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Topic: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Canuckpaxguy
Posted 2007-07-05 02:05:55 and read 2120 times.

From Yahoo news - http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/new...slug=ap-ioc-2014&prov=ap&type=lgns

GUATEMALA CITY (AP) -- Russia's Black Sea resort of Sochi was awarded the 2014 Olympics on Wednesday, rewarding President Vladimir Putin and taking the Winter Games to his country for the first time.

Sochi defeated the South Korean city of Pyeongchang 51-47 in the final round of voting by the International Olympic Committee.


Very cool! Who's coming with me?

G

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: N1120A
Posted 2007-07-05 02:12:22 and read 2111 times.

Quite frankly, this is a joke. Until Russia stops its bullying of former Soviet states and the EU with Gazprom and Rosneft and ends its horrific record of corruption, the IOC should not recognize them in this way.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Canuckpaxguy
Posted 2007-07-05 02:18:57 and read 2101 times.

Alireza, have a drink and relax.
Russia is hardly the only country in the world plagued with corruption. We'd both be pretty hypocritical if we said either of our countries weren't. The Olympics is about the world coming together. I like it when they choose places most people have never heard of.

...so are you coming with me or not?

Congratulations Russia!

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: N1120A
Posted 2007-07-05 02:27:12 and read 2089 times.

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 2):
I like it when they choose places most people have never heard of.

I like that too. That is one of the things that makes the Olympic Winter Games so cool. Still, I would rather they have chosen somewhere without Russia's recent record.

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 2):

...so are you coming with me or not?

Not unless I feel like the police would help us if a skinhead gang attacked

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Canuckpaxguy
Posted 2007-07-05 02:32:13 and read 2083 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):

I'll protect you Alireza, don't worry. I'll even buy the first round.

But seriously, you need a good hug man. You are far too young to be this sour.

G

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Sabena332
Posted 2007-07-05 02:36:39 and read 2073 times.

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Thread starter):
Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics

как приказанный

Signed,

Putin

 Wink

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: CupraIbiza
Posted 2007-07-05 02:47:46 and read 2064 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
Until Russia stops its bullying of former Soviet states and the EU with Gazprom and Rosneft and ends its horrific record of corruption

Let he has not sinned cast the first stone.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Derico
Posted 2007-07-05 05:11:41 and read 2022 times.

Sorry, but I just coudn't help but notice how the selection for the Winter Olympics was made IN....


Guatemala City.

 rotfl   rotfl 

ps- I'm not knocking Guatemala City, I think most people will understand why I find this funny...

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Tu204
Posted 2007-07-05 05:16:43 and read 2017 times.

Well, I am definately going. By then I will be flying the charter flights going into Sochi  Wink Too bad it is not the summer ones...this way I could have watched my girlfriend perform there...so I guess I have to go to Beijing

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Centrair
Posted 2007-07-05 08:36:19 and read 1971 times.

I was rooting for Pyeongchang just so that it could be a "unified" olypmics with the North. Sure would have been nice.
But now the Korean teams can play together in Russia.

The neat thing about Sochi is that it could help show the world one of Russia's hidden treasures. This could help tourism and create a new destination for carriers from around the world.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Alessandro
Posted 2007-07-05 08:55:20 and read 1969 times.

Centrair, I think IOC guard their brand better than giving DPRK the winter games, where do they have the money to build
the arenas and hotels?

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Eric
Posted 2007-07-05 09:22:37 and read 1957 times.

I went to Sochi last year, and as much as it got potential, the place is a disaster and will be ruined come Olympics. The infrastructure in the city is so poor: the roads going into the ski resorts are so small, so narrow that major construction work will have to get done. The same goes for the city itself. This will also ruin much of the beauty of the place. On the other hand, this should ease Russia's visa-policy and maybe make Sochi in to a European holiday city much like the Bulgarian sea side resorts have become. The place is filled up with nice, but rotten houses along the sea side so they will be demolished to make way for hotels.

Property tip: Sochi.

The airport will need to get redone as well, currently one terminal with an extra VIP part, dont know but heard the terminal is very small, the VIP section only seats about 50.

Nonetheless, I do not think Russia should have been awarded the Olympics. As mentioned, government corruption is widespread, the rights of minorities are not upheld and protected plus Russia should, at least, have tried to do something about surging anti-gay and racisit movements.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: L410Turbolet
Posted 2007-07-05 11:42:45 and read 1926 times.

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 10):
IOC guard their brand better than giving DPRK

It's not Pyongyang but Pyeongchang and that place is in SOUTH KOREA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyeongchang

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Thread starter):
Russia's Black Sea resort of Sochi was awarded the 2014 Olympics

With the 2008 Olympics being awarded to China it's hardly a surprise.

[Edited 2007-07-05 11:43:15]

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: GreenMOW
Posted 2007-07-05 13:19:49 and read 1901 times.

Being a Russian myself I have really mixed feelings about this IOC decision. As a great winter sports country Russia earned the right to host Winter Olympics many years ago and most of us are proud of this achievement. But on the other hand, Sochi 2014 will be (and if you follow the Russian media already is) used for propaganda of Putin's regime abroad and within Russia, distracting public attention from the true problems our nation faces now. Remember the 1936 Olympics ???

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: NAV20
Posted 2007-07-05 14:24:14 and read 1887 times.

Just so long as they bestir themselves to get the ILS in working order and repair the runway.....has everyone else forgotten the Armavia A320 crash at Sochi last year?

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2752665/

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: LHStarAlliance
Posted 2007-07-05 14:26:11 and read 1882 times.

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Thread starter):

I hoped for for Sochi !

My personal favorite  Smile

Konstantin

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: LTBEWR
Posted 2007-07-05 15:12:17 and read 1864 times.

Is winning an Olympic bid a gift or a curse? How will the new construction and use of this site negatively affect the environment there? I understand that billions of dollars will have to be invested there to make it anywhere acceptable for use, which means a great payoff to the big business czars in Russia. I am also concerned about the Olympics in a country that has a poor human rights record, limited and poor infrastructure, difficult access and so on, but that hasn't stopped the Olympic decision makers before. Perhaps too, by awarding these games to Sochi, Russia is to make up for the USA boycotted 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow, USSR.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: 777236ER
Posted 2007-07-05 15:17:20 and read 1862 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
Quite frankly, this is a joke. Until Russia stops its bullying of former Soviet states and the EU with Gazprom and Rosneft and ends its horrific record of corruption, the IOC should not recognize them in this way.

Given that Beijing won the games, I don't think the IOC particularly cares about human rights abuses, lack of democracy and international bullying.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Tu204
Posted 2007-07-05 15:32:41 and read 1846 times.



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 17):
Given that Beijing won the games, I don't think the IOC particularly cares about human rights abuses, lack of democracy and international bullying.

I really do not understand you people. The Olympics is about bringing people together and all I hear so far is bitching and moaning. What human rights record? What international bullying? Especially when the latter is coming from Americans and Brits...this makes their statements VERY credible.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: 777236ER
Posted 2007-07-05 15:47:13 and read 1839 times.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 18):
What human rights record? What international bullying?

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-rus/index
http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-chn/index

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 18):
The Olympics is about bringing people together

As well as rewarding cities and countries. For the IOC to give the games to Chinese and Russian cities shows that the IOC truly don't care about human rights abuses in those countries. To them, ensuring that sponsors make a profit is more important than the integrity of the games, which was lost decades ago.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: LTU932
Posted 2007-07-05 20:30:35 and read 1787 times.

Quoting GreenMOW (Reply 13):
Sochi 2014 will be (and if you follow the Russian media already is) used for propaganda of Putin's regime abroad and within Russia, distracting public attention from the true problems our nation faces now.

Indeed. And on top of that, Gazprom is offering themselves as a sponsor to the IOC and want to invest over €100 million in the future. I hope for their sake that those €100 million are not dirty money, but money honestly earned from their revenue, but something tells me that it isn't.

http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1413915.html (German only)

Personally, I would have liked Salzburg more. However, the good thing about Salzburg not getting the bid is that this may pave the way for a possible candidacy of Munich for the 2018 Winter Olympics. I sure wish Germany would finally get the Winter Olympics again, since our last one was the 1936 Winter Olympics in Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: L410Turbolet
Posted 2007-07-05 23:06:17 and read 1739 times.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 20):
Personally, I would have liked Salzburg more. However, the good thing about Salzburg not getting the bid is that this may pave the way for a possible candidacy of Munich for the 2018 Winter Olympics. I sure wish Germany would finally get the Winter Olympics again, since our last one was the 1936 Winter Olympics in Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

Either one better get it sooner than later because imho it will be one of the last chances to have Olympics due to not exactly optimistic forecasts as to snow conditions in the Alps in the near future (I hope I will be proven wrong).
Unfortunately the IOC has different criteria...

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 20):
Gazprom is offering themselves as a sponsor to the IOC and want to invest over €100 million in the future.

It will be same as China. Government spending virtually unlimited amounts of money for a 3-week megalomaniac publicity stunt so the dictator can boast himself.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Carmenlu15
Posted 2007-07-05 23:12:37 and read 1732 times.

Quoting Derico (Reply 7):
ps- I'm not knocking Guatemala City, I think most people will understand why I find this funny...

 rotfl  Yup, I found it funny as well. Can't complain though, as it's about time our country was in the spotlight for something good at least once.  Smile

Besides, we got an AN-124 and a Korean Air 747 among other beauties... Big grin

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Slider
Posted 2007-07-05 23:34:27 and read 1720 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
Quite frankly, this is a joke. Until Russia stops its bullying of former Soviet states and the EU with Gazprom and Rosneft and ends its horrific record of corruption, the IOC should not recognize them in this way.

Yup- but as someone already pointed out PEK, follow the money!!

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: QANTASFOREVER
Posted 2007-07-05 23:46:43 and read 1707 times.

Congratulations Sochi and Russia.

Of course, cities are awarded the Olympic games, not countries. We'll never be entirely happy with what a country stands for, but part of the Olympic spirit involves lifting up an entire region to the highest standards, and Sochi (and we hope Russia) will benefit from the investments in infrastructure for years and years to come (not to mention the international scrutiny).

QFF

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2007-07-05 23:51:19 and read 1700 times.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 19):
For the IOC to give the games to Chinese and Russian cities shows that the IOC truly don't care about human rights abuses in those countries.

However, several threats to link Darfur and the Beijing Olympics has helped China to bend its position, so who knows, maybe Russia will be less of a looney bin because of the Olympics. Arguably the increased media attention could help the human rights situation.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: QANTASforever
Posted 2007-07-05 23:56:00 and read 1700 times.

777236ER - Meet you back here when the logo is announced. We'll talk.  Wink

QFF

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: L410Turbolet
Posted 2007-07-06 00:02:49 and read 1690 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
Arguably the increased media attention could help the human rights situation.

As we have withessed in the case of China... Ever heard the term Potemkin village???

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: DL021
Posted 2007-07-06 00:09:31 and read 1686 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
record of corruption, the IOC should not recognize them in this way.

And how do you think the IOC has worked since it got started? By fairly evaluating all the options or measuring hotel room size and gift amounts?

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 2):
Russia is hardly the only country in the world plagued with corruption. We'd both be pretty hypocritical if we said either of our countries weren't.

Seriously....normally I take Alireza to task for being a bit too extreme...but I sort of agree with him. There were other options with nations that have better records.....although I'll bet there'll be some vodka flowing.

If the invites open to everyone I'll be there.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 19):
For the IOC to give the games to Chinese and Russian cities shows that the IOC truly don't care about human rights abuses in those countries.

I agree with you there.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Tu204
Posted 2007-07-06 04:48:15 and read 1643 times.



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 19):
As well as rewarding cities and countries. For the IOC to give the games to Chinese and Russian cities shows that the IOC truly don't care about human rights abuses in those countries. To them, ensuring that sponsors make a profit is more important than the integrity of the games, which was lost decades ago.

Well, if you would like to add to your argument London getting 2012 then we can start talking. But lets leave the political side of this discussion. If you want to talk about human rights abuses, lets IM or start a new thread.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Mir
Posted 2007-07-06 05:42:50 and read 1624 times.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 18):
What human rights record?

Actually, that's a pretty good question when you're talking about China.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 26):
777236ER - Meet you back here when the logo is announced.

They already have one, and while I've seen better, at least it's not the logo that shall remain nameless:



-Mir

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Derico
Posted 2007-07-06 06:16:33 and read 1617 times.

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 22):
Yup, I found it funny as well. Can't complain though, as it's about time our country was in the spotlight for something good at least once

Guatemala is my favorite country in America Central, I don't know why but it always was! Doesn't mean I wound't visit El Salvador, Costa Rica and Panama too, in fact I'm planning something in the next three years, obviously not in stone yet but I need to visit.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: QANTASforever
Posted 2007-07-06 06:19:27 and read 1617 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
They already have one, and while I've seen better, at least it's not the logo that shall remain nameless:

No, that's the bid logo. It will not be the official logo of the games. Every city has a bid logo and a game logo and they're always different.

QFF

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: FlyDeltaJets87
Posted 2007-07-06 06:58:20 and read 1604 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
Quite frankly, this is a joke. Until Russia stops its bullying of former Soviet states and the EU with Gazprom and Rosneft and ends its horrific record of corruption, the IOC should not recognize them in this way.

Heh....you say that like they've had a good track record up to this point. I mean, Moscow in 1980. Berlin in 1936. China in 2008.

Though I will say, the whole point of the Olympic Games is for two weeks, for the nations of the world to put aside their differences and unite in the spirit and goodwill of the games.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2007-07-06 07:15:23 and read 1598 times.

The most surprising part of this to me is that Putin was willing to make a speech in English to pursuade the IOC. He is adament about always speaking in Russian and using an interpreter, even though he has no trouble conversing in English. These games must really be important to him.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Alessandro
Posted 2007-07-06 09:48:08 and read 1571 times.

LET410T, thanks for correcting my mistake.
Anyhow I prefer this game to be held in Russia, they got the money and space to hold the games.
Still waiting to for the winter olympics being held in South America...

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: 777236ER
Posted 2007-07-06 12:51:43 and read 1552 times.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 29):
If you want to talk about human rights abuses, lets IM or start a new thread.

Why? The IOC see fit to give the games to Russia, despite human rights' abuses. Surely then human rights' abuses in Russia are relevent in a thread about the IOC giving the games to Russia?

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2007-07-06 16:09:36 and read 1526 times.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 27):
Ever heard the term Potemkin village???

Not possible with today's media--maybe for actual Chinese and Russians but you can't pull a fast one on the rest of the world's media on such a grand scale.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: OV735
Posted 2007-07-06 21:03:57 and read 1487 times.

I am so happy that a model nation with an advanced democracy, fully developed human rights, high tolerance for foreigners, a well-developed economy and a high life expectancy will hold the Winter Olympics.....



...in 2010. Go Vancouver, Go Canada!

As for Sochi.... was the jury on drugs or something?

Cheers,
OV735

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Tu204
Posted 2007-07-07 05:25:14 and read 1447 times.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 36):

Why? The IOC see fit to give the games to Russia, despite human rights' abuses. Surely then human rights' abuses in Russia are relevent in a thread about the IOC giving the games to Russia?

They also gave London the games despite your illegal occupation and invasion of a sovreign country and your human rights abuses, why shouldn't we get them too  Wink ?

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Jaws707
Posted 2007-07-07 06:08:23 and read 1439 times.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 32):
No, that's the bid logo. It will not be the official logo of the games. Every city has a bid logo and a game logo and they're always different.

I like this logo so I wouldn't mind if they kept it, but if they change it, odds are pretty good it will be better than that disaster London changed theirs to.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Tu204
Posted 2007-07-07 19:09:16 and read 1404 times.

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 40):
I like this logo so I wouldn't mind if they kept it, but if they change it, odds are pretty good it will be better than that disaster London changed theirs to.

I believe that there is an unspoken rule that they must change the logo from the bid to the actual games.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: 777236ER
Posted 2007-07-08 13:30:46 and read 1361 times.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 39):
They also gave London the games despite your illegal occupation and invasion of a sovreign country and your human rights abuses, why shouldn't we get them too Wink

The invasion wasn't illegal, it was legal. The occupation is supported by a UN mandate.

What human rights' abuses in the UK?

Considering this thread is about Russia, let's talk about Russian human rights' abuses, OK?

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR460282007?open&of=ENG-RUS
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR460272007?open&of=ENG-RUS
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR460252007?open&of=ENG-RUS
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR460152007?open&of=ENG-RUS
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR460132007?open&of=ENG-RUS
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR460112007?open&of=ENG-RUS

Just the first few of the link I posted above. They go all the way back to 12th April 2007! Imagine if I posted all the ones published over the last ten years.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: OHLHD
Posted 2007-07-08 16:12:47 and read 1352 times.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 16):
Is winning an Olympic bid a gift or a curse?

It depends.

Salzburg ( Austria) was number 3 and obviously did not have a change.

BUT, Austrian economy aswell as several companies in Austria a very happy that Sotchi got the games. A lot of them can invest no millions and millions of Euros there with the help of some russian oligarchs. There's virtually nothing that could be used during the games. Everything has to be built new.

Some companies are:

STRABAG ( infrastructure like roads etc)
Doppelmayer ( Skilifts)

If Salzburg had won the games not much should have been to do.

A curse for the toursim but a gift for the ecomomy.  Smile

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: US330
Posted 2007-07-08 17:03:03 and read 1347 times.

"Heh....you say that like they've had a good track record up to this point. I mean, Moscow in 1980. Berlin in 1936. China in 2008."

Sorry for nitpicking here, but, according to the Wikipedia entry on the Berlin Summer Olympics, the games were actually awarded to Berlin in 1931, before the Nazi Party came to power. Thus, it wouldn't be fair to group the Berlin Games in the same category as the Moscow Games or the Beijing Games. You can't really blame the IOC for not being able to predict the future.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Canuckpaxguy
Posted 2007-07-08 17:16:24 and read 1342 times.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
If the invites open to everyone I'll be there.

Of course it is!

G

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Tu204
Posted 2007-07-08 19:46:02 and read 1331 times.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 42):
The invasion wasn't illegal, it was legal. The occupation is supported by a UN mandate.

What??? Are you that forgetfull? The invasion of Iraq was NOT legal. It was NOT sanctioned by the UN because Blair and Bush could not convince the security council that there were WMD's in Iraq so he and "the coalition of the willing" went on an ILLEGAL INVASION OF A SOVREIGN STATE. Yes, after you made a complete mess of things and caused a civil war, the UN did support an occupation to keep it from getting any uglier, but if I am not mistaken, they would like a multinational force under the command of the UN.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 42):
What human rights' abuses in the UK?

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR450112007?open&of=ENG-GBR
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR450092007?open&of=ENG-GBR
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR450082007?open&of=ENG-GBR
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE280122007?open&of=ENG-GBR
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR450072007?open&of=ENG-GBR
That also dates back to April 2007, I believe I would get quite alot more had I searched the last 10 years.

Is the pot calling the kettle black?

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: 777236ER
Posted 2007-07-09 09:19:05 and read 1300 times.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 46):
Is the pot calling the kettle black?

Have you even read your links? Not only do most of them demonstrate the legal process UK law requires for our judicial system, but shows our judicial system actively fighting to protect human rights. Compare your links to the Amnesty concerns on Russia: disappearences in Chechnya, instances of the European Courrt on Human Right's saying that Russia denied the right to life of a Chechen woman detained for organising peaceful demonstrations and executed without trial, a case of four Russian soldiers murdered civilians, Russian police beating up peaceful anti-government dissenters, denial of health care to political prisoners whose trials didnt even meet political standards to start with. Sorry, but this isn't a battle you can remotely win. Are you denying that there aren't serious human rights' abuses in Russia?

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 46):
The invasion of Iraq was NOT legal. It was NOT sanctioned by the UN because Blair and Bush could not convince the security council that there were WMD's in Iraq so he and "the coalition of the willing" went on an ILLEGAL INVASION OF A SOVREIGN STATE

Whether or not Russia and China wanted it, Resolution 1441 allowed the 'severe consequence' of war, especially given the 1998 bombing attacks which were justified by similarly-worded resolutions.

Don't get me wrong, I disagreed with the start of the war in Iraq for the reasons given, but to suggest it's illegal in either domestic or international law is wrong. The fact that the UN went onto support the war and the presence of troops in Iraq goes someway to show that the rest of the world agrees with that.

And please, don't dare try and preach to the West about the legitimacy of wars when you've been involved with Chechnya for so long.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Slider
Posted 2007-07-09 18:05:10 and read 1272 times.

Anyone talking about denying or mitigating Russian human rights abuses is simply talking out of their $^* IMHO.

It's not about starting a tit for tat argument. The Olympics are a freaking joke anyhow...

It's nothing but a pork barrel license to go crazy on wasting money, beefing up infrastructure and profligate government spending all for a two week orgasm of supposed athletic competition. Talk about misplaced priorities.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: Tu204
Posted 2007-07-10 04:50:08 and read 1248 times.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 47):
Sorry, but this isn't a battle you can remotely win. Are you denying that there aren't serious human rights' abuses in Russia?

Serious human rights abuses are the ones in the Congo and Iraq. Ours are not serious and half of them are vital to the stability of our nation.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 47):

Don't get me wrong, I disagreed with the start of the war in Iraq for the reasons given, but to suggest it's illegal in either domestic or international law is wrong. The fact that the UN went onto support the war and the presence of troops in Iraq goes someway to show that the rest of the world agrees with that.

No, the UN did not go to support the war but rather the peacekeeping force in Iraq and not as a gesture of support for the war, but because what are the other options? If all troops were to be pulled out now, the country would go into all-out-open civil war (even though that is pretty much what is going on now, it can get worse) I honestly do not see many countries that actually support the invasion and occupation of Iraq, even in the United States the majority of the population is against it.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 47):
political prisoners

You mean prisoners?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 47):

And please, don't dare try and preach to the West about the legitimacy of wars when you've been involved with Chechnya for so long.

Don't dare preach us about democracy and "bullying neighbours" after your histories.

Topic: RE: Sochi, Russia To Host 2014 Winter Olympics
Username: 777236ER
Posted 2007-07-10 13:10:10 and read 1229 times.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 49):
Ours are not serious and half of them are vital to the stability of our nation.

Now you're justifying abuses of fundamental human rights?! Hitler might have argued that murderering six million Jews was vital for the stability of the third reich, that doesn't make it any less abhorrant.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 49):
You mean prisoners?

No, I (and Amnesty International) mean political prisoners.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 49):
Don't dare preach us about democracy and "bullying neighbours" after your histories.

Whilst the history of every nation has been horrendously bloody at points, over the last 100 years which nation has killed the most civilians? I'll give you a clue, it's not Nazi Germany.


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