Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Air Force 1 Replacement  
User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5871 times:

Had a look at the thread on the West Wing aircraft and it got me thinking. Searched for other threads on the subject but no luck.

The current 2 B747-200 are circa 1989-1990. What would their service life be? As USAF aircraft they would be well looked after.

What options exist for a replacment airframe. The B744 is an obvious replacement. But would a B777 be viable?

What about a new AF1 for 'a new President for a New Century'.......B787! OK the century is 8 years old and the B787 may not be ready for POTUS service until after the next election in 2012! But it would be a great statement in support of US industry.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5850 times:

This subject is well-well-well cover. Try a search... no less then two or three threads have run on this very subject in just the last 2 months.

The short answer... there will be no replacement for at least 10 years. The current VC-25 is still very new with very low flight hours and is one of the best maintained aircraft in the world



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5671 times:



Quoting Bramble (Thread starter):
Searched for other threads on the subject but no luck.

Thread got moved....obviously I should have searched in the military forum.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5635 times:



Quoting Bramble (Reply 2):
obviously I should have searched in the military forum.

I had found about 10 or so in the Military Forum, but could not get it to post due to the current 'error' going around. The Mod's tend to delete the threads in Civil due to the large number that keep showing up. Just search under key word 'Replacement'... 'Thread Starters Only'



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5492 times:



Quoting Bramble (Thread starter):
The B744 is an obvious replacement.

No it is not  Wink The 744 is out of production and I doubt AF 1 will be a second hand plane  Smile

The 747-8I might be an option but really this topic has been discussed over and over  Smile



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJutes85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5353 times:

I heard that they are buying a retired IL-78 and converting it for AF1. Just a rumour though.

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5315 times:

Yes the range, modern technology and its size would make the 787 the right aircraft for the US president in this new century.

User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 5194 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
Yes the range, modern technology and its size would make the 787 the right aircraft for the US president in this new century.

Why is the 787 the right size? From the impact point of view, it would make far less of an impression than a 747 would. I can see, perhaps, a step down to a 777-300ER and given the people and equipment carried on Air Force one that might not be enough airplane. I guess time will tell.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 5167 times:



Quoting Bramble (Thread starter):
Searched for other threads on the subject but no luck.

There are a billion threads on this subject, one was very recent but maybe it didn't answer your question.

As much as i would like to see a 748i as the new AF1 i think it will still be a while. The fact that there are a few 748s under VIP order (some placed fairly close together) could mean a replacement for AF1s and E-4Bs but like i have been told about a hundred times the current AF1 has a lot of life left in it. I still remember it took some time to retrofit the current 742s to be used as AF1 so the 748s on order could have a chance. I just can't believe they would use an A380, the 747 is big enough but a european plane to hold the US president would piss a lot of people off. The 787/777 may be a little too small so the 747 will be perfect for them.

What will be interesting is what will replace the 757s? maybe a 787 if they need a little larger


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 21 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

For the EU presidency I think a A380 would suitable choice ( multinational product, leading economic power ).

User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 21 hours ago) and read 5128 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
For the EU presidency I think a A380 would suitable choice ( multinational product, leading economic power ).

There are also those that think te A380 would be a graet choice, its story so far being a great metaphor for the EU.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 5123 times:



Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 5):
I heard that they are buying a retired IL-78 and converting it for AF1. Just a rumour though.

I am going with that answer for every 'new AF1' thread I see for now on!

744 is done, no one else is getting any if they didnt order them already. The USAF will be ordering 748s for the YAL-1 program, so they will be in the inventory for a few years, but by the time the VC-25 is ready to be put out to pasture (20 years from now), the 747 will be long replaced by something much bigger or something much faster.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 5117 times:



Quoting Spacepope (Reply 10):
There are also those that think te A380 would be a graet choice, its story so far being a great metaphor for the EU.

Big, powerfull, efficient, silent, reliable and popular is what you're hinting at no doubt  Wink

Back to topic, what about a B52?


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 5033 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 8):
but like i have been told about a hundred times the current AF1 has a lot of life left in it.

Very true, but remember VC-137C (B-707-320B) # 62-6000 retired with about 12,000 hours on her, and her sister # 72-7000 retired with less than 6,000 hours on her.


User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 hours ago) and read 4954 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 13):
Very true, but remember VC-137C (B-707-320B) # 62-6000 retired with about 12,000 hours on her, and her sister # 72-7000 retired with less than 6,000 hours on her.

That's trued but i think that had to do more with the size of the 707, it's fairly small and was pretty out of date compared to a 747. Going from a 742 to a 748 wouldn't really be a huge change since the current 742 has had so many updates including engines. As much as i would like to see a new AF1 and maybe a few more (757 replacement) it may not happen.


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 hour ago) and read 4932 times:

The Air Force is waiting for Northwest to retire the DC-9s. Northwest, on the other hand, is waiting on the Air Force to replace the VC-25s before they retire the '9s from the fleet.

It's an old-fashioned stand off. Who will blink first... Big grin


User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months ago) and read 4918 times:



Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 15):
It's an old-fashioned stand off. Who will blink first... 

The USAF will blink first. Northwest is plotting to have the DC-9s be the first aircraft seeing 100 years continual service! Our grandchildren will fly the exact same DC-9s on the exact same routes that their great grandfathers did!


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4837 times:



Quoting Oroka (Reply 16):
The USAF will blink first. Northwest is plotting to have the DC-9s be the first aircraft seeing 100 years continual service!

But, the USAF is 10-12 years ahead of the NW DC-9s, with their older KC-135s, C-130s, and B-52s.

 bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9400 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4653 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 4):
No it is not The 744 is out of production and I doubt AF 1 will be a second hand plane

If the they wanted the 744 (brand new) Boeing would be more than glad to give it to them.
They still make 744Fs which means all the tooling is there. The US government is not an Airline if they wanted a 744 Boeing would be happy to make 2-3 for them. They would want them to take 748s but the the gov. was hell bent on the 744 that is what they would get.  Wink

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
Yes the range, modern technology and its size would make the 787 the right aircraft for the US president in this new century.

to small

Quoting Oroka (Reply 11):
744 is done, no one else is getting any if they didnt order them already.

read above.



yep.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8535 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4629 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 18):
read above.

Read above? Most sources say the 744 is essentially out of production today. They are going thru the motions on the last few frames but their ability to generate new slots may be completely gone. The upper part of the line may be in a state of shutdown today, as we speak.

I thought it was a Space Shuttle type situation: they need to stop building 744s so they can re-tool for the 748.


User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4587 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):
I thought it was a Space Shuttle type situation: they need to stop building 744s so they can re-tool for the 748.

That is correct. While a 2-3 frame order would be convenient for Boeing and would keep the 747 line busy for a while longer and eat up the delay in the 748.


User currently offlineSCAT15F From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4391 times:

How about a low hour 744 airframe with Genx-2b67's? After all, the current AF1 is a 742 with 744 engines...

User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2349 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3397 times:

How about the inside of Air Force One? I believe SAM 28000 recently came out of a heavy check, but I would imagine maybe there are plans to update the current interior, as the current one still seems like it came out of the 1990's in which it did!


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5595 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3341 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 8):
it took some time to retrofit the current 742s to be used as AF1

How long did it take to refit to "presidential" levels? And who did the refitting?

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 8):
What will be interesting is what will replace the 757s? maybe a 787 if they need a little larger

That is actually an interesting debate, I would bet it will be the fore mentioned 787. But when would something like that occur and which variant?

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 21):
How about a low hour 744 airframe with Genx-2b67's? After all, the current AF1 is a 742 with 744 engines...

I actually prefer the shorter top deck of the -200 to the -400 and -8I. Just looks better proportionally to me.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3329 times:



Quoting Tugger (Reply 23):
How long did it take to refit to "presidential" levels? And who did the refitting?

Boeing-Wichita



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
25 SCAT15F : I still think they should install GEnx-2b's, especially as they don't need any more space (as in the 748i) and the airframes have so much time left on
26 DEVILFISH : Thought I'd throw this in to liven up the thread. The DEW Line is discussing a "new" AF1 by 2017. Given the current financial reality, it's a hardsell
27 Flighty : That's actually very soon. This is the type of project that could easily take a lazy contractor 5-6-7-8 years to do. I can't think of one reason why
28 EMBQA : I'd be shocked if SAM2800 and SAM2900 have cracked the 4000hr marks. That makes them still brand new....
29 747400sp : Let's see how the Boeing Y-3 turn out, it could be a way better AF1 then anything we have now.
30 DLA330 : I too think that AF1 has quite a bit of life in it. Another 4 to 5 presidential terms could work out quite well for AF1 maybe less than that. Y3 might
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Air Force 1 Replacement
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Replacement For German Air Force One posted Sat Apr 21 2007 23:19:21 by LXA340
Air Force Beginning To Consider Awacs Replacement? posted Tue Mar 27 2007 05:12:47 by EBJ1248650
Air Force One Replacement? posted Mon Oct 16 2006 08:06:42 by TUSaadvantage
Replacement For Air Force 1? posted Sun Aug 8 2004 23:37:02 by Futurestar68
French Presidency Will Get Its "Air Force One" posted Thu Sep 18 2008 07:43:20 by GrahamHill
Red Flag - Nellis Air Force Base - August 2008 posted Tue Sep 9 2008 05:58:49 by Max78
Air Force One Cockpit posted Mon Sep 1 2008 19:00:06 by Speedbird741
Offutt Air Force Base Air Show posted Sat Aug 16 2008 08:32:42 by DLX737200
U.S. Army/Air Force C-27J Production posted Mon Jul 7 2008 15:58:25 by Zeke
Air Force One To Detroit 6/25 - Question posted Tue Jun 24 2008 18:32:43 by Nwafan20

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format