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Topic: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-15 19:38:30 and read 3272 times.

Oh well, the other one was getting long, so lets start off here now

India are off to a good start - Wasim Jaffer getting "some" runs now

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-16 00:26:12 and read 3254 times.

Interesting 1st day in progress.
Scoreboard
India 215/4

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-16 02:11:20 and read 3247 times.

A good day has turned into a bad day now - 297/6, after loosing some key batsman at key moments

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-16 09:16:37 and read 3233 times.

India need 400+
Time Dhoni contributed with the bat.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: LH477
Posted 2008-01-16 10:16:33 and read 3232 times.

I am hoping Pathan has a good run with the bat and the ball. I would like to see him get a good run being on the team.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: TSV
Posted 2008-01-16 19:53:35 and read 3224 times.

India all out for an Airbus (330). Australia about to start their 1st Innings...

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-16 20:53:57 and read 3222 times.

Lunch on day 2
India 330 all out
Australia 22/3

Both openers - Jacques and Rogers - gone, plus Hussey, who gets his first duck.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-17 02:08:34 and read 3209 times.

India have pulled through the day, with India certainly on top

Now the next question - When Does Jaffer get dropped?

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: VHVXB
Posted 2008-01-17 02:20:03 and read 3205 times.



Quoting Ag92 (Reply 7):
India have pulled through the day

Indeed!! Quite an impressive bowling performance by the Indian seamers

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-17 02:35:48 and read 3204 times.



Quoting VHVXB (Reply 8):
Indeed!! Quite an impressive bowling performance by the Indian seamers

And yet listening to the Channel 9 commentary team, you'd think Australia were 600 ahead after first innings.  Yeah sure

They really are unbelievable at times.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-17 03:42:51 and read 3202 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
And yet listening to the Channel 9 commentary team, you'd think Australia were 600 ahead after first innings.

Not sure about that - Tony Greig kind of evens things up, I have yet to hear him say anything good about the Oz players!  Smile

Watched most of it - a good exciting day. It amused me to see what can only be described as an 'excess' of sportsmanship from both sides - never seen so many smiles, handshakes, and congratulations between two international sides in just two days........very refreshing. Full marks to Chris Rogers, playing in his first Test, who grassed one and just signalled 'no catch' immediately, no nonsense about waiting for the third umpire.

Umpire Rauf may be the next umpire to get 'rested,' though. His score in lousy decisions (all LBWs) currently stands at three - Tendulkar and Dhoni going over the top, Rogers going down leg side.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-17 03:49:24 and read 3200 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
And yet listening to the Channel 9 commentary team, you'd think Australia were 600 ahead after first innings.

They really are unbelievable at times

What did they say? lets hear some "highlights".

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Umpire Rauf may be the next umpire to get 'rested

Guess he needs to visualize for bounce too.

Good performance by the Indian Bowlers.Now can they get a 475+ lead.

Has Aus ever trailed by 100+ at perth.What does the stats say?

regds
MEL.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Nimish
Posted 2008-01-17 03:50:36 and read 3199 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
It amused me to see what can only be described as an 'excess' of sportsmanship from both sides - never seen so many smiles, handshakes, and congratulations between two international sides in just two days........very refreshing.

Interesting to see such a drastic change in behavior after the recent debacle, I hope both sides can go back to proper cricket now and leave controversy for the politicians.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-17 04:02:13 and read 3196 times.

And to add.Kumble.
600+ wickets.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-17 04:08:42 and read 3196 times.



Quoting Nimish (Reply 12):
I hope both sides can go back to proper cricket now

I'm sure they will, Nimish - when they're out in the middle. But I'd LOVE to have been able to hear the language when Australia found themselves 170 behind after only two days, facing the prospect of batting last on the fourth and fifth days at Perth.

One of those times when you make sure the dressing-room door is shut and then everyone puts five bucks in the swearbox.......  Smile

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-17 04:19:39 and read 3194 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
And yet listening to the Channel 9 commentary team, you'd think Australia were 600 ahead after first innings. Yeah sure

They really are unbelievable at times.

Well, Nav is right, compared with some of the other comments, Channel 9 are quite mild and Greggy is always a maverick - I mean he can even pronounce Sri Lankan names. ON serious matters, I don't think I have ever seen the ball swinging quite as much at Perth, and certainly the Indians swing was more dangerous than that even from Lee - who can be quite "nasty".

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Umpire Rauf may be the next umpire to get 'rested

Guess he needs to visualize for bounce too.

You guys just don't realise one fundamental rule of the game out here. Tendulkar has been officially pronounced as so small, that it does not matter where the ball hits him, he is automatically LBW. Other rules are non-operative. This rule is a corollary of the other rule, that Hayden is so big, that wherever it hits him he is not out because you no longer know where the stumps are and so an adverse decision would be unfair - just ask Banco about that rule.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
What did they say? lets hear some "highlights".

Don't ask me, every time I was NOT watching one, or more commonly two wickets fell and in any case when I have the TV on, the sound is off and the ABC radio is on.

But I do know that C Gull had something nasty stuck in his throat.

There might be a bit of a war going on in the Nine group. I get the feeling that some were critical of Aus antics at SCG and at least Richie thought they were well behaved. There seemed to be a sort of subtext that some of the things attributed to Ian Chappell were not so much him but others. His rather larrikin approach to Sir Don (please Sir can I have another piece of bread and dripping) has won him "credit" for some things he may not have done.

I am not saying anything about how well India played until they keep it up for another two days. Cos they have done well before. As did England in Adelaide in a certain unfortunate game!  Wow!  Big grin

But Kumble 601 wickets - wow!!

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-17 04:35:36 and read 3193 times.

About this 'smiling sportsmanship' thing, I was once given the inside story (well, the story from somoene who ought to have known, anyway) about an incident in the fourth (deciding) Ashes Test in England. People who saw it may recall that, late on, with England close to a win, Lee had an LBW shout against Hoggard turned down, spoke to the umpire, then stalked down the pitch and said something to Hoggie - who replied with a seraphic smile. After which Lee bowled rubbish for the rest of his spell.

I was told that the conversations went as follows:-

Umpire:- "Not out, he edged it."

Lee to Hoggard:- "Did you hit that?"

Hoggard to Lee (with aforesaid sweet smile):- "Nah, COURSE I didn't....."

[Edited 2008-01-17 04:36:57]

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-17 06:34:03 and read 3180 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
His score in lousy decisions (all LBWs) currently stands at three - Tendulkar and Dhoni going over the top, Rogers going down leg side.

You must be aware that these umpires don't get any technology to aid them. I will admit that Chris Rogers was something which should have been not out and having not seen Tendulkar's or Dhoni's I can't really make a judgement, however they only have one view and ONLY one view on it

Its interesting how tommorow will shape out
Interesting only one person has mentioned that Kumble got 600 wickets (I forgot to add that to my initial post)

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-17 07:10:24 and read 3177 times.



Quoting Ag92 (Reply 17):
Interesting only one person has mentioned that Kumble got 600 wickets

Been a fan of Kumble for years and years. Such a contrast to one I could mention. For my money, I am more surprised that it was not his 1600 th wicket!! He has bounce spin and it all seems to happen just a bit too fast for my liking.

If they keep their LBWs consistently giving em out when not out, that is OK. The problems at SCG arose from the 10:1 or whatever balance, er imbalance.

Tendulkar was not out (again) but he does take them in such a gentlemanly fashion. I guess the Indians thought the Aus innings got off to an appropriate start when an iffy LBW went their way. After that, the Aus batsmen were all definitely OUT. The lack of simple bowled rather suggests that LBWs should not be common. I noticed the Aus #9 "leaving" the ball over middle stump on a large TV in a shop while herself was shopping! Good leave too.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-17 07:49:25 and read 3176 times.

Roy has the luck of the Devil  Smile

Quoting Ag92 (Reply 17):
Interesting only one person has mentioned that Kumble got 600 wickets

Guess in this thread as in the cricket stats,hes the unnoticed 3rd.

hopefully India bat well on the 3rd day & set up a good target.

time will tell.

RP getting gili after 3 in a row 4s was a class comeback.

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-17 09:16:26 and read 3169 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 15):
Well, Nav is right, compared with some of the other comments, Channel 9 are quite mild and Greggy is always a maverick - I mean he can even pronounce Sri Lankan names.

It's never anything specific, it's just a constant flow of "Aren't Australia wonderful" stuff, and when you have a situation like today when Australia are actually in pretty deep trouble it's just the absolute certainty in everything that they say that Australia will come out on top. I know why that is - because they have done so much! Nevertheless, it's unconsciously rather disrespectful to the opposition to assume that them having the upper hand is merely temporary. It irritates me, and I'm a neutral! Tawny Grigg is a different kettle of fish, I agree.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 16):
Hoggard to Lee (with aforesaid sweet smile):- "Nah, COURSE I didn't....."

Yes, I remember that. Actually, it was missing leg by some way as well, but that's not why it was given not out. And of course Hoggard, to the disbelief of the whole of England, slapped a perfect cover drive off Lee to effectively close out the game shortly afterwards.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-17 16:30:26 and read 3156 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 20):
it's just the absolute certainty in everything that they say that Australia will come out on top.

They very nearly DID while Gilchrist and Symonds were still there, Banco.  Smile I thought at one stage that India might have had the opportunity to enforce the follow-on. Kumble's 600th. was a crucial turning-point. As it is, Australia still has a bare chance of winning - if they can dismiss India for not too much.

Have my doubts about the pitch - 15 wickets in a day at Perth was previously unheard-off as far as I know, especially on only the second day. And all three people who bowled spin seemed to be getting an element of actual turn as well as drift.

As always, the likely course of the match depends on the next session. If Australia bowls as badly as they did last night (especially with the Indian version of Gilchrist, Sehwag, still there) they'll probably be 'history' by lunch-time today! A few quick wickets, though, and they'll be back in the match.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-17 19:04:53 and read 3149 times.

Sehwag Out sadly. Now will Sehwag be given an opportunity to play in the fourth test? and can Dravid score 10,000 runs in this test. He walked out on 9888 runs so its a good possibility.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: VHVXB
Posted 2008-01-17 23:15:00 and read 3141 times.

Oh dear more trouble.
http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=368583

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-18 00:43:50 and read 3135 times.

India Finish on 294.

Aus require 413 to win.Two days to go.Interesting position.
Will the Bowlers do the JOB.

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-18 04:11:07 and read 3116 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 24):
Will the Bowlers do the JOB.

Mr 601 looked in good touch, but you need to sort out Mr Sharma afore play starts. Big grin Try showing him a video of himself bowling in the first innings, see if he remembers what to do!

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-18 04:34:38 and read 3137 times.

Certainly India's day - their advantage is that they bat all the way down to Number 11. Australia's weak links (on the day anyway) were Tait and Johnson. They reminded me of the England pace attack, people like Harmison and Davidson - 'good in parts,' but always likely to give away at least one boundary an over with a bad ball........

Quoting Baroque (Reply 25):
you need to sort out Mr Sharma afore play starts.

Agree entirely - for my money, he and Pathan are the keys to victory for India.

Funny that this has become almost a 'timeless test.' With more than two whole days spare, Kumble didn't have to bother his head about declaring. And Australia don't have to push themselves to achieve any 'required run rate.' Although I've never felt that having lots of time to get the runs helps the batting side unduly, the thing's either there to hit or it isn't.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-18 09:02:31 and read 3121 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 25):
but you need to sort out Mr Sharma afore play starts.

Err, what's wrong with Ishant ? Sure his economy rate was a bit below par, but he got rid of two prize wickets, and bowled with heart. He's just 19.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
Certainly India's day - their advantage is that they bat all the way down to Number 11.

I wouldn't say that. In fact based on performance until now, our batting ends at Dhoni. Even he's been out of touch, only scoring significantly in this innings, after repeated failures. We just happened to put up a fighting performance to put a competitive total on board - there's no other way to describe someone like RP Singh scoring 30 odd on WACA against Lee and Tait.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-18 11:52:03 and read 3113 times.

Kumble will be the key on day 4.Maybe sehwag can chip in a few.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-18 17:17:47 and read 3106 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 27):
We just happened to put up a fighting performance to put a competitive total on board

Don't think it 'just happened,' Barfbag. Apart from Pathan's (very possibly match-winning) innings, the other tailenders (Kumble aside) did a pretty good job of supporting Laxman.

As I said earlier, that pitch is not typical of Perth. 'Normally' Perth wickets give precious little help to either seamers or spinners once the ball is say 25 overs old, and there isn't much swing either until the 'Fremantle Doctor' wind comes in in the afternoon. Raw pace, pitched a bit short of a length, has always tended to be the most reliable wicket-taker there.

The statistics are all on India's side - Very few winning last-innings scores above 300 there. But Pathan can't do it all on his own, he needs all the other bowlers to contribute too.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-18 17:23:53 and read 3106 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 29):
The statistics are all on India's side

You can say that again! Although of course huge 4th innings scores are made, and over 400 to win has happened before, there's a reason why when a target like this is set there's very little realistic chance of the batting side getting home.

It might happen, but it probably won't.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: VHVXB
Posted 2008-01-18 23:46:13 and read 3098 times.

India heading to victory 253/8

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-19 00:09:39 and read 3094 times.

290/8.....
123 runs or 2 wkts.Can the Aus Tailenders score the runs.They'll need to just slog.
regds
MEL

[Edited 2008-01-19 00:21:13]

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-19 00:42:09 and read 3085 times.

326/8 thats where I was getting scared but just a few seconds ago the 9th wicket fell
Phew  relieved 

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-19 01:01:59 and read 3086 times.

Finally, in part, revenge for Sydney. I'm glad we could beat Australia after facing the kind of cheating we did in Sydney. But for that, this series would have been 1-1 now, which would have been the fair result.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-19 01:57:59 and read 3071 times.

Well-deserved win, India was better in all departments except maybe wicket-keeping and fielding.

They owe the win to me actually. Don't know about Indian dressing-rooms but there's a rule in Aussie and English ones that if you're sitting down at tense moments you STAY sitting down. I was eating dinner, and after Johnson got his fifty I headed for the kitchen to refill my wineglass. He was out just as my hand reached the door-handle.......

Surprising, since I live in Melbourne. Didn't realise that the 'effective range' of superstitions like that is over 2,000 miles......  Smile

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-19 02:14:35 and read 3066 times.



Quoting Ag92 (Reply 33):
326/8 thats where I was getting scared but just a few seconds ago the 9th wicket fell

He he! Big grin It's horrible watching the tailenders get closer and closer, isn't it? Imagine how we felt two years ago when they added 120 and got within 2 runs? Nervous wrecks, we were.

Well done, India. And the series is alive!

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-19 02:28:48 and read 3064 times.

I was walking back and worth in front of the damn TV muttering a stream of abuse at Mitchell Johnson, Stuart Clark and just about every Indian cricket team member... phew, it was a terrible hour or so. Unlike NAV20, I made sure I was moving around as much as possible, hoping each move would somehow jinx the Aussie tailenders. I have to say I never expected Clark and Johnson to bat like that. Well done, much more so than their top and middle order peers. Once Clark went, I knew it was all over. Tait has already fallen apart mentally after his abysmal bowling performance following all the rubbish 'I'll blow the Indians away' hype from him, no way he was going to do anything with the bat.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-19 03:27:29 and read 3040 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 27):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 25):
but you need to sort out Mr Sharma afore play starts.

Err, what's wrong with Ishant ? Sure his economy rate was a bit below par, but he got rid of two prize wickets, and bowled with heart. He's just 19.

Nothing wrong with the Ishant that bowled to Ponting Sat am, but that was not the same guy who had the same name and hair late Fri and was doing a bit of a Tate, although not as spectacular. Someone took my advice and showed him a film of himself the way he bowled in the first innings.

Well done India, and more importantly in some ways, well deserved. It might have been less nerve wracking if you did not keep getting folk "out" on no-balls.

I claim some of the credit for the ninth and tenth wickets as I flicked channels in both cases after watching ABC in time to see both. But as Nav says, powerful fluence at 2000 miles! Yes, Banco, it was getting nearly as gut-wrenching as Edgebaston. Series alive, but not the cup. SCG should be declared a no contest.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-19 05:58:11 and read 3025 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 37):
I was walking back and worth in front of the damn TV muttering a stream of abuse

You see, it was rather different to me as I was drifting in and out of sleep in front of the telly, having decided (it was a Saturday after all) to stay downstairs and watch a bit of the cricket through the night. In that half asleep state I was watching this left hander smash the ball to all parts and was thinking "Gilchrist's going a bit mad isn't he?" Big grin

I fully woke in time to catch the last couple of wickets, and then sat through the replays.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-19 06:53:09 and read 3024 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 39):
In that half asleep state I was watching this left hander smash the ball to all parts and was thinking "Gilchrist's going a bit mad isn't he?"

You probably missed the best bit then. Sehwag came on to bowl, and you could see the "6" lights come on in Gilly's eyes. Then the total astonishment of Gilly as Sehwag bowled him round his legs. I have a feeling that at first Sehwag was nearly as surprised.

Apparently the post match speeches were OK, but I was watching Dr Marty by then!  Wow!

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-19 08:26:10 and read 3016 times.

Amazing match for us, we had our moments and so did Australia

I have one what if question.
What if Clarke decided to go against using his feet against Anil Kumble?

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-19 08:40:17 and read 3013 times.



Quoting Ag92 (Reply 41):
I have one what if question.
What if Clarke decided to go against using his feet against Anil Kumble?

That was a part I missed - bloody Nine news. I assume that Kumble, the crafty old devil that he is, would have tempted Clarke to the point where any decision Clarke tried to make was null and void, that ball was SOO SOO easy to hit, ooops. But I think it was not shown here. And certainly you would need to see the build up, that is the way Kumble (Mr 60 how many now, damn I have lost count!) catches his "flies".

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-19 08:47:24 and read 3013 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 35):
I was eating dinner, and after Johnson got his fifty I headed for the kitchen to refill my wineglass. He was out just as my hand reached the door-handle.......

Next time you visit Mumbai,Drinks are on me  wink 

Fantastic Match after the events a forthnight ago & the team was almost returning home.

Pathan & sehwag are back.

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-19 08:54:11 and read 3009 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 43):
& sehwag are back

You think? He got a couple of wickets, hardly enough to secure his place as a batsman. What I saw of him showed the same old technical flaws that have plagued him for the last few years. He's an exciting player, and you want them to succeed, but I remain to be convinced by him.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-19 11:14:48 and read 2999 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 36):
It's horrible watching the tailenders get closer and closer, isn't it? Imagine how we felt two years ago when they added 120 and got within 2 runs? Nervous wrecks, we were.

I can't imagine! Just having Johnson and Clark come within 100 runs of the target was enough to make me nervous, and I had a bottle of beer to calm down with, even though I typically don't drink in the early afternoon. At least I didn't throw the bottle at the TV. It must have been terrible for you in Edgbaston - you probably chewed through yours and the missus' nails.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 29):
Don't think it 'just happened,' Barfbag. Apart from Pathan's (very possibly match-winning) innings, the other tailenders (Kumble aside) did a pretty good job of supporting Laxman.

I agree that circumstances had a role to play. India correctly read the Perth pitch, while Australia took it for granted that it would be its usual trampoline self. Australia also had to keep the quicks out for extended intervals in the afternoon, thanks to their slow over rate. Tait, for whatever reason, was lost in his own hype and did terribly, never recovering from his embarassing 10-ball over at the close of day 2.

However, our own batting hasn't quite been so resilient until now. Dhoni and Yuvraj still need to develop their technique to play comfortably in Australia. The only person who really takes to Australia like a duck to water is the peerless VVS Laxman. Even Dravid takes a while to find his bearings. Has anyone else from any other team batted against Australia like VVS does , in the last few years ?

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-19 12:37:43 and read 2992 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 44):
You think? He got a couple of wickets, hardly enough to secure his place as a batsman.

The Alternatives are Jaffar & Kartik.At least Sehwag adds a spinner to the game.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 45):
Has anyone else from any other team batted against Australia like VVS does , in the last few years ?

I wonder if anyone has a better record against AUS than Laxman.

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-19 22:18:08 and read 2975 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 45):
Has anyone else from any other team batted against Australia like VVS does , in the last few years ?

Dravid last time, Tendulkar until the ball goes near his pads while a white coat is around, and Vaughan at times the time before last, but basically no, VVS is VVS especially at Sydney.

The odd thing is that Ponting might well have asked India to bat had he won the toss. I think India did judge the pitch more accurately. Now they need to figure out how to keep the parts of the team that work. Sehwag might be less of a risk in Adelaide and those square boundaries must make his eyes light up. Yuvraj has seemed a lost cause, and alas, where is the batting of Dhoni? I mean Sehwag is bowling better than Dhoni is batting.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-19 23:52:16 and read 2969 times.

Yuvraj and Dhoni have relatively weak techniques when it comes to bouncy Australian pitches. Dhoni in particular has a bizarre array of strokes plagiarized from baseball and tennis. Very entertaining on the right pitches, but not workable on unhelpful ones.

The Ishant-Ponting duel on the last day has been oft mentioned. It's now on youtube:

Shades of Curtly Ambrose in those fast pitched up incutters, eh ? I've never seen Ponting look so lost at the crease, since he fell apart spectacularly facing Harbhajan in the 2000-01 series.

Apparently India are the first team from the subcontinent to ever win at Perth, and this is the first time Australia have lost at the WACA in over a decade; the Windies are the only ones to win there in nearly quarter of a century. Quite amazing how we came back from the acrimonious events at Sydney.

It would be perfect if the Sydney result were annulled, considering it wasn't just a case of poor umpiring alone that affected the match, but the Australians themselves pushing boundaries. The series locked at 1-1 going into a winner-takes-all contest at Adelaide would have been perfect.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-20 02:30:55 and read 2955 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 48):
Shades of Curtly Ambrose in those fast pitched up incutters, eh ? I've never seen Ponting look so lost at the crease, since he fell apart spectacularly facing Harbhajan in the 2000-01 series.

True it was a bit like Curtly. But again, it was a totally different Ishant from Friday evening. He definitely got an attack of the Tates on Friday. Had he bowled like that clip on Friday, Sat might have been a lot less fraught for India. I guess those LBWs were sort of marginal, but most were so close Billy must have been tempted to decide that after about 4, near enough was good enough. In the end, you would think Ponting's confidence would not be too good, especially if he watches, as he will, a clip like that. Faced with Harbhajan at one end and Ishant at the other it would make him wonder which end to avoid. Probably he would avoid Ishant, more embarrassing than Harbhajan.

Sad that Yuvraj does not seem likely to make it. He is pretty spectacular when he gets going. Likewise Dhoni. All in all, quite a batting line up if they all fired. But the bowling has been the big surprise. Interesting though that the highest innings in the Perth test was the last one.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-20 08:21:14 and read 2946 times.

Ooops. Best let our Indian friends read this though.

http://www.smh.com.au/letters/?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
"The cricket produced an interesting result. Play aggressively, sledge to your heart's content, intimidate umpires and win 16 in a row. Play somewhere close to the spirit of the game and lose.

Coincidence? I don't think so.

David Davies Baulkham Hills"

A letter to the Sydney Morning Herald.

But there are a couple of complaints that India celebrated its win much like Aus at the SCG.

I prefer this one:
"The cricket farce rolls on. International and national cricket councils continue to allow everyone except the umpires to view television replays of appeals.

These replays ruin reputations of umpires, cause ill-feeling between nations, and make a mockery of decisions that decide who wins a game. Only a third umpire panel should view replays. The results of difficult decisions should always be instantly phoned to central umpires who surely can wait a few seconds before deciding.

John Langrehr Hazelwood Park (SA)"

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: TRVYYZ
Posted 2008-01-20 10:27:11 and read 2944 times.

Congrats to Kumble and his team for the victory! TBH, I never dreamt of it.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-20 10:41:58 and read 2942 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 47):
VVS is VVS especially at Sydney

If its only Sydney,then Sachin has a better record out there than VVS.
But against Aus VVS is King.

Surprise....Ganguly & Dravid Dropped for the ODIs.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-20 15:18:21 and read 2930 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 52):

Surprise....Ganguly & Dravid Dropped for the ODIs.

I didn't realize that Dravid was already dropped, as Cricinfo stated that there was no place for Dravid again
We got Suresh Raina in the field who I have always been a supporter of since he started playing for India

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-20 18:20:04 and read 2922 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 50):
[quoting SMH letter]"These replays ruin reputations of umpires, cause ill-feeling between nations, and make a mockery of decisions that decide who wins a game. Only a third umpire panel should view replays.'

What absolute rubbish (from the writer, not you, Baroque!). TV broadcast rights and advertising contribute around 90% of world cricket's income - and are the only things that make the handsome salaries of the players and the umpires possible.

"Those who live by the tube shall die by the tube....."

If you 'censored' TV coverage (ESPECIALLY the vastly entertaining replays) the players would be soon be back to being rewarded only by the honour of 'playing for their country.' I recall reading that Harold Larwood bowled his heart out for Jardine in Australia in 1932 (up to and including pioneering 'bodyline') because the captain had noticed that Larwood's bowling boots were worn out and ill-fitting - and took him straight to a shop and bought him an expensive new pair......

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-20 21:18:17 and read 2915 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 54):
What absolute rubbish (from the writer, not you, Baroque!). TV broadcast rights and advertising contribute around 90% of world cricket's income - and are the only things that make the handsome salaries of the players and the umpires possible.

"Those who live by the tube shall die by the tube....."

If you 'censored' TV coverage (ESPECIALLY the vastly entertaining replays) the players would be soon be back to being rewarded only by the honour of 'playing for their country.' I recall reading that Harold Larwood bowled his heart out for Jardine in Australia in 1932 (up to and including pioneering 'bodyline') because the captain had noticed that Larwood's bowling boots were worn out and ill-fitting - and took him straight to a shop and bought him an expensive new pair......

Yes, well a history of players not even reasonably looked after, Larwood and the dropping of Fiery Fred but many many more. Only a Chapelli could survive his rebellion.

I think there is only one sentence out of place in that letter. That is the " Only a third umpire panel should view replays." bit. I have to admit at 3 am I assumed he had a qualifier in there.

You are right Nav, no replays, not half as much point in watching. I sort of assumed he wanted the replays straight the Ump #3 and then to the world at large. Aside from anything else, the TV stations would not bother with all the expensive kit needed to get that stuff if they were not going to transmit it. But I did sympathise with the poor umps getting dudded by technology when ump #3 could give them a quick bell and say yea or nay. That is one thing that Channel 9 HAVE been good at, inviting you to see it again at the speed at which the umps made their initial decision. And what with the 25 frames of whatever a sec, you really cannot see anything for sure. But they do stress the point. Not so easy and even more difficult with 30,000 waiting to scream approval or disapproval.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 52):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 47):
VVS is VVS especially at Sydney

If its only Sydney,then Sachin has a better record out there than VVS.
But against Aus VVS is King.

True, but Sachin is never as majestic as VVS in full flow. Aside from anything else, he just lacks the height. And it seems that SCG is a good spot for that off drive of VVS.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-20 21:36:41 and read 2913 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 55):
That is one thing that Channel 9 HAVE been good at, inviting you to see it again at the speed at which the umps made their initial decision. And what with the 25 frames of whatever a sec, you really cannot see anything for sure.

Funny, I've done my fair share of umpiring (at club and junior level) and found LBW decisions relatively easy. I STILL make my own mind up immediately, from the live TV, and can honestly say that the replays usually confirm my first impression (particularly 'too highs'). If it hits above the pad-roll (even with the Little Master, Tendulkar) that's usually a dead giveaway.

Have to confess to ONE distinctly 'moderate' decision though. At the time I said, wth admirable authority and conviction, "Sorry, going down leg....." It probably was. But if I'd been entirely honest I'd have had to say, "Sorry, didn't see it properly, I was brushing a bloody fly away...." - but I suppose that qualifies as 'benefit of the doubt' in Australia.  Smile

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-21 01:08:05 and read 2902 times.

VVS is very wristy much like Azar,thats what makes an interesting watch.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-21 05:21:26 and read 2892 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 57):
VVS is very wristy

See I never understood this term "wristy". What does it mean when people say that.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-21 05:42:57 and read 2890 times.



Quoting Ag92 (Reply 58):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 57):
VVS is very wristy

See I never understood this term "wristy". What does it mean when people say that.

Sounds good though doesn't it!

Actually Tendulkar is also commonly cited as wristy, not Dravid. Ganguly wristy. Generally wrists are mainly found in India it seems! It has not been revealed (so far) what connects the hands of other types of player to their arms.

But usually tall thin players like VVS and Gower, but mostly ones that hit the ball very hard without appearing to try very hard are "wristy". This is great when successful, but it also seems to mean that when they have a run of outs, they are accused of being lazy and not paying attention - hmmm, no pleasing the critics.

The latest craze is bat-speed. Expect the Channel 9 wizards to come up with measure of bat speed any day now.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-21 06:03:44 and read 2888 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 59):
it also seems to mean that when they have a run of outs, they are accused of being lazy and not paying attention

Fair enough, Baroque - David Gower was accused of often being caught behind square on the off side off a 'lazy' cut-stroke. In vain did he protest that, often enough, he'd scored at least half of up to 100 runs per innings through said region beforehand..........

Quoting Ag92 (Reply 58):
See I never understood this term "wristy". What does it mean when people say that.

Ag92, best explanation I can give is that if you watch the slow-motion replays (unless they're banned shortly, like LBW replays  Smile) you'll see that batsmen like Gilchrist or Pietersen seem to launch their whole bodies at the ball, and the direction of the shot seems to be dictated by their arms and shoulders more than anything else.

Batsmen like Tendulkar and VVS (and Gower, when he was around) seem to get that 'direction' more from a last-moment turn of the wrists.

Both techniques are 'effective' - there's no 'perfect' way. But I can say that the 'wristy' technique is by far the most infuriating by a considerable measure, if you happen to be the poor bugger bowling at them........

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-21 07:29:08 and read 2882 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 60):
Ag92, best explanation I can give is that if you watch the slow-motion replays (unless they're banned shortly, like LBW replays ) you'll see that batsmen like Gilchrist or Pietersen seem to launch their whole bodies at the ball, and the direction of the shot seems to be dictated by their arms and shoulders more than anything else.

Mmm. Gilchrist, certainly but I'm not so sure about Pietersen. He has got that absolutely outrageous "flamingo" shot where he pivots on one foot and flicks the ball through midwicket from about three feet outside off. Viv Richards used to do that as well and it's the epitome of having strong wrists to be able to play it and generate the power.

Javed Miandad was a great example of a wristy player, being able to ping the ball through the legside with incredible power from almost anywhere. Same with the majestic Aravinda da Silva. Generally speaking, it's the strength of players who grow up on flat, low pitches though, which is why the word "wristy" often gets applied to sub-continental players. Someone like Matt Hayden is the absolute antithesis of the wristy player, he just bangs it back in the direction it has come from!

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 56):
Funny, I've done my fair share of umpiring (at club and junior level) and found LBW decisions relatively easy. I STILL make my own mind up immediately, from the live TV, and can honestly say that the replays usually confirm my first impression (particularly 'too highs'). If it hits above the pad-roll (even with the Little Master, Tendulkar) that's usually a dead giveaway.

Yes, I agree, and I do the same. However, it is actually rather easier on television than in reality, because the standing umpire also has to take into account the front line, then look up. If people are talking about help for umpires, that's one area that could easily be remedied. Having to look up, refocus and make a decision is very hard!

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 48):
I've never seen Ponting look so lost at the crease, since he fell apart spectacularly facing Harbhajan in the 2000-01 series.

He doesn't get worked over that often. Flintoff did it in 2005, and there was one over where he made him look rather inept before getting him at the end of it. Ishant did it over a longer spell however (partly because Flintoff got him early) and at 19 years old looks to be extremely promising.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: TRVYYZ
Posted 2008-01-21 19:22:51 and read 2853 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 52):
Surprise....Ganguly & Dravid Dropped for the ODIs.

Mel, stop blocking trains, for God's sake  Wink
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-n...-fans-block-train-services/263882/

Ganguly’s fans block train services

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-22 08:55:16 and read 2845 times.



Quoting Ag92 (Reply 58):
See I never understood this term "wristy". What does it mean when people say that.

Last moment directional change provided by the wrist to guide the ball to the desired direction via the bat  wink 

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 62):
Mel, stop blocking trains, for God's sake

Im in Mumbai.Currently we are more concerned about the Sensex  Smile

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-22 09:12:04 and read 2839 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 63):
Last moment directional change provided by the wrist to guide the ball to the desired direction via the bat

Concise as ever, Mel.  Wink

Looking forward to the final test then?

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-22 10:13:59 and read 2836 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 61):
Mmm. Gilchrist, certainly but I'm not so sure about Pietersen. He has got that absolutely outrageous "flamingo" shot where he pivots on one foot and flicks the ball through midwicket from about three feet outside off.

Ah, I wouldn't call KP's flamingo shot (I know what youre referring to) 'wristy', strictly speaking. More accurately, perhaps waisty+ankley  Smile Real wristy leg glance play doesn't entail such dramatic body movement. KP's shot appears like a mongrel between a leg glance and Kapil Dev's delightful 'Nataraja shot' as we called it, where he pivots on his right leg with his left leg up with the knee bent, sending the ball in the midwicket/squareleg area.

Quoting Banco (Reply 61):
He doesn't get worked over that often. Flintoff did it in 2005, and there was one over where he made him look rather inept before getting him at the end of it.

I saw that one; rather brief but entertaining. I recall he got a few body blows too. Ishant gave him one in the hip/groin area, and from the angle they showed it, I though 'ooh, that's got to hurt'. In a way it was fun watching it last so long. It isn't every day you see arguably the best contemporary batsman swishing the air repeatedly.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-22 10:27:18 and read 2834 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 65):
Kapil Dev's delightful 'Nataraja shot'

Hah! I remember that one. I used to love watching him bat in that "Oh, great shot, keep going/for God's sake someone get him out" kind way.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 65):
It isn't every day you see arguably the best contemporary batsman swishing the air repeatedly.

Apart from me, obviously.  Wink

Yes, that's why I think this one was a bit different. Credit to Ponting actually for managing to fight through it for so long.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-22 11:05:09 and read 2828 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 64):
Concise as ever, Mel.

Looking forward to the final test then

Its going to be very Interesting.More so if India bowl 4th  wink 

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-23 05:01:01 and read 2812 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 67):
More so if India bowl 4th

Often enough, in hot weather (as forecast), NO-ONE gets to bowl fourth in Adelaide....not with any chance of a result, anyway.

[Edited 2008-01-23 05:02:22]

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-23 05:37:45 and read 2804 times.

Tommorow the next match starts (I think)
Hopefully we can give Australia a run for its money and try and win it to draw the series

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-23 05:44:04 and read 2802 times.

I naturally hope that Aus will win, Ag92.

But, regardless of the result, I still can't WAIT to see the 'main event' - Ponting batting with Sharma bowling at one end and Harbhajan bowling at the other! And I definitely want India to win THAT passage of play.  Smile

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-23 23:47:58 and read 2782 times.

Sachin gets another 100.....2nd in such tests after those 6-7 90s  Smile
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-24 02:19:45 and read 2778 times.

Balanced 1st Day India 309/7
sachin 124*
India will look for 500 to be happy.I think spin will be effective from Day 3.
Lee was good.

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-24 04:19:09 and read 2776 times.

Yes - not just Lee, Clark and Johnson were highly-effective too.

I'd say it was India's day by a fairly narrow margin - not only are Tendulkar and Dhoni still there, but (as I said before) their tail is adept at hanging around and supporting the established batsmen. So 400-plus is still a distinct possibility, if they can weather the new ball.

Quite obvious that Australia are missing Shane Warne - unless MacGill can get himself fit, it's difficult to see where Oz is going to find its next world-class spinner from. Also, those drops by Hayden and Gilchrist were inexplicable - don't often say 'I could have done better myself' but for once I reckon I COULD have done!

I found one angle on the day pathetic - Ponting quite obviously found himself having to bowl the part-time spinners more than was sensible, and delay taking the second new ball, so that he didn't lose a big chunk of his match-fee again for the incredibly-slow over-rate.

Whatever else India has achieved, they've certainly made certain that there will be an extensive post-mortem on all aspects of Australian selection, team organisation, and team conduct after the series. Won't hit the headlines, though. Still remember a comment of Richie Benaud's - "When English teams do badly the selectors tend to reach for an axe. The Australians are more subtle - they prefer to use a stiletto......."

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-24 06:32:48 and read 2770 times.

A touch of the dropsy around. I will bet Kumble hopes it is not catching.

Formidable batting but the bowling looked pretty good most of the day too.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 73):
So 400-plus is still a distinct possibility, if they can weather the new ball.

When will that be due, day 3? Big grin

Missed the last hour and a half as herself took me shopping, but last I heard, they still had a stack of overs to bowl.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-24 07:27:52 and read 2766 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 74):
When will that be due, day 3?

I know what the Indians will try to do tomorrow, Baroque - bat on all day if possible, get about 600, and not have to bat again! And the Aussies will be just as keen to bundle them out quickly and start the (rest of the day and then some) task of getting a lead themselves.

As always with cricket - we don't have any idea which way the chips will fall until the end of the first session tomorrow....or even later.....

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-01-24 07:30:23 and read 2766 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 72):
Balanced 1st Day India 309/7
sachin 124*

hmmm, I thought they were 5 down

I think the match is very equally poised at the moment, and it will be to see how we take it from day two and how long do SR Tendulkar and MS Dhoni last

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-24 18:38:14 and read 2747 times.

India are 405/7 at lunch on day 2. Not bad. Harbhajan and Kumble have put together a 45 run partnership after Tendulkar was dismissed for 153. Hope the tail can hold out until tea.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-24 18:44:50 and read 2746 times.

India 7/405 at lunch. Dhoni and Tendulkar both out quite early on but Kumble and Harbhajan have turned on a fifty stand so far, they're both well into the twenties.

Tendulkar was out 'BK' (Bashed Knee) for 153 (hit one on to his knee, needed a lot of treatment, lost concentration, and skied the very next ball).

India's tail wagging as expected; still RP and Sharma to come. The Aussies are facing their fifth straight session in the field, and it's hot in Adelaide.

Edit PS - Snap! Barfbag!

[Edited 2008-01-24 18:46:17]

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-24 20:26:06 and read 2740 times.

Harbhajan finally goes for 63, after putting on an 8th wicket partnership of 107 with Kumble  Wow!

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-25 00:50:34 and read 2715 times.

India 526 all out (Kumble was the last to go on 87, the 'devil's number'), Aus 62 for no wicket. Already a draw looks the most likely result......

Anyone else enjoy the Nine commentary team's gyrations as much as I did? First they expected India to get wrapped up as soon as Tendulkar was out; then they kept saying 'India's got enough runs,' presumably hoping Kumble could hear them; then they tried psycho-analysing Kumble, and fixed on the idea that he was going for the 'symbolic' 500 total for psychological reasons, and would then declare; and finally, as the total climbed beyond 500, they pretty well ran out of ideas.......

If Kumble hadn't been out right after tea I think they'd have been reduced to praying for rain.......

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-25 02:18:24 and read 2707 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 80):
Anyone else enjoy the Nine commentary team's gyrations as much as I did?

That's exactly the kind of thing I was talking about earlier.  Wink

A draw may be favoured, but a couple of quick wickets for India and it's game on.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: VHVXB
Posted 2008-01-25 02:42:40 and read 2707 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 80):
Already a draw looks the most likely result......

not unless one team falters. 03/04 Australia v India - Australia scored 500+ against India in the first innings and lost the match and 06/07 Australia v England - England scored 500+ against Australia in the first innings and lost the match. On both occasion both teams failed to post a reasonable total in the 3rd innings

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-25 03:01:48 and read 2704 times.



Quoting Ag92 (Reply 76):
hmmm, I thought they were 5 down

My Typo there.

The Tail played well.Now India would try to get Aus out below 350.
India would want to bat 3rd & bat well as history points out.2nd Innings is the key.

Day 3 & turn & bounce might move things.

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: VHVXB
Posted 2008-01-25 16:37:16 and read 2683 times.

India with one less bowler today with RP Singh out with hamstring problems

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-25 18:41:23 and read 2677 times.

Australia were 130 odd for none, and Bill Lawry pipes that Australia are completely on top. What a load of old bollocks! They've played well, but bloody hell, they're still nearly 400 behind! On top?  Yeah sure

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-25 21:17:25 and read 2670 times.

Turning out to be a yawnfest. 225/2 at Tea. Australia are barely sputtering along at 2.8 RPO despite India being a bowler short. They've added just 160 in the first two sessions. Strange. I expected that they'd go aggressively at 4 an over or so. What's going on ?

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-25 21:32:34 and read 2663 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 86):
What's going on ?

They're doing all they need to. If they get close to India's score then all the pressure is on India, and only Australia can realistically win, if India were to collapse.

It's not terribly riveting viewing (I'm debating going to bed  Wink ) but it's fairly sound tactics. I can't imagine for a moment India would enforce the follow on anyway, with the pitch likely to deteriorate over the last two days, so they just need to keep plugging away and hope to bowl them out with a lead of 100 or so by the middle of tomorrow.

First ball after tea - Hussey dropped. Big grin

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-25 22:00:52 and read 2658 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 87):
First ball after tea - Hussey dropped.

Didn't last long after though.
MEK Hussey b Pathan 22 (66b 1x4 0x6) SR: 33.33

Great ball from Pathan!

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-25 22:06:47 and read 2655 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 88):
Great ball from Pathan!

Yes, it was.

Looking at the way it's playing on day 3, Harbhajan and Kumble are going to be a real handful by day 5, so if India can get a decent first innings lead (and the slow progress by Australia might help that) they do have a real chance.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-25 23:41:55 and read 2648 times.



Quoting VHVXB (Reply 84):
India with one less bowler today with RP Singh out with hamstring problems

If bad it could mean 5-6 weeks.hit for the ODIs too.With Sreesanth fit,might be different though.

Quoting Banco (Reply 87):
They're doing all they need to. If they get close to India's score then all the pressure is on India, and only Australia can realistically win, if India were to collapse.

Not if India bats well & Aus collapse on day 5.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-25 23:53:01 and read 2647 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 90):
Not if India bats well & Aus collapse on day 5.

If Australia get up to India's score then for India to win they'd have to bat extremely quickly to give themselves enough time to bowl Australia out. In these circumstances, if the side batting second gets up to parity, they control the game from then on. Chances are, all India would be able to leave Australia would be two sessions.

India need to bowl Australia out by lunchtime tomorrow to have a realistic chance.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: VHVXB
Posted 2008-01-26 00:26:41 and read 2647 times.

News just in Adam Glichrist is retiring from cricket

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-26 04:22:18 and read 2641 times.



Quoting VHVXB (Reply 92):
Adam Gilchrist

A bit sad that but the drops were getting a bit much. Still parts of his game brought a gloss to proceedings that others cannot bring.

3 great balls, 3 wickets and sod all else. Not even a new ball, or not when I gave up at about 95 overs. Mind you some of those LBWs were damned close if the prob was outside off stick.

The Banco/Baroque theory of Hayden invincibility from LB seems to be holding up too!!  Wow!

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-26 09:45:25 and read 2628 times.



Quoting VHVXB (Reply 92):
News just in Adam Glichrist is retiring from cricket

Only tests or both forms of the game.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-27 00:49:29 and read 2607 times.

Looks like a Draw with a day to go.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-27 03:10:24 and read 2603 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 95):
Looks like a Draw with a day to go.
regds
MEL

Ask Banco if he is willing to predict at Adelaide. Still a "nice" last over from Symonds! Until that point, I thought Sehwag had been kidnapped and Chris Tavare was doing a guest spot.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Tsv
Posted 2008-01-27 07:56:27 and read 2594 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 96):
Until that point, I thought Sehwag had been kidnapped and Chris Tavare was doing a guest spot.

That would have to be the front running candidate for "Insult of the Summer".

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-27 12:43:52 and read 2581 times.

I wonder if India would Declare & give Aus a chase.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-27 14:20:59 and read 2579 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 96):
Ask Banco if he is willing to predict at Adelaide.

I said that if Australia got close, I could only see them winning if there was a result. I stand by that.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-28 01:45:54 and read 2562 times.



Quoting Tsv (Reply 97):

Quoting Baroque (Reply 96):
Until that point, I thought Sehwag had been kidnapped and Chris Tavare was doing a guest spot.

That would have to be the front running candidate for "Insult of the Summer".

Turned out that Tavare was guesting for just about everyone except Sehwag. Great knock from him, but what WERE the others doing?

Quoting Banco (Reply 99):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 96):
Ask Banco if he is willing to predict at Adelaide.

I said that if Australia got close, I could only see them winning if there was a result. I stand by that.

Any examination to find that Sehwag is really English? You might need to check. Just one Sehwag would have saved England from the 5 zip bit we hear so much! At least the Indians only have to listen to not having the cup, not 4 zip every time it is mentioned!

The departure of Gilly was quite dignified, but I agree with whoever the commentator was who said he will be a bigger miss than either Warne or McGrath.

Pity he will never be the coach.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-28 03:14:23 and read 2563 times.

A draw to end the series.Now the Bhaji hearing will be interesting.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-28 03:27:34 and read 2562 times.

Sorry my prediction came true:-

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 68):
Often enough, in hot weather (as forecast), NO-ONE gets to bowl fourth in Adelaide....not with any chance of a result, anyway.

I'll try to be less accurate (or at least less of a miserable OB) next time!  Smile

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-28 03:30:33 and read 2560 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 101):
A draw to end the series.Now the Bhaji hearing will be interesting.

Not wrong there. Ravi S has nailed his colours to the mast in no uncertain terms.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-28 20:55:24 and read 2547 times.

Sad to see Gilchrist go. His decision was in keeping with his stance on walking, going when he knows it's time, instead of waiting for murmurs from the audience and polite coughs.

On the match, what were they thinking when they named Sachin the man of the match ?? Sehwag scored more, stood steadfast at openers slot, bowled 20 overs and took two wickets, not to mention, was the primary reason we drew comfortably instead of doing an England.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-29 00:10:06 and read 2539 times.

Finally, some sense prevails:
Harbhajan racism charges dropped
The racism charge against Harbhajan Singh has been dropped and the three-Test ban which was handed out by match referee Mike Procter after the second Test in Sydney has been lifted. The charge against Harbhajan has been reduced from Level 3.3 to Level 2.8, under which he has been fined 50% of his match fees during the appeal hearing in Adelaide.
Even the abusive language charge is daft. Had it been applied on the Australians, they'd probably not make any money at all.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-29 01:40:05 and read 2532 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 105):
Even the abusive language charge is daft

Well, not really. I know where you're coming from on that, but part of the defence was the he called Symonds not a monkey, but something highly abusive instead. They pretty much had to nail him on that one or they'd be giving a free for all in future.

But yes, whether or not the original accusation was true, it seems common sense was prevailed and the case was not proven, thus not guilty.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 104):
instead of doing an England.

Bugger off, you rotten git.  grumpy   Wink

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 104):
Sad to see Gilchrist go.

Indeed. Though I note that all the eulogies about Gilchrist (fully deserved though they are) failed to ever mention a player who it could be argued was actually a better wicketkeeper/batsman - Andy Flower.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-29 02:07:22 and read 2530 times.

Since the Bhaji verdict is out.....Now for the 20-20 match & ODI series.

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-29 02:17:54 and read 2530 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 106):
I know where you're coming from on that, but part of the defence was the he called Symonds not a monkey, but something highly abusive instead.

No, that's rewriting the story. The specific accusation was that Harbhajan called him a monkey, something that was Proctor's literal statement earlier - that he was convinced beyond reasonable doubt that Harbhajan specifically used that word. There's no 'something abusive' case here; the original accusation was very specific as to the word allegedly used. This is nothing more than lame backpeddling and face saving on CA and ICC's part.

This tribunal was no less a kangaroo court than Proctor's ridiculous session earlier. Further, Symonds was recognized to have incited Harbhajan, but was not charged himself. What bullshit. We had to face Australian players blatantly cheating on field, that in hindsight made the difference in a hardfought series between what should have been a honours even and a 2-1 loss, making unproven allegations of specific abusive language for which we get penalized, while those who incited it get away without punishment.

Next time some joker comes around babbling about India dominating cricket decisionmaking I'll smack him with a trout  grumpy  mad 

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-29 02:41:02 and read 2527 times.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 108):
No, that's rewriting the story. The specific accusation was that Harbhajan called him a monkey, something that was Proctor's literal statement earlier

Steady, Barfbag - I'm sure even Solomon had his off-days.  

The BBC cricket site says:-

"The India spinner had been found guilty of calling Symonds, Australia's only mixed-race player, a "monkey" during the second Test in Sydney this month.

"But at an appeal hearing on Tuesday, Harbhajan had his three-match ban lifted and was instead fined half his match fee for offensive behaviour.

"The charge was downgraded to general abuse, governing body the ICC said.

"The racial abuse charges have been dropped," said Niranjan Shah, secretary of the Board of Control for Cricket in India." It is finished.

"The punishment is only for using obscene language."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/7212634.stm

From earlier reports, Harbhajan's defence was that he didn't call Symonds a monkey but instead told him to do something obscene to his mother......that HAS to be abuse, though it's not 'racial' abuse.

Symonds may well have got away with some provocation of his own, but no complaint was laid against him so the judge obviously couldn't make a ruling against him as well.

All in all it's the best available solution to a messy problem. And my guess is that it will make ALL the players, and especially Symonds, either tone things down or do what they should have done in first instance - keep this sort of thing on the field where it belongs.

[Edited 2008-01-29 02:52:29]

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-29 02:44:11 and read 2526 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 108):
No, that's rewriting the story. The specific accusation was that Harbhajan called him a monkey, something that was Proctor's literal statement earlier - that he was convinced beyond reasonable doubt that Harbhajan specifically used that word. There's no 'something abusive' case here; the original accusation was very specific as to the word allegedly used

True. But then it was said that he didn't use that word, he said something else instead, that wasn't racist, but was extremely insulting. Having gone public with that, I don't see what your issue is. He's basically admitted guilt in another area.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 108):
Next time some joker comes around babbling about India dominating cricket decisionmaking I'll smack him with a trout

Nope. But I do think you're now in the realms of whingeing. Sorry.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-29 03:36:08 and read 2517 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 105):
Had it been applied on the Australians, they'd probably not make any money at all.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl  You missed out "ever" make any money. But I get the feeling that these days they have company.

Quoting Banco (Reply 106):
a player who it could be argued was actually a better wicketkeeper/batsman - Andy Flower.

Well you see the Z has fallen off all our trypewriters due to constant lack of use.

As to who said what. I would like to see a PPI of the oval through the sequence annotated to show Harby giving Lee an pat, and showing where Pup, Punter ?Hayden and whoever else were so they were able to hear what was said, while the (apparently) deaf Tendulkar heard, well what DID he hear?

A mystery wrapped in an enigma. Symonds does seem a bit precious to me. I know getting blown up by Terry Wrist and the boys is not an enviable fate, I just wonder why he seems always to be first out of the box to say he won't go to Sri Lanka, Pakistan, presumably London, pick your fave spot for Terry Wrists. I wonder if he has ever been to Cronulla!!  duck 

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-29 09:21:47 and read 2504 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 110):
True. But then it was said that he didn't use that word, he said something else instead, that wasn't racist, but was extremely insulting. Having gone public with that, I don't see what your issue is. He's basically admitted guilt in another area.

The issue is that it even caused him to be punished, or that the tribunal *had* to find cause for punishment when the specific original accusation could not be backed up with evidence. It constitutes Harbhajan being penalized for a crime he wasn't even originally charged for, nor what the tribunal was listening to an appeal against - it was nothing more than dealmaking to save face and make it appear that something was accomplished. The result amounts to just 'do something' by ICC/CA, and reflects on BCCI's inability to stand up for itself and its players. Ergo, suggestions that the BCCI is all powerful is overblown.

I'm disappointed that this tribunal went beyond its mandate of hearing the appeal against the original verdict, to trumping up new ones. The Indian side should have been more steadfast than this, at minimum, restating abusive language accusations against Hogg, and framing fresh ones at every Australian player they happened to have heard during the series, since the use of abusive language is a punishable crime now. That's quite simply what has happened to Harbhajan - when the original accusation no longer held water, something else was trumped up at the close of the appellate tribunal.

Does anyone seriously think Harbhajan was the only one who resorted to abusive language in the incident ?  Yeah sure

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-29 09:36:56 and read 2502 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 112):
Does anyone seriously think Harbhajan was the only one who resorted to abusive language in the incident ?

No, not at all. And had he not initially been charged, I'm sure it wouldn't have gone anywhere with what he admitted, not least because he wouldn't have admitted it. But you're dealing with reality here.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 112):
Ergo, suggestions that the BCCI is all powerful is overblown.

No, I don't think that follows. The BCCI's threat to take their toys home was undoubtedly a powerful issue. To play devil's advocate, you could make a good case for saying that he was only acquitted because of the BCCI's attitude. Personally I don't believe or agree with that, but the alternate point can be argued.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-29 11:29:18 and read 2494 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 113):
And had he not initially been charged, I'm sure it wouldn't have gone anywhere with what he admitted, not least because he wouldn't have admitted it. But you're dealing with reality here.

Well, it's a rather convulted reality then. I wasn't aware the appellate tribunal had any authority to impose alternate punishment, but merely determine the legal aspects of the original - now unproven - accusation. What a ridiculous CYA act.

Quoting Banco (Reply 113):
The BCCI's threat to take their toys home was undoubtedly a powerful issue.

I completely support the BCCIs stance. Perhaps you'd rather not see the ECB act in that manner, and you've pointed out the case of England-Zimbabwe, but that is a separate political issue. Someone needs to stand up against ICCs incompetent handling of the game. The BCCI would never have taken a hardline position if Harbhajan had not been incriminated wrongly.

Some of the Aussie press articles since the revocation of Harbhajan's verdict are laughable. 'Unnamed' players seething at 'India's money power' and referring to how money talks. Yes indeed it does, and they've shown that they listen when it talks. If it really were the case of money winning out, then it is clear it is their integrity that is denominated in Rupees.

NAV20: Equating Proctor to King Solomon is a bit of a stretch, n'est ce pas ? Solomon would probably have been a lot better on his off days  Smile

By the way, what's the deal with Shaun Tait abruptly retiring as well ? Sure he had a nightmare match against us at Perth, but he's doing a Trescothick here. Has he been so fragile in the past ? Seems like something a pacer would rather not let his opponents know about him. I can just imagine someone like Pietersen taking him apart in future if he returns.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-29 13:20:30 and read 2486 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 114):
I completely support the BCCIs stance

It wasn't there a question of whether they were right or wrong. To that extent it's a side issue. It is simply a statement of fact that their threat is a powerful one.

I'm not railing against India's position as the major power in the game. They simply are, because of the weight of their financial clout. That's going to get stronger, not weaker, and to jump up and down and shout "unfair" would be simply pointless. I merely would hope, and would wish to encourage for India to look after the interests of the game ahead of their own needs, that's all.

Here's a very good article by Mike Atherton about the ICL, 20/20 and India's dominance:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai...ml=/sport/2008/01/27/scmike127.xml

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-29 16:43:55 and read 2480 times.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 114):
I wasn't aware the appellate tribunal had any authority to impose alternate punishment, but merely determine the legal aspects of the original - now unproven - accusation. What a ridiculous CYA act.

That's a very suspect view in quasi-legal terms, Barfbag - if only because Harby apparently pleaded guilty to 'abuse,' just not 'racial abuse' - and indeed probably did that at the earlier hearing too. On that basis the appeal judge was perfectly correct in taking the plea into account.

Anyway, it looks as if the row will go on simmering. The 'Australian' newspaper has full coverage today, the Australian players clearly feel hard done by. Among other things there's a video clip/transcript that purports to be 'what was said;' but in fact turns out only to contain 'what the Australians said.'

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/

Maybe there's a 'third way' as far as the debate on here is concerned. I have always felt that Symonds' current appearance (the dreadlocks combined with the excessive zinc round the mouth) offends against the spirit of the game. At any rate, it offends me as a spectator; as does the increasing amount of excessively-long and untidy hair among fast-medium bowlers like Sidebottom.

I feel perfectly entitled to say that without being accused of racism as Symonds is an Anglo-Australian like me. Moreover, if you brought down the proverbial 'man from Mars' to assess the appearance on the field which Symonds himself deliberately cultivates - or even just asked a small child what he or she thought - you might well get the reaction that 'he looks like a monkey.'

So in my view calling him a 'monkey' need not necessarily be racist at all. Any more than calling Sidebottom a 'girl' would be sexist.

[Edited 2008-01-29 17:16:08]

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: StealthZ
Posted 2008-01-29 17:25:26 and read 2473 times.

Sorry BarfBag, I have no sympathy for your countries position on this appeal.

Threatening to withdraw from a series or tour for any number of reasons eg security, commercial, political is likey acceptable.
Having chartered jets on standby to whip your team away and abandoning a tour if the sports judicial process does not suit you, that is unacceptable behaviour.
India is trying to present itself as a mature and influential member of the world community, yet the BCCI throw their weight around like a spoilt brat that has had their toys taken away.
Grow up BCCI!!

I am not commenting on the merits of the case or who was right or wrong. That is immaterial, threatening the judicial process because you are a big bully is the issue.

Cheers

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-29 17:41:42 and read 2472 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 115):
I merely would hope, and would wish to encourage for India to look after the interests of the game ahead of their own needs, that's all.

I'm going to call this one out. Tell me, *how* is it 'in the interests of the game' for a player to be penalized for something he not only strenuously denied, but something the accusers could not prove ? That will not stand. We used our power to ensure that one of our players does not suffer because the ICCs system is broken. The more the ICC insists on being thickheaded in its behavior, the more arsenal we'll bring to bear.

I read Atherton's article earlier - it was linked off Cricinfo. Pretty well written. The ICL/IPL will cause problems when non-regulars start to pressure their national boards to be permitted to play in the league, as a means to secure their own financial security, in the absence of a regular contract with the board. The two T20 leagues are not just going to be a watering hole for the newly retired.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 116):
The 'Australian' newspaper has full coverage today, the Australian players clearly feel hard done by. Among other things there's a video clip/transcript that purports to be 'what was said;' but in fact turns out only to contain 'what the Australians said.'

I never quite liked Peter Lalor's articles. He comes across as patronising and portrays a one-sided view of things. I'll take Roebuck or Craddock over him any day. Even in The Australian, the only person whose prose I've read regularly is Greg Sheridan, but he covers current affairs, not sports.

It's rather interesting from my perspective that the only people in the incident whom I genuinely respect as well-behaved and honourable individuals - Sachin Tendulkar, Brett Lee and Adam Gilchrist - have all had nothing to corroborate. Ponting and Clarke are talented sportsmen, but I do not have that additional level of respect for them.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 117):
Threatening to withdraw from a series or tour for any number of reasons eg security, commercial, political is likey acceptable.

Sorry, that's merely selective justification. We just chose to add unsubstantiated slander to that list. If you dish it out on the cricket field, expect to get it back. Don't go whining about it, and don't salami slice offensive vs racist language; there are far too many cultural subtleties that come in the way. Australia gambled when it upped the ante on this controversy, and it lost.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: StealthZ
Posted 2008-01-29 17:46:31 and read 2469 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 118):
Sorry, that's merely selective justification. We just chose to add unsubstantiated slander to that list.

OK withdraw and take your bat & ball home for "unsubstantiated slander" that is fine.

DON'T use you muscle to threaten the judicial process that is what you did.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-29 17:58:52 and read 2468 times.



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 119):
DON'T use you muscle to threaten the judicial process that is what you did.

That's a perfectly meaningful demand, as long as the process is open, transparent and works. But it was not. The system is broken. We're not going to suffer for it.
* The Proctor tribunal was closed, and came up with patently unsupportable conclusions, as the appeal showed. As press articles later indicated, he essentially took the Australians' word.
* The red herring of stump mike evidence was suddenly brought up a day before the appeal, which, as NAV20 indicated, had little more than Australians talking. The only mention by Harbhajan had him stating that Symonds started it, with nothing further as to what either of them said.
* The end result was a half-baked compromise that amounted to Harbhajan pleading to a 'crime' that half the typical Aussie side would be guilty of in every single match they play.

The whole thing was daft. There's have been no need for us to be heavyhanded if the ICC process was remotely competent.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: StealthZ
Posted 2008-01-29 18:47:28 and read 2457 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 120):
That's a perfectly meaningful demand, as long as the process is open, transparent and works. But it was not. The system is broken.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 120):
The whole thing was daft. There's have been no need for us to be heavyhanded if the ICC process was remotely competent.

You maybe right on both counts but use the undoubted influence the BCCI has to work for change within the ICC judicial process, I have no argument with that.
Acting like a petulant bully is not the right answer.

Now you know your strong arm tactics work, where will this stop?

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-29 20:55:37 and read 2447 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 118):
I'll take Roebuck or Craddock over him any day.

Had to smile when I read that, Barfbag. Here's Peter Roebuck's take on the situation - headlined "India's behaviour was an abomination".  Smile

"If this is the way the Indian board intends to conduct its affairs hereafter, then God help cricket. It is high time the elders of the game in that proud country stopped playing to the gallery and considered the game's wider interests. India is not some tinpot dictatorship but an international powerhouse and ought to think and act accordingly. Brinkmanship or not, threatening to take its bat and ball home in the event of a resented verdict being allowed to stand was an abomination.'

He follows through with a pretty good summary of the facts (and lessons) of the case, particularly the judgment on appeal:-

"Inevitably, Harbhajan Singh's appeal was successful. Simply, there was not enough proof to justify a conviction. It does not matter what anyone thinks may have happened. Court cases are about fact, not stories or opinions or allegations or interpretations or guesses. Once the microphones and umpires did not back up the charges, the case was doomed. That does not make Harbhajan a hero. It is high time his senior players took him in hand. He has become a hot-head with an unpleasant tongue. Far from seeking revenge, the Australians should have treated him with derision. The Australians have been driven by rage and not reason, a rage that ruined a match and imperilled a series. Harbhajan is not worth half as much. Nor is it wise to ignore Australia's reputation as champion sledger."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/cricke...tion/2008/01/29/1201369135506.html

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-29 21:23:01 and read 2448 times.



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 121):
You maybe right on both counts but use the undoubted influence the BCCI has to work for change within the ICC judicial process, I have no argument with that.

This entire episode constitutes an effort to change the process. There's no 'excuse me sir, would you please change this rule' option available. Adverse publicity, controversy and scrutiny alone can serve as catalysts for change. But typically, anything that BCCI does is viewed with suspicion, or treated as self-aggrandizing. All they did is solidly stand behind their player. It's their job to do so. It's no different from the Sri Lankans backing Murali.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-29 21:33:35 and read 2446 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 122):
Had to smile when I read that, Barfbag. Here's Peter Roebuck's take on the situation - headlined "India's behaviour was an abomination".

Already read that one, NAV  Smile You get my intentions wrong - I'm not looking for Australian yes-men. I just mentioned two writers whose work I find readable; I don't have to agree with them, nor do they have to write anything specifically pro-India. I just find Lalor grating and supercilious, while Craddock or Roebuck are nowhere close to being so unpleasant to read.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-29 23:49:58 and read 2433 times.

So now that Bhaji has been found guilty for Abuse,will that mean the comming days the AUS cricketer will need to face similiar chargesby the Indians before the ODI series  Smile
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: VH-KCT*
Posted 2008-01-30 00:09:52 and read 2438 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 123):
All they did is solidly stand behind their player.

Err they did a little more than that. They strong-armed the administering authority and their hosts into a decision that suited them and them alone. They flew their players from Melbourne to Adelaide so that they could prove that if they did not like the decision, they would jump on their charted plane and go home leaving CA to clean up the financial mess. In my book, that's fixing the results.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 123):
anything that BCCI does is viewed with suspicion, or treated as self-aggrandizing.

'change your decision or we're going home', 'we're the only team playing within the spirit of the game', 'it's a matter of national honour' ... well that'd be why people think it's all about self-aggrandising

Also I notice the spitting incident has been overlooked. Imagine Michael Clarke spitting at an Indian after the 2nd test; they would have left in an instant and vowed to never come back to Australia.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-30 00:35:41 and read 2435 times.



Quoting VH-KCT* (Reply 126):
They strong-armed the administering authority and their hosts into a decision that suited them and them alone.

We absolutely intended to do what it took to ensure that Harbhajan was acquitted of those trumped up racism charges. If that suited us alone, so be it. What are you complaining about ? There was no evidence, no proof. What would you rather we did ? Cop it so as not to rock the boat ? No chance. Besides it wasn't entirely in our favour - Singh did get docked 50% of his fee for 'abusive language' - a ludicruous face-saving act on the part of the tribunal.

Instead of complaining about the means we pursued to achieve this, you ought to think why we had to go so far to exonerate him. If you had *any* sort of corroborative proof, you'd actually have a leg to stand on. But the reality is, there's nothing to back it up - just one person's word against another's. Yet, it took us this much effort to clear Singh's name. The ICC system is so broken that it took this much effort to achieve something so absolutely elementary in judicial terms. It does not matter how much you trust your own team; hearsay is not evidence.

It seems quite fashionable to dump on the BCCI. They've almost become the cricketing version of some sinister, detested covert intelligence agency. Yet, no one cares for the fact that we ensured a player would not be indicted on an unproven charge. Justice, it seems, does not matter. It's more a matter of following the procedure as it was, never mind if the procedure is a pile of crap. And of course, piling it on the big bad BCCI  Yeah sure

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-30 01:52:40 and read 2429 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 118):
It's rather interesting from my perspective that the only people in the incident whom I genuinely respect as well-behaved and honourable individuals - Sachin Tendulkar, Brett Lee and Adam Gilchrist - have all had nothing to corroborate. Ponting and Clarke are talented sportsmen, but I do not have that additional level of respect for them.

Fair point. As I wrote earlier, I woud like to see a series of maps showing who was where when "what" was allegedly said.

I do get the feeling that once (presumably) Symonds complained, it was pack Aus v Harbhajan. Ponting might have been following the letter of the agreement, but half a brain would have suggested that making a formal complaint would be at best a problem and making a formal complaint that was going to be a "he says, I said" argument was going to be a lot worse than a problem.

I do think that BB has a point that had Lee or Gilchrist been involved it might have had more weight.

It also suggests to me that Pup should never be Aus captain. And I go back to Roebuck's first thought, Aus would be better with Ponting removed from the Captaincy. Now Gilly has gone, the most promising looks to be Hussey, although the other Clark would probably be a sensible choice bearing in mind that bowlers are hopeless at being skipper (that is a joke!!).

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 119):
OK withdraw and take your bat & ball home for "unsubstantiated slander" that is fine.

DON'T use you muscle to threaten the judicial process that is what you did.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 120):

The whole thing was daft. There's have been no need for us to be heavyhanded if the ICC process was remotely competent.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 125):
So now that Bhaji has been found guilty for Abuse,will that mean the comming days the AUS cricketer will need to face similiar chargesby the Indians before the ODI series

Muscle, a fair point Stealth except that with the Aus team doing a fair imitation of hunting like a pack, you have to ask who was applying most muscle.

And of course another point about muscle. If you know one of the parties carries a bigger stick, then it is really really silly to start a stick fight!

Classifying insults is a damned stupid occupation. How long should Healy have been out for for the famous Ranatunga sledge.

It may well be the case that other teams have learned rapidly the game of insult an opponent and if you cannot get them out by your own skill, then psych them out, but the pre-eminence of Aus in that field of operations has made it such that even IF they had a valid complaint, it was always going to look hollow. It is by no means clear that there was a valid complaint.

As I said a long while ago, if Harby swore or insulted Symonds in English that was stupid, do it in Hindi.

I still wonder if Harbhajan is not going to complain in the longer run that he was railroaded into an admission. When matters are more distant, I suspect he is still going to feel he has been hardly done by.

And in the end, there is another rule, hosts should not complain about their guests. That should have overridden all the other nonsense.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: TSV
Posted 2008-01-30 04:55:03 and read 2419 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 128):
I suspect he is still going to feel he has been hardly done by.

I very much doubt it. I would say given that this is his third time he will be heading for the nearest Lottery ticket office.

His biggest concern should be Sunday given the Gabba crowd (even if there is no hill left) when he comes on to bowl and the inevitable initial boos, jeers, and then chants of :

"Bhaji's a WANKER!" clap clap clap etc (reminisent of what Hadlee copped years ago).

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-30 05:26:40 and read 2416 times.



Quoting TSV (Reply 129):
"Bhaji's a WANKER!"

They do that to every side though. Nothing new there. Not very creative really, but what can you expect from Queenslanders?  duck 

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-30 05:40:59 and read 2414 times.



Quoting Banco (Reply 130):
They do that to every side though. Nothing new there. Not very creative really, but what can you expect from Queenslanders?

The least they could do is to change to Bhaji is a Pajero.  Wow!  Wow!  Wow!

More to the point, a Bajai just a bit NW of here is a quaint three wheeled two stroke taxi.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-30 05:41:13 and read 2414 times.

I STILL think that the best bit of Aussie barracking ever was when the England captain, Jardine, brushed away a fly in the 'bodyline' series in the 1930s. And some wag called out, "Here, Jardine, you leave our bloody flies alone!"

Regrettably, that high standard is seldom if ever achieved these days......

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Banco
Posted 2008-01-30 05:43:40 and read 2415 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 132):
Regrettably, that high standard is seldom if ever achieved these days......

The most heart-felt must be the England fans of 2005 in the fifth test singing "We only wish you were English" to Shane Warne, which is rather better than "Get your shit stars off our flag" which is more customary.  Wink

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-30 06:02:42 and read 2411 times.

A fair few Australians almost wish he was English too, Banco. His behaviour off-field didn't (doesn't) please a lot of people in Melbourne.

My eldest son wouldn't agree, though. As a junior at Mentone Grammar he found himself playing against the much older 'Shine' in a house match. Not only did he take five runs off Warne's bowling, when his turn came to bowl he got him out. They're still friends - but I think he'll always reckon that Warne, at bottom, is just a talented school cricketer who 'got lucky.'

My younger son is no fan, though. Not Warne's fault - when he arrived at the same school he did well with his left-arm fast-medium in his first two seasons, but then found himself being coached by the teacher who had 'discovered' Warne - who obviously lived in hope of uncovering ANOTHER such prodigy. From that time on, my younger guy got about two overs as opening bowler and then spent the rest of the day chasing leather as a succession of 'favoured' wannabee leg-spinners (most of whom stopped turning the ball at ALL after about four deliveries) got carted all round the park........

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: TSV
Posted 2008-01-30 06:28:40 and read 2407 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 134):
coached

Yeah "Coaches" are interesting aren't they? I well remember as a youngster (at Gill Park no less where Symonds spent many a day years later) being given a go in the bowling "attack" when the opposition was about 2 for a hundred and something after our main bowlers hadn't made much of an impact and the team we were playing had a couple of very big scorers (let alone well known big hitters!) yet to come in. I managed to take 3 for 5 in three overs and was then promptly taken off by our Coach for bowling a short ball. I can't recall how much they ended up making but it must have been around the two hundred mark. Needless to say I had to make do with remaining an opening "batsman" (and one that made Bill Lawrie look like Adam Gilchrist) from then on ... (at least in the Juniors anyway).

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-30 13:15:41 and read 2383 times.

With Sreesanth Joining the ODI team.....Things are going to get more Interesting  wink 
regds
MEL

Topic: India In Australia - (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-30 17:30:35 and read 2374 times.

Interesting.

Governer General and Neil Harvey both think that the sledging in not acceptable.

The Judge seems not to have been properly briefed. He insists that the evidence about Harbhajan was not - well - evidence. So I am not sure if there was no evidence of an offense this time why there is now a call for Harby's earlier offenses to be taken into account. Just because someone makes an accusation that cannot be substantiated, it does not mean you are now doubly guilty of all previous offenses.

And Ponting. Well those who criticise him just dont understand modern professional cricket. Yes, well that might be true. Do we want to understand it in his terms and will we accept it in his terms? He might want to think a bit more about that. And he might want to take his attitude back to when he was run out, ?Old Trafford by some ring-in who could field that England had the nerve to put on the field. You do have a history Mr P, just as Harby seems to have.

Read about most of it in :
http://www.smh.com.au/

The GG's speech is facing the Editorial, centre page.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: TSV
Posted 2008-01-30 18:59:22 and read 2364 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 137):
The Judge seems not to have been properly briefed.

This episode just seems to stumble from one stuffup to another :

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=373450

Reading

"That could still have seen Harbhajan incur a one Test ban due to his list of prior offences but Hansen was not made aware of three past indiscretions until it was too late.

Justice Hansen said on Wednesday that after learning that Harbajhan had a suspended one Test ban on his record he considered reviewing his decision to fine him but concluded he couldn't do so.

The Indian spinner could count himself lucky he benefited from "these database and human errors", he said."

and

"Speed acknowledged the ICC had been at fault.

"It is very unfortunate that human error led to Justice Hansen not having the full history of Harbhajan's previous Code of Conduct breaches and the ICC accepts responsibility for this mistake," Speed said in a written statement."

you can't help but be cynical and believe the "oversight" was deliberate as if it had been procedurally applied Harbhajan would have been suspended for one match and India would have had to make good on their threat and taken their bats and balls and gone home.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-30 21:18:34 and read 2357 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 137):
And Ponting. Well those who criticise him just dont understand modern professional cricket. Yes, well that might be true.

I think that probably most of us 'understand' it, baroque. Doesn't mean we have to LIKE it....

Some sad paragraphs in The Age's report of the judge's remarks:-

"The judge also declared Symonds the aggressor in the SCG affair, and chastised him for telling the hearing that "a Test match is no place to be friendly to an opposition player".

"He was particularly perturbed that Symonds started the dispute in response in response to Harbhajan patting Brett Lee on the backside to acknowledge what the judge described as "an excellent yorker". He said Symonds responded with "provocative abuse", swearing and telling Harbhajan he had no friends among the Australians.

"In response to Symonds telling the hearing that a Test match was "no place to be friendly", the judge said: "If that is his view, I hope it is not shared by all international cricketers. It would be a sad day for cricket if it is."


http://www.theage.com.au/news/cricke...ngle/2008/01/30/1201369229140.html

I expect that we've all done that in our time - waved a hand or said 'Well bowled" to an opposition bowler in response to a good delivery - even if (as was usual in my case!) it had got you out. It is (or used to be) part of the game, and as natural as breathing.

Please forgive the language - but if Symonds really thinks that such instinctive sporting courtesies are a reason for sledging, he's a bastard. Who, IMO, has no place on a cricket field, at ANY level.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-30 21:43:40 and read 2355 times.



Quoting TSV (Reply 138):
you can't help but be cynical and believe the "oversight" was deliberate as if it had been procedurally applied Harbhajan would have been suspended for one match and India would have had to make good on their threat and taken their bats and balls and gone home.

Cynicism cuts both ways. Ponting and co were doubtless aware during the Proctor tribunal that their case was based on hearsay, yet did not back down until forced into a corner during the Hansen appeal. Baroque already alluded to the need to think through the consequences of filing an official complaint, in particular the need for evidence. It wouldn't be a stretch to consider that Ponting tried to game the system through a combination of bluster and affected indignation. And to make matters worse, the Indian board is criticized for sparing no effort to ensure that a basic tenet of jurisprudence is served - that you cannot be convicted without proof.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 139):
Please forgive the language - but if Symonds really thinks that such instinctive sporting courtesies are a reason for sledging...

Absolutely. With that single public utterance on his part, Symonds comes across as an utterly graceless imbecile. To think this entire episode started with him giving Harbhajan a mouthful because the latter had the temerity to give Brett Lee a perfectly normal gesture of appreciation on a ball well bowled  Yeah sure

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-30 21:57:22 and read 2355 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 140):
It wouldn't be a stretch to consider that Ponting tried to game the system through a combination of bluster and affected indignation.

Being a cynic, Barfbag, I DO wonder if it crossed Ponting's mind that maybe there were other ways of avoiding facing the guy who was making a habit of getting you out first ball, other than bashing a desperate quick single to get the other guy to the danger end for a while....  Smile

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-30 23:55:35 and read 2344 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 139):
Please forgive the language - but if Symonds really thinks that such instinctive sporting courtesies are a reason for sledging, he's a bastard. Who, IMO, has no place on a cricket field, at ANY level.

Ooops Nav, the decision has come down, suspended for three posts for reflections on ancestry!! We know your English heritage so no coming the raw prawn during the appeal with that word being a term of endearment, we can sense the thin lips through which it was typed.  Wow!  Smile  yes 

I have thought a bit about whether I don't like modern cricket in the Symmering-Punting version, or that I don't understand it. I understand it to the point where I can see it is totally self-defeating, at which point I stop understanding it again. Maybe there are crowds that will come to a blood sport, but I think that even now Kerry Packer has gone to Gowings (Sydney term for being dead) the owners of the TV stations are not going to accept it. Nor will many of the richer sponsors and that is where their money comes from. So on balance I think I don't understand.

It appears from Ponting' statement he does not understand that after Harbhajan reads the bit on Symonds starting it, IF Harby is half as bad as he has been made out to be, he will feel blameless.

"Who started it?" "Not me".

"Who was really at fault?" "Not me".

I just hope that Harby does take the hint. He should continues to pat Bing on the tail for a good delivery and even though not a Parsee "sit in his palm- tree wearing his hat, from which the rays of the sun are reflected in more-than-oriental splendour" when given a bath by Symonds and perhaps Symonds will gain a skin like a rhinoceras - if he has not got one already.
http://www.boop.org/jan/justso/rhino.htm

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-31 03:08:06 and read 2324 times.

Symonds reply seems confusing.......To him too the next morning I guess  Smile

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-01-31 05:04:48 and read 2312 times.

Maybe this courtesy thing can be overdone, though. And sometimes it works in reverse - as with a certain legendary England quick:-

"And when a Cambridge University student he had just bowled said, "That was a very good ball, Mr Trueman", he responded with "Aye, f*****g wasted on thee."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/4770025.stm

Accurately reported by the BBC except that, for obvious reasons, they left out Trueman's favourite adjective......  

[Edited 2008-01-31 05:05:30]

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-01-31 05:43:15 and read 2308 times.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 144):
Maybe this courtesy thing can be overdone, though. And sometimes it works in reverse - as with a certain legendary England quick:-

Perhaps the most relevant bit is at the end:
"I'm happy that I played cricket at the time that I did. People enjoyed the game then,"

One of the England openers of that era still thought that even then the game was taken too seriously and retired largely for that reason. He commented that Statham was a great deal easier to face than Trueman, because not even Freddie knew what he was going to bowl.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-01-31 08:39:47 and read 2303 times.

So the T20 match is tommorrow.Interesting view.
any predictions.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: TSV
Posted 2008-01-31 08:55:24 and read 2303 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 140):
Cynicism cuts both ways. Ponting and co were doubtless aware during the Proctor tribunal that their case was based on hearsay, yet did not back down until forced into a corner during the Hansen appeal. Baroque already alluded to the need to think through the consequences of filing an official complaint, in particular the need for evidence. It wouldn't be a stretch to consider that Ponting tried to game the system through a combination of bluster and affected indignation. And to make matters worse, the Indian board is criticized for sparing no effort to ensure that a basic tenet of jurisprudence is served - that you cannot be convicted without proof.

So what are you saying? That it was up to "Ponting and Co" to PROVIDE evidence OUTSIDE of statements/testimony? Given that they know they are being "watched" I'm quite sure they would have thought that it had been captured for all to hear/see at the appropriate time.

So what did he say then? Monkey? Mother F*****? Nothing? The only way to really diffuse this would have been for Harbhajan to publicly clearly state what he said either verbally or via a written statement. If he is innocent (of everything as you claim) then he should have no problem clearly stating exactly that. He ain't no angel I'm afraid.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 139):
Please forgive the language - but if Symonds really thinks that such instinctive sporting courtesies are a reason for sledging, he's a bastard. Who, IMO, has no place on a cricket field, at ANY level.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 140):
Absolutely. With that single public utterance on his part, Symonds comes across as an utterly graceless imbecile.

Well you are both wrong. If you have ever seen Symonds work with kids and his nature in general you would know that what you are saying is absolute bullshit. Put yourself in his (Symonds) shoes : the other guy gets away with racially vilifying him on his home turf backed up by a mob of his (insert whatever adjective you like) countrymen without any regret or repercussions and then makes a seemingly "sporting" (but knowingly hollow as a termite ridden tree) gesture to one of his own team mates (who is obviously deliberately quite on these issues given his involvement with things like Bollywood) in an emotionally charged atmosphere. Of course he is going to be outraged and give him a mouthful. If that mouthful overstepped the mark then let due process take over - it happens in every other professional sport. It is not an excuse or an opening for the other guy to come back with more racial vilification. Given what Harbhajan got away with in India and now here if he thinks that showing some sort of "sporting" "courtesy" makes up for Racial Vilification - well - he's sadly mistaken.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-01-31 09:27:35 and read 2298 times.



Quoting TSV (Reply 147):
So what are you saying? That it was up to "Ponting and Co" to PROVIDE evidence OUTSIDE of statements/testimony?

He'd have been well aware by the Proctor tribunal that his position was not backed up by sufficient proof, and that it would not have held up during the appeal. Convictions are made based upon facts, not the stridency of the accuser. Ergo he should have dropped the whole thing himself, rather than having the CA and his legal counsel force him to do so.

Quoting TSV (Reply 147):
Put yourself in his (Symonds) shoes : the other guy gets away with racially vilifying him on his home turf backed up by a mob of his (insert whatever adjective you like) countrymen...

You've got your facts wrong. Harbhajan didn't 'get away' with calling Symonds a monkey in India. The two spoke to each other, and Symonds explained that it is a term he found particularly offensive given his origins and background. Harbhajan stated he would not use it again. That much is on the Hansen report, as well as Prem Panicker's original press article.

Quoting TSV (Reply 147):
Of course he is going to be outraged and give him a mouthful. If that mouthful overstepped the mark then let due process take over -

What's he outraged about ? He's not even certain he was called a monkey, having admitted he could just have misheared Harbhajan tell him 'piss off, mofo' in Hindi. Don't you see ? Harbhajan is on the dock for saying something stupid in the heat of argument, and you want Symonds to be given consideration for the same ? Hell no. He deserves every bit of criticism from NAV, me and anyone else. He's a grownup, not a child. He's responsible for his words and actions, never mind if he plays with little kids. He doesn't have leeway of the sort you imply - the law doesn't permit you to shoot off your mouth - or a gun - because you don't like the verdict.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-02-01 02:25:21 and read 2287 times.

Guess the Wicket seems to forbid stokeplay.India might just loose their 2nd ever T20 game.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ryan h
Posted 2008-02-01 03:02:24 and read 2278 times.

India fell apart in the T20 game played at the MCG.

I was expecting them to give Australia more resistance, but there was none.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-02-01 04:08:23 and read 2271 times.

That was boring was it not?

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-02-01 07:55:55 and read 2261 times.

Embarrassing loss, my dad was up for a rude shock when he landed in Delhi, as the T20 match took place during his flight

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-02-01 08:39:49 and read 2258 times.

I guess getting players straight from India directly to Australia & playing a T20 match with no time to settle to the conditions was the culprit.
The ball was stopping & comming on to the bat & the Indians were getting out playing too early.

Boring game.

Hopefully they get used to the pitches before the ODIs.

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-02-01 10:22:55 and read 2256 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 153):
I guess getting players straight from India directly to Australia & playing a T20 match with no time to settle to the conditions was the culprit.

That and the fact there was a little guy watching from the sidelines, er I think his name was Tendulkar.

India seem to have studied what England did wrong last year, and then done more or less the same. No preparation, bad selection, at least for the tests. And what team does not need Tendulkar?

Oh well, off to the home for the permanently bewildered, I expect to find a few Indians there too!! Big grin

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-02-02 01:45:47 and read 2249 times.

Hopefully the ODIs will choose guys that have settled to the conditions well.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: VHVXB
Posted 2008-02-02 06:25:51 and read 2239 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 153):
Hopefully they get used to the pitches before the ODIs.

hmm makes me wonder whether it was right decision to drop Dravid and Ganguly  scratchchin 

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-02-02 09:16:17 and read 2233 times.



Quoting VHVXB (Reply 156):
hmm makes me wonder whether it was right decision to drop Dravid and Ganguly

Was wondering same too.Good Fielders can't win matches on their fielding alone.The batsmen need to score first.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-02-02 10:16:40 and read 2231 times.

Ah well, we got our asses handed to us this time  Smile

Baroque: putting Sachin through the T20 grind is a bad idea. It's better to preserve him for tests. We won the T20 World Cup without Tendulkar, Ganguly or Dravid. We just happened to be pretty undercooked yesterday, plus props to Australia for keeping their eyes on the ball at the same time. It's better if the youngsters play the shorter formats. At the same time, I'd like to see us preserves someone like Ishant primarily for tests. Too good a talent to be wasted on the ODI/T20 grind - he will break down soon enough if he plays too many of them.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-02-02 21:39:54 and read 2220 times.

Uttappa,yuvraj,dhoni,gambhir,kartik all capable youngsters,they need to get adjusted to the tracks there.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-02-03 04:53:56 and read 2208 times.



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 158):
At the same time, I'd like to see us preserves someone like Ishant primarily for tests.

Close to unplayable tonight when he could keep his feet. Then Srees did for Ponting rather unceremoniously.

Tendulkar does find some interesting ways to get out while in Aus.

Nice to see Gilly walk near his twilight hour - not that he was ever going to change.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2008-02-03 18:25:10 and read 2185 times.

Interesting Match.Pity about the rain.

I think the Indian Batting needs to get tuned fast.

regds
MEL

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: NAV20
Posted 2008-02-03 19:50:00 and read 2182 times.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 161):
I think the Indian Batting needs to get tuned fast.

I thought, watching it, that the new young Indian batsmen were highly-gifted - but that they had never before faced bowling quite as fast (and accurate) as that served up by Lee and Johnson. Lee in particular gave them a nonstop diet of 'You Miss, I Hit.' On the other hand the Australians found the Indian swing bowling - and particularly the aggression of Sreesanth - pretty unexpected and troubling too.

The other highlight, to my mind, was the (by their normal standards) truly awful Australian catching. It's quite clear that both Hayden and Ponting being injured leaves Australia very short of experienced 'slippers.'

So in a odd way the sides are 'in balance' - both of them feeling their way with a lot of newcomers who need to settle down and get used to the 'big match' atmosphere in a hurry.

The match was ruined by rain anyway - but there were a lot of 'what ifs.' What if India had chosen to bowl first instead of bat, for instance? Australia's batting order doesn't appear to have quite the depth of India's, on the face of it. And of course, what if Tendulkar hadn't got out so early in such a 'schoolboy' way?

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: BarfBag
Posted 2008-02-03 21:10:55 and read 2176 times.

We're a young team full of potentially rough unpolished gems. Might as well use the meatgrinder of an Australian triseries to show them what the real big stage is like. I don't expect us to do particularly well - we may not even make the final - I'm more interested in seeing how they shape up for the long haul.

Now's the best time to groom the younger generation, leaving the old brigade of Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly and Kumble to focus on tests. In December this year, Tendulkar will reach 20 years in international cricket. I remember seeing him in his very first ODI, taking a snorter from Waqar Younis in his face, and carrying along afterwards.

Australia are pretty heavily dependent on Hayden for slips plus test opening, and Gilchrist for ODI opening, aren't they ? It's rather interesting how Ponting insists Australia have handled the transition well, while also stating Hayden's absence as a reason for the loss to us at Perth. Outside of the verbal volleys, there's nothing wrong in stating as such - they really will leave big shoes to fill.

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: VHVXB
Posted 2008-02-04 01:45:00 and read 2165 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 160):
Close to unplayable tonight when he could keep his feet. Then Srees did for Ponting rather unceremoniously.

Its pretty difficult to play any seam bowler in that type of condition. Cast your mind back to Australia v England in 2007 where Tremlett ran riot in similar type conditions

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-02-04 01:59:16 and read 2164 times.



Quoting VHVXB (Reply 164):
Cast your mind back to Australia v England in 2007 where Tremlett ran riot in similar type conditions

Must have missed it. Our TV did not work so well after the Adelaide test!!!  Wow!

Topic: RE: India In Australia (Cricket) - A New Start
Username: Ag92
Posted 2008-02-04 02:34:35 and read 2160 times.

CB Series - Australia, India And Sri Lanka (by Ag92 Feb 4 2008 in Non Aviation)
Guys continue on the thread above


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