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Area 51  
User currently offlineCheshire From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 112 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7407 times:

I was speaking recently to an F-111 pilot who took part in Red Flag a few years ago. He said there was an RAF Tornado crew that suffered an in flight engine fire and asked for permission to make an emergency landing at Area 51. The crew asked twice for permission to recover to Area 51's runway and were told 'Negative- eject and a chopper will pick you up'.
Exactly what is Uncle Sam hiding there?

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJoeinTX From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7337 times:

Obviously, just a few items that they don't want anyone to know that we have or can produce.

UFOs? Space aliens? Interdimensional doorways to Zeta Reticuli (or is it "Reticulae?")


No.


Just a few aircraft with the latest and greatest our minds can come up with and some advanced, but very terrestrial, electronics and radar sets that might bely what we know about our potential opponents abilities. Nothing more, nothing less.


User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7333 times:



Quoting Cheshire (Thread starter):
I was speaking recently to an F-111 pilot who took part in Red Flag a few years ago. He said there was an RAF Tornado crew that suffered an in flight engine fire and asked for permission to make an emergency landing at Area 51. The crew asked twice for permission to recover to Area 51's runway and were told 'Negative- eject and a chopper will pick you up'.
Exactly what is Uncle Sam hiding there?

No one but those people who work inside the facility knows. The place has been highly classified for years and I don't suspect that's going to change any. Incidentally, did the Tornado crew eject and were they O.K. when they were recovered?



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7190 times:

Not to be a pisser, but the only recorded loss of an RAF Tornado during exercises in NV was due to loss of control and impact with terrain while conducting SAM avoidance exercises.

Story seems to be an urban myth.


User currently offlineHighlander0 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7162 times:

LINK suggests either 20th/30th March 1988.


Google is thy friend.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7146 times:

Every RAF Tornado ever lost:

http://www.tornado-data.com/Production/RAF%20Crash%20Data.pdf

Only the crash on the 30th is recorded.


User currently offlineNorlander From Faroe Islands, joined Sep 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7083 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 5):
Only the crash on the 30th is recorded.

The crash on the 20th of March 1988 could still have happened per the other webpage, just not appearing in certain publications due to the nature of the crash (refused access to area 51).

If the story is true the March 20 1988 date seems to fit. At that point in time the Cold War was still on and the Dreamland Resort was testing the B-2 Spirit under the Aurora codename (which later has been suggested belongs to a whole different post-SR71 project, even though retired official sources confirm it was the B-2 codename ). The nature and characteristics of the B-2 Spirit were at that point in time Highly Classified and worth asking allies to lose aircraft over.

[Edited 2008-04-08 15:48:41]

[Edited 2008-04-08 15:50:07]


Longtime Lurker
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9001 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7066 times:



Quoting Norlander (Reply 6):
The crash on the 20th of March 1988 could still have happened per the other webpage, just not appearing in certain publications due to the nature of the crash (refused access to area 51).

The RAF still would have published an accident report, they have no for the 20th, but have for the 30th. For the crash on the 30th, the pilot would have had no time to talk to anyone, it happened at low level.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineHighlander0 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7033 times:

They would've published it, just redacted, like alot of them are.


Also, the data only reveals the 30th. I don't believe, after 20 years, that the crash of the A/C would've been hidden. The MoD isn't that good. Trust me. [:


User currently offlineBuss61 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6986 times:

I dont know if it happened or not but it does sound like something that could happen. I wonder what they would say if a airliner packed with a bunch of people needed to make an emergency landing at Area 51. Just something to think about!!!


Any Time Baby!!!
User currently offlineHighlander0 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6985 times:

I'd guess they'd move things away rather quickly, or advise them to land on the dry lake perhaps?

User currently offlineFlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6933 times:



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 3):
Story seems to be an urban myth

I'm gonna agree on that one. If there was stuff there they didn't want ANYONE to see, then they would have initially bought up all land within line of sight of the area. Not to mention, a secret base isn't worth the dirt it's built on if they can't even hide whatever it is they are doing. I'm sure any military aircraft in need of immediate assistance would be granted permission to land there. And of course you're instructed to stay in your aircraft once stopped etc...



Go Trojans! Fight On!
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1608 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6915 times:
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Quoting Norlander (Reply 6):
If the story is true the March 20 1988 date seems to fit. At that point in time the Cold War was still on and the Dreamland Resort was testing the B-2 Spirit under the Aurora codename (which later has been suggested belongs to a whole different post-SR71 project, even though retired official sources confirm it was the B-2 codename ). The nature and characteristics of the B-2 Spirit were at that point in time Highly Classified and worth asking allies to lose aircraft over.

As the B-2 wasn't rolled out until November 22, 1988 and first flew on July 17, 1989, they could hardly have been testing it in March of 1988! Also, despite the attempts to control the media's view of the B-2 at rollout, the late Mike Dornheim of Aviation Week & Space Technology rented a Cessna 172 and legally flew over the ceremony, getting great pictures of the configuration. These were published the next week in AW&ST.

One of Mike's pictures:
http://www.ausairpower.net/B-2A-Rollout.jpg


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6896 times:



Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 11):
Not to mention, a secret base isn't worth the dirt it's built on if they can't even hide whatever it is they are doing.

Plus, they most likely bring out the really cool toys at night. Moonless nights at that.


User currently offlineChecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6741 times:



Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 11):
I'm sure any military aircraft in need of immediate assistance would be granted permission to land there. And of course you're instructed to stay in your aircraft once stopped etc...

Having worked out on the ranges, I'd have to agree. Also, there doesn't seem to be too much to see out at Groom during the day.

At night is when (sometimes) interesting activity takes place. Never had any of my pictures turn out though...


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6699 times:



Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 12):
As the B-2 wasn't rolled out until November 22, 1988 and first flew on July 17, 1989, they could hardly have been testing it in March of 1988! Also, despite the attempts to control the media's view of the B-2 at rollout, the late Mike Dornheim of Aviation Week & Space Technology rented a Cessna 172 and legally flew over the ceremony, getting great pictures of the configuration. These were published the next week in AW&ST.

The B-2 was not developed or tested a Area 51. The B-2 was built in and had it first flight from Palmdale California (Air Force Plant 42). Flight testing took place at Edwards AFB.


User currently offlineF4wso From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6528 times:

I would put this in the urban myth category based on my experiences at Nellis. I participated in two Red Flags in 1983, Fighter Weapons School graduation exercise in 1986, and a Green Flag in 1992. In every case, if we needed to put it down quick the nearest suitable runway was available. It didn't have to be Groom Lake, Indian Springs was also nearby.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA



Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
User currently offlineSprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6516 times:



Quoting Cheshire (Thread starter):
He said there was an RAF Tornado crew

And even if they did land, don't you think they would be cleared at least T/S, they are RAF officers right? And I will bet some money that some people in the RAF knew about the B-2 before the roll out. The US isn't THAT paranoid. But the debrief would be a bitch.

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineAlien From Romania, joined Oct 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6390 times:



Quoting Cheshire (Thread starter):
Exactly what is Uncle Sam hiding there?

Little green men.
Ray guns.
Flying Saucers.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6294 times:



Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 17):
But the debrief would be a bitch.

The only thing I can say about the times I have been debriefed. Very anti-climatic.


User currently offlineSprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6183 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 19):
The only thing I can say about the times I have been debriefed. Very anti-climatic.

But did you land at a top-secret, not acknowledged base without orders?

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6154 times:

I don't know, I suppose this is possible, but if anything important was out in the open then satellites could have seen it anyway. A few years ago an airliner was allowed an emergency diversion to Whiteman, AFB. I just don't suppose they let any of the passengers get up close to a B-2.  Smile

Quote:
DATE & SITE: 7/12 - Whiteman Air Force Base, Mo.
AIRCRAFT & REGISTRATION: McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N9413T (Trans World Airlines)
CIRCUMSTANCES: Emergency landing at Air Force base after catastrophic failure
of
No. 1 engine in flight and smoke in cabin and cockpit/emergency
evacuation/meteorological conditions not reported. D
DEATHS & INJURIES: 122 - Uninjured
NTSB ID#: CHI01IA211
PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS2: Details of engine failure and reason for smoke in
cockpit
and cabin not reported

BTW, there are or have been more than a few former Soviet aircraft at Groom Lake, that's one of the things they're "hiding" there.  Smile



Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineCurt22 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6151 times:



Quoting Buss61 (Reply 9):
I dont know if it happened or not but it does sound like something that could happen. I wonder what they would say if a airliner packed with a bunch of people needed to make an emergency landing at Area 51. Just something to think about!!!

I suspect that IF the govt had a secret base in the middle of nowhere that they would restrict the airspace over this area so the idea of a commercial airliner needing to make an emergency landing would be moot since these acft would never be allowed to come near this secret base in the first place.

If such place a actually exists, there are also any number of other airfields in the local LAS area including the Nellis range...of course, that's IF such a place existed in the first place (wink wink).


User currently offlineACW367 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

I worked with the pilot of this particular Tornado later in the 90's. In order to gain more manoeuvrability when he was bounced at low level he turned of the spin prevention and incidence limiting system (SPILS)which naturally makes the aircraft more unstable and therefore more manoeuvrable. Obviously though there is less computer assistance to maintain controlled flight.

He lost control of the unstable jet and had only a couple of seconds in which to eject before impact. This was not a mechanical failure which could have resulted in a diversion, it was a loss of control that reached an unrecoverable position quickly, causing the crew to eject. After the crash he was transferred from fast jet to multi-engine and he eventually became a successful pilot on the Hercules fleet.


User currently offlineSprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6072 times:



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 5):
Every RAF Tornado ever lost:

http://www.tornado-data.com/Production/RAF%20Crash%20Data.pdf

Only the crash on the 30th is recorded.

Was looking at these, whats up with this:
"06/ 02/ 1984 Crashed 15m South West of Wilhelmshaven, Germany Lightning strike caused starboard underwing fuel tank to catch fire/ explode Aircrew Error"

Aircrew Error for a lighting strike?

Damn the review board is harsh.

Dan in Jupiter


25 Post contains images ShyFlyer : Fighter pilots are gods. Therefore, they should be able to control such things as lightning.
26 Checksixx : If the story was even close to being true, the could have landed in many other places as people have said already. Indian Springs and Mercury would pr
27 Stitch : When flying SEA-LAS (and one other city - SEA-PHX, I believe) on AS, you can actually see Area 51 off in the distance (which I agree is not "close",
28 B747forever : But exactly where is Area 51 located. And do US have more areas like area 51???
29 Nomadd22 : I had a German Tornado crash into a communications relay I'd just spent a year installing in Indian Basin just south of Roswell in the late 90s. I sto
30 Norlander : About 100 miles north of Las Vegas Nevada. Not more secret then you can view it on Google Earth... Coordinates: 37.14.06N 115.48.40W
31 Norlander : Area 51 isn't the only interesting place north of Vegas though. Tonopah (area 52) is just as interesting (38.3N 117.5W). Another is in Monotony Valley
32 B747forever : Okay, thank you so much for all the info. Will check it up now
33 474218 : There must be at least 50 more areas.
34 Buss61 : I was watching a thing on the Discovery channel the other day and they had a guy on there saying that most of the top secret stuff at Area 51 had been
35 MDorBust : NM
36 Post contains links Stitch : With all the attention focused on Area 51, Popular Mechanics noted many years back that the USAF was considering moving many "Black" projects to a ne
37 Covert : The United States has a caveat for classified information called NOFORN (disclosure not authorized to foreign nationals.) Just because the coalition
38 Norlander : It's worth noting that Groom Lake (Area 51) has been expanded over the last decade and that over a thousand people still work there every day (many o
39 Nomadd22 : White Sands is useful because it's just across the hills from Roswell, where the aliens are always crashing, but they do have a lot of trouble with al
40 JarheadK5 : I'd be willing to be the pax were handled the same way pax are handled at any other AF base - guided in a straight line from the airstairs to the bus
41 Checksixx : The Nellis Range complex is broken up into 'Area's' on the map of it for identification/navigation purposes. Area 1 and so on. The Groom Lake complex
42 MCIGuy : Yeah, after his stint in the 1st Marines in Korea my dad worked for the Corps Of Engineers. He did the geological testing for the Minuteman silos tha
43 J.mo : Check out just south of Jet Route 58-80 between the Coaldale VOR and Wilson Creek VOR. In R-4809 there is a little military airfield called TNX.
44 Jgarrido : Since no one as said it yet, I guess I'll step up to the plate: If I told you, I'd have to kill you.
45 Sprout5199 : True, I had a NATO TS and handled NOFORN materials all the time(I was an Electronics Tech, I worked on Crypto gear).You also forgot the biggie when i
46 ACW367 : Don't forget that the RAF had an exchange pilot flying the F117A from Tonopah in 1987, even before the aircraft was declassified to the rest of the w
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