HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Posted (5 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3069 times:
After sucessfully testfiring Agni III [3500km range],India is now considering developing an Agni IV with range of 6000km.
No comments from china so far.Guess they are too concerned about the Tibet issue at present.
TedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3073 times:
I think this belongs in Mil/Space?
This moves highlights how dangerous the times we live in are. While I'd love to berate India for the continued escalation given how many Indians are starving, I understand Pakistan and China are very dangerous neighbors.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3061 times:
Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1): I understand Pakistan and China are very dangerous neighbors.
As most Democracies,Its important to cater to their security Interests.
The advantage of Agni III was it could be used as a second reaction launch in case INDIA was targetted by a device earlier,as it could be portablly launched.
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3061 times:
The Agni ICBMs are China-specific. They'd overshoot Pakistan even if fired from the furthest part of India from the western border. The new ICBM is just a deterrence balance of power instrument, to be followed next year by the launch of the first Indian SSBN.
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3051 times:
Quoting TedTAce (Reply 4): Revenge for all the abuse they take from us on the Dell tech support line?
Not unless the Chinese have been at it as well. From a more serious perspective, the SSBN fleet will form the final leg of the strategic triad in India's draft nuclear doctrine, after air-launched and road-mobile strategic weapons already in the arsenal. Sea-based deterrents have the highest survivability and second strike potential to ensure assured massive retaliation, which is an important requirement considering we have a strategic no-first-use policy against other nuclear weapons states.
Springbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3042 times:
Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1): While I'd love to berate India for the continued escalation given how many Indians are starving, I understand Pakistan and China are very dangerous neighbors.
India is surrounded by unstable countries (except China - but they're a threat in any case. Just ask some of the Indians here about the 1962 war..and just how far the Chinese had come into India). They need a weapons arsenal that can be used to defend themselves if necessary. This is a necessity..they're not doing it 'just for the heck of it'. No doubt we'll soon see Pakistan test-firing some of their long range missiles.
The SSBN is the actual nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine. Three are under construction and are unnamed as of now. There are two missiles it can carry - the 1500km range Sagarika (Oceanic) ballistic missile, or the Agni-3SL (sea-launched), which has a range of over 5000kms.
The technical parameters of the Agni 3 and 4 are deliberately understated, following a longstanding policy of concealing maximal capabilities. However, from ballistic simulation, one can determine what the Agni 3 is capable of. Here's something from a Russian general in the aftermath of the current test: Agni III could have 5,000 km range: Russian General
Quote: "The parameters of the missile disclosed by the Indian defence officials... provide solid ground for presuming that Agni-III is similar to the Soviet Army's first twin stage solid fuel propelled BRSD "Pioneer" (NATO codename SS-20) missile with a range of upto five thousand kilometres," Maj Gen Yevgeny Borodunov was quoted as saying by ITAR-TASS.
Imiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2866 times:
Quoting BarfBag (Reply 3): The new ICBM is just a deterrence balance of power instrument, to be followed next year by the launch of the first Indian SSBN.
Apparently, the subs due to enter service in 2010:
Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 6): No doubt we'll soon see Pakistan test-firing some of their long range missiles
There's no rush. The Shaheen IRBM already covers most of the sub-continent.
Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 6): India is surrounded by unstable countries (except China - but they're a threat in any case. Just ask some of the Indians here about the 1962 war..and just how far the Chinese had come into India). They need a weapons arsenal that can be used to defend themselves if necessary. This is a necessity..they're not doing it 'just for the heck of it'. No doubt we'll soon see Pakistan test-firing some of their long range missiles.
How having the capability to wipe out every living soul from Beijing, Bombay to Karachi is "necessary" is beyond me.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2667 times:
Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 8): How having the capability to wipe out every living soul from Beijing, Bombay to Karachi is "necessary" is beyond me.
Oh, hug a tree. Historically, a nuclear deterrent is an extremely effective means of preventing direct armed conflict (at any scale) with another nuclear power. India maintaining a strategic balance with other Asian powers is a good thing.
Comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4671 posts, RR: 17 Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2623 times:
Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 8): How having the capability to wipe out every living soul from Beijing, Bombay to Karachi is "necessary" is beyond me.
I'm also trying to understand the logic here. All three countries are nuclear powers, and a first strike is inconceivable by any of them. The nuclear standoff also makes a conventional war unlikely. The reigning wisdom is that only an arms race a la the Cold War, based on MAD, will keep all sides in check.
So if you have a nuclear arsenal, and the will to use them, technically you won't need any other weapons except to secure your missiles. In a way, you could say Nukes save lives otherwise at risk in conventional warfare.
India's defence concerns relate to terror bases and political instability in Pakistan leading to nuclear terrorism. It's issue with China is more territorial, and perhaps economic in securing raw materials. China overran Indian forces in 1962 and that is a deep, 'Never Again' issue with some Indians, while with others it's No Rest till payback time.
The truth is, China and Pakistan are allies, and India will find it hard to catch up with China's might. It'll have to be a strategy of establishing minimum credible deterrence for India.
Also, every dollar spent on a missile or Su-30 is a dollar not spent feeding or educating a child living in poverty. Over 200 million people in India live on less than $1 a day. This is a tough choice that Western nations do not have to make.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2603 times:
Quoting Comorin (Reply 12): So if you have a nuclear arsenal, and the will to use them, technically you won't need any other weapons except to secure your missiles.
The concern is those weapons falling in the wrong hands.
regds
MEL
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2561 times:
Quoting Comorin (Reply 12): So if you have a nuclear arsenal, and the will to use them, technically you won't need any other weapons except to secure your missiles.
Nuclear weapons are just tools. It's a stable interaction of strategic doctrines that guarantees security from nuclear conflict, not conflict itself in general; nuclear weapons by themselves do not prevent warfare, even between nuclear states. It has happened on more than one occasion. However, such wars often tend to be proxy based (e.g. US-USSR in Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan). Closer home, the Pakis made yet another grab for Kashmir a year after their 1998 test, only to lose heavily, followed by the subsequent political instability bringing Musharraf to power in a coup.
As far as weapons instead of developmental spending goes, procuring domestically produced weapons as opposed to imported ones is a way around that. Every military power of consequence has a massive military-industrial complex, and developing cutting edge technology ourselves entails significant investment in technological development, manufacturing facilities and supportive infrastructure, all of which employ people. Weapons development after all, is just another commercial endeavour. Ergo, India's focus ought to be developing and manufacturing cutting edge weapons technology on its own.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2248 times:
Quoting BarfBag (Reply 14): Closer home, the Pakis made yet another grab for Kashmir a year after their 1998 test, only to lose heavily, followed by the subsequent political instability bringing Musharraf to power in a coup.
Now with Mushy on the way out & Nawaz sharief gaining power.The secrets of the Kargil war are being revealed.I guess the Indians are smiling all the way.
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