TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3311 posts, RR: 33 Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3150 times:
I don't really know, but I could imagine that some flyable F-4s are transferred to Wittmund now. Obviously this means that the EF is combat ready now. I find it somewhat surprising that the fly-out took place during the Euro in Austria. Obviously the introduction of the EF went well.
According to this article, the F-4s are still in Neuburg in order to guard the airspace during the Euro. So much about the "fly out". 10 F-4s will be transferred to Wittmund after the Euro, meaning that Neuburg will be Eurofighter-only after that date.
CX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4365 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3120 times:
A tip of the cap to a great design who has served Germany well for many years.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3311 posts, RR: 33 Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3071 times:
Quoting CX747 (Reply 4): A tip of the cap to a great design who has served Germany well for many years.
True, it served since the beginning of the 70s, and ironically, it was intended as a relatively low-cost solution, for example were the F-4Fs significantly less capable than the F-4Es (no aerial refuelling, no Sparrows). However, the F-4s still flying are AMRAAM equipped and certainly not to be completely underestimated. But according to the reports, they are no real match for the Eurofighter
LimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 364 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2886 times:
Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter): Neuburg, the south german Phantom air base said good-bye to the F-4 this week.
Where are these machines going? Could a civilian (with sufficient means, of course) purchase one of these?
TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3311 posts, RR: 33 Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2856 times:
Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 7): Where are these machines going? Could a civilian (with sufficient means, of course) purchase one of these?
Most go to Wittmund. I guess they cannibalise older ones to keep a sufficient number flying until 2012.
Buying demilitarised equipment from the German AF is not that easy, I guess, but I know that some G-91 and especially Alpha Jet made it into private hands, the Red Bull Team uses ex-Luftwaffe Alpha Jets, if I am not mistaken.
But you can be sure that all F-4s are extremely worn, as the last ones were introduced around 1974. They are limited to 6.5 Gs anyway...
NicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1029 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2850 times:
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 8): Most go to Wittmund. I guess they cannibalise older ones to keep a sufficient number flying until 2012.
So ripping down the most worn Phantoms for spares is the way to go, as I guess over 30 to 40 year old warfighters don't have that much worth on 2nd hand market anyway?
Are the F4 replaced on a 1-1 base with Typhoon, meaning that for every Eurofighter coming a Phantom will leave (for spares tear down)?
TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3311 posts, RR: 33 Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2848 times:
Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 9): So ripping down the most worn Phantoms for spares is the way to go, as I guess over 30 to 40 year old warfighters don't have that much worth on 2nd hand market anyway?
Are the F4 replaced on a 1-1 base with Typhoon, meaning that for every Eurofighter coming a Phantom will leave (for spares tear down)?
Germany gets 180 EF, but they are intendet not only to replace the Phantom, but also some Tornados. So the total number will be less than the number of Phantoms and Tornados, but since the Cold War is over, this is not a big issue as less planes are needed anyway. But I guess the current number of Phantoms was not that big anymore anyway, so that they are replaced roughly by a 1:1 basis.
I guess you would not find any customer for the worn Phantoms anyway, as the plane really has reached the end of its useful life. I also doubt that every state would be given access to the F-18 Radar and AMRAAM missile package, which the F-4 got in the early 1990s.
The older RF-4Es were sold in the early 90s, but now we have 2008, meaning that the youngest plane is 34 years old. Not much life left in them.
NoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7477 posts, RR: 15 Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2767 times:
Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 7): Could a civilian (with sufficient means, of course) purchase one of these?
You could visit VBEG's website ( http://www.vebeg.de/ ) from time to time and check if they sell the fuselages of some of those Phantoms.
Right now they try to sell a former coast guard ship which - I think - will look great with some fresh paint.
Beautiful things can be built even from stones placed in your way. - Goethe
DL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11372 posts, RR: 88 Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2709 times:
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 5): But according to the reports, they are no real match for the Eurofighter
Well, with the AIM-120 missiles they're a match for anything in the sky, until you get inside BVR ranges. Then they're at the disadvantage, and would have to run (still fast as hell, though, once tanks and ordnance dropped and clean).
Great design and still going to be around for years.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12357 posts, RR: 83 Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2200 times:
What a classic design, not bad for what what originally a naval interceptor for the nuclear age.
(The procurement of F-4's, despite coming from a bunch of cancelled/botched home projects, was the right move for the UK in the 60's too).
Sponsor Message: 
From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3311 posts, 
From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4365 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 472 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
