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Russia "shoots Down Georgian Drone" (video)  
User currently offlineKukkudrill From Malta, joined Dec 2004, 1123 posts, RR: 5
Posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4693 times:

Here's what it's like to be on the wrong end of an AAM ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7358761.stm


Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4700 times:

Amazing video, thanks for sharing!  Wow!
They call the aircraft a Mig-29 and It looks like they're correct (I'd say by the shape of the wing rather than by the "distinctive" double-fin).... Not sure about what missile is that (AA-2?)
Georgia should be quite pissed, to say the least...  Wink



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineRyan h From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 1496 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4596 times:

The Russians must be desperate if they are using an AA-2 Atoll on their MiG 29.


South Australian Spotter
User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4558 times:



Quoting Ryan h (Reply 2):
The Russians must be desperate if they are using an AA-2 Atoll on their MiG 29.

Yeah, I wanted to say Archer in my above post, that would be AA-11, my mistake  Smile


Some lovely quotes from the BBC article:

Garry Kupalba, deputy defence minister of the unrecognised Republic of Abkhazia, told reporters the drone had been shot down by an "L-39 aircraft of the Abkhaz Air Force".

L-39???  Yeah sure

A Russian air force spokesman said: "What would a Russian jet fighter be doing over Georgian territory?"

Shooting a missile?  Silly

Seriously, could that be any other fighter other than Russian? I think not, not to my knowledge at least... so either the Mig or the UAV must have been where it shouldn't be....



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineACW367 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

The UAV is a Hermes 450.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_UAV

Does anyone know how many Georgia possess and where they operate from. Do they carry Georgian air force markings.


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4675 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

"MASTER CAUTION"  rotfl 

That was priceless!



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4154 times:



Quoting Kukkudrill (Thread starter):
Here's what it's like to be on the wrong end of an AAM ...

sends chills down my spine...it's pretty amazing how quickly the missile travels, although if it is an R-73 (AA-11) it does give you a nice smoke trail to see...still the R-73 is supposed to be really hard to spoof...is it possible to put a DIRCM unit on a fighter? (the laser pod that blinds the missile, used to protect helicopters and high value airliners)

also makes you think about how an F-22 and a BVR AMRAAM shot you'd never know what hit you...no smoke, just your ECM giving you a short warning when the missile goes active, right before it hits your plane at Mach 4...


User currently offlineScottieprecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4076 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 5):
"MASTER CAUTION" rotfl

That was priceless!

LMAO.. that had me crackin up!

And I love how Russia just blatantly lies about this. Lol. Sucks for Georgia, but still pretty funny.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2032 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4067 times:

Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do...


No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineHighlander0 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4066 times:



Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 6):
DIRCM

It's actually LIRCM- Large Infra-Red Counter Measures that go on airliners


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11929 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4022 times:



Quoting ACW367 (Reply 4):
The UAV is a Hermes 450.

Was!  Smile

(filer)



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3993 times:



Quoting Highlander0 (Reply 9):
It's actually LIRCM- Large Infra-Red Counter Measures that go on airliners

http://usafengineers.com/modules.php...me=Bricolage&MODE=SHOW&PAGE=AAQ-24

It looks as though we're both right. I guess DIRCM, Directional Infrared Countermeasure, is the blanket term for the technology.


User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 3889 times:



Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 6):
although if it is an R-73 (AA-11) it does give you a nice smoke trail to see...still the R-73 is supposed to be really hard to spoof...

I'm brought to think it's indeed a R-73, because it looks like it's fired from the outer pylon, where usually WVR missiles are mounted on the Mig-29 (and many other fighters). Interesting to notice also how the Mig pilot maneuvers to get right behind the drone and at a lower altitude before shooting, probably to get the best kill chances without the surface of the sea interfering with the missile tracking. I just wonder why he goes for a costy missile instead of using his 30mm cannon, a drone's a cheap, defenseless target after all...



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineRJAF From Jordan, joined Jan 2007, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 3889 times:

Why did the Mig-29 fire an expensive missile when a few cannon bursts would have done the job?


Chance favors the prepared mind
User currently offlineHighlander0 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3749 times:

What would look cooler though?:D

User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3736 times:



Quoting RJAF (Reply 13):
Why did the Mig-29 fire an expensive missile when a few cannon bursts would have done the job?

The pilot isn't paying for the missile. Might as well fire the most satisfying thing you have on the plane.


User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3706 times:



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 15):

Quoting RJAF (Reply 13):
Why did the Mig-29 fire an expensive missile when a few cannon bursts would have done the job?

The pilot isn't paying for the missile. Might as well fire the most satisfying thing you have on the plane.

I would also expect that it is safer for the pilot to just stand off and fire than to approach a slower (much) aircraft and fire your gun at it.

I do find it amusing and concerning that Russia so blatantly ignores the issue when it is so clearly evident what happened. I bet someone got in trouble for getting it caught on film for for the world to see, next time the pilot will not shot from below......

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

I recently read that the Mig-29 wasn't russian but actually one of Azerbaijani Air Force Mig's. Hence why the Russian keep denying it

User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3418 times:



Quoting RJAF (Reply 13):
Why did the Mig-29 fire an expensive missile when a few cannon bursts would have done the job?

Because any stray cannon rounds would be reported to have hit the Georgian convent for blind nuns....

Missiles have a shelf life, if you don't use them, you have to scrap them anyway...

Plus now the drone has provided great marketing footage of the missile in action. Buy one today!



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3357 times:



Quoting Acheron (Reply 17):
I recently read that the Mig-29 wasn't russian but actually one of Azerbaijani Air Force Mig's. Hence why the Russian keep denying it

That's strange... because looks like the incident happened on the sea: the only sea there is Back Sea and so an Azerbaijani Mig should have crossed foreign airspace to get there, and it's so far from Azerbaijan.... Caspian sea? Same question the other way round, what was the drone doing there and how did it get there?



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1534 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3290 times:

Why would the Azeri Air Force shoot down a Georgian military drone? The jet would have crossed precariously close to Armenian and Russian airspace, crossed the entirety of Georgia (not much to cross, but still), cross to the Black Sea and then do the whole trip all over again. Someone would have made contact with it, it's not like we're dealing with an F-22 or F-117.

Now if the drone were flying over the Caspian, Georgia would certainly be at fault here, as they would have had to cross Armenia/Russia and/or Azerbaijan en route to the Caspian.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

Maybe what's pictured at the bottom is rather large lake, and looking at the map there seems to be one in the middle of Azerbaijan.
Armenia also has a rather large lake, and operate MiG-29's aswell, so it could be either Russian, Azerbaijani or Armenian.


User currently offlineTEEJ From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3124 times:



Quoting Acheron (Reply 21):

The coordinates on the UAV footage show the location as just off the Georgian coast over the Black Sea. Retrieve those from the video and plug them into Google Earth, etc.

Cheers

TJ


User currently offlineWvsuperhornet From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2971 times:

Oh yeah I would believe the Russian Version of the story first...LMAO!!!!

User currently offlineGlideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2899 times:



Quoting Spacepope (Reply 18):
Because any stray cannon rounds would be reported to have hit the Georgian convent for blind nuns....

Missiles have a shelf life, if you don't use them, you have to scrap them anyway...

Plus now the drone has provided great marketing footage of the missile in action. Buy one today!

LOL. I'll go with "buy one today." The Russians are like children playing with matches. The EU better get ready.



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2863 times:



Quoting Glideslope (Reply 24):
LOL. I'll go with "buy one today." The Russians are like children playing with matches. The EU better get ready.

Do you think I can get a good deal on last year's model?? Maybe a 2 for 1 or something. hehe...

One of the cool things I noticed about the video was that the MiG was not pointed at the target when the missile was fired so I'm inclined to think that the pilot was using his helmet mounted sight to cue the missile's seeker head in the right direction. Can anyone else comment on this being a possibility? I'd think that a small drone has a relatively small IR signature and that it could be difficult to get a good lock.


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