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The 2008 Moscow Victory Parade  
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13169 posts, RR: 78
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6995 times:

This annual event, to commemorate the victory over Nazi Germany, this year had a much increased military presence in the form of military vehicles and the flypast.
Clearly the recent more assertive politics of Putin has driven this, for many it recalls the great parades of the USSR, which also provided NATO analysts with much that was of interest.
However, recent politics aside, they are remembering a devastating total war, that killed some 27 million Russians and led to 80% of the casualties suffered by Nazi Germany.

Here are some pics of aviation interest;
http://dnevnik.bg/show/?storyid=493660

Some video;


Edit - Adding video

[Edited 2008-05-10 05:43:22]

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2577 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6869 times:
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Thanks for the video. I found another video through a Russian forum, but this one is better.

You can read Bulgarian? I'm surprised by the link  Smile


User currently offlineSovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2577 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6853 times:
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Here's the other page:

http://fishki.net/comment.php?id=34850


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13169 posts, RR: 78
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6775 times:



Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 1):
You can read Bulgarian? I'm surprised by the link

I cannot speak Bulgarian (I didn't even know is was Bulgarian,) the wonders of Google found it!


User currently offlineFlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6760 times:



Quoting GDB (Thread starter):
Some video;

More plywood mock-ups there in the beginning of the video?  Smile

And did you all see the amount of ribbons on that guys chest behind the guys in suits? Dear God man!!!

Maybe it's just from growing up in the US and seeing how we do things, but Russians sure do have an interesting way of celebrating a World War 2 victory, showing nuclear missiles and all.



Go Trojans! Fight On!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6753 times:

You know it doesn't matter if it the May Day or the Rose Bowl Parade, the TV commentators always sound the same.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6745 times:



Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 4):
Maybe it's just from growing up in the US and seeing how we do things, but Russians sure do have an interesting way of celebrating

True, but when I see those pictures I wish here in the USA we would see similiar formations, such as a C-5 with a pair of F-15's on the wing, a B-1 with a pair of F-14's on the wing, a KC-135 trailed by B-52 with a pair of F-18's on the wing, 6 F-15's with 4 F-16's in mixed formation and an F-111 with a F-35.  Wink Just saying...


And I've always had a fetish for dissimiliar aircraft formations.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8846 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6723 times:

Saber rattling, a time honored tradition, mastered by the old USSR, and rearing it's head again.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineFlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6692 times:



Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 6):
but when I see those pictures I wish here in the USA we would see similiar formations

Oh yah, no arguments here! I would love to see it in the US (just saw some good stuff down in SD for the air races last weekend). But I just found it odd that it was for a World War 2 celebration. Seems like it would be more appropriate to just have a "hey look! my bomber, fighter, missile, etc is bigger than yours!" day.



Go Trojans! Fight On!
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13169 posts, RR: 78
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6648 times:

You cannot really compare US and Russian society in these respects.
There was in the USSR days a desire to flex muscles at these parades, but, again whatever you think of them politically, perhaps it's not so surprising that in a commemoration of WW2, they would show off their hardware, given how ingrained that event was on the Russian national psyche.
As far as the ordinary Russian is concerned, Hitler, Kaiser Wilhelm, and before them, Napoleon, (as well was Western intervention just after the Russian revolution), shows them they must be a militarily strong nation.

Of course, more recently Putin has capitalised on this, irrelevant as it may seem today.
Just think of the sheer casualties of WW2, we in the west cannot imagine it really.
The Nazis, don't forget, not only attacked to secure land, to topple the regime, but to exterminate large sections of the Russian people and enslave the rest.
Their WW2 death toll was nearly three quarters of the size of the WW2 UK population.

I think this report covered it well;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/10/russia

Edit-Added link.

[Edited 2008-05-11 01:00:27]

User currently offlineF27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6448 times:



Quoting GDB (Thread starter):
that killed some 27 million Russians

I'm sorry but I have to correct you here: 27 million Soviets (most of them were actually Ukrainian) of which about 20 million were civilans.

Many countries celebrate their victory by showing how strong they are now. Ever been in France on July the 14th?


User currently offlineCsturdiv From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6327 times:



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 10):
I'm sorry but I have to correct you here: 27 million Soviets (most of them were actually Ukrainian) of which about 20 million were civilans.

Within the past couple of weeks, I saw a show on The History Channel (I think) called Cities of the Underground and they were in the Ukraine, showing an underground base where some fierce fighting too place and a lot of soldiers were lost when they decided to blow up the underground base when the Nazi troops broke through and entered the base. The story was very gripping and something that I had not heard before. Looks like I have something to read about when I finish my current book (forget what it is called, but it is about George McGovern's time in the AAF during WW2 as a pilot in the B-24).



Posting from somewhere between KORD and KRFD
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8846 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6278 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 9):

It did cover it well, in modern times, I think if you lived through the fifties, at least here which is all I have to judge by, it is a sobering reminder of the old guard in the USSR, Nikita Khrushchev pounding on the podium at the UN and saying we will bury you, that kind of thinking still lurks in the new Russia is my guess. Gorbachev has passed into history, but Putin is an animal of the old order. KGB.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6271 times:



Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 11):
Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 10):
I'm sorry but I have to correct you here: 27 million Soviets (most of them were actually Ukrainian) of which about 20 million were civilans.

Within the past couple of weeks, I saw a show on The History Channel (I think) called Cities of the Underground and they were in the Ukraine, showing an underground base where some fierce fighting too place and a lot of soldiers were lost when they decided to blow up the underground base when the Nazi troops broke through and entered the base. The story was very gripping and something that I had not heard before. Looks like I have something to read about when I finish my current book (forget what it is called, but it is about George McGovern's time in the AAF during WW2 as a pilot in the B-24).

Yeah, it is amazing how little coverage the two largest tank battles in history got in the US when I was a kid.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineF27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6203 times:



Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 11):
Within the past couple of weeks, I saw a show on The History Channel (I think) called Cities of the Underground and they were in the Ukraine, showing an underground base where some fierce fighting too place and a lot of soldiers were lost when they decided to blow up the underground base when the Nazi troops broke through and entered the base. The story was very gripping and something that I had not heard before. Looks like I have something to read about when I finish my current book (forget what it is called, but it is about George McGovern's time in the AAF during WW2 as a pilot in the B-24).

I can recommend Ivan's War by Brittish Historian Catherin Merridale. It's on of few objective well written books about the Red Army.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 12):
It did cover it well, in modern times, I think if you lived through the fifties, at least here which is all I have to judge by, it is a sobering reminder of the old guard in the USSR, Nikita Khrushchev pounding on the podium at the UN and saying we will bury you, that kind of thinking still lurks in the new Russia is my guess. Gorbachev has passed into history, but Putin is an animal of the old order. KGB.

there is a lot of old frustration etc. boiling in the underbelly of mother russia for loosing the cold war. Let's hope it will not errupt. Likely they will use other means to "settle the scores" then war.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13169 posts, RR: 78
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6168 times:



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 12):
It did cover it well, in modern times, I think if you lived through the fifties, at least here which is all I have to judge by, it is a sobering reminder of the old guard in the USSR, Nikita Khrushchev pounding on the podium at the UN and saying we will bury you, that kind of thinking still lurks in the new Russia is my guess. Gorbachev has passed into history, but Putin is an animal of the old order. KGB.

On one of those shoe banging incidents at the UN, British PM Harold Macmillan was discussing the rapid de-colonisation throughout Africa, including his insistence on majority rule by democratic means (he had recently castigated South Africa on this), when Nikita The Peasant tried to interrupt by banging his shoe.
Macmillan replied Mr President, perhaps we could have a translation, I could not quite follow!

(Also worth remembering another time he banged his shoe, it was part of his boasting about producing ICBM's like 'sausages'.
In fact, at this time, he only had a handful of them).
So yes, sabre rattling then and now, in both cases, not all that much behind it.


User currently offlineACW367 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6143 times:



Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 6):
True, but when I see those pictures I wish here in the USA we would see similiar formations, such as a C-5 with a pair of F-15's on the wing, a B-1 with a pair of F-14's on the wing, a KC-135 trailed by B-52 with a pair of F-18's on the wing, 6 F-15's with 4 F-16's in mixed formation and an F-111 with a F-35.

This flypast was relatively small with a total of 32 participants. The Queens Birthday flypast over Buckingham Palace in the UK, which happens on the third weekend in June, usually has between 35 and 50 aircraft.

In recent years we have also had flypasts for the Queens 80th and the 25th anniversary of the Falklands war.

Here is a (amateur) video of the 80th Birthday one, with 49 aircraft in mixed formations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW8aUQxQ9D4

This year we will have another bigger one over RIAT Fairford to celebrate the 90th anniversary of the RAF. The biggest one I have seen was over abingdon on 15 September 1990 when 132 aircraft flew over to mark the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Britain.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6088 times:

Pretty cool.. love the smoke trails those Phantoms leave behind ! Big grin

The main battle tank looks pretty impressive , what model is that monster ? Is that a updated model of the ZSU-23 AA platform ? (pics)



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13169 posts, RR: 78
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

ACW367, true, but we don't have troops on parade goose stepping!

User currently offlineACW367 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6067 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
ACW367, true, but we don't have troops on parade goose stepping

The Queens Birthday flypast follows on from Trooping the colour on Horseguards Parade. We've got the troops covered. Although I don't think a band on horseback is quite as impressive as Nuclear Missiles and Main Battle Tanks.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13169 posts, RR: 78
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5973 times:

I certainly do not think that the British public would be too impressed with a Trident SLBM, even a dummy round, being part of any parade, whatever their views on the UK having this system.
But, just across the Channel, France has, in the past, displayed nuclear missiles as part of the Bastille Day parade!


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