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Topic: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: KFLLCFII
Posted 2006-10-14 01:55:38 and read 1573 times.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...542.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

Democratic Party files suit over 'vote for Foley is vote for Negron' notice at polls

The Florida Democratic Party filed a lawsuit Friday to prevent election supervisors in Mark Foley's district from informing voters the disgraced Republican congressman has been replaced by another candidate.

Supervisors in most of the affected counties planned to display notices in polling places stating: "A vote for Mark Foley (Rep.) will be counted for Joe Negron (Rep.), the Republican candidate." The sheets would also say a vote for Democratic candidate Tim Mahoney counts for Mahoney and a vote for unaffiliated candidate Emmie Ross counts for Ross.

The Democratic Party claims the proposed notice violates Florida law and constitutes favoritism toward the Republican Party. "The issue is the electioneering inside the polling place and the law doesn't allow them to do it," said Tallahassee elections lawyer Mark Herron, who filed the suit. Herron, who has represented Florida Democrats in a string of court cases, said allowing elections officials to post such notices would encourage political parties to switch candidates at the last minute and "play games with the ballot."

Jeff Sabowsky, communications director for the Florida Republican Party, accused Democrats of political gamesmanship. "It just shows how far they will go, grasping at straws, to keep voters in the dark," Sabowsky said.

Under Florida law, Foley's name remains on the ballot because he dropped out of the race after the primary election results were certified.



Electioneering inside the polling place? Political gamesmanship by the Democrats?

What say you?

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Klaus
Posted 2006-10-14 02:02:12 and read 1563 times.

What's happened in other similar cases before, and what is the official regulation for this case in Florida?

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Falcon84
Posted 2006-10-14 02:08:45 and read 1555 times.

The Dems are off the mark on this suit, I believe. I know why they're doing it-they want everyone to see that name "Mark Foley" on that ballot, and no mention of Negron anywhere.

But I think it's fair to simply inform those who are just plain idiotic, or who have been living under a rock, that Foley is not the candidate that the vote will count for.

A frivileous suit by the Dems. Let it go already.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: TedTAce
Posted 2006-10-14 02:09:21 and read 1553 times.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
what is the official regulation for this case in Florida?

I don't think there is a precedent, hopefully someone will prove me wrong.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Klaus
Posted 2006-10-14 02:15:30 and read 1541 times.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
I don't think there is a precedent, hopefully someone will prove me wrong.

Candidates dying or dropping out for other reasons should have happened a few times already... it's not that uncommon; And electoral regulations should have some provision for it...

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Mir
Posted 2006-10-14 02:48:20 and read 1527 times.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
Candidates dying or dropping out for other reasons should have happened a few times already...

John Ashcroft lost an election to a deceased candidate, didn't he?

-Mir

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: KFLLCFII
Posted 2006-10-14 03:09:28 and read 1513 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
John Ashcroft lost an election to a deceased candidate, didn't he?

In Missouri, yes:

2000 reelection campaign

In 1998, Ashcroft briefly considered running for president in 2000, but on January 5, 1999, he announced that he would not seek the presidency and would instead defend his Senate seat in his 2000 reelection. [2]

In his bid for reelection to the Senate, Ashcroft faced a challenge from then-Governor Mel Carnahan. Carnahan died in an airplane crash two weeks prior to the November general election, but his name remained on the ballot due to Missouri state election laws. Lieutenant Governor Roger Wilson became Governor upon Carnahan's death. Wilson announced that should Carnahan be elected he would appoint his widow, Jean Carnahan, to serve in her husband's place; Mrs. Carnahan agreed to this arrangement.

Voters elected Mel Carnahan, although dead, by a narrow margin. No one had ever posthumously won election to the Senate, though voters on at least three occasions chose deceased candidates for the House.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ashcroft

...But as to whether or not there is such a precedent under Florida law regarding voter notification for a last-minute candidate change, I have yet to come across any such instances.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: TedTAce
Posted 2006-10-14 03:11:15 and read 1514 times.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
Candidates dying or dropping out for other reasons should have happened a few times already... it's not that uncommon; And electoral regulations should have some provision for it...

Yes

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
John Ashcroft lost an election to a deceased candidate, didn't he?

Yes


But in Florida that hasn't happened in a long time and when a candidate dies there is little need to post a notice as there is a sympathy vote for whoever takes their place (in ashcroft's case the wife of the dead candidate). This is the first time I can think of that there was a negative stigma to the original candidates name and may be the reason that the notice MIGHT be warranted.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Gilligan
Posted 2006-10-14 05:51:17 and read 1482 times.

As long as all three candidates are represented equally then I don't see how it could be construed as "electioneering". But then again this is the state where people couldn't handle a simple butterfly punch ballot so who knows?

I believe, at least the last I heard, the democrats in Texas have been successful in keeping Tom Delays name on the ballot even though he isn't running. I couldn't tell you what the name of his subsitute is, he's made that big of splash and Delays district is stones throw from mine.

I firmly believe that everyone has a right to vote but sometimes you just have to shake your head at the competence of those voting. Not on the issues, vote the way you want, but strictly in their ability to actually go into the booth and work the machine whatever kind it might be.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: TedTAce
Posted 2006-10-14 11:12:57 and read 1455 times.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 8):
simple butterfly

Don't you mean illegal?

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Nkops
Posted 2006-10-14 16:16:04 and read 1441 times.

Is there any government that is more embarrassing than ours right now??

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: GuitrThree
Posted 2006-10-14 16:19:50 and read 1441 times.

Quoting Nkops (Reply 10):
Is there any government that is more embarrassing than ours right now??

Yea. Plenty. Iran and North Korea come to mind very quickly..

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: LTBEWR
Posted 2006-10-14 16:43:37 and read 1436 times.

I can understand the challenge by Democrats in Florida as to how the replacement candidate for Rep. Foley is noticed on the election ballots. That all 3 major candidates have reference in that special posting as to who they are actually voting for may be within Florida State law due to the late change after printing of the ballots. I am quite sure the Florida courts will not consider this as electioneering due to the unusual timing circumstances and would be used if a death of a candidate.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: TPAnx
Posted 2006-10-14 16:56:46 and read 1430 times.

From an AP story:
Earlier this week, elections supervisors in the district agreed to post the notices after an attorney for the Florida State Supervisors of Elections Association said it was a legal move. A decision was made not to include the notices with absentee ballots because state law prohibits it.
The intended notices would also tell voters that a vote for Tim Mahoney, Negron's Democratic challenger, will count for Mahoney and a vote for unaffiliated Emmie Ross will count for Ross.
"We think the issue is very simple. What they propose to do is electioneering, and the law says electioneering is not allowed within 100 feet of a polling place. Simple as that," said Democratic Party spokesman Mark Bubriski. Electioneering includes any notice or advertisement that informs voters about a specific candidate but does not necessarily ask voters to cast their ballot for that candidate, said Jenny Nash, a spokeswoman for the Florida Secretary of State's Office.Nash called the Democratic Party's motion "a reach," adding that the notices don't constitute electioneering."There is plenty of support in Florida election code for both the department and the supervisors to educate voters and to provide them with necessary information," Nash said. "We feel it's a commonsense approach that in order to avoid confusion at the polls, voters should be educated to any last-minute changes to the ballot."
Negron called the move "a desperate attempt to try to confuse voters."

Seems that the notice covers all the bases...what's wrong with letting people know how their votes will be counted when a situation changes? Hearing is
Thursday..
TPAnx

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Gilligan
Posted 2006-10-14 18:32:31 and read 1419 times.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 9):
Don't you mean illegal?

No, I meant simple since I used that type of ballot in several different states in which I lived over the years. As long as you paid at least a modecum of attention while you were voting it was a user friendly document.

Quoting Nkops (Reply 10):
Is there any government that is more embarrassing than ours right now??

Venezuela.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: TedTAce
Posted 2006-10-14 19:32:31 and read 1413 times.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 14):
No, I meant simple since I used that type of ballot in several different states in which I lived over the years.

None of which were Florida.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 14):
As long as you paid at least a modecum of attention while you were voting it was a user friendly document.

Let's see how good you do with a butterfly ballot when your 50 years past death.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Gilligan
Posted 2006-10-14 20:21:25 and read 1404 times.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 15):
None of which were Florida.

Don't know about that, I was a resident of Ft. Walton Beach FL up in the panhandle and voted there in 1979 and 1980. I know it was a paper ballot and wouldn't be surprised if it were the butterfly kind. I know I used a butterfly ballot in several elections in Ohio and in Alabama as well. They weren't that uncommon.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 15):
Let's see how good you do with a butterfly ballot when your 50 years past death.

Every polling place has volunteers that will help the ederly or disabled with voting so that complaint is just doesn't carry any water.

If you are younger and have questions the polling place workers are there to answer your questions which they have for me several times over the years.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Pope
Posted 2006-10-14 21:14:16 and read 1386 times.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 7):
This is the first time I can think of that there was a negative stigma to the original candidates name and may be the reason that the notice MIGHT be warranted.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when Torticelli (sp?) resigned after the primary didn't the Democrats go crying to the NJ Supreme Court based on an argument on "fairness" the law be damned?

Not only did they get Torticelli's name off the ballot, they go a new guys name on it.

Granted NJ law isn't Florida law, but if we're debating the merits of the position, it seems to me that the Democratic position is now just hypocritical.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: ArtieFufkin
Posted 2006-10-14 21:15:54 and read 1387 times.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
The Dems are off the mark on this suit, I believe. I know why they're doing it-they want everyone to see that name "Mark Foley" on that ballot, and no mention of Negron anywhere.

But I think it's fair to simply inform those who are just plain idiotic, or who have been living under a rock, that Foley is not the candidate that the vote will count for.

A frivileous suit by the Dems. Let it go already.

Well what does the law say here? The case should be decided on the merits. If the laws says they can't do it. Then no. And kudos for Dems for not taking any shit from GOP election supervisors.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Pope
Posted 2006-10-14 21:18:47 and read 1383 times.

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 18):
The case should be decided on the merits.

There's the double standard from the left. When it's a democrat running for Senate in NJ, then "fairness" is what matters. When it's a republican running for the House in Florida, only the law matters. Hypocrisy pure and simple.

But in any case, I think the issue will be found to be legal within Florida.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: TedTAce
Posted 2006-10-14 21:19:00 and read 1383 times.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 16):
Every polling place has volunteers that will help the ederly or disabled with voting so that complaint is just doesn't carry any water.

It's not a complaint it's an observation, and you can have 100 volunteers for every single voter it means nothing when pride precludes the willingness to take help.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: ArtieFufkin
Posted 2006-10-14 21:29:26 and read 1377 times.

Quoting Pope (Reply 19):
There's the double standard from the left

I'm not familiar with the NJ situation. But speaking for myself. I'm for the rule of law and following the Constitution.

Let the GOP whiners cry all they want. They did that in Delay's district as well. Of course they got laughed out of court and the Dems will take over that district just like this one.

If the GOP wants to keep office hear maybe next time the will not encourage know sexual predetors to run for office again.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Gilligan
Posted 2006-10-14 21:37:14 and read 1368 times.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 20):
it means nothing when pride precludes the willingness to take help.

Agreed which is why I added.....

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 8):
I firmly believe that everyone has a right to vote but sometimes you just have to shake your head at the competence of those voting. Not on the issues, vote the way you want, but strictly in their ability to actually go into the booth and work the machine whatever kind it might be.

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: ArtieFufkin
Posted 2006-10-19 17:53:30 and read 1332 times.

Well that settles that. Another take down of GOPer election shenanigans.

Try not urging sexual predators to run for office next time will ya?


"And the GOP endured another hit Wednesday when a state judge, ruling on a lawsuit brought by Democratic activists, barred state election officials from posting signs at voting locations and delivering notices about the ballot situation to 16th District voters.

Second Judicial Circuit Judge Janet E. Ferris ruled that a state-run information campaign to inform voters about what critics argue was an internal Republican Party foulup would do "irreparable injury" to Democratic nominee Tim Mahoney and his supporters.

Ferris wrote that elections supervisors are "ordered not to post the proposed notice, and may not deliver the notice to individual voters posing questions about the race in question." Negron's campaign and the secretary of state's office, headed by Republican appointee Sue M. Cobb, have told local news outlets they will appeal the decision."

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: KFLLCFII
Posted 2006-10-28 04:59:06 and read 1281 times.

Court: Voters May See List of Candidates

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Voters deciding on a replacement for disgraced Rep. Mark Foley may be provided with a list of candidates in the race as they enter the voting booth next month, an appeals court ruled Friday.

Foley's name will appear on the Nov. 7 ballot because his resignation on Sept. 29 came too late to make changes after revelations that the Florida Republican sent lurid electronic messages to male teenage congressional pages. A replacement GOP candidate, Joe Negron, is running in Foley's place.

Republicans proposed posting signs at polling places that explained a vote for Foley would go to Negron. But Democrats challenged the idea in court, saying it would amount to a last-minute plug for Negron.

A three-judge panel of the 1st District Court of Appeals ruled Friday that providing notices was fine, but only if the notices include other candidates'names. The court did not address how the information should be given out _ such as whether the notices can be handed to voters or posted.

GOP spokesman Jeff Sadosky said the party agreed with the court's conclusion that it is"unreasonable to assume that Florida law mandates that voters be kept in the dark." State Democratic Party Chairman Karen Thurman did not immediately return a call seeking comment.


http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2006Oct...70,FoleyapossDistrictPolls,00.html

Topic: RE: Democrats File Suit Over Foley Notice At FL Polls
Username: Gilligan
Posted 2006-10-28 11:22:05 and read 1263 times.

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 24):
A three-judge panel of the 1st District Court of Appeals ruled Friday that providing notices was fine, but only if the notices include other candidates'names. The court did not address how the information should be given out _ such as whether the notices can be handed to voters or posted.

Damn Artie, better add those three judges to your crooked gop list quick!

Don't ya just hate it when common sense gets in the way?


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