Hi !

Are there many German cars in the US ? On all Pics I see , I never see a German car ...

Do Americans like German cars , or do they prefer American ones ??


Cheers,

Konstantin

Americans like German cars, they arn't bad.

You must not look at a lot of photos, VW's are everywhere.

I do prefer American cars, but its all on opinion.

It's a matter of cost. A nicely trimmed 3-series BMW will set you back $50,000. You can get something similarly equipped from a US or Japanese firm for $35-40,000. Might not take the corners the same way, but it works.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 2):

the name makes 10k ... but a BMW is far better than a GM or any american car ...

IMO 

They are OK, I had a TT however and it was a real piece of crap. My dad had an A8 which he hated, and my brother had an A6 which he could not wait to get rid of.

So, we had three in the family, and we didn't do well with them. I don't want to bash Audi, but we didn't have such good luck.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4):

Wow that was bad luck ! Well I prefer BMW , BMW are the best cars ...

There are some but not too many. For most of the models are not sold there.

Audi: the only A3 is the TFSI. No diesel or the other gasoline engines available. Same with the A4, A6, A8 and the A2 was never sold there.

BMW: No 1er, and no disels for the other models. I do not think there is a 4 cylinder 3er sold there. No diesel X3 or X5.

No Skoda or Seat.(yes, they are really German).

Mercedes Benz: No A or B series. Diesel only for the E class. Do not think there are 4 cylynders there. No Viano. The Sprinter is a Dodge. Maybach? Smart sold soon. But not the Mitsubishi (nedcar) 4 four.

Ford: No Fiesta, Focus, S-Max, Mondeo or Transit.

The Opel Astra is a Saturn Astra. Vectra soon to come. No other German GM products. But the PremiumV6 from GM is sold in many vehicles notably the Suzuki XL7. And will be (already is in Europe) in the Alfa Romeos.

The Hyundai Sonata is German designed.

The German Toyota Avensis platform is sold as a Scion tc.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 6):

Interesting ... but why do you name Ford , AFAIK Ford is American ...

BMWs are expensive in the US, and are renown for electrical problems , e.g., windows not coming down, engines stalling, alarms that will not disengage, etc. They do sell though, and given their price, often are leased. Mercedes are popular but the brand is deteriorating as:

1. The use of Merecedes parts in Chryslers, a low cost American brand, is not a selling point to the affluent;
2. Mercedes models look too similar, and with models available from $25K to $150K, the high end purchasers may be a bit weary in shelling out that much for what is in essence, a well heeled Chrysler.

Volkwagen Jettas remain popular with the 20s crowd. Audis are somewhat big in the Northeast. My guess is the Qauttro all wheel drive system, which allows them to perform in the snow common in most areas of the northeast US, is a big selling point.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 2): A nicely trimmed 3-series BMW will set you back $50,000.

At the dealership my wife works at, the number reflects the price

3 series = 30-40K

5 series = 50-60K

7 Series = 70-80K

This is base price with all the common options.

It also reflects how many times a year you will have electrical problems.

At least its not like VW, never knowing if the engine will need to be replaced before or after you exceed the allowed milage or timeframe.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 3): but a BMW is far better than a GM or any american car ...

Not true, and BMW is inferior to many Japanese cars

Wow not really good feedback about the German cars ... wouldn´t have thought this ...

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 7): Interesting ... but why do you name Ford , AFAIK Ford is American ...

The thread is about German cars not companies.
Ford has been designing and building cars in Köln since 1931.

And I left out VW, No Tourans Caddys Polos, Fox or T5's in America

Ford Germany is the same as Gm Germany (Opel). The cars historically have been not sold in the USA so often.

[Edited 2007-04-30 23:43:17]

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter): Are there many German cars in the US

Yes. VW's, BMW's, Mercedes, and Audi's are everywhere.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter): Do Americans like German cars , or do they prefer American ones

Depends on the person.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 3): but a BMW is far better than a GM or any american car ...

Opinion? Never mind I just checked your age.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4): So, we had three in the family, and we didn't do well with them. I don't want to bash Audi, but we didn't have such good luck.

Don't feel bad Dtwcliipper, I bought a brand new 06 Audi 4.2 Quattro last year. I got rid of it 6 months later. What a piece of garbage car. The car was in the dealer for a total of 7 weeks out of 24. A/C quit working twice. Power windows stopped working, of course they were down, sunroof quit working, Power seat quit working twice, A total of 4 sensors that had to be replaced. I'll bash them for you. Absolutly the crappiest car I ever owned!!! Funny enough though it is also the only foreign car I ever bought. Never again. Traded it in on a 07 Dodge Charger SRT8. Never been happier.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 5): BMW are the best cars ...

Yep, that's why I just read that the 3 series and 5 series just recieved very low grades by the NHTSA in rear end crashes. The only BMW that recieved a good grade is the 7 series. I am looking for the article I just read and will post a link as soon as I find it again.

Quoting Charger (Reply 12):

man look at the M6 it´s the best car I´ve ever seen !

Quoting Charger (Reply 12): Opinion? Never mind I just checked your age.

Thats what all Germans say  

Quoting Charger (Reply 12): Yep, that's why I just read that the 3 series and 5 series just recieved very low grades by the NHTSA in rear end crashes. The only BMW that recieved a good grade is the 7 series. I am looking for the article I just read and will post a link as soon as I find it again.

Wow , embarrassing for Germany ...

My Brother was stationed in Germany for 2 years. He came home and bought a Jetta GTI. Absolutly loves it. But he paid a premium for it. A Japanese import of similar quality would be half as much, and he wouldn't have to use high test gas.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 3): the name makes 10k ... but a BMW is far better than a GM or any american car ...

Uh oh, this thread can become interesting ....   

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 7): Interesting ... but why do you name Ford , AFAIK Ford is American ...

Ford has very different products in Europe then it does in North America. And the products that do have the same name, ave usually better in Europe then they are here. Two examples would be the Ford Focus (we are still have the first generation) and is far inferior in handling/performance and quality of materials to the European model. Also, the Ford Mondeo was sold here in the 1990's as the Ford Contour/Mercury Mystique and was a very poor copy of the European original.

Also, this might shock you. VW is always a good 2 years behind when it comes to some cars in North America. I hope you're sitting down for this one, but 2007 is the first year for the Golf 5 (now sold as the Rabbit) in North America!

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 9): Not true, and BMW is inferior to many Japanese cars

Like I said, this thread could get interesting ....  

OK, here is my over generalization of the way Americans feel towards cars.

Americans love German cars but feel that they are too expensive and the quality not as good as the Japanese. Americans feel that the German cars perform very well and if you have more money than you know what to do with German cars are a good choice. Volkswagon has the reputation of being a lot of performance for the money but lower quality than Japanese cars.

Americans love American cars but feel the quality isn't as good as Japanese cars and cost more to own because the resale value is low. Americans also love American cars because they hire Americans, it's better for our economy, and are normally big, comfortable and a lot cheaper than German cars.

Americans love Japanese cars because they are the least expensive to own due to high resale value. Ameicans feel that the Japense cars are the highest quality, and in many cases perfom as well or better than German cars.

So, there you have it, Americans Love Cars but hate to ride in busses or other forms of public transist.

Here are some random thoughts with no scientific research backing them up.....

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter): Do Americans like German cars , or do they prefer American ones ??

Americans like German cars. I think most Americans would prefer to own a German car based upon the test drive experience only. However, some of the considerations below come into play when explaining why more German cars are not seen in the US. Many parts of the US are flooded with nice German cars while some towns have an extremely small precentage of foreign cars (regardless of origin).

German cars are substanitally more expensive to repair than German cars available in the States. These cars are also more expensive to purchase outright. The reliabilitiy of German cars is quite poor over the last several years (particularly with "systems" issues). A basic/common American car will almost certainly have better reliability than a VW (basically the entry level German car in the US).

A fair number of US buyers are not enthusiasts. For such buyers (on paper), US cars do offer a pretty striking value when looking at space, power, etc. However, I personally would argue that a more expensive Toyota represents better long term value than a cheaper (but similarly spec'd American car)

Many people I know (who shop for American cars) have a pretty good idea of what they are going to buy before they test drive a single vehicle (many times they will simply turn in the old XYZ model for the latest XYZ model every few years). Hell, I bought 2 cars in one year without a test drive.

Some people believe that it's their duty to buy an American vehicle. I've known a few people who fought in WWII and have sworn never to knowingly buy a German or Japanese product (although that must be pretty tough these days - however, I do respect their decision). Other shoppers buy American vehicles because they believe it supports their neighbor (or shows solidarity with a union). This is something else that I'd personally dispute as I can easily buy a Toyota (or Honda) made in America by Americans (which isn't always the case with American brands as some buyers might believe).

Something else to consider is that many German cars have more standard equipment in the US than one would expect in Europe (or at least this has been the case in the past). The growing list of common "standard" equipment in the US is actually creating greater value for those who wanted the equipment anyway ("most people"). However, the other effect of this is that the baseline price will also be higher and may discourage some buyers.

Finally, the pricing games that are played with American cars are a joke. Several months ago a dealer was selling the remaining stock of (new) 2006 Ford Tarus sedans for 45% off the sticker price. Under more normal negotiation circumstances, the negotiation room on domestic cars is generally higher than on foreign cars.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of the German car driving experience but am waiting until I have more money to spend on buying a higher performance German car. Until then I have a Mazda MX-5 and Lexus ES300 - Both quite reliable and better designed than any comprable American car. I'd never consider an American car apart from a full size truck or large SUV (if I thought I needed either) or C6 Vette. Giving it a second thought, I'm not sure that I'll even bother (eventually) with a German car considering the maintenance issues (and associated cost of repair).

Some of my contributions are probably obvious (and parallel rationalizations could exist for a number of other products/countries) - Others are probably limited in application and reflect only things I've observed personally.

I should add that I see a ton of German cars in the US. What information are you using to form your opinion (or your suggestion of doubt) that the US doesn't like German cars?

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 7): Interesting ... but why do you name Ford , AFAIK Ford is American ...

Ford has a special design studio in Europe to cater to the European market. Of course Ford also has a seperate design studio for the US market.

That's why you won't find a Mondeo in the US, it was designed for Europe (I still think the Mondeo could do really well in the USA). Similarly, a lot of the Ford cars and trucks that are sold in the USA are not for sale in Europe. For instance, the F-150 is one of the best selling trucks in the USA, but as far as I know it is not available in Europe. If you desperately want one you will have to import it.

This design studio is also the reason why Ford is a big player in Europe. The other US players (cadilac, buick, dodge , Chrysler) are very rare because they build cars most Europeans don't want.

Also, alot of of American car manufacturers like to use the terms "German engineered/designed or European engineered/designed" in their advertisements.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 16):

now that was a good resumee ...  

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 15): Also, this might shock you. VW is always a good 2 years behind when it comes to some cars in North America.

As said : embarrasing ...

Germany always brag saying that all over the world that the People admire Germany for his cars , and I experienced it like this in South America and European Countries , just in Japan I barely saw no German Car ...

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 18): That's why you won't find a Mondeo in the US, it was designed for Europe (I still think the Mondeo could do really well in the USA).

Wasn't the Mondeo the same car as the (now discontinued) Ford Contour?

I am not stating this as fact but I do believe I've heard the above somewhere.

German cars are made for Germany. We drive fast here. A shit American car would never handel the typical German driver. Not being mean, just the truth. When I drive every day on the autobahn I never drive under 100mph and EVERYDAY (work day) I drive over 120mph. Howmany Americans can say that?

Quoting Molykote (Reply 17):

Thank you Molykote for this long answer ! Very interesting ...

Quoting Molykote (Reply 17): I should add that I see a ton of German cars in the US. What information are you using to form your opinion (or your suggestion of doubt) that the US doesn't like German cars?

NO just couriosity , and Pics and videos of the US where I never see a German car  

Quoting Molykote (Reply 17): German cars are substanitally more expensive to repair than German cars available in the States. These cars are also more expensive to purchase outright. The reliabilitiy of German cars is quite poor over the last several years (particularly with "systems" issues). A basic/common American car will almost certainly have better reliability than a VW (basically the entry level German car in the US).

Well bad for the German car makers if they build bad cars ... nobody will buy ...

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 19): Also, alot of of American car manufacturers like to use the terms "German engineered/designed or European engineered/designed" in their advertisements.

Well Garmany has a good name in Technical skills

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 20): Germany always brag saying that all over the world that the People admire Germany for his cars

America does like to brag about German cars, they are still a status symbol in many ways, even VW's. They just don't like to admit the German cars are better then their own ...     

Seriously though, it's hard to make a direct comparission with the MB, BMW, Audi, VW's in Europe with the ones here. For example, in Germany it is not hard to find a MB or BMW without air conditioning, but you won't find one in North America.

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 18): That's why you won't find a Mondeo in the US, it was designed for Europe (I still think the Mondeo could do really well in the USA).

As long as they would keep it to Euro specs, and not try to fit it to North American comfort levels. That's why it did so poorly here back in the 90s.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 22): German cars are made for Germany. We drive fast here. A shit American car would never handel the typical German driver. Not being mean, just the truth. When I drive every day on the autobahn I never drive under 100mph and EVERYDAY (work day) I drive over 120mph. Howmany Americans can say that?

What you say may be 100% correct....... but seems to be off the topic of the OP's question.

Were you responding to someone above?

I don't think anyone is unaware of the fact that some sections of the German Autobahn have no restricted speed. I also don't think that anyone is unaware of the fact that European cars (at least those above the econobox class) are often driven at high speeds. What is your point?

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 24): America does like to brag about German cars, they are still a status symbol in many ways, even VW's. They just don't like to admit the German cars are better then their own ... duck Wink

   

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 24): Seriously though, it's hard to make a direct comparission with the MB, BMW, Audi, VW's in Europe with the ones here. For example, in Germany it is not hard to find a MB or BMW without air conditioning, but you won't find one in North America.

because of the Climate , you can´t survive in Arizona without Air Conditioning in Berlin yes ..

Quoting Molykote (Reply 25):

german bragging  

German cars are total overkill in America. They are not used as designed. Just the same as an American car here is way out of its league. And not used as it was designed.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 26): because of the Climate , you can´t survive in Arizona without Air Conditioning in Berlin yes ..

I'd rather live in Arizona with out a/c as opposed to Germany in the Summer. The humidity during a German summer is just brutal.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 21): Wasn't the Mondeo the same car as the (now discontinued) Ford Contour? I am not stating this as fact but I do believe I've heard the above somewhere.

Yes, I posted that in reply 15.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 25): What is your point?

I guess that in America A good reliable Honda or Toyota is probably a better choice than an expensive BMW or Audi. Because it does not need to be driven fast.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 19): Also, alot of of American car manufacturers like to use the terms "German engineered/designed or European engineered/designed" in their advertisements.

Yeah, I also noticed that it is popular in the US of A. Last year I saw a TV ad for some Japanese car manufacturer on Fox, they also used a slogan like: "High-tech from Japan, tested on the German Autobahn, now in the USA".

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4): They are OK, I had a TT however and it was a real piece of crap. My dad had an A8 which he hated, and my brother had an A6 which he could not wait to get rid of.

Quoting Charger (Reply 12): I bought a brand new 06 Audi 4.2 Quattro last year. I got rid of it 6 months later. What a piece of garbage car. The car was in the dealer for a total of 7 weeks out of 24.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with Audis. In my family it's the other way around, we got rid of all the Mercedes POS cars and switched to Audi, not a single unscheduled stop in the shop so far. My father is driving the A8 4.2l and I have to say that it is the best car I've ever driven in my life.

Quoting Soylentgreen (Reply 8): Volkwagen Jettas remain popular with the 20s crowd.

True, I also noticed that Jettas are pretty popular in the USA.

Patrick

Konstantin,

Americans DO like German cars, no doubt about it. Quite a few folks here have given examples of poor reliability but overall German cars are better engineered than American ones. My family has had 3 VW Golf Mk IVs and they were excellent to own. My Golf was only about $500 more than the comparable Focus but the quality inside put the Ford to shame. I drove a Seat Altea in Germany last year and found that VW hasn't lost its touch.

German cars may not be popular everywhere in the US, but both BMW and Mercedes have had record sales for the last 3-4 years in a row, selling well over 200K cars a year (I still remember when Mercedes used to sell 60K cars a year in the early 90's). Here in LA particularly there are more 3-series than Honda Civics on the street. I used to live in the Northeast, and the area is flooded with VW's and Audis.

Most shoppers still prefer Japanese cars for reliability (although Toyota is starting to lack in that dept with many recalls), but the driving experience of the Germans is superior, not to mention the design. American cars, sadly, rely on heavy discounts to sell in proper numbers. They mostly sell in parts of the country where folks still think that buying American is their duty or imports are still making their way in. Otherwise, American brands continue to lose market share nationwide.

Right now I'm driving a Ford Mustang mostly cause it was a cheap convertible (hey, I live in LA!), but my next car will most likely be a Golf GTI Mk V with the DSG. I'm visiting Germany again in 3 weeks (flying to DUS on LTU) and can't wait to get my hands on a European car again!

Cheers!

Charles

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 31): True, I also noticed that Jettas are pretty popular in the USA.

Most of them are TDi's, and this is basically the only car available over here as a diesel.

If VW were to import the new Polo Bluemotion, they'd sell like warme semmel!

Quoting Molykote (Reply 25): I don't think anyone is unaware of the fact that some sections of the German Autobahn have no restricted speed. I also don't think that anyone is unaware of the fact that European cars (at least those above the econobox class) are often driven at high speeds. What is your point?

Also, EVERY freeway (autobahn) has no speed limit. not just select ones.When you come in the middle of a city or around an interchange is where the speed limits are. Not just select ones.

And yes econoboxes are going over 100mph. A 80hp VW polo will go 110mph and you see them everyday doing so. What are sold as Dodge Sprinters in America are going 90 down the Autobahn in large numbers. You go 100 mph in the middle lane and you will get run over.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 32):

Interesting how good Japanese cars are doing ! The Japanese did the best cars - they deserve to sell most cars ... now one German Car builder needs to build the best one and cars will just sell as japanese ones ..

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 32): but my next car will most likely be a Golf GTI Mk V with the DSG.

VW's DSG kicks seriously ass!

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 32): I'm visiting Germany again in 3 weeks (flying to DUS on LTU)

Let me know when you have a few hours to waste in the afternoon, we could meet for a bit spotting at DUS and a beer afterwards. I will try to bring my father's Audi A8, then we can go for a joyride on the Autobahn. 

Patrick

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 34): Also, EVERY freeway (autobahn) has no speed limit. not just select ones.When you come in the middle of a city or around an interchange is where the speed limits are. Not just select ones. And yes econoboxes are going over 100mph. A 80hp VW polo will go 110mph and you see them everyday doing so. What are sold as Dodge Sprinters in America are going 90 down the Autobahn in large numbers. You go 100 mph in the middle lane and you will get run over.

Man that´s what I love in Germany , when I´ve got my driver's license I´ll go straight to the BMW ""shop" (how do you call it ??) and buy a good M6 

Konstantin

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 34): Also, EVERY freeway (autobahn) has no speed limit. not just select ones

The A40 has a speedlimit the whole length.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 35): Interesting how good Japanese cars are doing ! The Japanese did the best cars - they deserve to sell most cars ... now one German Car builder needs to build the best one and cars will just sell as japanese ones ..

Interestingly though, Japanese cars, with the exception of Toyota, don't have that good of a reputation in Germany, but that trend is changing.

look at this beauty ! My future car !

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 36): I will try to bring my father's Audi A8, then we can go for a joyride on the Autobahn.

Can I come? Düsseldorf to Venlo in a A8 would only be about 20 minutes away.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 28): German cars are total overkill in America. They are not used as designed. Just the same as an American car here is way out of its league. And not used as it was designed.

I don't know that they are total overkill. One can enjoy the good driving behavior of a higher end German car without nearing top speed. I grew up in Pennsylvania (a heavily wooded US state) with an A4 and BMW 3, 5, and 7 series available for my driving pleasure. Pennsylvania is full of secondary roads much like the ones in your video (although some are in poor condition). However, one can appreciate the differences between an ordinary and dynamically pleasing car on secondary roads better than he (or she) can at 100-120mph on a highway (at least a fairly straight one like that in your video). I've never driven in Germany but I've driven a number of times on a track and still get more enjoyment out of the handling of a car than the raw power or top speed on a highway.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 29): Yes, I posted that in reply 15.

I didn't notice that due to my (long) initial reply coming in at post 17. I was probably typing my reply when yours posted. Thanks.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 33): Most of them are TDi's, and this is basically the only car available over here as a diesel.

Interesting, I thought that VW Diesels are not available in the USA.

Last February I drove the Jetta of my best friend's cousin from Sacramento to South Lake Tahoe, the biggest surprise for me was that it had a manual gear box.  

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 38): The A40 has a speedlimit the whole length.

And you better follow it in the area in and around Essen, they have a shitload of speed traps installed on the A40. The other way around in Dortmund... everyone is going with 160/170 kph over the A40 with 120 kph speed limit. 

Patrick

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 9): Not true, and BMW is inferior to many Japanese cars

Would you like to back this comment with some actual facts or experiences? If not, your comment means nothing.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 38): The A40 has a speedlimit the whole length.

That can not be. I know from Duisburg to the Netherlands border is wide open. I do it at least once a month. Now through Essen and Gelsenkirchen to Dortmund is a speed limit for sure.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 41): Can I come?

Of course!

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 41): Düsseldorf to Venlo in a A8 would only be about 20 minutes away.

A trip to Venlo is a bloody good idea actually!  I can not promise the A8 but I will try my best.

Patrick

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 43): Interesting, I thought that VW Diesels are not available in the USA.

I'm not sure about the US, but for 2007 and I believe 2008, TDi's are not available in Canada (with the exception of the Touraeg), partly due to "enviromental concerns" which basically means they've been selling so well that the CAW (Canadian Auto Workers union) feels threatened by it, but mostly because of the fact that the diesel in Canada has a very high sulphur content and has been giving VW lot's of warranty issues. You can still get Jetta/Golf/Passat TDi's, but they are 2006 models.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 43): Last February I drove the Jetta of my best friend's cousin from Sacramento to South Lake Tahoe, the biggest surprise for me was that it had a manual gear box.

A manual gear box for a North American is where you have to manually put the gear selector from "P" to "D" ....  

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 43): And you better follow it in the area in and around Essen, they have a shitload of speed traps installed on the A40.

I had to learn my lesson the hard way ....           

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 22): When I drive every day on the autobahn I never drive under 100mph and EVERYDAY (work day) I drive over 120mph. Howmany Americans can say that?

Well bully for you!

Considering that the US Interstate system is 46,837 miles (75,376 km) and the German Autobahn is only 11,000 km (6,800 miles) in length it not surprising that it is built to a higher standard allowing you drive at high speed.

Now, back to the crux of the issue, and away extolling the virtues of German cars, German cars are popular here, but cost and quality have become an issue.
I turned in my TT for a Mercury, and will trade that in for a Lincoln next year. Sorry, but I live in Detroit, and I will do my part by buying American. I saw no great jump in quality between the German and American cars...myth busted, save for the fact, that my TT had to be towed to the dealer four times, and my "merc" has never had an issue!

I bet you will change your tune after a few hours on the autobahn.

A high speed drive will make your pulse race as fast as the car.


Edit, I forgot to add the quote from somewhere above.

[Edited 2007-05-01 00:39:11]

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 45): That can not be. I know from Duisburg to the Netherlands border is wide open.

They could have changed it in recent years, there was a speedlimit zone from Moers to the NL Grenze with a tempolimit of 120km/h which was in 2004.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 49): A high speed drive will make your pulse race as fast as the car.

I can think a few other ways to get my pulse racing thank you!

Quoting Charger (Reply 12): Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 5): BMW are the best cars ...

Your own opinion.

BMW's are great for business and good for security but I prefer the Lexus. The SC430 is a nice car that can easily do 100+mph. I know first hand as it cut my time from MIA-MLB to 2 hours.

Hunter

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 49): A high speed drive will make your pulse race as fast as the car.

         ................   

Well go to sleep now ! Enjoy discussing ! Bye !

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): Well bully for you!

No, not bully for me. It is just the big difference in driving here or there.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): I saw no great jump in quality between the German and American cars...myth busted

This is the whole point of this thread. German cars in America are nice. But not necessary. It is a luxury. Here, it is really a safety factor when you do much driving at what Americans would consider incredibly stupid speeds. But which are an everyday thing and not even thought about twice.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 46): A trip to Venlo is a bloody good idea actually! I can not promise the A8 but I will try my best.

Do try your best! LOL! I'm actually going to stay in Heidelberg with some relatives of my bf but we are going up to the Ruhr area for the last 2-3 days to visit friends. We'll be staying in Bottrop, and will most definitely visit Essen (where my bf used to live), Duesseldorf, and Koln. Spotting at DUS is already on my to-do list!

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 40): look at this beauty ! My future car !

Can I borrow it once you get it! I'll be careful with it, I promise!

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 47): A manual gear box for a North American is where you have to manually put the gear selector from "P" to "D" ....

LOL! I heard that about 90-95% of all cars sold in the US are automatic...so sad. Even Ferraris and Lambos...must rich folks here in LA won't touch a Gallardo or a F430 without the manumatic option!

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 47): A manual gear box for a North American is where you have to manually put the gear selector from "P" to "D" ....

  

...but I admit, I am a big automatic fan as well!

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 55): Spotting at DUS is already on my to-do list!

Let me know when you are at DUS and I'll try my best to be there together with the A8. 

Patrick

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 52): The SC430 is a nice car that can easily do 100+mph. I know first hand as it cut my time from MIA-MLB to 2 hours.

I don't see what the big deal is? I've seen Cavalier's and Geo Metro's do 100; albeit not eloquently. The SC430 is an overweight turd.

[Edited 2007-05-01 01:07:26]

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4): So, we had three in the family, and we didn't do well with them. I don't want to bash Audi, but we didn't have such good luck.

I have nothing but good things to say about my Audi A3, which I've had for about a year and a half. No unscheduled maintenance or problems of any kind. The DSG transmission kicks ass.

I love the way German cars drive (specifically my Audi).....

And in Los Angeles, there are a crapload of German cars.

AUDI ANNOUNCES RECORD U.S. SALES DURING 2006
http://media.audiusa.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9818

The BMW Group in the U.S. (BMW and MINI brands combined) today reported its best-ever annual sales
http://www.lexdon.com/article/bmw_gr..._reports_strongest_year/69013.html

Mercedes-Benz Rings in the New Year with Record 2006 Sales
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/03/032870.html

So, it seems as though Americans are increasingly fond of German cars (despite some naysayers and a strong Euro)

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 55): Can I borrow it once you get it! I'll be careful with it, I promise!

sure .. no problem ...

The thing that impressed me with the two Audis I have owned (90 Audi 80 and a 91 200) is the quality of the body. Both cars were 10 years old when I bought them and were driven in Pennsylvania winters the whole time, yet no paint or body issues. The problems I did have were with the electric system and finding affordable parts.

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 57): I don't see what the big deal is? I've seen Cavalier's and Geo Metro's do 100; albeit not eloquently

Many US cars are capable of doing 100mph +, but due to their poor handling capabilities, I wouldn't risk it. I drove my dad's Buick Century down to Vancouver last weekend, anything over 130km/h was not a good idea. Even my 2000 Mustang GT was a slob at higher speeds.

Drive a VW Passat or Golf at 160km/h, you won't even notice the speed.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 61): Many US cars are capable of doing 100mph +, but due to their poor handling capabilities, I wouldn't risk it.

Oh, i'm aware. I was referring to the poster who was gloating about the not-so-great Lexus SC430. I've taken my E46 3-series to 120mph a few times, it handled like other cars going 70.

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 62): Oh, i'm aware. I was referring to the poster who was gloating about the not-so-great Lexus SC430

Sorry, wasn't trying to imply anything ...  

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 61): Drive a VW Passat or Golf at 160km/h, you won't even notice the speed.

  

Two weeks ago in a Golf - which is one of the company cars of my best friend's father - on the A33 between Paderborn and some junction to the A44 in the middle of nowhere:

Me: "Hey, we're driving 190 kph, I didn't notice until I looked to the speed indicator, pretty cool for a Golf! Eh?"  

Friend: "Ja, normal! ... Scheiss Gladbacher!"    (we were returning from the Paderborn vs. 1860 game and listened to the Gladbach vs. Dortmund radio report on the way home).

Seriously, I was very surprised how well the Golf was doing at such a high speed. I had the Golf IV myself but it is nothing compared to the current Golf V, it has an awesome performance at high speed which is even more fun with the 6-speed DSG!

Patrick

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 64): Seriously, I was very surprised how well the Golf was doing at such a high speed. I had the Golf IV myself but it is nothing compared to the current Golf V, it has an awesome performance at high speed which is even more fun with the 6-speed DSG!

No doubt, I took the GTI out for a spin, but can't afford it yet, so I had to settle for the Golf 4. Oh well, still a great car to drive.

How well are the Jetta's doing over there? Interesting that the current Jetta has had the Bora name taken off.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 64): Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 61): Drive a VW Passat or Golf at 160km/h, you won't even notice the speed.

I third that, I was on the A7 this morning for but a moment. I wanted to pass a few cars so as not to get stuck behind them once I got on the slip road, but had decided not to exceed 180 km/h. When I looked at the speedo, I was already there - in complete comfort and with all the stability I could have asked for. 

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 65): How well are the Jetta's doing over there?

Not that well, I recently saw one and thought, "Well that's rare!" I guess people over here prefer the Golf or Golf Plus for the additional space and flexibility. A "sedan" is far from the begin-all and end-all for cars in Europe, as you probably know.

Don't forget that some 'German' cars in the North American market are actually made in the USA or Mexico. M-B makes the M series SUV in Alabama. BMW makes 3 series and sports models in South Carolina. The Jetta and Golf/Rabbit models are made in Mexico. Some VW cars here may use parts from Brazil and elsewhere.
Most M-B, Porsche, BMW and Audi cars sold here are mainly as status cars, but a significant number of buyers do buy them for their excellent handling, despite our strict speed limits. VW has revived in the NA market by selling their handling and performance and not being 'boring' cars. A very small number of M-B Maybach's have been also sold here. For all of those brands, the USA/Canada market is a very significant part of there total sales.
VW imported the Beetle models since the early 1950's to the 1970's. VW had a plant in western Pennsylvania in the late 1970's to the mid-1980's for Rabbit (Golf) model, including a 2 passenger pick up body.
GM imported various Opel models from the late 1950's to the mid-1970's. They stopped due to serious problems with quality, rusting, increasing pollution controls.
Ford imported small numbers of German made models in the 1960's, the Sierra based Mercur XR-4 and Scorpion as the Mercur Scorpion at USA Mercury brand of Ford dealers in the mid to late 1980's, with poor sales. Ford's German based designed studios had significant influence for the USA made Mercury/Ford Cougar (1999-2002).

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 65): I took the GTI out for a spin, but can't afford it yet, so I had to settle for the Golf 4.

The new Golf is expensive as hell! Actually I know nobody who bought one, all of my friends who drive a Golf V have it sponsored by Mum & Dad or stopped smoking to finance it.  

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 65): Oh well, still a great car to drive.

It's awesome! A Golf with a proper motor and DSG is the perfect car IMO (at least for the routes I have to drive frequently).

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 65): How well are the Jetta's doing over there?

Very bad, I see more Jettas in the USA than in Germany (no joke!).

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 65): Interesting that the current Jetta has had the Bora name taken off.

It had another name in between if I am not mistaken, I think it was called "Vento" for some time but I am not sure.

Patrick

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 67): The Jetta and Golf/Rabbit models are made in Mexico.

Actually, a slight correction on that. North-American bound Jettas and new Beetles are indeed manufactured at the Puebla facility, but all Golfs/Rabbits/GTIs and also Jetta wagons (you know, back when they still sold them here) aren't in demand enough in the US and therefore are still built in Germany.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 35): The Japanese did the best cars - they deserve to sell most cars ... now one German Car builder needs to build the best one and cars will just sell as japanese ones ..

I would say that Japan and Germany are equally adept at engineering, and actually quite similar in another way: they're both known for excellence in automobiles, audio, and and optics. For cars Germany has VW, BMW and Merc while Japan has Honda and Toyota. As far as audio, Germany has Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic while Japan has Sony and Audio-Technica. For optics, Japan has Canon, Nikon, and Minolta while Germany has Zeiss. I also own a Plaubel and a Rolleiflex, both magnificent cameras in their day.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 32): Quite a few folks here have given examples of poor reliability but overall German cars are better engineered than American ones.

   The interiors of American cars are especially appalling. Cheaper-feeling plastics than China uses, and panel gaps visible from space. And the build quality is atrocious! Hell, at least the French make their cars look nice before they all fall apart.   

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 28): German cars are total overkill in America. They are not used as designed. Just the same as an American car here is way out of its league. And not used as it was designed.

BS, total BS. Obviously you have never driven on the Kennedy in Chicago, or the 75 between Chicago and Detroit much less the Interstates, especially the ones in the western states like Montana which eliminated the speed limit for years, but reinstated it because of liability issues IIRC. Highway funds from the feds are tied to speed limit laws here also.

Many interstates are 70- 80MPH limits and people usually exceed the limits here by 5-15 mph.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 22): German cars are made for Germany. We drive fast here. A shit American car would never handel the typical German driver. Not being mean, just the truth. When I drive every day on the autobahn I never drive under 100mph and EVERYDAY (work day) I drive over 120mph. Howmany Americans can say that?

Please get over yourself. I get passed like I am standing still every time I am on the Interstate the whole time and I drive about 75-80 because of a slight problem with the authorities a while back.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 61): Many US cars are capable of doing 100mph +, but due to their poor handling capabilities, I wouldn't risk it.

You seem to know nothing of American cars, how we drive, or what we drive.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 47): Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 43): Interesting, I thought that VW Diesels are not available in the USA. I'm not sure about the US, but for 2007 and I believe 2008

TDIs seem to be about 25% of the VWs here.

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 44): Would you like to back this comment with some actual facts or experiences? If not, your comment means nothing.

My wife is the warranty administrator for BMW and VW in Central Kentucky. Her Honda counterpart makes the Maytag repairman seem busy. Honda sells 20 times the units that BMW and VW combined sell here.

The 3 series introduction a few years ago was not good, but VW is simply unbelievable. They do less work on the used Buick's and Oldsmobile's they sell.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 24): For example, in Germany it is not hard to find a MB or BMW without air conditioning, but you won't find one in North America.

People that live in the upper midwest like to omit the AC, and I remember being in a MB with no air in Wisconsin. You almost never need it.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 70): People that live in the upper midwest like to omit the AC, and I remember being in a MB with no air in Wisconsin. You almost never need it.

AC is vital for making the defroster work properly. A luxury car should never be sold without it even in cold climates. I real dumb move buying a MB without A/C.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 30): I guess that in America A good reliable Honda or Toyota is probably a better choice than an expensive BMW or Audi. Because it does not need to be driven fast.

I can not decide if you are a troll or totally uninformed. Your knowledge of America, American Cars, and Japanese Cars is non existant. BTW, I have worked in Hamburg, Germany and the Autobahn there does have a speed limit. In fact the radio in my car would warn me all the time I was exceeding it. I-5 in California is about as fast as most of the German Freeways. Allowing cars to run over 100 mph on any freeway anywhere in the world is not a good idea. I'm just wondering how long before the EU tells Germany to post speed limits on all Freeways!

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 70): The 3 series introduction a few years ago was not good

I don't know why you keep saying this. In addition to last year's World car of the year, they can't keep them in the dealerships.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 70): My wife is the warranty administrator for BMW and VW in Central Kentucky. Her Honda counterpart makes the Maytag repairman seem busy. Honda sells 20 times the units that BMW and VW combined sell here.

Well my family's two BMW's have been in only for scheduled maintenance, which is free 4years/50,000 miles for everything but tires. That is not the case for Lexus, Infiniti, Honda, Toyota or Nissan. Can you please explain your original statement to me again?

I like my '07 335i, it does everything well. It feels like I'm driving a car and not an appliance. My g/f ditched her Maxima for a '07 328i, very nice car. I've had 4 BMW's and never had a problem with any of them.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 3): but a BMW is far better than a GM or any american car ...

Must have never worked on a BMW 3 series from the 80s. The BOSCH K-Jetronic fuel injection system known as CIS was known by mechanics as Continuous Investment System. When CISE came out Expensive was added on.

Quoting Charger (Reply 12): Yes. VW's, BMW's, Mercedes, and Audi's are everywhere.

I have had three MBs, but 21 US cars. I still have one MB, a 1980 300TD.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 43): Interesting, I thought that VW Diesels are not available in the USA.

Was passed by one on my way to work this morning.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): I saw no great jump in quality between the German and American cars...myth busted, save for the fact, that my TT had to be towed to the dealer four times, and my "merc" has never had an issue!

I am always hearing people in my MB club bitching about the repairs needed on their newer cars. The complaint always revolves around " My 2005 MB breaks is always in the shop, my 1978 MB never broke down. You can fill in what ever model you like.

Quoting T56A15 (Reply 60): The problems I did have were with the electric system and finding affordable parts.

That is usually the problem. I just bought a used oil cooler for my 1980 300TD. A new on was $410, used $125. That is very high, considering I bought a new radiator last year for $150. I have found some MB parts to be cheap and others to be insanely expensive. I had to buy a new rear window for the 300TD last summer (some knuckle head broke it) It had to be shipped from Germany and it was only $340. That is rather cheap for a back glass. 1990s Saturns tend to be around $600.

Quoting Soylentgreen (Reply 8): 1. The use of Mercedes parts in Chryslers, a low cost American brand, is not a selling point to the affluent; 2. Mercedes models look too similar, and with models available from $25K to $150K, the high end purchasers may be a bit weary in shelling out that much for what is in essence, a well heeled Chrysler.

I would not consider Chrysler a low cost brand. They sell a wide range of vehicles and sell at many price points. Most Americans do not consider $40,000 trucks and SUV low cost. Chrysler builds cars within 50% of the average price of a US built cars. That is where a company makes money. I doubt either of those two reasons are hurting sales. Low quality ratings and frequent need of repairs are what hurt sales. Even if you have more money than you can count you still don't want to take your car in for service all the time, because that is inconvenient.

Super expensive doesn mean profits. 1,000,000 $24,000 cars will make big bucks for a big company 2500 $150,000 cars don't make big profits for big business.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 70): People that live in the upper midwest like to omit the AC, and I remember being in a MB with no air in Wisconsin. You almost never need it.

I did not have A/C in my 1972 Mercedes 220D or my 73 220. Of course today I doubt you can get a new MB without A/C

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 71): AC is vital for making the defroster work properly. A luxury car should never be sold without it even in cold climates

. The A/C helps take the humidity out of the air on defrost, but back in the days when most cars didn't have A/C the defroster still worked. I have had several cars with no A/C or A/C from the 1960s when it did not work with the defroster.
Many old MBs were far from luxury. My 1972 Cadillac was a great luxury car; PW, PDL, PB, PS, PWR Seat, cruise, tilt/telescop, Leather, Twilight sentinel, Lamp monitors, climate control 8-track, etc. My 72 MB 220D was more like bottom of the line Chevy in terms of interior appointments and features. It had manual brakes, Manual steering, crank windows, no A/C, vinyl seats, and AM radio. The original sticker on those cars were similar.

I also had a 1980 Cadillac Fleetwood and that was way fancier than my 80 MB 300TD and the Caddy was $8000 cheaper when new.

All that being said I still like the MBs.

1980 Mercedes-Benz 300TD, Blue Water Ferry, in MI.

There are alot of German cars in the US. I drive one, my parents drive one, alot of my friends drive German cars. I drive a VW and my parents drive mercedes. VW and Audi are very popular with all age groups also BMW too. I love German cars I could not imagine driving anything else really. I am not planning on driving anything but a VW, Audi, BMW Mercedes etc..
I love my VW Touareg V8 it is an amazing SUV, feels like im am driving a sports car on the highway but it still weighs 5300lbs and drives like a when I take it off road. Only bad thing is the best mileage I ever got in one tank was 14mpg.

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 74): I like my '07 335i, it does everything well. It feels like I'm driving a car and not an appliance

That's perhaps my biggest gripe with Japanese cars, they look like appliances. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, they work just fine for folks that don't want to think about their cars at all. Just turn the key in the morning and go, kinda like making coffee or using the microwave. An appliance, reliable, always there when you need it, but totally unexciting to look at. The best example of what I'm saying is the Toyota Camry from 1997-2001. It looks like the engineers fed the specs into a computer and it produced the car, no styling whatsoever....The Japanese had great style at one time (one of my faves of all time is the Lexus SC400 from 1992), but they seem to have lost their touch.

...German cars have had their quality issues, no doubt, and things that may seem trivial in a $12000 KIA are ridiculous in a $56K Audi. Still, German cars look way better (IMO) than Japanese cars, and drive better too. As for the American cars, I agree with a comment above about the interior plastics and panel gaps. They get the job done and the reliability has improved enormously though. My 04 Mustang has covered 34K miles with no problems whatsoever, but you do get what you pay for. The interior has more hard plastics than a Toys 'R Us!

Cheers!
Charles

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 77): they look like appliances

My comment was directed towards the driving experience, they took out all road feel, steering is bland, brakes are non-linear, jounce and rebound in the suspension is non-linear in their rates and even differs wheel to wheel - my biggest gripe. I've had two Japanese cars, they are made well and last a very long time - which takes a lot of engineering to do, but they have no soul.

I just bought a car last November, and I had fully planned on picking up a VW. I considered the Rabbit (golf), GTI, and Eos convertible.

However, after considering all the quality problems my friends and I have experienced with Mexican-built VWs, and the high cost of repair, I took a look at Honda and found the perfect vehicle for me.

I love the way German cars fee... love the smooth gear shifting and authoritative handling, but it's no longer worth the price premium and maintenance headache.

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 57): I don't see what the big deal is? I've seen Cavalier's and Geo Metro's do 100; albeit not eloquently. The SC430 is an overweight turd.

Its more stable than a metro and cavalier at those speeds.

My dad owned a 740 and it was nice. But the ride was too stiff.

MCOflyer

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 68): all of my friends who drive a Golf V have (...) or stopped smoking to finance it.

Now there's a positive side effect if I've ever heard of one! 

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 68): A Golf with a proper motor

Careful, you'll get LOT767-andsoon in here proclaiming that nothing you could ever fit in a Golf is a "proper motor"!  

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 68): I think it was called "Vento" for some time but I am not sure.

You're right though, first it was the Jetta, then the Vento, then the Bora and now the Jetta again. The Vento was sort of the same generation as the Golf Mk III and its interior looked just as terrible.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 72): Allowing cars to run over 100 mph on any freeway anywhere in the world is not a good idea. I'm just wondering how long before the EU tells Germany to post speed limits on all Freeways!

Like you said:

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 72): I can not decide if you are a troll or totally uninformed.

   Compared to country roads, our Autobahn network has a very neat safety record. Where it's necessary there are speed limits, but where it's unnecessary there aren't any so as not to interfere with the flow of traffic. 200 km/h can be safe one day and 100 km/h can be dangerous the next day in the same place. And what would the EU have to do with our speed limits? We're still a sovereign nation, you know... and perfectly capable of re-launching the speed limit debate ourselves every now and then

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 74): It feels like I'm driving a car and not an appliance.

That's very well said. If you agree with the philosophy that a car needs to be more than a means of transportation, you'll have a hard time getting used to a Toyota Corolla. A Nissan 350Z would be a different story altogether, but that's a baby sports car already and not intended for the mass market.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 75): . The A/C helps take the humidity out of the air on defrost, but back in the days when most cars didn't have A/C the defroster still worked. I have had several cars with no A/C or A/C from the 1960s when it did not work with the defroster.

If it doesn't take the humidity out of the air, the defroster is mediocre at best. Melting ice is only 1/2 of the job of a defroster, the other job is to keep the moisture off the inside of the windows. Not real smart in my opinion to buy a luxury car and not have an A/C option.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 81): Compared to country roads, our Autobahn network has a very neat safety record. Where it's necessary there are speed limits, but where it's unnecessary there aren't any so as not to interfere with the flow of traffic. 200 km/h can be safe one day and 100 km/h can be dangerous the next day in the same place. And what would the EU have to do with our speed limits? We're still a sovereign nation, you know... and perfectly capable of re-launching the speed limit debate ourselves every now and then

I am sure you are aware that the EU is pushing for speed limits on German Autobahns. Energy waste is one reason given, and I'm sure that the EU will start pushing the safety angle also. Speed isn't the problem it's the difference in speed between the slowest and fastest vehicle that is the problem. While in Germany a couple of co-workers told me that the Government recommended a top speed of 130 km/hr, which is really not much different than I-5 traffic in California.


http://www.boston.com/news/world/eur...ermans/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 73): In addition to last year's World car of the year, they can't keep them in the dealerships.

The recent 3 series was the most problematic of any BMW the techs could remember. Nothing fundementally serious like with the VWs, but IIRC about 1/3 had to have real work in the first year. Jenny was dead set on getting one until they made her workday such hell.

This is not to say they are not great cars, I love to drive them, but like most German cars, they have a rep for being well designed and engineered, but remian reletively high maintenance overall. Individual experience is not really relevant, we are talking about a dealership in one of the most affluent cities in the US, you cant walk thru a parking lot in Lexington Kentucky and not see a BMW or two in every row.

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 73): Well my family's two BMW's have been in only for scheduled maintenance, which is free 4years/50,000 miles for everything but tires. That is not the case for Lexus, Infiniti, Honda, Toyota or Nissan. Can you please explain your original statement to me again?

The Japanese cars just do not break down, and American non low end ones dont much either, and when either does, parts and repairs are not nearly as expensive as the European brands. This is why that BMW deal is just not that important. People just do not see the ROI. You can buy a Camry or Accord for 25K, drive it for 10 years, and still get enough back fro a downpayment on the next one.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 82): I am sure you are aware that the EU is pushing for speed limits on German Autobahns.

As per that link you provided, an EU commissioner voiced his fantasies of a general speed limit in Germany in an interview with the Sunday edition of Germany's worst p.o.s. (and of course, most popular) tabloid newspaper called "Bild". That's hardly "the EU pushing" for a limit, especially since he got a pretty good verbal hiding in return, with our Environment Minister calling the idea "a trivialization of the climate problem" (from your link). Your link also states that a general limit would reduce CO₂ emissions by about a whopping 0.6%, IIRC that's 0.6% of traffic - not total - emissions.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 82): Energy waste is one reason given

And that's the reason least likely to convince anyone.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 82): Speed isn't the problem it's the difference in speed between the slowest and fastest vehicle that is the problem.

True, that's why Germany's largest drivers association is very much in favour of dynamic speed limits and opposed to general limits. Second, only a fool would drive 200 km/h in conditions that would at best allow for 130 - but a fool won't be slowed down by a speed limit.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 82): While in Germany a couple of co-workers told me that the Government recommended a top speed of 130 km/hr, which is really not much different than I-5 traffic in California.

Also true, everyone doing more than that at the time of an accident (s)he's involved in will automatically bear part of the blame.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 66): Not that well, I recently saw one and thought, "Well that's rare!" I guess people over here prefer the Golf or Golf Plus for the additional space and flexibility. A "sedan" is far from the begin-all and end-all for cars in Europe, as you probably know.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 68): Very bad, I see more Jettas in the USA than in Germany (no joke!).

It's always been that way, but I thought with the new style the sales might pick up. I guess it's still the same for the Passat as well then, more combis then limos?

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 67): Don't forget that some 'German' cars in the North American market are actually made in the USA or Mexico.

And Brazil. But they still have the German engineered feeling to them ..  

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 67): The Jetta and Golf/Rabbit models are made in Mexico.

I'm not sure if the US models come from a different plant, but the Golf/Jetta Mk4's come from Brazil, the current Rabbit is from Europe, but I'm not sure about the Jetta Mk5.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 67): GM imported various Opel models from the late 1950's to the mid-1970's. They stopped due to serious problems with quality, rusting, increasing pollution controls.

GM also imported the Opel Omega and sold it as the Cadillac Catera in the '90s.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 68): The new Golf is expensive as hell! Actually I know nobody who bought one, all of my friends who drive a Golf V have it sponsored by Mum & Dad or stopped smoking to finance it.

The prices are pretty decent here, they start at about $20,000 for a basic model (a/c and a 5 cylinder engine). You can still get brand new Golf 4's for a lot less though (still have to wait another 3 months for mine to come in).

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 68): It had another name in between if I am not mistaken, I think it was called "Vento" for some time but I am not sure.

The Vento name was used for a Polo sedan back in the '90s. I'm not sure, but it could have also been used on the 2nd generation of Jetta.

Quoting AC773 (Reply 69): The interiors of American cars are especially appalling. Cheaper-feeling plastics than China uses, and panel gaps visible from space. And the build quality is atrocious! Hell, at least the French make their cars look nice before they all fall apart.

Agreed 100%.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 70): BS, total BS. Obviously you have never driven on the Kennedy in Chicago, or the 75 between Chicago and Detroit much less the Interstates, especially the ones in the western states like Montana which eliminated the speed limit for years, but reinstated it because of liability issues IIRC. Highway funds from the feds are tied to speed limit laws here also. Many interstates are 70- 80MPH limits and people usually exceed the limits here by 5-15 mph.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 70): Please get over yourself. I get passed like I am standing still every time I am on the Interstate the whole time and I drive about 75-80 because of a slight problem with the authorities a while back.

70-80mph? Exceeded by 5-15mph? That equals 95mph, I'll give you 100mph. That's the slow lane on the Autobahn, nationwide, not a couple of exceptions as your examples are. Driving at high rates of speeds, on a daily basis for hundreds of kilometers at a time demands more from a car then having a few roads where you can sometimes go fast for short distances. Big difference.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 70): You seem to know nothing of American cars, how we drive, or what we drive.

I know enough about American cars, how you drive and what you drive to make informative opinions without the need to try and take personal digs at others.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 70): TDIs seem to be about 25% of the VWs here.

Are they actually 2008 models or are they just the left over 2007 models?

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 70): People that live in the upper midwest like to omit the AC, and I remember being in a MB with no air in Wisconsin. You almost never need it.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'd put my money on that it was imported privately from Germany. I could be wrong, but that car is a rarity in North America.

MB/BMW (and the likes) in North America is not about needing or not needing options, it's about having as much luxury as possible.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 72): I-5 in California is about as fast as most of the German Freeways

I wouldn't go as far as saying that. I would say that the I-5 in California can be just as fast as some German Autobahns during busier times.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 72): Allowing cars to run over 100 mph on any freeway anywhere in the world is not a good idea.

Why is that? Safety? The Autobahn is statistically the safest road to drive on in the world. 85% of the accidents on the Autobahn happen at speeds UNDER 100km/h.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 72): I'm just wondering how long before the EU tells Germany to post speed limits on all Freeways!

The EU has been telling Germany this for years, for environmental reasons. I can't see it happening for a very long time though.

This post is getting long, will continue after a quick smoke ... 

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 40): look at this beauty ! My future car !

Oh yes, very sought after in Venezuela and Cuba where almost everyone but the altruistic political leaders can afford one.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 54): Here, it is really a safety factor when you do much driving at what Americans would consider incredibly stupid speeds.

They ARE incredibly stupid speeds.


Frankly, the (slightly nationalistic) attitude of some (mostly German) members here can get on one's nerves: "mine .. ours ... best .... not designed for you".

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 85): I'll give you 100mph. That's the slow lane on the Autobahn,

Honestly, I'd love to know the Autobahn you drive on...

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 82): Not real smart in my opinion to buy a luxury car and not have an A/C option.

You will not find a luxury car without A/C. The point I was trying to make is back when MBs were sold without A/C they were not luxury cars. Some where, but not all models. A 77 240D is not a luxury car. A 77 6.9 450 SEL is. Not all 240s had A/C, but all the 450s did.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 82): If it doesn't take the humidity out of the air, the defroster is mediocre at best

That is for sure. The defroster in my 66 Ford F-100 sucked. As did the defrost in my 64 Mercury Comet and 65 Dodge Polara. Both of those cars had A/C, but it did not work with the defroster.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 83): The Japanese cars just do not break down

Japanese cars break down.... trust me. I have fixed plenty. Some are better than others. Every dealer has a service department for a reason. Look around in the shop and you will see bigger jobs than just oil changes and break pads. Those technicians are ASE masters for a reason. If they only did routine maintainence they would just hire the same guys who work at Jiffy Lube.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 85): Cadillac Catera in the '90s.

That was a huge dud in the sales department.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 85): MB/BMW (and the likes) in North America is not about needing or not needing options, it's about having as much luxury as possible

Some of the old models are far from luxury, compared to Cadillacs and Lincolns of their day. Today people think of all MBs and BMWs as luxury cars. They did not used to be that way. Think of the BMW 2002 and the Mercedes 240D or 220.

[Edited 2007-05-01 21:07:51]

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 85): The Vento name was used for a Polo sedan back in the '90s. I'm not sure, but it could have also been used on the 2nd generation of Jetta.

My mistake, the Polo sedan in the '90s had the Polo name....

Quoting Aloges (Reply 81): The Vento was sort of the same generation as the Golf Mk III and its interior looked just as terrible.

Thanks for pointing the error of my ways Aloges ....  

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 82): While in Germany a couple of co-workers told me that the Government recommended a top speed of 130 km/hr, which is really not much different than I-5 traffic in California.

Here's the difference, 130km/h is the recommended speed, which is not much different then many freeways in the US (albeit a far cry from anything in Canada), but it is just that, recommended. In reality, under ideal conditions, very few people drive that speed. And as Aloges pointed, out, if you are involved in an accident above that speed, you'll be more liable then at speeds under.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 86): They ARE incredibly stupid speeds.

Why do you think that?

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 86): Frankly, the (slightly nationalistic) attitude of some (mostly German) members here can get on one's nerves: "mine .. ours ... best .... not designed for you".

As those of members of other countries, or those who prefer A over B, etc.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 88): That is for sure. The defroster in my 66 Ford F-100 sucked. As did the defrost in my 64 Mercury Comet and 65 Dodge Polara. Both of those cars had A/C, but it did not work with the defroster.

Many Japanese Cars force the user to manually turn on the AC. American Car companies figured out that Americans aren't smart enough to turn on the AC when its Freezing out so the defrost setting also turns on the AC automatically without driver consent. Back in 64 or 65 maybe American cars worked that way also. I have never owned a car that old so I don't know.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 88): That was a huge dud in the sales department.

That it was. I still snicker everytime I see one. Don't know why, I just do .....  

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 88): Some of the old models are far from luxury, compared to Cadillacs and Lincolns of their day. Today people think of all MBs and BMWs as luxury cars. They did not used to be that way. Think of the BMW 2002 and the Mercedes 240D or 220.

I'm trying to keep my thoughts on this side of the '80s ....  

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 86): Frankly, the (slightly nationalistic) attitude of some (mostly German) members here can get on one's nerves: "mine .. ours ... best .... not designed for you".

Thank you voice of reason.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 85): Are they actually 2008 models or are they just the left over 2007 models?

No, we were looking at one in 2004. I was upset at the complete lack of MB diesels and checked out the VWs. There are two VW Passat diesels on our block alone.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 85): I know enough about American cars, how you drive and what you drive to make informative opinions without the need to try and take personal digs at others.

Not a dig, just an observation based on posts that bear no resemblance of reality.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 85): Driving at high rates of speeds, on a daily basis for hundreds of kilometers at a time demands more from a car then having a few roads where you can sometimes go fast for short distances. Big difference.

Few roads? Are you completely ignorant of the US Interstate Highway system? With over 42,000 miles of Interstate Highways, only 16,000 interchanges - less than one for every two miles of road (and in some rural areas, there are dozens of miles between interchanges). We drive like bats out of hell here.

While the Autobahn is impressive, the US is THOUSANDS of miles across and cities are spread out hundreds of miles apart and millions of vehicles fill the interstates every day to go to work or conduct business in another city.

People have no issue with living 60-80 miles out in the boondocks and hoping on an interstate every day to go to work. People here in Lexington Kentucky work in Cincinnati and Louisville and vice versa. Both trips are about 75 miles. The interstates led to Urban sprawl and the suburbanization of America, land of the automobile.

Its like you are from another planet, seriously.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 72): I can not decide if you are a troll or totally uninformed. Your knowledge of America, American Cars, and Japanese Cars is non existant.

Um, I am American. I have lived here for 4 years now. I am extremely informed. Here is an example. In January I flew to LA and got a nice American Nissan Altima rental car to drive to Reno. At 85mph with two adults two kids and not really that much luggage the car bordered on the unsafe side. Why? That car has totally uncontrolled suspension movements. It was almost like there were no shocks,just springs. A moderate size bump would send it for at least 3 or 4 cycles of up and down movement. The suspension would travel right down and slam into the bump stops and go right back up to the upper reaches of its travel. Very disconcerting. On semi fast sweepers with just a small bump the front and the rear would react in wildly different manners. And the car would fell like it is rotating for lack of a better word. Other than that it drove fine.

I just got off the Autobahn after a 150 mile trip with the wife and two kids. Schwelm to Wiesbaden. The A3 is probably the fastest autobahn in Germany and it was nose to tail never under 100mph almost the whole way. There is NOWHERE in America that could even come close to how the driving is here.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 93): There is NOWHERE in America that could even come close to how the driving is here.

Yes there is, you just dont know where.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 94): Yes there is, you just dont know where.

So tell me smart boy.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 92): Not a dig, just an observation based on posts that bear no resemblance of reality.

Please, do enlighten me as to the where abouts of these posts.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 92): Few roads? Are you completely ignorant of the US Interstate Highway system? With over 42,000 miles of Interstate Highways, only 16,000 interchanges - less than one for every two miles of road (and in some rural areas, there are dozens of miles between interchanges). We drive like bats out of hell here.

Doesn't change the fact that the driving styles in the US and Germany are different. You could have a freeway to the moon and back for all I care. The US and German freeway systems are built differently and thus driven differently.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 92): People have no issue with living 60-80 miles out in the boondocks and hoping on an interstate every day to go to work. People here in Lexington Kentucky work in Cincinnati and Louisville and vice versa. Both trips are about 75 miles. The interstates led to Urban sprawl and the suburbanization of America, land of the automobile.

And this statement has a point?

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 92): Its like you are from another planet, seriously.

As are your one sided posts. Again, a personal attack on your behalf. Try doing something more constructive like forming a statement that is not based on opinions but actual facts.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 95): So tell me smart boy.

I am sure in all of your 4 years you have had plenty of time to explore all 50 states and figured that out. You are extreeemly informed.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 96): Again, a personal attack on your behalf.

Again, not a personal attack, simply an observation.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 96): And this statement has a point?

Yes it does, one you cannot accept.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 97): I am sure in all of your 4 years you have had plenty of time to explore all 50 states and figured that out. You are extreeemly informed.

My 4 years of what? Living in Germany? or my 37 years of living the USA in which there are only a handful of states that I have not driven in.

I have a question for you.
Why are always such a smartass?

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 96): Doesn't change the fact that the driving styles in the US and Germany are different. You could have a freeway to the moon and back for all I care. The US and German freeway systems are built differently and thus driven differently.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 93): There is NOWHERE in America that could even come close to how the driving is here.

Having driven in both Germany and the US, I see the following differences:
1. Cars sold in Europe are tuned for higher speeds, even American cars sold over there. Both GM (Opel) and Ford have very distinct products across the pond designed for a different market where folks can drive fast but have expensive gas. Thus, european cars tend to be smaller but have a tauter suspension.
2. Cars sold in the US have to comply with different market demands and safety standards. The US VW GTI is slightly higher and the suspension more compliant than the Euro version according to VW Vortex website. US shoppers value comfort more than outright performance for the most part, and because gas is still cheap, what is considered a family car in Europe (a Golf or Mondeo) is too small here for families (our Honda Accord is significantly bigger than the Euro Accord, sold here as an Acura).
3. The Autobahn was designed for high speed driving AND is kept in conditions that allow that high speed driving. The roads are fastidiously maintained, whereas here in LA the freeways have so many bumps and cracks in some parts doing more than 70MPH feels dangerous.

Point is, two different markets, two different road systems, sometimes even two different types of cars. I love driving, so no matter where I am, I'll look for an excuse to drive as fast as the conditions (and the law) allow!

Cheers!

Charles

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 89): Thanks for pointing the error of my ways Aloges ....

I did...?    Well, wonders never cease!  

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 88): Some of the old models are far from luxury, compared to Cadillacs and Lincolns of their day. Today people think of all MBs and BMWs as luxury cars. They did not used to be that way. Think of the BMW 2002 and the Mercedes 240D or 220.

In Germany today (and for as long as I can remember) I would guess that at least 75% of taxis are MBs, currently mostly the E-class.

Just for info, the top 10 selling car brands in Switzerland based on vehicles sold for the year 2006:

1. Volkswagen
2. Toyota
3. Opel
4. Renault
5. Audi
6. BMW
7. Mercedes-Benz
8. Peugeot
9. Ford
10. Citroen

[Edited 2007-05-02 04:03:41]

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 90): Back in 64 or 65 maybe American cars worked that way also. I have never owned a car that old so I don't know.

I never thought to try that. I will have to give it a try one day on an old car. Of course when driving these cars now people rarely take them out in the winter so it isn't much of an issue anymore.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 91): I'm trying to keep my thoughts on this side of the '80s ....

You have to love the 80s MBs, especially the 1981 on up 126 Chassis cars. My favorite is the 1986 300SDL.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 99): whereas here in LA the freeways have so many bumps and cracks in some parts doing more than 70MPH feels dangerous

If you ever make it to Detroit I will show you some roads that make yours look new.   

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 96): Doesn't change the fact that the driving styles in the US and Germany are different

Not only that, but the way people drive in different US cities and towns is different.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 85): The EU has been telling Germany this for years, for environmental reasons. I can't see it happening for a very long time though.

The EU had better not insist on posting speed limits on the Germans. World War III might be the result.

Germans are by nature a pretty disciplined bunch. You don't see much in terms of jaywalking and other everyday misbehaviour in Germany, compared to, say, the US or even France. The Autobahn is the Germans' only way of venting all their pent-up need for a little mayhem.

If you take that away, all that need will just pile up, getting worse and worse, until the pressure is released by an invasion of France or Russia, which will be very bad for the EU economy.

 

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 22): When I drive every day on the autobahn I never drive under 100mph and EVERYDAY (work day) I drive over 120mph. Howmany Americans can say that?

People in American still drive fast. I will drive over 100mph just about every 2 days. When the highways are not filled up it is easy to hit speeds over 100 and even get up to 130-140mph. Of course if a police officer saw me doing this I could be arrested unlike in Germany. But one of the reasons I can drive fast is because I have a fast powerful well made German car. But even when I do follow the speed limit people pass me all the time or when I am doing 100mph there is usually some other people doing the same thing. Once on the Florida Turnpike there were about four American SUVs in front of me all doing over 95mph it was crazy I would never take a Ford Explorer over 95mph.
So I agree that most German cars are engineered better for higher speeds but people in America still like to drive fast they just cant do it legally.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 97): Yes it does, one you cannot accept.

Please, do inform me. I'm still waiting for a reply to a few of your other statements in another thread when I asked you to explain your reasoning or point.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 99): Having driven in both Germany and the US, I see the following differences: 1. Cars sold in Europe are tuned for higher speeds, even American cars sold over there. Both GM (Opel) and Ford have very distinct products across the pond designed for a different market where folks can drive fast but have expensive gas. Thus, european cars tend to be smaller but have a tauter suspension. 2. Cars sold in the US have to comply with different market demands and safety standards. The US VW GTI is slightly higher and the suspension more compliant than the Euro version according to VW Vortex website. US shoppers value comfort more than outright performance for the most part, and because gas is still cheap, what is considered a family car in Europe (a Golf or Mondeo) is too small here for families (our Honda Accord is significantly bigger than the Euro Accord, sold here as an Acura). 3. The Autobahn was designed for high speed driving AND is kept in conditions that allow that high speed driving. The roads are fastidiously maintained, whereas here in LA the freeways have so many bumps and cracks in some parts doing more than 70MPH feels dangerous. Point is, two different markets, two different road systems, sometimes even two different types of cars. I love driving, so no matter where I am, I'll look for an excuse to drive as fast as the conditions (and the law) allow!

Exactly! 2 different markets and the cars are designed to fit those markets.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 100): I did...? Well, wonders never cease!

Oh, stop acting like it was the first time ....   

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 102): My favorite is the 1986 300SDL.

Forgive me while I drool ....  

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 102): Not only that, but the way people drive in different US cities and towns is different.

I'll agree to that as well, even around here people from different regions have their own driving style.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 103): The EU had better not insist on posting speed limits on the Germans. World War III might be the result. Germans are by nature a pretty disciplined bunch. You don't see much in terms of jaywalking and other everyday misbehaviour in Germany, compared to, say, the US or even France. The Autobahn is the Germans' only way of venting all their pent-up need for a little mayhem.

As much as I'd hate to say it, it could happen sometime, not soon, but sometime. One of the biggest reasons (other then national pride) to keep the speedlimit away is to let traffic flow more freely. The amount of traffic driving across Germany's Autobahn system on a daily basis is unreal, not only do you have some 54 million cars belonging to Germans, but all the traffic transiting through from other countries.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 104): So I agree that most German cars are engineered better for higher speeds but people in America still like to drive fast they just cant do it legally.

Bingo!

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 13): man look at the M6 it´s the best car I´ve ever seen !

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 37): Man that�s what I love in Germany , when I�ve got my driver's license I�ll go straight to the BMW ""shop" (how do you call it ??) and buy a good M6

Konstantin, how could make assumptions about the overall quality of a car when have not even driven a single car to date?

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 67): The Jetta and Golf/Rabbit models are made in Mexico. Some VW cars here may use parts from Brazil and elsewhere.

The VW dealer in town said the Beetle is made in Mexico, and the Golf (Rabbit) in Brazil. The Passat and Touareg are German.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 98): My 4 years of what? Living in Germany? or my 37 years of living the USA in which there are only a handful of states that I have not driven in.

OK, that explains it, first I thought you were German, than I thought you had immigrated and lived in America for four years. Sometimes those country flags fool me. No offense, but you sound American, most of the German Engineers I work with are not so strong/vocal on their opinions, so when they say something there is some thought behind it, not just, "All Japanese cars suck because I overloaded a Altima rental Car and it sucked to me", type of comments. You do have more of an American style --- or maybe this is the difference between engineers and the rest of the world.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 6): Maybach

Yeah Maybach is around, just not too much because of cost.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 10): Wow not really good feedback about the German cars ... wouldn´t have thought

Well I guess now you know the truth.  

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 3): the name makes 10k ... but a BMW is far better than a GM or any american car ...

I'd take it easy with that statement because a good Japanese car beats both on overall cost and reliability.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 20): Germany always brag saying that all over the world that the People admire Germany for his cars

German cars are beautifully styled and drive the best out of all of them. Just in the US it comes with a cost and questionable reliability

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 94): Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 93):There is NOWHERE in America that could even come close to how the driving is here.Yes there is, you just dont know where.

Rlwynn has somewhat of a point though. I watched a documentary on the Autobahns and the meticulousness and constant maintenance along with strict, both hands on the wheel, laws make it a lot more different.

Back to the OP,
I am from Southern California, and more specifically the Orange County area, so take my word that there are A LOT of German cars here. My girlfriend's father drives an Audi A8 and it is an awesome car. Southern Californians love to drive fast (of course when there is no traffic), which makes German cars popular over here. But like other posters were saying, they are still expensive and are expensive to maintain (minus VW). There used to be a joke that someone would have to buy 2 BMWs, one to drive and one to keep in the shop. A few problems ruined Audi in the US during the late 80s, and only in the last 10 years have they made a comeback. Mercedes as well lost out in quality when they joined with Chrysler, and even the data can support this.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 109): Yeah Maybach is around, just not too much because of cost.

I got to drive one of those at the Mercedes-Benz Club of America national convention (known as Star Fest) in 2004. What a great car. I doubt I will ever own one, but it was still cool. I was able to get on it a bit on some rural roads near Mansfield, Ohio.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 90): Many Japanese Cars force the user to manually turn on the AC.

My Suzuki requires me to do this.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 110): Yeah Maybach

Is this a division of Chrysler?

Overall, I would buy a VW anyday over a BMW. The BMW M series is the only BMW I would buy.

Hunter

LHStarAlliance:
I know I am coming in late in to this thread. As you can see above, German cars are widely available here in the United States. Personally I don't care for any of the high-end German brands but I do like the diesel powered German cars and wish more were imported here to the states.
Germans make great small diesel powered cars. The only ones I've owned were the 1980 VW Dasher diesel station wagon and 1981 VW Rabbit diesel 5 door hatch.
They both achieved excellent mileage.
50+ miles per gallon in some cases.
High-end German cars are too much of a status symbol out here and many people buy Mercedes to show off. Little do they know is that Mercedes also makes cheap non-luxury cars and industrial trucks that are not sold here in the USA.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 107): The VW dealer in town said the Beetle is made in Mexico, and the Golf (Rabbit) in Brazil. The Passat and Touareg are German.

No, you're partly wrong (Everything is explained in my post, #69). The Golfs/Rabbits/GTIs destined for the North/South American market were manufactured in Brazil, but that factory closed last year, and now every car within that model range is made in Wolfsburg.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 111): Is this a division of Chrysler?

Nope, but a division of Mercedes Car Group which is a division of DaimlerChrysler. So if that disaster of a merger is broken up again, Maybach will remain with a possible revived Daimler-Benz AG.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 112): Germans make great small diesel powered cars.

Quite, and they've come a long way since the days of your 1980s cars. I don't think you could get on in California so it'll be hard for you to try them out, but the driving pleasure has evolved very far since mostly the 90s. My family had a 1994 Passat TDI until 2002 and then a 2002 one, the difference between those two was staggering already. Fuel economy got somewhat worse though, which is due to the A/C that the old one didn't have and, shall we say, the temptation of revving that sweet engine higher up than necessary.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 112): Mercedes also makes cheap non-luxury cars

Do you mean the Smart, A-class and B-class? They aren't really cheap, but so is no German car these days. They are however non-luxury.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 112): industrial trucks

The Dodge sprinter is a direct copy of the MB Sprinter, however that's a light truck at best and probably sold as a Dodge so as not to harm MB's image.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 114): however that's a light truck at best and probably sold as a Dodge so as not to harm MB's image.

Key word, "image".
Mercedes is very clever to give Mercedes buyers in the USA a strictly luxury brand identity.

My old Rabbit had an air conditioner and you noticed the loss in power when you turned it on. I didn't mind the rattle and gutless performance of those cars.
The new generation TDIs were sold here in California briefly.

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 44): Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 9): Not true, and BMW is inferior to many Japanese cars Would you like to back this comment with some actual facts or experiences? If not, your comment means nothing.

Consumer Reports has consistently rated German cars less reliable that Japanese-for years. Recently, the American cars have been rating fewer problems as well.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 116): Consumer Reports has consistently rated German cars less reliable that Japanese-for years.

That must be because you lot don't know how to handle proper technology!     

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 116): Consumer Reports has consistently rated German cars less reliable that Japanese-for years. Recently, the American cars have been rating fewer problems as well.

I don't have any links at the moment but DeltaDC9 has a point. Of the older BMW/Mercedes/Audi drivers, they are usually there own mechanic, have a good friend that owns a shop and/or have a brand new car as there everyday driver. Japanese cars are certainly much more reliable than the German cars with the only exception being the small diesel engines. Most older American cars are used as everyday drivers and require little maintenance. The expensive German brands are great if you only plan on leasing them and trading it in within three years. That way you are always within warranty and before problems start to persist.
I certainly would not want to have the responsibility of owning/maintaining a 10-15 year old 7-series or S-class.

It really depends on what part of the country you live in, but German cars are definitely very popular on the west coast. I see tons of BMWs, VWs, and Audi's here in Seattle. Merecedes are less popular.

Overall, I think Japanese cars are most popular, followed by America, and then German. But you see differences depending on where you go. It seems that people in the South prefer to drive Cadillacs/Lincolns, while those on the coasts looking in a similar price range might be more inclined towards BMW/Audi/Mercedes. I think regional attitudes predominate here.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 119):

I think Japanese cars are so bought because of the price , I think most Japanese car drivers would love to have a German car but it´s too expensive ...

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 119): It really depends on what part of the country you live in, but German cars are definitely very popular on the west coast. I see tons of BMWs, VWs, and Audi's here in Seattle.

Same thing here in the San Francisco Bay Area.  

Also, the mid-west has great taste in cars and stick to buying American. I can remember when autoworkers and steel plant workers were sabotaging import cars back in the early 1980s.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 120): I think most Japanese car drivers would love to have a German car but it´s too expensive ...

I have an aunt that has a ton of money. She finally dumped her Mercedes E320 for a Toyota Avalon. She was sick in tired of being stranded and high repair cost.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 120): I think Japanese cars are so bought because of the price , I think most Japanese car drivers would love to have a German car but it´s too expensive ...

Doubt it. Japanese car owners are fanatics. Honda owners are the worst. Honda owners worship their cars, and believe that all Hondas last 1,000,000 miles without any problems and perfom better than all other cars. I have never seen anything like it. check out some of the old threads on the "Honda Jet", the Honda owners are pretty sure Boeing and Airbus days are numbered.
  

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 116): Consumer Reports has consistently rated German cars less reliable that Japanese-for years. Recently, the American cars have been rating fewer problems as well.

Those consumer reports have some flaws, though. Sometimes they compare Mexican made VW's with Japanese import cars (no offense to Mexicans here), or they only cover a certain time span, and on top of this they won't tell you what kind of problems customers faced. Is it that the memory function of yor seat quits working or is it a defect oil pump?

Plus, if you look at those numbers closely, then the gap is not that big really. I remember a ranking which ranked a Toyota first having some 36 problems less than the Alfa (?) on the last place. On 1,000 cars that is!
Now if I like the look and feel of the Alfa better I should nonetheless buy the Toyota, because there's a 3% higher chance that I have to drive my car to a shop to replace whatever kind of part within whatever kind of time frame?

sorry, but I would still opt for the Alfa.

That said, Toyota and/or Lexus cars have some quality issues now since they were growing too fast.

Japanese cars are the most reliable cars in the world. Here in Germany included. They are selling more and more here. The problem here is the image and that performance loving drivers wont buy them. There are a few excptions. The 177hp D-CAT Diesel Toyota Avensis and the Corolla with the same motor really drive well. The Mazada 6 is popular but suffers the same image problem. The Honda diesels are powerful.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 112): Germans make great small diesel powered cars.

What about
Mercedes S-class
Mercedes E- Class
Mercedes M-Class
Mercedes G-Class

Every Jeep

Chrysler 300
Chrysler Caravan

Audi A8
Audi A6
Audi Q Series

BMW 7 Series
BMW 5 Seies
BMW X Seires

VW Passat
VW Phaeton
VW Touareg

Cadillac BLS

Saab 9-5

Opel Vectra
Opel Sigma


None of these cars with German Diesels are small.

[Edited 2007-05-02 20:37:31]

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 120): I think Japanese cars are so bought because of the price , I think most Japanese car drivers would love to have a German car but it�s too expensive ...

I don't know about prices in Germany but these days there is no such thing as a cheap Japanese car besides Nissan and Mazda.
Many Toyota and Honda models have a long waiting time before delivery is possible which is no longer the case for MB as they usually can be delivered out of surplus stock.
Another good indicator is resale value and on that front the Top Japanese cars have all the rest beat.
We sold an old Toyota Carina II 1.6 , which is a very basic low end model, on the Sunday car market in Wilrijk a couple of years ago and you couldn't believe the number off offers we had before we even reach our parking space .
Same went for all other Japanese cars and the car dealers told me that Japanese stuff is always the first to go and get the best price.

As for performance difference between US, German or Japanese cars it is pretty much a moot point, 99.9% of normal everyday drivers are not skillful enough to get even 90% of the car's abilities out off it and I don't mean flooring the gas pedal, every monkey can do that.

There are more than enough good Ami cars you can buy over here that are perfectly at home at high speeds on the German Autobahn, the perception that a German car is more equipped for it is simply wrong and has everything to do with wanting to believe than being fact.

Last thing to consider is this , most high end German cars are rear wheel driven and that is still harder to control on the edge of its performance than a front wheel driver, a fact that has cost more than one would be Shumacher autobahn driver its car and sometimes his life when they taught they would/could make that wide turn at 250Kmh.

BTW I drive an Audi these days because they have phenomenal diesels , their fit and finish is very good and most importantly, for me, it has fantastic seats.
If Lexus would make a decent diesel (like a 2.5 or 3.0) and put it in their GS or LS I would be the first to buy it and if there was also an American (Buick/cadillac) Diesel car I wouldn't dismiss those either.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 121): Also, the mid-west has great taste in cars and stick to buying American. I can remember when autoworkers and steel plant workers were sabotaging import cars back in the early 1980s.

Yeah, but that was back in a time when American cars were actually made in America and imports were actually imported.

These days, the patriotic decision is ironically to go with companies like Nissan, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, and Honda; all of whom have assembly plants in the US.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 114): The Dodge sprinter is a direct copy of the MB Sprinter, however that's a light truck at best and probably sold as a Dodge so as not to harm MB's image.

He was probably refering to trucks like the Actros rather than the Sprinter/Viano/etc.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 129): He was probably refering to trucks like the Actros rather than the Sprinter/Viano/etc.

Well I lived in BCN the last 2 years and the Actros was Actros there

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 127): There are more than enough good Ami cars you can buy over here that are perfectly at home at high speeds on the German Autobahn

Besides the Corvette, Viper or Chrysler 300 Which ones are you talking about?

Quoting AC773 (Reply 128): These days, the patriotic decision is ironically to go with companies like Nissan, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, and Honda; all of whom have assembly plants in the US.

Assembly can be quite a bit different than who owns the company, which sub contractors they use, who designs the car and where all the high value jobs are located. It's not an easy question to answer, so I say just buy what you want and let the government handle the overall economy. That being said, I still believe that General Motors probably does the most overall good for the US economy of all manufacures, followed by Ford. For some of the Japanese cars, the assembly process sometimes can be quite trivial, and I think I read an article somewhere that the Japanese are now considering moving much of that back to Japan.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 130): Well I lived in BCN the last 2 years and the Actros was Actros there

Of course, I'm sure the Actros is the same worldwide. What I meant with my post is that when Superfly said Mercedes made trucks he was most probably refering to full-size trucks like the Actros rather than the smaller 'delivery vans' like the Viano or Sprinter.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 127): and if there was also an American (Buick/cadillac) Diesel car I wouldn't dismiss those either.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 126): What about Mercedes S-class Mercedes E- Class Mercedes M-Class Mercedes G-Class Every Jeep Chrysler 300 Chrysler Caravan Audi A8 Audi A6 Audi Q Series BMW 7 Series BMW 5 Seies BMW X Seires VW Passat VW Phaeton VW Touareg Cadillac BLS Saab 9-5 Opel Vectra Opel Sigma None of these cars with German Diesels are small.

None of the above are availible here in the USA or at least in California as a diesel.      

Glad to see Cadillac using diesels again. The last time Cadillac went diesel, it was a huge failure do to the fact that they were gas engines converted to diesel.

I found one on the web that just so happend to be in Germany. Can someone translate?

Ein weiterer Skandal-Motor war der 1979 als Option angebotene 120PS starke Diesel-V8, welcher nicht der unsachgemässen Behandlung der Käufer (ohne Vorglühen den Motor starten) gewachsen war. Der Diesel, ebenfalls von Oldsmobile gebaut, wurde diversen Modifikationen unterzogen, um diesem Problem Herr zu werden, was ihm 1981 eine auf 105PS verringerte Leistung einbracht. Viele Händler gingen dazu über, den Motor auf für die Verwendung von Benzin umzubauen, weshalb er 1985 aus den Prospekten verschwand.


The convertible Eldorado option didn't come around until 1984 and the diesel died in 1985 for Cadillac. This would be a very rare car if this is in fact a diesel Eldorado convertible.
Run this on used cooking oil and then I could drive around Berkeley and fit in with all the other ecofreaks.   

Yesterday i took a nice drive down the A3 toward Frankfurt. This has to be the fastest autobahn here. When I took this picture I was going 160kph or 100 mph. Any faster with a 3 month old and a 3 year old in the car and my wife complains. I think if I got pulled over in some places in America going 100 with the kids in the car I would be charged with criminal child endagerment. But here as you can see I am in the slow lane. The cars in the fast lane blew by me at probably more than 130mph. No kidding here, drive 100mph on an autobahn this big feels really like driving 65mph in America.

There was some talk of closuer speeds in this thread. This is the A45 a 2 lane autobahn. I am following the C-Class wagon at more than 100mph while the trucks are doing 55mph. There is no room for escape if needed. Total concentration at all times. Except for when driving with one hand and taking photographs.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 136): Yesterday i took a nice drive down the A3 toward Frankfurt. This has to be the fastest autobahn here. When I took this picture I was going 160kph or 100 mph. Any faster with a 3 month old and a 3 year old in the car and my wife complains. I think if I got pulled over in some places in America going 100 with the kids in the car I would be charged with criminal child endagerment. But here as you can see I am in the slow lane. The cars in the fast lane blew by me at probably more than 130mph. No kidding here, drive 100mph on an autobahn this big feels really like driving 65mph in America.

I'm looking forward to my vist to Germany in July! I will be lapping the Nurburgring in a BMW, can't wait!

100mph
Check out how low the redline is. Skoda Octavia 1.9l tdi.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 135): Ein weiterer Skandal-Motor war der 1979 als Option angebotene 120PS starke Diesel-V8, welcher nicht der unsachgemässen Behandlung der Käufer (ohne Vorglühen den Motor starten) gewachsen war. Der Diesel, ebenfalls von Oldsmobile gebaut, wurde diversen Modifikationen unterzogen, um diesem Problem Herr zu werden, was ihm 1981 eine auf 105PS verringerte Leistung einbracht. Viele Händler gingen dazu über, den Motor auf für die Verwendung von Benzin umzubauen, weshalb er 1985 aus den Prospekten verschwand.

Another inferior engine was the optional '79 120 hp V8 diesel, which was not able to withstand the inappropriate usage by the customers (starting the engine without preheating it). The diesel engine built by Oldsmobile was subject of many modifications to overcome these problems which resulted in a reduced output of 105 hp. Many of the car dealers proceeded to convert the engine for the utilization of gasoline wherefore it disappeared from the brochures.

Marquis:
Thanks man.
I figured it was something along those lines. Here in California, our foolish emission laws prohibit swaping a gas engine for a diesel. In other states, you could change that awful 350 converted diesel with a true diesel, the 6.2 GMC diesel that was offered at that. time. Then you' have a solid diesel powered car.



You guys in Germany are really lucky to have so many choices of diesel powered cars in every class.

[Edited 2007-05-02 23:13:08]

Quoting Superfly (Reply 141): You guys in Germany are really lucky to have so many choices of diesel powered cars in every class.

Agreed. I wish my suzuki was diesel powered as the gas mileage sucks. The only diesel SUV are the Liberty and Grand Cherokee and select mercedes ones.

Hunter

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 131): Besides the Corvette, Viper or Chrysler 300 Which ones are you talking about?

You are taking only top range models here but you should compare average day cars IMHO.
So let's see basically almost all cars I rented in the US where as good as their German counterparts certainly if you compare on a quality/ price base.
The ones I still remember as being good cars and all tested extensively at some time at illegal speeds on some shitty Illinois roads:
-Chevrolet Impala (2000) my absolute favorite, did some 10000 miles in under 3 moths on them.
-Grand Am (1999)
-Pontiac sunfire (1998)
-Mustang convertible 6 cyl (1997+1998+1999+2000)
-Chrysler Concorde (2001)
-Buick Regal ( 2001)

Remember these where all Avis or Budget rental cars which are ,as a rule, nothing like new cars because of (ab)use by its customers.
The only really Peace of crap I got was a Chrysler Sebring back in 1997 which as I heard later was a car with a bad rep, a bit of a lemon.

We had some horrible experiences with a lot of Mercedes cars my GF owned in the last 5 years and saying that they are in any way better on the Autobahn than your average day French or Italian thin is laughable let alone the Japanese or American stuff.

I don't want to demean the German car as a whole but they are overpriced and over-hyped a lot of the time, I always get the impression that you buy a car that is maybe 5% better on certain points than a Japanese or American car but you pay 20% more for something you don't notice in every day use.
A big part of their attraction lies in the design, the audi's ,Porches and even Chris bangle's Beemers always seem to be on the leading edge of design and trends and as you know , people with money to spend also shop with their eyes.

Still wouldn't mind a nice M5 or Porsche 911 though   .

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 134): Here you go. A Caddy Diesel. On sale now.

Funny you say this, I heard about it too late (already bought my car then) but I was very impressed with it when I first saw it driving on the roads over here and what I heard of it they seem to be giving their owners a lot of satisfaction.
I would certainly check it out if I was in the market for some new transport now.

Also Chrysler has some diesel which you see running around a lot these days, together with the Cadillac it seems like the first time they seem to export something that is usable over here (diesel is by far the most popular choice in these class of cars over here).

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 142): Agreed. I wish my suzuki was diesel powered as the gas mileage sucks. The only diesel SUV are the Liberty and Grand Cherokee and select mercedes ones.

Thanks to the hugely powerful trucking industry in the US, which has fought the introduction of diesel fuel in the US with a higher cetane rating, we are unlikely to see a lot of passenger diesels like in Europe. US diesel has a cetane of around 40 or so, which is fine for slow-turning heavy truck engines. European diesel has a cetane rating of closer to 50, which is more ideal for smaller, higher speed engines.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 131): Besides the Corvette, Viper or Chrysler 300 Which ones are you talking about?

There are plenty Charger SRT8 Jeep SRT8 Ram SRT8, Cadillac has a few supercharged V8 sedans and coupes. Cobalt SS, Ford Mustang GT500 and ofcourse the second fastest production car is from the US the Saleen S7.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 135): Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 126): What about Mercedes S-class Mercedes E- Class Mercedes M-Class Mercedes G-Class Every Jeep Chrysler 300 Chrysler Caravan Audi A8 Audi A6 Audi Q Series BMW 7 Series BMW 5 Seies BMW X Seires VW Passat VW Phaeton VW Touareg Cadillac BLS Saab 9-5 Opel Vectra Opel Sigma None of these cars with German Diesels are small. None of the above are availible here in the USA or at least in California as a diesel.

The Mercedes E M and G are aviable in diesel in the US along with the Jeeps also the VW Touareg comes in diesel in the US and the Q7 will be availible in diesel soon too and dont forget about all those pickup trucks in the US which come in diesel too.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 145): The Mercedes E M and G are aviable in diesel in the US along with the Jeeps also the VW Touareg comes in diesel in the US and the Q7 will be availible in diesel soon too and dont forget about all those pickup trucks in the US which come in diesel too.

Almost every car offered in Europe has an availabe diesel engine. A trend we may start slowly seeing coming to North America?

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 143): -Mustang convertible 6 cyl (1997+1998+1999+2000)

Sorry but the Mustang is a rattling POS. Good for showing muscle but unacceptably unstable at high speeds (100+).

I'm talking about Hertz models driven mostly in Florida, 2004 and onwards.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 145): The Mercedes E M and G are aviable in diesel in the US along with the Jeeps

Jeeps, here come with the MB-sourced CRD engines, is that the same there or do they use indigenous diesels? The smaller Caddy BTS (IIRC not available in the US) has a Fiat-sourced diesel, btw.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 147): Jeeps, here come with the MB-sourced CRD engines, is that the same there or do they use indigenous diesels? The smaller Caddy BTS (IIRC not available in the US) has a Fiat-sourced diesel, btw.

are the jeeps build by Mercedes ??

Quoting Lhstaralliance (Reply 148): are the jeeps build by Mercedes ??

Jeeps are built by Jeep in Detroit, the 3.0 V6 CRD engine is made by MB in Marienfelde, Berlin.

Grand Cherokees for the euro market are also assembled in Graz, Austria.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 149): Jeeps are built by Jeep in Detroit, the 3.0 V6 CRD engine is made by MB in Marienfelde, Berlin.

Also the engines for the US Jeeps ??

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 150): Also the engines for the US Jeeps ??

Just the Diesels. But the Euro Wrangler has a VM Motori Diesel.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 131): Besides the Corvette, Viper or Chrysler 300 Which ones are you talking about?

I would hesitate to but a 300 up there, my mother has the 300C and I mean its quick and all, but at speed (over 150kph) it starts to get slightly interesting, not to bad however it is noticeable. As far as German cars being better then American or Japanese cars I am going to have to say with out a doubt they are better. There are many things that stand out.

First and foremost if you get a German car (VW and Audi exceptions) you will get RWD (or AWD). This is HUGH as it gives a competent driver more control when getting to the performance envelope of his/her car. This makes the manufacturing process a little bit more expensive. In alot of American and Japanese cars you get FWD which IMO really is a big set back. Sure you can get RWD in some of the higher performance cars, however you can get cars such as a Nissan Altima with around 250 hp with FWD... my roommate has one... and it needs RWD. Another thing, interior finish I find J cars are very plasticy, A cars are laid out like crap and for me a G car is laid out nicely with a decent interior finish. Now we get to performance, and IMO A or J cars do not come nowhere close to all around performance of a G designed car. For instance you can get a BMW 323 that is not very powerful, so you dont think sporty however when you get to the twisties the car excels. After haven driving many G cars (Audi A3 and A4, BMW 323CI, 330CI, 745Li and pax of M6, Porsche 996 C4S and not driving it hard but a 996 Turbo Ruf) I can truthfully say that weather you are on the bottom end (A3, 323CI) or the top end (M6 and Porsches) there is one common thing in the cars that they all share. Performance. Sure the A3 or 323Ci where slow however they can corner just as good of some of the higher end cars (well with exception to the 911s).

I may be very biased because well when I used to live in YVR and I worked at ZBB I used to get my car up passed 200kph most days because I would leave at off hours and there where no cars on the road. So I was able to understand what this high speed performance was all about. Driving 200kph and having a car that is rock solid, I see this as a safety factor more then anything else. Also another reason why I am biased is because most of our family friends or just my friends have these higher end cars and there for I have had the opportunity to be around all the Porsches and BMWs and Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari's (I am not a big fan of them myself haha) and most of the fathers or older brothers (males) seem to drive spirited even around town. There is nothing better then having a set of great breaks connected to your center pedal in case something arises.

Now some people may bring up the maintenance issue. Could it be that because G cars are able to be driven harder they tend to have more maintenance issues I do not know. All I know is that we have had problems with out A car (300C) and for the most part the G cars seem to hold up well. Now my current car is only a VW Jetta 1.8T and I am having some troubles with that... a fuel injector is plugged and I am getting it back today. Now if I did not do the maintenance on it myself, I might of said well this damn G car always breaks down. But after getting it flushed it works perfectly so once I pick it up today and put it in my car all should work. So this was not as serious as a problem as one could have assumed. I am sure if VW fixed my car I would need 4 new fuel injectors etc... I had a car before this too and that is when I started doing my own work on my cars for the fun of it and let me tell you maintenance coast went down quickly on something that seemed like an issue after some trouble shooting, it turned out to be small... like an Ignition coil or something of that sort... Just one quick part and you are on your way.

Another issue on maintenance. I enjoy working on my own car, I could take it in and pick it up and hand over the cash, but where is the fun in that. I like my VW because it is simple to work on (after you take all the covers off). It is fairly strait forward etc. Compared to my roommate's Jap cars which is a pain in the arse to work on. One of those cars that you have to take in. If I have a problem with my car I can call the dealership and speak with the service director and he helps me over the phone, and even once I went in to see him over a problem and he helped me in person... which I was kind of surprised at seeing how it is only a few years old, I figured he would want the business. Now trying to help my friend fix his same year Altima, I call the dealership and I get this "We suggest you take the car in" I was like yes thanks however ... explained my problem and the service director at Nissan figured out that I more or less knew what I was doing and said "look you seem doing be doing fine, if you are not going to come in keep up the good work, bye" and hung up. As far as I am concerned f*ck Nissan and I managed to fix the problem myself without their help.

Anyways this is getting long and I got to go pick up my fuel injector so that is going to be it from me for a little while.

Cheers Chris

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 152): I would hesitate to but a 300 up there, my mother has the 300C and I mean its quick and all, but at speed (over 150kph) it starts to get slightly interesting, not to bad however it is noticeable.

The 300c is a Luxury/Near Luxury car meant for older people who reached a more mature age by not doing stupid things like driving above 150kph. Believe it or not there are design trade-offs with respect to suspension, gearing, tires, aerodynamics etc. If a car is built for sensible people who drive sensible than the customer does not need to spend the extra money. Why buy tires rated for 150 mph if you never exceed 80 mph?

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 152): I may be very biased because well when I used to live in YVR and I worked at ZBB I used to get my car up passed 200kph most days because I would leave at off hours and there where no cars on the road.

Dude, seriously you need to slow down. The freeways aren't race tracks. You can pretty much go to jail almost anywhere in the world for that kind of speed. Here is what will happen to you in Canada if you continue to drive like that.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 153): Dude, seriously you need to slow down. The freeways aren't race tracks. You can pretty much go to jail almost anywhere in the world for that kind of speed. Here is what will happen to you in Canada if you continue to drive like that.

I do realize that, however the highway that I do travel fast on (excess of 200kph) is in the middle of farm land, and I know as a fact that their are no moose in that area. As far as freeway being a race track... I am never racing other traffic, I only go that fast when I am not passing anyone the fastest I pass someone (in Canada at least) is 150kph. I take it seriously if its raining out etc.. I do not drive over 130kph which is sensible. During night I do not push 130. Also I have other limits I put on myself regarding speed but it just so happens that when I traveled that stretch of freeway it worked out to have limited cars on it etc. It is strait and flat, a well built road in dry conditions, to me I see nothing wrong with that, having no one else in the car with me. I have been on the same stretch of freeway up to 290kph me driving and 315 with the owner of the car and under the right circumstances with the right well maintained car (with appropriate tyres) driving at that speed "can" be relatively safe. While 290 may have been a bit quicker then I am used to it was done in a relatively safe way. I am not one of those "punks" who like to pass on the right, cut people of and speed in front of you. When I am driving like above you will not see me, unless you are way behind me or in front of me, in which case I will slow down. I do respect your opinion however and acknowledge that I am increasing the risk by speeding, however playing the game of lowering the other risks certainly helps keep the total risk down.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 139): Skoda Octavia 1.9l tdi.

The 1.9l TDI was a great engine by VW, a friend had it in his Seat Cordoba some years ago, it was absolutely no problem to drive 220 kph with it.

Oh yes, some arsehole damaged our 206cc today in a hit-and-run accident while I was buying breakfast at Dunkin Donuts.    Anyway, that means that I can drive Audi A8 for a week at least.    

Patrick

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 153): The 300c is a Luxury/Near Luxury car meant for older people who reached a more mature age by not doing stupid things like driving above 150kph. Believe it or not there are design trade-offs with respect to suspension, gearing, tires, aerodynamics etc. If a car is built for sensible people who drive sensible than the customer does not need to spend the extra money. Why buy tires rated for 150 mph if you never exceed 80 mph?

Driving faster then 150km/h is not stupid, period! It is stupid if you are driving these speeds under less than ideal road/traffic/weather conditions, there is a difference.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 153): Here is what will happen to you in Canada if you continue to drive like that.

Hasn't happened to me yet.

Quoting AC773 (Reply 69): The interiors of American cars are especially appalling. Cheaper-feeling plastics than China uses, and panel gaps visible from space. And the build quality is atrocious! Hell, at least the French make their cars look nice before they all fall apart.

Maybe a few years ago. Ford and GM have have really improved their material and build quality. The only one lagging behind is Chrysler. Nobody seems impressed with their latest vehicles (Sebring, Nitro, Compass, etc). Japanese vehicles are not perfect either. I've noticed several new-style Honda Civics with misaligned trunk lids. I have also seen some Honda Elements with wide, inconsistent panel gaps. The new-style Toyota Camrys have been having some build quality issues as well.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 142): The only diesel SUV are the Liberty and Grand Cherokee and select mercedes ones.

And the Ford Excursion, but it's no longer produced. I think Ford is planning to make diesel-powered Expeditions and F-150s.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 153): who reached a more mature age by not doing stupid things like driving above 150kph

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 156): Driving faster then 150km/h is not stupid, period! It is stupid if you are driving these speeds under less than ideal road/traffic/weather conditions, there is a difference.

I definitely have to second that ACDC8. It can be perfectly save to travel at 250km/h on a uncongested freeway in perfect conditions (weather and road surface) and it can be dangerous to travel at 130km/h on a crowded freeway if a non focussed driver pulls over to your lane. To judge wheter its safe to drive 150km/h+ or not is what separates the clever drivers from the dumb ones. As my father once said: "The problem are not the fast drivers, but the ones who think slower than their car goes." He has a point there...

Quoting JJJ (Reply 147): Sorry but the Mustang is a rattling POS. Good for showing muscle but unacceptably unstable at high speeds (100+).

Never driven a Cobra I suspect.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 146): A trend we may start slowly seeing coming to North America?

Diesels have come and gone and now need to come again. I think the only MB available is the 320 and only in limited supply but no real good reason why. Seems to me they could import a lot more and sell them....

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 143): The only really Peace of crap I got was a Chrysler Sebring back in 1997 which as I heard later was a car with a bad rep, a bit of a lemon.

I rented a Sebring convertible in Palm Springs that was very nice when I got screwed yet again on getting a Mustang. It was OK, but seemed different than the other Chryler/Dodges somehow.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 123): Honda owners worship their cars, and believe that all Hondas last 1,000,000 miles without any problems and perfom better than all other cars. I have never seen anything like it.

Welcome to my world, my inlaws are just like that. We have a 2000 Trans Am and a 2001 Tahoe. They have been waiting 7 years to say I told you so, but nothing has happened to either while his Accura RL lost its power windows, constantly needs a new O2 sensor, and their Accord consistently gets less MPG than they expected.

I say nothing because I know it could easily be the other way around. This is how opinions are formed though, in a microcosm, with no real bearing on the overall big picture.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 112): Little do they know is that Mercedes also makes cheap non-luxury cars and industrial trucks that are not sold here in the USA.

MB trucks are sold here. I used to use one for my business. What a piece of crap compared to the GMC Topkick we replaced it with. I was surprised, it had just came off lease to Bristol Myers Squibb and they told there lessor to switch to GMC or forget about them as a customer, where we took the Topkick coming off that lease.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 108): OK, that explains it, first I thought you were German

I was confused too.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 85): Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 70): You seem to know nothing of American cars, how we drive, or what we drive. I know enough about American cars, how you drive and what you drive to make informative opinions without the need to try and take personal digs at others.

How is that statement a dig, I still want to know. It is a simple statement of opinion.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 98): Why are always such a smartass?

Disagreeing with someone, and not liking their aggressive tone is not being a smart ass. I simply stop caring about how my post come off when I get posts like yours.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 159): Never driven a Cobra I suspect.

Obviously it was the base model.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 160): Obviously it was the base model.

Yes, just ribbin ya.

I had a V6 Mustang as a loaner when they were replacing my Cobra engine. I swear you could not tell it was the same model.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 161): replacing my Cobra engine.

Why did they have to replace the engine?? I have had the opportunity to drive in a SVT Cobra (as pax) and I would say it is one of the faster cars I have ever been in. However it seemed that it was not much of a balanced "sports car" more or less a "muscle car" which I understand this was the goal, but IMO it would have been nice if they made its other handling characteristics a bit better. Overall though the thing was damn fast!

German cars are way better than American Cars, that is why you can see tons of them on California, even Rabbits (Golfs) in base config and with the horrible americanized suspension, are way batter than the average 20 k American crap.
Now VW is bringing the R32 to the USA, with almost all the German Specs untouched...I feel bad for those cars that are really great driving cars for being used in the land of the SUV and MOM &POP minivan at 65 mph...yuck...

Heck even the Golf GTI with the DSG in the twisties will spank a lot of "sport" american and japanesse cars. Here in Mexico we sponsor races at local race tracks and German cars OWN the track in all categories, heck we even saw a Clio Sport 2.0 and a Peugeot GTI spank some serious american and japanesse metal....

American love floating suspensions, boat like steering wheel and have candy ass, if they feel bumps on the road they complain... even german cars sold in the USA have softened suspensions. YUCK

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 159): How is that statement a dig, I still want to know. It is a simple statement of opinion.

You assuming that I (or anyone for that matter) know nothing about American cars, etc. simply because I (or we) have different views then yours makes it a bit more htne a simple statement of opinion. Fact is, I know a hell of alot about American cars and how they are drivien, and these are the reasons how I form my view towards them. Just because I disagree with your views, which I am sure you very valid reasons for, does not mean that I (or anyone else) does not know what I (we) are talking about. Sometimes I will get my facts/names/numbers mixed up, it happens, but if I make a mistake, I admit it.

Anyway, back to the discussion ....

Quoting JJJ (Reply 160): Obviously it was the base model.

Don't think the Cobra really has a base model. The Cobra is a top of the line Mustang, sort of an AMG for Ford, if you will. They are fast, handle much better then the base V6 or GT Mustangs, cost a premimum and are made in limited numbers. Just a sidenote, many Cobra owners don't like their cars being called Mustangs ....  

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 161): I had a V6 Mustang as a loaner when they were replacing my Cobra engine. I swear you could not tell it was the same model

Now, that's a downgrade, ouch! Personally, I would have been in tears.

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 162): Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 161): replacing my Cobra engine. Why did they have to replace the engine??

I'd like to know this aswell, also what year was the Cobra?

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 162): I would say it is one of the faster cars I have ever been in. However it seemed that it was not much of a balanced "sports car" more or less a "muscle car" which I understand this was the goal

Agreed, it's a very fast car, but it still lacks the refinement of other sports cars such as Porsche or even BMW and Mercedes. And to be perfectly honest, as much as I love MB, when I had a SL55 for a few weeks in Germany, I was very happy to come back to Canada and drive my Mustang GT.

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 163): American love floating suspensions, boat like steering wheel

Which also brings a safety issue when it comes to handling.

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 163): American love floating suspensions, boat like steering wheel and have candy ass, if they feel bumps on the road they complain... even german cars sold in the USA have softened suspensions. YUCK

What in the hell are you talking about?

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 162): Why did they have to replace the engine?? I have had the opportunity to drive in a SVT Cobra (as pax) and I would say it is one of the faster cars I have ever been in. However it seemed that it was not much of a balanced "sports car" more or less a "muscle car" which I understand this was the goal, but IMO it would have been nice if they made its other handling characteristics a bit better. Overall though the thing was damn fast!

96 Cobra that we sold in 2002 to buy our Trans Am.

Nightmare situation, wife took it to the dealer for an oil change, the dealer neglected to remove the old filter o-ring, and installed the new filter on top of it. It lost all its oil halfway home and my wfe called crying.

Took them 3 months to get a new block from Ferrari in Italy, manufacture a new engine, and get it all back together as they had sold all the spare Cobra engines for that year already.

It did not handle as well as our 2000 Trans Am due to its higher center of gravity I assume, but man they are fun to drive, the dual overhead cams just purred even at 130+ which we tried more than once.

You are correct though about it being a muscle car at heart, most cars like this have out of the hole performance in mind and sacrifice a bit on the top end due to the low gear ratio in the rear end.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 165): Took them 3 months to get a new block from Ferrari in Italy

The block didn't come from Ferrari, the block was produced by Teksid, which is a company the builds engine blocks for various car manufactureres, Ferrari being one of them.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 166): The block didn't come from Ferrari, the block was produced by Teksid, which is a company the builds engine blocks for various car manufactureres, Ferrari being one of them.

Sorry, should have said sourcer, our problem was that they would not give Fords small order priority over a job for Ferarri. In the end they actually were faster than the head manufacturer in Canada for some reason, but the biggest delay was waiting for the guys themselves since the engine had to be assembled by one 2 man team of 12 teams available at SVT. The car only had 19,000 miles on it so we insisted on an all new engine reusing nothing.

It was worth it, too bad we could not justify hanging on to it.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 167):

Cobra's have a notorious reputation for long service times, which is a shame. But I guess that's the price you pay for having premium product. Personally, I'd take a 2001-2004 Mach 1 over a Cobra. Lags a bit in the performance but the shaker hood makes up for it.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 22): German cars are made for Germany. We drive fast here. A shit American car would never handel the typical German driver. Not being mean, just the truth. When I drive every day on the autobahn I never drive under 100mph and EVERYDAY (work day) I drive over 120mph. Howmany Americans can say that?

So don't buy a shit American car; buy a good one, of which there are plenty.

I love the German car driving experience, always have. Drove two Audis an aggregate of 300k miles, might still be driving my '93 100S but for it giving its life that I might live.

But the BMW my wife had to have threatened to eat us out of house and home; the engine was strong and inspiring, and it handled well, but everything else on it- most notably electrics, but everything- was under-engineered an unreliable, and dealer service was rapaciously expensive. It was sold as a defensive measure.

We do have a Jetta 1.8T, "German engineered," built in Puebla, Mexico, where they apparently build them well, as it has been very tight and reliable.

And there are plenty of American cars, I'd cite the entire Cadillac line, which are both well-suited to extended high-speed touring, and are considerably better assembled than BMW or Mercedes. I know this does not match the perception, but it is the reality. My Caddy, at 74,000 miles, is a tight and fast tourer, well-suited to low-flight in the 100+ mph range (though these days, I rely upon Continental IO550 power for high-speed travel).

Well the main point is that European's prefer comfort and the nice looks, in America its all about the size and speed. If you look at the VW's in the US, it are mostly moddified cars.. for example , the VW golf V is often delivered with a wider body kit, to make it look bigger. Also the Suspenssion is bigger....

Note: i all got this from Top Gear