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Northrop Sets Tanker Complex Groundbreaking  
User currently offlineSeefivein From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8318062


let the digging move on...

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12178 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Construction start date of 28 June? Or is that the date NG applies for the SWIPP (storm water inlet protection plan)? A SWIPP takes about 90 days for approval in Texas, so I assume it is about the same lenght of time in Alabama.

Since there is a stop all work order from the USAF, I doubt NG can even apply for the SWIPP now. Construction cannot begin until the SWIPP (and all other environmential or legal issues solved) is issued.

How long will construction to reach initial occupency take to complete? Initial occupency would be the earliest date NG can begin installing non-construction related tooling.

19 June 2008 is a Thursday. A lot of people will be watching for the GAO report on Boeing's protest that day.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12868 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2932 times:
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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
19 June 2008 is a Thursday. A lot of people will be watching for the GAO report on Boeing's protest that day.

That's the latest the GAO can announce its decision. I assume there's absolutely nothing to stop them announcing any time before that date if they've finished their work.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2435 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
Construction start date of 28 June? Or is that the date NG applies for the SWIPP (storm water inlet protection plan)? A SWIPP takes about 90 days for approval in Texas, so I assume it is about the same lenght of time in Alabama.

Since there is a stop all work order from the USAF, I doubt NG can even apply for the SWIPP now. Construction cannot begin until the SWIPP (and all other environmential or legal issues solved) is issued.

How long will construction to reach initial occupency take to complete? Initial occupency would be the earliest date NG can begin installing non-construction related tooling.

19 June 2008 is a Thursday. A lot of people will be watching for the GAO report on Boeing's protest that day.

I'm not sure, but i believe that this will be much more of a ceremonial groundbreaking with press reports and the governor than a practical groundbreaking where people start building it. The scene likely will change minimally in the days following the "groundbreaking".

Regardless.... I can't wait until the 19th!

In case anyone's interested, the Brooklet Complex, where the tankers will be assembled, has a new website.
http://www.brookleycomplex.com/

I like this sentence on the history page best: "The origins of the Port City becoming one of the world’s premier centers for aircraft design and assembly center on an area now known as Brookley and reach back 115 years"


User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2344 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
Construction start date of 28 June? Or is that the date NG applies for the SWIPP (storm water inlet protection plan)? A SWIPP takes about 90 days for approval in Texas, so I assume it is about the same lenght of time in Alabama.

With the state government highly involved, particularly the governor's office, this will take very little time - in fact, it's probably already done. AL is very business friendly and very proactive in site selection competitions, one of their aces in the hole is to have all of the approvals lined up prior to the completion of site selection when possible. This eliminates or reduces risk and is a big plus in competitions.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
Since there is a stop all work order from the USAF, I doubt NG can even apply for the SWIPP now. Construction cannot begin until the SWIPP (and all other environmential or legal issues solved) is issued.

Why would the state give a damn about a US gov stop work order? NG/EADS want to build industrial buildings, no more, no less.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 3):
I'm not sure, but i believe that this will be much more of a ceremonial groundbreaking with press reports and the governor than a practical groundbreaking where people start building it. The scene likely will change minimally in the days following the "groundbreaking".

Being more than a week after the GAO deadline, I'd bet this is the real deal and they'll start busting up the runway within days after the groundbreaking. I wouldn't be shocked if they actually started before the ceremonial groundbreaking.



Where are all of my respected members going?
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9290 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2270 times:



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 4):
AL is very business friendly and very proactive in site selection competitions, one of their aces in the hole is to have all of the approvals lined up prior to the completion of site selection when possible. This eliminates or reduces risk and is a big plus in competitions

Ah yes! another drinker of the cool-aid provided by big business and the so caring politicians who play this game of competition between the states and the world. I guess the outsourcing of defense work to non-US companies (NG/Eads) is nothing as long Alabama gets a share.(why we find ourselves in this mess) These corporations and politicians play everyone like a fiddle in this ploy to get a factory located in an area. Like the song goes(when will we ever learn)



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineBuss61 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2221 times:



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):

Corporations and politicians??? If you even knew half of what you were talking about then you would realize that the government does things the way they do according to a greater plan. It really has nothing to do with Alabama getting a share, thats just the way the cookie crumbles. And so what if we out source work, your not really taking away jobs or money out of US citizens pockets buy letting a foriegn country do some work for you. I dont know if you noticed but theres plenty of work out there for everyone.



Any Time Baby!!!
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12868 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2196 times:
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Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):
I guess the outsourcing of defense work to non-US companies (NG/Eads)

NG is a non-US company now?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2151 times:



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):
Ah yes! another drinker of the cool-aid provided by big business and the so caring politicians who play this game of competition between the states and the world. I guess the outsourcing of defense work to non-US companies (NG/Eads) is nothing as long Alabama gets a share.(why we find ourselves in this mess) These corporations and politicians play everyone like a fiddle in this ploy to get a factory located in an area. Like the song goes(when will we ever learn)

It's been working very well here for the last 10-12 years. We're not the mess, it's places stuck in 50 year old ways of doing business like Detroit for example that are in a mess.



Where are all of my respected members going?
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9290 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2068 times:



Quoting Buss61 (Reply 6):


Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):


Corporations and politicians??? If you even knew half of what you were talking about then you would realize that the government does things the way they do according to

Give me a break, the corporations play you folks like fools. The state officials slaver over the jobs. Have you ever heard the old one, divide and conquer, they are pro's at it and you folks cannot wait to kiss their butts. If they they do business on US soil, they owe us, we do not owe them, get real! I guess you subscribe to the notion that a job is a priviledge now also. I suggest coming back when you have a little more experiance in life and how it works.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9290 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2062 times:



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 8):
It's been working very well here for the last 10-12 years. We're not the mess, it's places stuck in 50 year old ways of doing business like Detroit for example that are in a mess.

I am sure it has for you folks down in Alabama. You are all fat and happy with defense work and I guess you do not care about any other considerations, just the federal buck and corporate buck. when your infrastructure is worn and torn like the old manufacturing areas and polluted by those new jobs, watch how quickly, it can go away. I am sure those corporate types will say, we owe those Alabamians for giving us all those incentives.Sure! If your influence in congress wanes, watchout on that score also, defense jobs have been known to fly away like tanker aircraft.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9290 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2055 times:



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 7):



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 7):


Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):
I guess the outsourcing of defense work to non-US companies (NG/Eads)

NG is a non-US company now

Let us not nitpick on the subject, the basis of the proposal is foreign design, foreign made, US assembled. Where would NG be without EADS on this venture? I guess they could have partnered with Boeing and we would not be having this discussion. Boeing/NG or NG/ Boeing, either would be acceptable to me.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2037 times:



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 10):
You are all fat and happy with defense work and I guess you do not care about any other considerations, just the federal buck and corporate buck. when your infrastructure is worn and torn like the old manufacturing areas and polluted by those new jobs, watch how quickly, it can go away.

Defense, autos, electronics, drugs, medical research, steel, railcars, etc. Yeah, we're putting all our eggs in one big polluting basket here in the last decade. Lengthening runways, doubling the size of the state docks, upgrading the rail system, etc. - definitely putting the hurt on our infrastructure.  sarcastic 



Where are all of my respected members going?
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9290 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2015 times:



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 12):

I suggest you read the history of the Northeast manufacturing and the defense establishment jobs. I did not say it would happen tomorrow. Taxes, wages and energy costs are the main resaons the Northeast is in decline, along with the staggering costs of replacing the old infrastructure here. I still do not want to send aircraft jobs over there to further Alabama's march to economic and political greatness. How is the wage structure there? I am curious, what is the average wage now with all that prosperity? Are all the people sharing the wealth, or just the defense and auto workers?



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2008 times:



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 13):
I suggest you read the history of the Northeast manufacturing and the defense establishment jobs.

I'm well familiar with it and have in fact worked for several defense contractors in the Northeast including Boeing. You've nailed a number of reasons for the problems in the NE but forgot a few big ones, i.e. Nimby problems, out of control Unions, government regulations, etc.

For example, I worked for a company in NJ that had a product which was a compressed air launcher for explosives used to create controlled avalanches. Due to NJ laws, we had to outsource all production, warehousing, etc. for this product as it was not possible to do it legally in the State. I can understand not handling the ammo for it, but we couldn't take a piece of tubing and chuck it in a lathe if it was for the purpose of making a part for one of these guns without getting in trouble.

One other note, there still is a lot of defense work going on in the NE but it's generally the smaller, more agile companies that are doing well as they've adapted better to a changing environment.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 13):
How is the wage structure there? I am curious, what is the average wage now with all that prosperity?

About 10-15% less than NE for example but with a cost of living 25-35% lower it's not much of an issue.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 13):
Are all the people sharing the wealth, or just the defense and auto workers?

Again, it's not just defense and auto workers, the new industries coming in here are extremely diverse. However, the answer is that everybody is being lifted up by this as we have historically low unemployment and help wanted signs and ads are everywhere. It's still a sellers market here. Another interesting statistic, foreclosures here are declining recently vs increasing in other places.



Where are all of my respected members going?
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9290 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1977 times:



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 14):
well familiar with it and have in fact worked for several defense contractors in the Northeast including Boeing. You've nailed a number of reasons for the problems in the NE but forgot a few big ones, i.e. Nimby problems, out of control Unions, government regulations, etc

If the prosperity continues and the complications of that prosperity like overspending by the local and state governments, also higher spending on education because of higher population and curruption and influence peddling, do not happen, you will have done something which has eluded every other once prosperous state.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineSeefivein From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1766 times:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/10998.html

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