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RAF Exchange Pilot Flys F-22 To UK  
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 16928 times:

One learns something every day. I never knew that pilots from allied air forces were allowed to fly the F-22. This gent is an instructor pilot as well.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-flawless-first-transatlantic.html

Quote:
The deployment took place at altitudes of up to the high-20,000ft bracket, said RAF F-22 exchange pilot Flt Lt Dan Robinson, who had the distinction of landing the first Raptor to touch down on UK soil. Also an instructor on the US type, Robinson (below) was formerly a qualified weapons instructor on the RAF’s Panavia Tornado F3 fighter.



Quote:
Following the detachment’s return home after the opening day of Farnborough, Robinson says the 27th AF >FS will in late August participate in a dissimilar air combat exercise to be hosted at a yet-to-be confirmed location in the USA.

The USAF’s F-22 community faces a continued challenge in finding suitable opponents to practice air-to-air combat, with the type’s participation in a recent Cope Thunder exercise in Canada having seen it record a combat success ratio of 144:0. “It’s a very real problem to find a suitable adversary,” says Robinson.

I hope this "very real problem" continues well into the future!

[Edited 2008-07-12 09:09:12]


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 938 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16907 times:

It warmes the cockles of the heart...Its even better cos he LOOKS like a Brit.  Silly


Yes, F22s are expensive, more expensive than anything else out there.
Yes noone else is allowed to buy any, even if they could afford one.
Yes, apparently they are happy to let other people have a play with the toys  Smile

Maybye the adversary for the F22 would be a swarm of essentially disposable, stealthy drones. Let the F22 destroy as many as it has weapons capacity, but a few could get through and launch a missile. May even be cheaper than buying an F22 too!


User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16890 times:



Quoting GST (Reply 1):
Yes, F22s are expensive, more expensive than anything else out there.

Hehe with the continued devaluation of the dollar, Typhoon is catching up fast!!


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13253 posts, RR: 77
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16842 times:

Not unusual, when you consider that at least one RAF exchange pilot flew the F-117, before it was publicly unveiled in 1988.
Perhaps during rumoured deployments to the UK in the mid 1980's.

Also, when you consider that there is close collaboration in areas like intelligence gathering, nuclear weapons and low observable technologies, going back some 50 years.
The X-32 and X-35 prototypes for JSF also had two British Harrier pilots involved in flying these types during the fly off in 2000-2001.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 16665 times:

I've known of several NATO member pilots which were very much part of the training squadrons at Lackland AFB in the 80s and participated in everything their USAF peers did including fly such types as the then new F-15 which were not part of any of their nations fleets.

Additionally I've heard of other allied pilots being pretty much seconded to various US units including a Canadian CF-18 pilot I ran across which served with the US Navy Pacific fleet.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16615 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 3):
Also, when you consider that there is close collaboration in areas like intelligence gathering, nuclear weapons and low observable technologies, going back some 50 years.
The X-32 and X-35 prototypes for JSF also had two British Harrier pilots involved in flying these types during the fly off in 2000-2001.

Well, given the UK was interested in the JSF, the latter is not surprising.

Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 2):
Hehe with the continued devaluation of the dollar, Typhoon is catching up fast!!

More like the Typhoon looked cheap before because of undervaluation of the Euro and Pound.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13253 posts, RR: 77
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16492 times:

True ATMX, but that's my point, I do not know if there is really any kind of restriction with NATO pilots flying the F-22.
If there is, which I very much doubt, then given the UK's presence on F-35 and the others I've mentioned, probably it would not included them anyway.

It is also useful of course to have some of your personnel very familiar with systems your own forces will likely be operating with.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16485 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 6):
It is also useful of course to have some of your personnel very familiar with systems your own forces will likely be operating with.

So can one presume that there are USAF pilots flying Typhoon?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 938 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16459 times:



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7):

I'd say its likely to be planned, if not happening already.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4466 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 16358 times:

The US & UK share a special bond and plenty of Brit pilots have been given opportunities in America's finest aircraft.

The F-22 is an expensive bird but boy oh boy is it capable. 144:0 is nothing to laugh, smile or yawn at. Hopefully the USAF can get an additional 2-4 squadrons and for the most part replace the F-15Cs in front line service.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12961 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16335 times:



Quoting GST (Reply 1):
It warmes the cockles of the heart...Its even better cos he LOOKS like a Brit. Silly

Nah, his teeth aren't crooked enough!  Smile



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1015 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16313 times:

I am a personal friend (although not particularly close) of USAF Major General Burt Field Jr. who recently finished a year as Wing Commander of the 332nd Wing in Iraq. Our fathers flew F-86 Sabres together in combat in Korea as well as going to school together at the University of Florida. Burt Jr. was the commander of the 1st FW at Langley Virginia when they received the F-22. He has a few thousand hours in F-16's. He said he cannot describe what it's like to fly the F-22 not because he didn't want to divulge secrets but because it's truly indescribable. He did confirm the stories about the F-22's hunting prowess written in an issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology in the Spring of 2007. I asked him point blank about meeting up with the latest Sukhois, Typhoons, Rafales, Migs. His reply was without question he would take the F-22 and while those are fine and deadly fighters, the F-22 is simply too capable. He said the perfect kill scores in the various Nellis war games are not made up. He certainly didn't tell me anything I hadn't already read in AW&ST or Flight International, but his kind and knowing smile told me all I need to know about his opinion and confidence in the F-22. Here is the link to his official U.S.A.F. biography. One of the nicest and most modest people you will ever meet. As is common though, that calm and quiet veneer conceal a very capable figher pilot.

http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=7870

Harvey Brown
Delray Beach, Florida


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4466 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 16260 times:

In the past 2-3 weeks I think I saw an few photos on af.mil of an USAF exchange pilot strapping into a Typhoon. You would be surprised about what exchange pilots are able to see and do when they operate within another countries AF.

I have a book on the F-117 and it talks about the first two Brits in the program. They were shown classified documents on the US's stealth program/technology but could no share it with their own governments! One even said that when he got back to England, he couldn't help stear a British program from going down the wrong track in regards to stealth. He just had to sit back and watch them make the wrong turn in regards to how they were going to move forward.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineWvsuperhornet From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 517 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15947 times:



Quoting GST (Reply 1):
It warmes the cockles of the heart...Its even better cos he LOOKS like a Brit.


Yes, F22s are expensive, more expensive than anything else out there.
Yes noone else is allowed to buy any, even if they could afford one.
Yes, apparently they are happy to let other people have a play with the toys

Maybye the adversary for the F22 would be a swarm of essentially disposable, stealthy drones. Let the F22 destroy as many as it has weapons capacity, but a few could get through and launch a missile. May even be cheaper than buying an F22 too!

someone touch a nerve there GST?????


User currently offlineRheinwaldner From Switzerland, joined Jan 2008, 2289 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15868 times:



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7):
So can one presume that there are USAF pilots flying Typhoon?



Quoting GST (Reply 8):
I'd say its likely to be planned, if not happening already.

Check this:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...news/2005/03/mil-050322-afpn02.htm

General Jumper is quite positive about the EF!


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13253 posts, RR: 77
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15802 times:

Thanks for the link Rheinwaldner, we'll save that for a certain member with a bit of a Typhoon obsession!

The question is, will the USAF or RAF eventually end up with the larger number of F-22 or Typhoon's respectively?


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 15491 times:

Quote from the FlightGlobal website :- ..."Three F-22s landed at RAF Fairford in Gloucestershire on 8 July, following a 7h 45min transit flight from Langley AFB, Virginia"

...That figure of 7 hours 45 minutes struck a chord in my mind !

Just out of curiosity I decided to work out the Great Circle distance (that is the shortest distance between two points on the surface of the Earth) between Langley, USA and Fairford, U.K. and which turns out to be 3168 nautical miles.

By comparison the Great Circle distance between New York JFK and London Heathrow turns out to be 2990 nautical miles and which was flown in 7 hours 48 minutes by a piston engine P51 Mustang 57 years ago in 1951.

So I suppose the F22's did actually fly 178 miles further and in a magnificent 3 minutes less. ...But hey! everybody is calling the F22 the best fighter in the World.  duck 

Anyway I will leave you guy's to consider what these figures say about the F22. ...As for the P51 Mustang and it's Rolls Royce Merlin engine that was rapidly cobbled together at the height of World War 2. ..."Well clearly that was a really Storming flying machine"


User currently offlineChecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15351 times:



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 16):
Quote from the FlightGlobal website :- ..."Three F-22s landed at RAF Fairford in Gloucestershire on 8 July, following a 7h 45min transit flight from Langley AFB, Virginia"

...That figure of 7 hours 45 minutes struck a chord in my mind !

Just out of curiosity I decided to work out the Great Circle distance (that is the shortest distance between two points on the surface of the Earth) between Langley, USA and Fairford, U.K. and which turns out to be 3168 nautical miles.

By comparison the Great Circle distance between New York JFK and London Heathrow turns out to be 2990 nautical miles and which was flown in 7 hours 48 minutes by a piston engine P51 Mustang 57 years ago in 1951.

So I suppose the F22's did actually fly 178 miles further and in a magnificent 3 minutes less. ...But hey! everybody is calling the F22 the best fighter in the World.

Anyway I will leave you guy's to consider what these figures say about the F22. ...As for the P51 Mustang and it's Rolls Royce Merlin engine that was rapidly cobbled together at the height of World War 2. ..."Well clearly that was a really Storming flying machine"

Your handle is ferrypilot and you cannot figure out why they may have taken longer than you expected??


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15263 times:



Quoting Checksixx (Reply 17):
Your handle is ferrypilot and you cannot figure out why they may have taken longer than you expected??

I really have no expectations about the F-22. ...At face value the figures simply look rather amusing when placed in contrast with those of the World War 2 vintage P51C on it's record breaking New York to London flight. And so I thought I would have some fun with this. ...Apparently you have no sense of humour.


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14498 times:



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 16):
Quote from the FlightGlobal website :- ..."Three F-22s landed at RAF Fairford in Gloucestershire on 8 July, following a 7h 45min transit flight from Langley AFB, Virginia"

...That figure of 7 hours 45 minutes struck a chord in my mind !

Just out of curiosity I decided to work out the Great Circle distance (that is the shortest distance between two points on the surface of the Earth) between Langley, USA and Fairford, U.K. and which turns out to be 3168 nautical miles.

By comparison the Great Circle distance between New York JFK and London Heathrow turns out to be 2990 nautical miles and which was flown in 7 hours 48 minutes by a piston engine P51 Mustang 57 years ago in 1951.

So I suppose the F22's did actually fly 178 miles further and in a magnificent 3 minutes less. ...But hey! everybody is calling the F22 the best fighter in the World.

Anyway I will leave you guy's to consider what these figures say about the F22. ...As for the P51 Mustang and it's Rolls Royce Merlin engine that was rapidly cobbled together at the height of World War 2. ..."Well clearly that was a really Storming flying machine"

PILOT magazine published in the U.K. seems to have found my comment above sufficiently interesting to publish it, ...appears on page 35 of the September 2008 edition.


User currently offlineJohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 957 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 14468 times:

With all this talk about who we should or shouldn't sell the F22 to, I wonder if we would've sold it to the Brits if they wanted it? I know this is hypothetical because they have the Typhoon, but I'd say yes.

User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4871 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 3 hours ago) and read 14265 times:
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Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7):
So can one presume that there are USAF pilots flying Typhoon?

I recall an article in the last year about an American exchange pilot flying a Rafale.

Quoting Johns624 (Reply 20):
With all this talk about who we should or shouldn't sell the F22 to, I wonder if we would've sold it to the Brits if they wanted it? I know this is hypothetical because they have the Typhoon, but I'd say yes.

The Uk wouldn't want a downgraded F22 just like they were (are still ) miffed about providing 20% of F35 development costs and not being able to get full access to software codes


User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 938 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14200 times:



Quoting Trex8 (Reply 21):
The Uk wouldn't want a downgraded F22 just like they were (are still ) miffed about providing 20% of F35 development costs and not being able to get full access to software codes

Lets not forget that the UK is getting well under 20% of the aircraft too, so the investment per unit is much higher for our government. Possibly one of the few things I respect your current president for is trying to give the UK full software access.


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