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Naval-Aviator And Carrier CO / XO Questions  
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4978 times:

Oh, I know all USN Carrier CO's and XO's are naval aviators...

I also know they are unable to fly in combat scenarios due to a 1930-era regulation. But are they allowed to fly at all... be taken up in the back-seat?

How do they maintain any semblance of currency?


Andrea Kent

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1032 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

By the time an aviator makes it up to O5-O6 level - they're more flying a desk than flying an airplane.

Having deep-draft command-at-sea is a prerequisite for selection to flag officer, so you'll find naval aviators in command of large amphibious assault ships (LPDs/LHAs/LHDs) and fast combat support ships (AOEs) as well. Although on those ships, the community the CO comes from alternates between an aviator and a shoe, e.g. aviator - shoe - aviator - shoe. Whereas on a carrier, it's always an aviator with the XO of the carrier fleeting up to CO of the carrier when it's time for change of command.

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
I also know they are unable to fly in combat scenarios due to a 1930-era regulation.

What 1930's-era regulation is that? The only 1930's era regulation or tradition I am aware of is the fact that a carrier can only be commanded by an aviator, because back then the battleship sailors didn't want anything to do with an aircraft carrier, so the Navy found aviators to command their carriers. Now battleships are extinct and the shoes have been kicking themselves in their rears ever since.

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
But are they allowed to fly at all... be taken up in the back-seat?

They just kind of casually mention to a fellow (current) aviator either aboard ship or ashore - man it's been a while since I've been flying - to which an invitation to go flying usually follows... It's called networking  

[Edited 2008-07-30 15:28:14]


Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineDaveflys0509 From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 87 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4928 times:

I was not aware or didn't know about the 1930's era regulation, but I can assure you CO and XOs do fly regularly as do CAGs and DCAGs.

User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4904 times:

Fly regularly as in maintaining currency and practicing landings, correct?

Blackbird


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4889 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
Fly regularly as in maintaining currency and practicing landings, correct?

I honestly don't know what sort of currency a carrier CO/XO has to maintain. When I was in I remember the CO of the USS Independence showing up one day at the hangar and flying one of our birds. I think that had more to do with Navy politics than anything else.


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3471 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4860 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
Fly regularly as in maintaining currency and practicing landings, correct?

Nope. There is no way that ship's company personnel can maintain CV currency --I don't recall the daytime limit, but night currency was 1 trap every 7 days... often difficult depending upon the CV's operating schedule.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 4):
I honestly don't know what sort of currency a carrier CO/XO has to maintain.

None, but they are pilots (or NFO's) and most simply like to fly. The dangers of CV ops and their relative necessity to the ship's operations preclude their participation in "normal" CV ops.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineMike89406 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1464 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4854 times:



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 5):
Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
Fly regularly as in maintaining currency and practicing landings, correct?

Nope. There is no way that ship's company personnel can maintain CV currency --I don't recall the daytime limit, but night currency was 1 trap every 7 days... often difficult depending upon the CV's operating schedule.

I know if they are a command at sea position most likely a carrier CO/XO it's a little harder to maintain flight hours however by that time they make this rank the CO/XO has amassed plenty of flight hours in the career but they fly when they can to at least maintain proficiency or qualifications. Usually by then they are a O-6/Captain on the Navy equivalent to a Colonel in the other branches. It's usually because they have more responsibilities than just flying for instance if on a carrier a CO/XO is ultimately boss of 5,000-6,000 personnel on average. Not mention they are answer to Commodores, Admirals and above this is where the job becomes really political.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 5):
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 4):
I honestly don't know what sort of currency a carrier CO/XO has to maintain.

None, but they are pilots (or NFO's) and most simply like to fly. The dangers of CV ops and their relative necessity to the ship's operations preclude their participation in "normal" CV ops.

Theres more opportunity to fly here in this situation than a large command CO/XO O-6 as mentioned previously. They are typically a CO/XO of a smaller command your typically talking about a O-5 Commander or equivalent to a Lt. Colonel. They usually ar in charge of a aircraft squadron 200-400 personnel on average and they answer to the full birds (Captain)and above. IIRC the CO cannot fly at the same time as the XO vica versa in case something happens to the CO/XO at least a interim replacement will be available but yeah they fly to maintain flight hours and proficiency but not as much as the more junior aviators as they have leadership responsibilities, many meetings, and there are other functions to attend to as well.

Regards Mike


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4769 times:

My question is, is there a certain amount of time before a naval aviator can no longer fly?

I know in the civilian world after a certain amount of time, your type-rating and or liscence lapses...


Blackbird


User currently offlineDaveflys0509 From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 87 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

As long as you get a flight physical every year and your flight physiology quals are current, you can fly (more than likely as a special crew member). To be Day Carrier current you need one trap every 60 days. To basically be a PIC or to fly a mission as an aircrew you'll need to get that Navy's version of a checkride yearly along with an annual instrument check.

User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4726 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 7):
I know in the civilian world after a certain amount of time, your type-rating and or liscence lapses...

In the civilian world, your 'license' as in Pilots License never lapses. It is good for life, barring the FAA taking action against you. However you need a current medical to be legal to fly, which can be good for as long as 3 years for a 3rd Class Med. And there is currency requirements that have to be met before you are allowed to take passengers along with you on night flights (3 take off and landings at night within the preceding 90 days iirc). But for daytime VFR conditions as a private pilot for example, there is no currency requirements other than having your BFR (Biannual Flight Review) once every 24 months.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineMike89406 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1464 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4708 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 7):
My question is, is there a certain amount of time before a naval aviator can no longer fly?

I know in the civilian world after a certain amount of time, your type-rating and or liscence lapses...


Blackbird

I don't know specifics about flag officers O-6 and above other than what I mentioned above. However I know this much I have seen Captains and Admirals that have used another squadrons jet to go flying when hey get a chance if they are obviously an aviator. I have personally seen or heard of one star admirals flying for leisure or get invited to go flying.

But to answer your question If they can maintain the minimum requied flight hours or proficiency they can at least maintain the qual of flying the jet nand not necessarily be carrier, or combat qualified. To my knowledge they would no longer maintain currency of a combat aviator once they reach a certain responsibilty level which is usually a CO of a ship, or Department Head of a ship.

Another way they wouldn't be qualified is becuase by 0-5 to 0-6 levels and above the best way to become groomed for star(s) is to take a position in the Pentagon, Base CO at some point or other high level job which doesn't afford the opportunity to maintain normal flight status.

Regards Mike


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