The normal software is used for anti-ICBM work. They've already hit several target missiles fired at t
78 Connies4ever : Believe Standard's intended role (or one of them) was ICBM intercept during terminal phase. And that it has demonstrated same in simulated attacks us
79 Halls120 : Well, many active duty naval officers I know agree with the above statement, so dismiss it as hyperbole if you like. While the aircraft carrier still
80 Sprout5199 : The "tin car" Navy never really was the attention getter. But I bet no carrier Capt would go to sea without any tin cans with him. As a former black
81 Post contains links PhatAlbert : Well heres the baby that did it... http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/080221-N-0000U-101.jpg
82 Revelation : So they thought the surface navy was irrelevant till this one shot? I find that hard to believe. And this one shot changed the surface navy from irre
83 Halls120 : Where did I ever say or suggest the surface navy was irrelevant?
84 Revelation : Here (emphasis is mine): Lost relevance is the same as irrelevance, at least in my book. That's the hyperbole I am reacting to.
85 Halls120 : While I can see where you might reach the conclusion you did, you're still wrong. What I said was that the surface navy regained the degree of releva
86 Nomadd22 : Shooting down a target that was far colder and going far faster than the target it was designed for with only a few weeks of prep and some software ch
87 RedFlyer : I tend to believe this capability was always a goal, though perhaps not primary and certainly not advertised, of the missile's specifications. Even a
88 Revelation : Peace! You've explained your point of view, and are certainly entitled to it. In my defense, you did not originally say "degree of relevence", and if
89 Checksixx : What does being cold have to do with anything??
90 Nomadd22 : Being cold has quite a bit to do with it when you're using infrared to track the target. The hotter the target, the shorter the wavelength of the infr
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