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Topic: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2006-02-09 14:45:56 and read 1797 times.

For anyone following the wife and baby murder case in Mass. the husband has been arrested and is due to appear at Bow Street Magistrates Court either today or tomorrow on an extradition warrant.

Naturally that brings up the Death Penalty issue but he has been arrested for the murder of his wife and child within the last few hours.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/02/09/entwistle.arrest/index.html

[Edited 2006-02-09 14:55:32]

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: N1120A
Posted 2006-02-09 14:58:02 and read 1784 times.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Thread starter):
For anyone following the wife and baby murder case in Mass. the husband has been arrested and is due to appear at Bow Street Magistrates Court either today or tomorrow on an extradition warrant.

Naturally that brings up the Death Penalty issue but he has been arrested for the murder of his wife and child within the last few hours.

Actually, it isn't an issue. Massachusetts does not have the death penalty

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2006-02-09 15:02:21 and read 1781 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):

Actually, it isn't an issue. Massachusetts does not have the death penalty

it will still need to be demonstrated to the court before it approves the warrant. Should not take long though, he'll be on the plane soon enough.

Unless he has outstanding offences to deal with here first.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: AerospaceFan
Posted 2006-02-09 15:02:53 and read 1781 times.

If he did it... if he killed his own wife and little baby..., then, if so, what an absolute horror.

I don't even want to say what I think should happen to him. I cannot imagine what kind of person would so such a thing, if this is true.

[Edited 2006-02-09 15:03:14]

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: Cadet57
Posted 2006-02-09 15:08:01 and read 1772 times.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 2):
Actually, it isn't an issue. Massachusetts does not have the death penalty

Actually, we do, its only used for federal crimes thou, but we dont use it anyways, so i guess you could argue we dont.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: N1120A
Posted 2006-02-09 15:09:55 and read 1769 times.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 3):
If he did it... if he killed his own wife and little baby..., then, if so, what an absolute horror.

Indeed, it would be horrible, but given some of the things that have come out about them, I actually think that it may have been someone else who wanted to take revenge on their whole family

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 2):
it will still need to be demonstrated to the court before it approves the warrant. Should not take long though, he'll be on the plane soon enough.

Unless he has outstanding offences to deal with here first.

Well, if he has outstanding offenses to deal with in the UK, they would likely defer if they are minor or have him serve those out and then extradite him to the US.

As far as demonstrating that the death penalty doesn't exist in MA, that should be as simple as opening a code book or doing a web search

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: N1120A
Posted 2006-02-09 15:13:19 and read 1764 times.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 4):
Actually, we do, its only used for federal crimes thou, but we dont use it anyways, so i guess you could argue we dont.

Um, we are talking about a state, not a federal crime. Federal Law has nothing to do with MA and MA doesn't decide whether or not to pursue the death penalty in those cases. Under Massachusetts state law, there is no death penalty

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2006-02-09 15:16:06 and read 1762 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
As far as demonstrating that the death penalty doesn't exist in MA, that should be as simple as opening a code book or doing a web search

unfortunately the law isn't like that. Google is not part of our legal system.

There would have to be a statement produced to the Court that the extraditing authority will not pursue the death penalty against the defendant. That would then be accepted as being compliant with our laws and the extradition would proceed.

Unfortunately the same law has been used in recent years by Islamic extremists in this country to escape extradition to their home nations, but it is still our law. No extradition to any jurisdiction where the prisoner may be put to death.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: N1120A
Posted 2006-02-09 15:20:26 and read 1759 times.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 7):
unfortunately the law isn't like that. Google is not part of our legal system.

Oh, I know, I was talking about one of the reporting services that have the whole Massachusetts code online. Still, I am sure whomever is at the hearing will bring a copy of the relavant law with them

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 7):
No extradition to any jurisdiction where the prisoner may be put to death.

Actually, that is true in many countries where there is no death penalty. In fact, Mexico's Supreme Court ruled that not only will those facing the death penalty not be extradited, but those facing Life without Parole will not be extradited as well. Their rationale is that Mexico believes in a penal system that is not just punitive but also rehabilative and there is no chance of that if the prisoner has no chance of getting out of jail.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: Cadet57
Posted 2006-02-09 15:22:47 and read 1758 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 4):
Actually, we do, its only used for federal crimes thou, but we dont use it anyways, so i guess you could argue we dont.

Um, we are talking about a state, not a federal crime. Federal Law has nothing to do with MA and MA doesn't decide whether or not to pursue the death penalty in those cases. Under Massachusetts state law, there is no death penalty

thats exaclty what I said....

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: Tappan
Posted 2006-02-09 15:46:31 and read 1744 times.

Can anyone tell me what flight he will be on back to BOS so I can photograph him in custody for my newspaper, The Boston Herald  Smile
<-----only half joking
Mark Garfinkel

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2006-02-09 15:50:02 and read 1741 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
Massachusetts does not have the death penalty

Actually, the death penalty in Masssachusetts did briefly become law via a 1982 ballot referendum when outgoing-Gov. Ed King signed the measure into law. the law remained in effect for about 3 days until returning-Gov. Mike Dukakis (after a 4-year exile) threw it out stating that the wording of the law was unconstitutional.

Which begs this question (I was not old enough to be registered voter in 1982 so I wasn't able to participate in the voting process at the time)?

Why would voters overwhelmingly vote to support the death penalty ballot question and yet return a man to the governor's seat that's a known outspoken death penalty opponent? If they wanted it (the death penalty) that badly, they should've elected John Sears.

20 years later, a similar lunacy happens. Mitt Romney is elected to the governor's seat (not much of a choice after Shannon O'Brien shot off her mouth w/Tim Russert) but the voters at large, hand him a veto-proof legislature.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2006-02-09 16:14:32 and read 1727 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Oh, I know, I was talking about one of the reporting services that have the whole Massachusetts code online. Still, I am sure whomever is at the hearing will bring a copy of the relavant law with them

That isn't the way it is done.

There has to be a clear, bankable commitment in the form of a written undertaking made at the time of the extradition hearing. Under normal circumstances the US and its States are happy to comply and these matters proceed to a successful outcome and extradition.

The Right to Life is upheld so the prisoner cannot then appeal under human rights legislation in force within Britain and the EU that he could have his rights denied by being extradited (that's a simplified explanation of how it would be for the purpose of brevity). As long as he gets a fair trial (taken as read) and he is not put to death on conviction then he can be legally extradited.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2006-02-09 16:17:59 and read 1727 times.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 12):
As long as he gets a fair trial (taken as read) and he is not put to death on conviction then he can be legally extradited.

There is another option, the defendant can waive an extradition hearing, and voluntarily comply with the extradition order. I don't know how likely that is in this case, but not all cases have to go to formal extradition.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: Halls120
Posted 2006-02-09 16:24:49 and read 1718 times.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 3):
If he did it... if he killed his own wife and little baby..., then, if so, what an absolute horror.

I don't even want to say what I think should happen to him. I cannot imagine what kind of person would so such a thing, if this is true

If it is true that "Rachel Entwistle was shot in the head and died immediately, and her baby was shot in the stomach and bled to death within minutes, according to the medical examiner's report," and that the defendant was responsible, then I hope he has a very short life in prison.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2006-02-09 19:22:38 and read 1695 times.

From what the D.A. in Mass. was saying on the news earlier they seem to have a fairly strong case against this guy.

As he ran to his parents in Britain, I'm wondering if there isn't another dimension to this case and whether mental illness may be a part of it. Anyway he'll get his day in both courts. Even if there is a lot more to the story he has to go back and face justice and a fair trial with proper examination.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
There is another option, the defendant can waive an extradition hearing, and voluntarily comply with the extradition order. I don't know how likely that is in this case, but not all cases have to go to formal extradition.

as he went to the US Embassy at one stage I wouldn't be surprised if he did. Although I doubt it will happen.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: AerospaceFan
Posted 2006-02-09 21:27:52 and read 1684 times.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 15):
As he ran to his parents in Britain, I'm wondering if there isn't another dimension to this case and whether mental illness may be a part of it

It seems to me that insanity is not as easy to prove as it used to be, if anyone tries to plead it.

If this suspect did the foul deeds, then he also subsequently put his parents in a very difficult position. If, for example, the parents had sheltered him (and I don't know this at all), I wonder if under British law, they could be considered to be accessories after the fact.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: N1120A
Posted 2006-02-09 21:37:03 and read 1683 times.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 9):
thats exaclty what I said....

No, you said that Massachusetts had the death penalty, but only for federal crimes, which is untrue as MA doesn't make federal laws

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
Why would voters overwhelmingly vote to support the death penalty ballot question and yet return a man to the governor's seat that's a known outspoken death penalty opponent? If they wanted it (the death penalty) that badly, they should've elected John Sears.

Perhaps because Massachusetts voters are not narrowminded, single issue voters?

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
20 years later, a similar lunacy happens. Mitt Romney is elected to the governor's seat (not much of a choice after Shannon O'Brien shot off her mouth w/Tim Russert) but the voters at large, hand him a veto-proof legislature.

Mitt is an odd guy in MA. They like him (or used to anyway, they don't have many good things to say about him at this point) and his name was out there. They showed their true feelings in the legislative election

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 16):
It seems to me that insanity is not as easy to prove as it used to be, if anyone tries to plead it.

It has never been easy.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2006-02-09 22:22:12 and read 1673 times.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 16):
It seems to me that insanity is not as easy to prove as it used to be, if anyone tries to plead it.

We have an offence called "manslaughter due to diminished responsibility" here, and I know the US has something almost identical in its degrees of murder charges. It's not permanent insanity, more where someone had an absence of control due to a mental event (like extreme stress) or under the influence of drugs.

Again it's not easy to prove or have accepted as a defence but when all the facts come out it might be the defence he tries to run. Either way, the good people of Boston will ensure he gets his day in court and a fair trial.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: LTBEWR
Posted 2006-02-09 22:24:50 and read 1672 times.

Mr. Entwhistle will be most probably charged in a preliminary hearing and tried for 1st Degree Murder of 2 people under Massachusetts Commonwealth (another word for State used by some state here in their formal name) Law. That state doesn't have the death penalty available. Now if he committed his crime under a Federal Law (such as an act of terrorism, or murdering a Federal law enforcement officer for example) then he could be subject to the Death Penalty.
Probalby the procedure will be this. The Proscutor in the County in Mass. the murder took place has issued a warrent for his arrest. Already, investigators for the State of Mass. have quesioned him. Enough evidence is believed from the investigation at the murder site and within the state to be able to charge him enough to require his arrest. The State then takes the arrest warrent, goes to a Federal Court in Mass. (in Boston) and requests for extridition papers. The US Government then sends a representive to work with UK lawyers to apply for extridition. That application would include a statement that the charged person cannot be subject to the death penalty for the reasons stated above. A short time later, unless Mr. Entwhistle challanges the extradition, the UK courts approve the extridition, Mr. Entwhistle is turned over to USA Marshalls and reps for the Mass. government and he goes to the USA.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: AerospaceFan
Posted 2006-02-09 23:17:43 and read 1656 times.

Earlier, I wrote,

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 16):
If, for example, the parents had sheltered him (and I don't know this at all), I wonder if under British law, they could be considered to be accessories after the fact.

I'm not a criminal defense lawyer, but on second thoughts, I think that his parents would have had to actually know that he committed the crimes (if he did) for them to be culpable in any way.

If he went to them and said, "Help me, Mother and Father! They are coming after me. Whatever they say I might have done, I didn't do it!" then it seems to me that if the parents had let him stay in their home, he would simply be considered a guest of theirs. Would they have cause to turn him over to the police, or reject him, particularly if they believed him? Perhaps not on these hypothetical facts.

I'm just musing.

NC, I don't underestimate the difficulty of the insanity plea, but I do know that it has a bad reputation among some circles.

[Edited 2006-02-09 23:19:46]

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: RichardPrice
Posted 2006-02-09 23:33:16 and read 1651 times.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 16):
If this suspect did the foul deeds, then he also subsequently put his parents in a very difficult position. If, for example, the parents had sheltered him (and I don't know this at all), I wonder if under British law, they could be considered to be accessories after the fact.

If he was a known criminal at the time, then yes they can be charged with harbouring a criminal and obstruction of justice, however he wasnt considered a suspect in the case until recently, and a warrant wasnt issued for his arrest until today, so they did nothing wrong. When he came to the UK, he voluntarily attended several police interviews, and the US embassy, to answer questions.

Also they are calling this a failed murder-suicide, where he had second thoughts about the suicide and panicked.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: AerospaceFan
Posted 2006-02-09 23:35:34 and read 1651 times.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 21):
If he was a known criminal at the time, then yes they can be charged with harbouring a criminal and obstruction of justice, however he wasnt considered a suspect in the case until recently, and a warrant wasnt issued for his arrest until today, so they did nothing wrong.

Oh, I see. That makes sense. Thank you.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2006-02-10 12:33:13 and read 1622 times.

Breaking news...the arrested man has agreed to the extradition in court. So he's on his way back to the US.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2006-02-10 12:37:24 and read 1621 times.

I just stumbled across this

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_on_re_us/mother_and_baby_dead

"Entwistle's finances deteriorated after the failure of his Internet businesses, which included a Web site that promised customers as much as $6,000 in monthly earnings and another that offered a manual to help men enlarge their penises"

He's a penis enlargement spammer. Hang the bastard.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2006-02-10 12:44:45 and read 1618 times.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 23):
the arrested man has agreed to the extradition in court.

The "other" option.  Smile

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: RichardPrice
Posted 2006-02-10 12:45:41 and read 1617 times.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 24):

He's a penis enlargement spammer. Hang the bastard.

Nothing says he spammed anyone, just that the websites are crap.

Topic: RE: Massachusetts Murders...man Arrested, In Court
Username: Halls120
Posted 2006-02-10 14:19:24 and read 1610 times.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 21):
Also they are calling this a failed murder-suicide, where he had second thoughts about the suicide and panicked.

Too bad he didn't turn the gun on himself first.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 24):
"Entwistle's finances deteriorated after the failure of his Internet businesses, which included a Web site that promised customers as much as $6,000 in monthly earnings and another that offered a manual to help men enlarge their penises"

He's a penis enlargement spammer. Hang the bastard.

 rotfl 


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