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Usaf Bgen Suicide  
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8769 times:

How much further will this branch's reputation suffer? Now we have a BGen who committed suicide. His prior assignment was as XO to Gen. Moseley, recently ousted COS. I hope Secretary Gates can quickly right this floundering ship. It's not good for morale when a senior officer exits in this manner. Who knows what skeletons he had in his closet that led him to take an expedient, but very selfish, exit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/air_force...;_ylt=At9JrXGqRFG9LJdp3luxavys0NUE


My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8762 times:

They are just calling it a "Self-Inflicted" wound at this point, so an accidental discharge can't be ruled out. But the reports up here are that no note was left.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/477369.html



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8759 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
They are just calling it a "Self-Inflicted" wound at this point, so an accidental discharge can't be ruled out. But the reports up here are that no note was left.

I always assumed "self-inflicted" referred to a deliberately inflicted wound whereas an accidentally inflicted wound was always referred to as an "accidental discharge". I guess time will tell which of these events befell BGen Tinsley. And, of course, suicides don't always leave a note behind. The most famous and high ranking suicide in U.S. military history was CNO Adm. Boorda who died of a "self-inflicted" gunshot wound to the chest (just like BGen Tinsley); although, he did leave behind a suicide note.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineSprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1855 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8741 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 2):
The most famous and high ranking suicide in U.S. military history was CNO Adm. Boorda who died of a "self-inflicted" gunshot wound to the chest (just like BGen Tinsley); although, he did leave behind a suicide note.

And the shame about that was he started as an enlisted guy, and made it all the way to CNO. I beleive one of the reasons he did it was he was caught wearing a medal that he didn't earn and the press hounded him bad about it.

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineTropicBird From United States of America, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8732 times:

There is more going on here. Kenneth Miller is also leaving and he is currently under investigation for speaking out (to the public) on the C-17 and KC-X program's. What he told some people was non-public information.


Kenneth E. Miller, who served as special assistant for Air Force acquisition under former Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne, has stepped down, according to service spokesman Lt. Col. Mike Paoli. Miller was expected to resign shortly after Wynne's departure last month, Paoli said.

But two congressional aides familiar with the matter said Miller was being investigated by the service for allegedly leaking information to the public before the government disclosed it. The aides requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the probe.

Paoli declined to comment on any internal Air Force investigation of Miller.




Link to article:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080728/air_force_second_resignation.html?.v=2


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8727 times:

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 3):
I beleive one of the reasons he did it was he was caught wearing a medal that he didn't earn and the press hounded him bad about it.

That was the official reason given for his suicide (not that I doubt it, it's just that with suicides there are always a multitude of reasons for offing oneself, but it takes just one event to push the person over the edge). But wasn't his wearing of the ribbon/medal deemed appropriate post-mortem? I think former CNO Adm. Zumwalt went on the record as stating that Adm. Boorda was authorized to wear it.

[Edited 2008-07-28 20:52:16]


My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineJgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8639 times:

The yahoo article states the wound was to the chest? Seems like if you really wanted to kill yourself the temple would be the guaranteed place to get the job done.

User currently offlineSprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1855 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 8507 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 5):
But wasn't his wearing of the ribbon/medal deemed appropriate post-mortem? I think former CNO Adm. Zumwalt went on the record as stating that Adm. Boorda was authorized to wear it.

IIRC some board decided that the "V" on the ribbon wasn't authorized. Wiki states he was hounded also by "ring knockers" of Canoe U by the way he handled the "Tailhook" thing(didn't cover it up as they wanted).
My nephew was stationed at marine barracks 8th and I when it happened, he said that they went to a high alert status, sent to the CNO residence fully "locked and loaded", due to they didn't know what had happened, and if was it an attack or not.

Sad to see some of the top brass thinking that suicide is the only way out.  Sad

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 8470 times:



Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 6):
The yahoo article states the wound was to the chest? Seems like if you really wanted to kill yourself the temple would be the guaranteed place to get the job done.

Lots of suicides by gun are to the chest, including Adm. Boorda's. Many suicides will do it so that their loved ones won't be traumatized more than they already are when they have to look at the face either at the morgue or at the wake/funeral.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineChecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 13 hours ago) and read 8320 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Thread starter):
How much further will this branch's reputation suffer?

Unless there is some connection with his death and something he did wrong, there is no negative mark on our branch because of this. Suicides happen MUCH more often that what you hear of...this being news worthy only because of his rank. I worked for him, he was a good, honest guy back then.

Quoting RedFlyer (Thread starter):
I hope Secretary Gates can quickly right this floundering ship

Gates hates the Air Force. Why would he want anything fixed? He's probably having a great time with it.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 2):
I always assumed "self-inflicted" referred to a deliberately inflicted wound whereas an accidentally inflicted wound was always referred to as an "accidental discharge".

Self inflicted is used regardless if it was deliberate or not.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 8309 times:



Quoting Checksixx (Reply 9):
Gates hates the Air Force.

I don't think Gates rally hates the AF - but he sure gets angry when he gives orders and AF Generals don't bother to follow them. I imagine that he's also rather angry over the KC-X FUBAR, and he has a right to be.

From a distance it appears that the AF has lost its way in a lot of areas. The embarrassment of the religious nuts at the AF Academe to the impropriety with the tanker procurement process.

One hopes that whoever follows Gates next year will continue to stay on top of the AF in their mess.


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 8292 times:



Quoting Checksixx (Reply 9):
Unless there is some connection with his death and something he did wrong, there is no negative mark on our branch because of this.

Respectfully, I disagree. While I'm not saying his death is connected in anyway with something he might have done wrong, the manner of his death is highly irregular for a general grade officer and regardless of the reasons he did it, it will have an impact on morale. His stature as a leader has crumbled because of what he did. But that's just my opinion.

Quoting Checksixx (Reply 9):
Suicides happen MUCH more often that what you hear of...this being news worthy only because of his rank.

I know suicides happen more frequently than what's reported. However, suicide rates in the military are slightly higher than in the general civilian population. But, as you point out, this news is somewhat shocking, and newsworthy, because of his rank.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 8251 times:

The most f*cked up thing about Boorda's suicide was he actually was entitled to wear the medal they claimed he didn't have the right to wear. He essentially killed himself for nothing.

Andrea Kent


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 8233 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 12):
The most f*cked up thing about Boorda's suicide was he actually was entitled to wear the medal they claimed he didn't have the right to wear. He essentially killed himself for nothing.

I thik there was some contention later on about it in the years after his death, saying he was, then he wasnt....it wasn't about an actual medal IIRC but the Valor "V" device he was wearing on two medals.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 8208 times:



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
One hopes that whoever follows Gates next year will continue to stay on top of the AF in their mess

Honestly, Gates is the 1 guy I think has a shot at getting held over by the Obama administration. There is a bit of a tradition of doing that.

Unfortunately GW got himself stick with Tenet 8 years ago, so it doesn't always work out.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 8):
Many suicides will do it so that their loved ones won't be traumatized more than they already are when they have to look at the face either at the morgue or at the wake/funeral.

Awfully nice of them. But you are correct. I think most of these guys know what a bullet does.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineChecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8060 times:



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 13):
I thik there was some contention later on about it in the years after his death, saying he was, then he wasnt....it wasn't about an actual medal IIRC but the Valor "V" device he was wearing on two medals.

DeltaGuy

Anyone with a Medal knows whether or not they've been awarded it with Valor. It should have been easy to figure out as its also attached to that paperwork. I've got several with Valor and several without and its all available to be researched.


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7917 times:

Was Boorda awarded those medals with Valor?

Blackbird


User currently offlineMortkork From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7160 times:

Oh, that's who it was! I saw the blrurp on the front of the AF Times in the BX. It hasn't even even firebottle talk (watercooler for noners). I was never in his command, it hasn't affected my morale one bit!

MSgt USAF


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7140 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 14):
Honestly, Gates is the 1 guy I think has a shot at getting held over by the Obama administration. There is a bit of a tradition of doing that.

Good thing the McCain administration will be the ones making that decision Big grin

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5814 times:

Well, it turns out his cause of death was officially ruled a suicide...

Quote:
A three-month Air Force Office of Special Investigations inquiry, which concluded in early November, determined that Tinsley intentionally shot himself once in the chest with a large-caliber handgun, but investigators were unable to turn up a motive.

But, maybe he was just playing Russian Roulette?

Quote:
An autopsy and toxicology report found alcohol in Tinsley’s blood...
...The five-chamber weapon, found with Tinsley’s body, contained one spent shell casing and four empty chambers.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/20...1/airforce_tinsley_suicide_110608/



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5791 times:



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
I don't think Gates rally hates the AF - but he sure gets angry when he gives orders and AF Generals don't bother to follow them. I imagine that he's also rather angry over the KC-X FUBAR, and he has a right to be.

I've heard a handful of current and past USAF officers opine that today's AF leadership is just not as good as it was even 10-20 years ago in terms of integrity and even aptitude. Too PC, too much ass-kissing, and not enough accountability - but then again that could describe our society as a whole as well.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7816 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5642 times:

Personally, it sounds like suicide. I see no other reason to point the gun at your own chest.

Is there any known or suspected reason, (apart from the obvious pressure of the job).


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5635 times:



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 18):
Good thing the McCain administration will be the ones making that decision

 Silly

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 21):
Personally, it sounds like suicide. I see no other reason to point the gun at your own chest.

Especially since he was in the military. I'm sure he was familiar with guns.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineAGC525 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5105 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 19):
But, maybe he was just playing Russian Roulette?

Speculation, more than likely he knows gun safety and only having one round in, and the rest of the chambers empty means when family and officials show up, there's no chance of someone mishandling the weapon and it going off. Most suicides with semi auto's will only have one round, leaving the slide open and more often than not, conceled under the body or under seat cushions, etc. And the shot to the chest serves two puposes, one is an open casket for friends and family (especially with that .50cal would have made the scene very disturbing and literally nothing left from the neck up), and the other is you run the risk of missing your brain or critical area, leaving you maimed. Sorry to be somewhat graphic, but as an EMT I've seen far too many suicides.

Very sad, nonetheless and I'm thankful of his service.



American Aviation: From Kitty Hawk to the Moon in 66 years!
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4904 times:



Quoting TropicBird (Reply 4):
But two congressional aides familiar with the matter said Miller was being investigated by the service for allegedly leaking information to the public before the government disclosed it. The aides requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the probe.

Just re-read that one. Are the two congressional aides going to be investigated for leaking information to the public before the government disclosed it about the guy who leaked information to the public before the government disclosed it? It's going to be interesting to see if there is anyone who is willing to leak information to the public about any possible investigation of the congressional aides who leaked information before the government disclosed it about the guy who leaked information to the public before the government disclosed it.  wideeyed 


25 Oroka : Yeah, I found that one ironic too.
26 Max Q : Poor guy, My greatest sympathies for him and his family. People call suicide a selfish act but I disagree. He must have been in a terrible place to do
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