Venus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1410 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8339 times:
That was always the knock on a acft so expensive, with the upcoming accident investigation board I bet the air and mx crew will wish they could have died along with the acft with anal probing they are about to get.
You believed correctly. Of the 21 B-2s built, this is the first loss, and hopefully the last.
At a billion bucks a bomber, us taxpayers can't afford to lose more.
Anyone here have a serial number on the downed bird yet?
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
Venus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1410 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7422 times:
This is worse than losing an E-3 or RC-135 due to the cost of the acft, thank God that the egress boys did there job well with to live crew members to find out what happened, this is like losing a Aircraft Carrier. I bet everybody involved with this program is sick to their stomach, I been retired since 2003 and I am sick to my stomach..
TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3350 posts, RR: 30 Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7362 times:
It is an airplane. Planes can crash, thats life. Aren't mishap rates calculated into military plane programmes? Probably it was planned to lose less than 1 plane, but this can happen. Most important thing is that the crew has survived.
Tend to agree more or less with above, I know the US sank an _enormous_ amount of money in upfront R&D to develop both the material for the a/c and the continuously-varying surface design to make it nearly (but not totally) stealthy -- at least as far as ground-based current technology radars are concerned. I can't think of how many design iterations there must have been.
So maybe $20B for R&D, somewhat more than $20B for production.
Dragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7228 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 21): Attrition is generally factored into military aircraft buys & requirements studies, but given the cost of the B-2 program I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't accounted for in this case.
Original procurement was for 135 airframes, then reduced to 75, and finally to 20 by 1992. They decided to refurbish the test aircraft to make a total of 21... so I suppose that would be the attrition aircraft! Obviously with the larger numbers its easier to see how attrition rates can be factored, but with just 20 aircraft...basically you are hoping you dont lose any.
ACW367 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 238 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7170 times:
Taking cost aside, simple arithmetic - 1 hull loss from 135 planes is 0.70%. I hull loss from 21 frames is 4.75%. Therefore in a world where military airfleets are capability lead. Losing 4.75% of your military capability is a hard hit.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7163 times:
Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 22): Original procurement was for 135 airframes, then reduced to 75, and finally to 20 by 1992. They decided to refurbish the test aircraft to make a total of 21... so I suppose that would be the attrition aircraft! Obviously with the larger numbers its easier to see how attrition rates can be factored, but with just 20 aircraft...basically you are hoping you dont lose any.
Also with most aircraft development programs the manufacturer really doesn't figure out how to build the aircraft until they get a couple of dozen, or more, aircraft out the door (A380, 787, Shuttle, C-5, & C-17 come to mind). With such a small production run to say that each B-2 costs $1.2B is probably a real WAG regardless of who says it. $1.2B isn't a replacement cost because there is no production line for replacements( and if there were the price would need to account for inflation), and it isn't a flyaway cost because each one of the 21 was handbuilt to different block or production specs.
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25 TaromA380: What if there will be other losses, in time ? (I hope not) Could the production line be restarted ?
26 ZANL188: Probably, but the costs would surely far out strip the $1.2B quoted. The lost B-2 is literally priceless....
27 Jgarrido: There were 2 flights of 2 scheduled to take off yesterday. The lead of the first flight took off fine, it was his wingman who crashed. They closed th
28 Oroka: It doubt it would cost 1.2b to restart the line. The B-2 was state of the art in the 80s, the cost of RAM and other associated materials have undoubt
29 DEVILFISH: Equally intriguing would be the CO's predicament when he faces his superiors. I wonder what the CO would wish for. Would a senior officer's grilling
30 ThePalauan: It's a relief to know the pilots are still alive. I went to Andersen about a good three hours after the incident (I didn't even know it had occured) a
31 ZANL188: To restart it and build one replacement B-2? You must be joking....
32 Zeke: I think the total program cost was about that, the aircraft were about 1/3 of that.
33 TheSonntag: It was used in the Kosovo Campaign in 1999, and proved to be rather useful there bombing strategic targets. However, it still remains questionable wh
34 ZANL188: Premiums would be outrageous. US Gov't is self insured.
35 Checksixx: R&D costs are never factored in when talking about aircraft cost. This was a tactic brought into play by F-22 opponents. The thing to concentrate on h
36 Aileron11: I wonder if they will ground the fleet until they find out what happened? Think about, they had 21 now 20, because they only had 21 they need to make
37 Spacepope: The "actual" cost to build each aircraft was closer to $400 million, which compared to the F-22 isn't that bad of a deal. All tooling is still around
38 ZANL188: Depends on what caused the accident... If say it was a birdstrike they'll probably clear the aircraft quickly and resume operations. Crew was able to
39 USAF336TFS: This is a real heart breaker, for those of us who are fascinated with the B-2 and it's technologies. At anywhere from $400M to $1.2B per copy, dependi
40 Curt22: Actually...would be less expensive to lose the crew and preserve the aircraft at a billion dollars per copy!
41 Checksixx: Lets not get carried away with cost. Factually, the listed airframe cost the Air Force provides is almost right on at just over $1.1 Billion flyaway.
42 L-188: You must be a Diffenbaker admirer. This is the same thinking that killed the CF-105 Arrow and replaced it with that turd, the BOMARC missile! You kno
43 RacingGreen07: Ok so who picks up the tab? Tax paying americans? Or an Insurance company? Or someone else? Regards!