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Opps!  
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2570 times:

On the more positive note there are a lot of SUV's out there that can be bought at a good price to replace it.


< http://safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/a...chive/archive_251-300/photo297.htm >

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5629 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

Quoting LMP737 (Thread starter):
Opps!

Perhaps you meant "Oops!"?
:D

Of course this Oops will not be good for the F-16 pilots career. May not stop his career (it might though, who wants a pilot that doesn't know to confirm targets flying for them?) but a note will certainly be placed in his file.

Tugg

[Edited 2008-07-24 18:03:08]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

So does the USAF use regular HE 20mm rounds for target practice, or practice slugs (no explosive)? I think I see shrapnel holes on the inner panel of the truck, but can't be sure.


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineF4wso From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

Thank goodness it was practice instead of High Explosive Incendiary.
Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA



Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2224 times:



Quoting LY744 (Reply 2):
So does the USAF use regular HE 20mm rounds for target practice, or practice slugs (no explosive)? I think I see shrapnel holes on the inner panel of the truck, but can't be sure.

you can get shrapnel from solid rounds. Either from what the round hit or the round comming apart. on a different scale, I had some really horrid .22LR rounds that would leave a hole in the front of a milk carton and the back looked like I took a shot shell to it. I have no idea how well practice rounds for the cannon are constructed, but on some level I doubt they are made well enough not to have some fragmentation issues hitting stuff... Even if they are bits of the outer skin of the SUV breaking off at high velocity become projectiles too.


User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2205 times:



Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
I had some really horrid .22LR rounds

I hear the faster .17s explode on contact with anything from a blade of grass to a piece of paper.


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2116 times:



Quoting LY744 (Reply 5):
I hear the faster .17s explode on contact with anything from a blade of grass to a piece of paper.

Wouldn't know, not going to pay $$$$ for a new less good rifle to fire ammo that costs $$$ when I can just get some of the ultra hot loaded .22LR loads they have. Anyway it seems to be really dependant on the maker how tough the bullets are for .22LR. Wouldn't suprise me though that the .17's do that at all.


User currently offlineJohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2112 times:



Quoting LY744 (Reply 5):
I hear the faster .17s explode on contact with anything from a blade of grass to a piece of paper.

Just a slight exaggeration. By the way, all .17HMR ammo is loaded by Hornady, so buy whatever is cheapest, whether Federal, Hornady, Winchester or Remington.


User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 2074 times:

From the article, "The soldiers had been training to identify enemy targets and direct aircraft to fire on them.". I hope they were RTU'd & don't end up as FACs in Afghanistan. It's difficult for a pilot at speed & altitude to identify a target that size. While he must accept some of the blame, he was depending on the trainee ground controllers to put him on the target. Range targets are often scrap civilian pattern vehicles, so it wouldn't be obvious at first glance.


Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineF4wso From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2004 times:



Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 8):
so it wouldn't be obvious at first glance.

The pilot should have enough situational awareness to know which range complex he is cleared into and the boundaries of that area. If a gross error like this happens in a controlled training environment, I hope it was his fini flight, at least in a single seat fighter cockpit. It was the pilot's finger in the trigger, not the FAC.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA



Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2003 times:



Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 8):
From the article, "The soldiers had been training to identify enemy targets and direct aircraft to fire on them."

In the end it said the soldiers in the SUV were not working with that particular F-16 but "part of a different project on the range".


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1966 times:



Quoting LY744 (Reply 10):
In the end it said the soldiers in the SUV were not working with that particular F-16

My mistake, I missed that part.

So, was this pilot in contact with anyone? It was my impression that flights firing live ordnance at least work with the clearance of a range controller, if for no other reason than to deconflict traffic (but usually to score hits as well).



Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1954 times:



Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 11):
So, was this pilot in contact with anyone?

Must have been... the two things that surprise me most about this whole thing are:

1. That the soldiers were allowed to be within 1.5 miles of a target

2. That they managed to get out of the Suburban in time!


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 1864 times:



Quoting LY744 (Reply 12):
That the soldiers were allowed to be within 1.5 miles of a target

That is odd. That would be inside the safety template for a .50 cal, never mind a 20mm!



Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineF4wso From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

A mile and a half is not that unreasonalble. When I worked as a range officer at Hardwood in Wisconsin, I had loggers working on the south side of the range and F-16s dropping on the north targets, approximately 1/2 to 3/4 miles apart. Clear zones were from footprints based on the circular error average of the munitions.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA



Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1748 times:



Quoting F4wso (Reply 3):
Thank goodness it was practice instead of High Explosive Incendiary.

Thanl goodness it was an F-16 and not an A-10.  Smile


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