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Topic: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Frequentflyer
Posted 2008-08-19 06:33:00 and read 2075 times.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080819/...;_ylt=AmZnyRZZ.0K3OQs8gkuD_kis0NUE

May they rest in Peace. They defended Freedom.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Flexo
Posted 2008-08-19 07:07:35 and read 2048 times.

Just read about it, too. Truly horrible to see such a thing happen, may the victims rest in peace.

What do you think, are the Taliban getting stronger again or were they just lucky here?

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-08-19 07:12:58 and read 2043 times.

Sad. What a mess. Even sadder is who knows what they were defending. The Karzai administration is not exactly a model of anything much to be desired. Otherwise the insurgents (Taliban, drug lords or whatever they are) would not get as much traction.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-08-19 09:10:56 and read 1989 times.



Quoting Flexo (Reply 1):
What do you think, are the Taliban getting stronger again or were they just lucky here?

Probably both. And they do not have to get that lucky very often unfortunately.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: AirCop
Posted 2008-08-20 06:16:37 and read 1810 times.



Quoting Flexo (Reply 1):
What do you think, are the Taliban getting stronger again

 checkmark 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...of-Afghanistan%2C-says-report.html

Just another case where the Bush administration but all of it's efforts into Iraqi, causing a significant amount of Afghanistan to fall under Taliban control, so now the allies will need to fight for it again. For years the France had the second most number of troops in Afghanistan.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Daedaeg
Posted 2008-08-20 09:42:04 and read 1733 times.

The French were asked to contribute more in troops and take on greater responsibility in the fighting in Afghanistan. It seems as though they're doing just that. It's very sad that this is the result of those increased efforts. Hopefully these casualties won't mean they'll want to back out of that commitment. That said we should keep these soldiers and their families in our thoughts and prayers.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Flexo
Posted 2008-08-20 10:14:08 and read 1722 times.



Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 13):
Hopefully these casualties won't mean they'll want to back out of that commitment

That's what I'm afraid of also. Unfortunately the Terrorists are right when they say the West is weak. Afghanistan and also Iraq require continous effort on our end to succesfully turn them into peaceful nations. Democracies tend to forget that unfortunately.

To pull out too soon will just mean that all the sacrifices made so far were in vain.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Dougloid
Posted 2008-08-20 10:34:51 and read 1713 times.

Yes. It's sometimes difficult for people to remember that French boys bleed red just like ours...it's the universal color.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: GDB
Posted 2008-08-20 11:07:42 and read 1692 times.

Part of the horror of war, is that while casualties were inevitable for the French, as their role changed and presence increased, I doubt many were expecting this number all at once.
The UK for example, are losing people mostly in one, two's or three's.
Makes no difference of course to the loved ones.

It is true that there is rather less public support in France for this, compared to others-but don't think it is that much better here.
(In the case of the UK, this is in large part the fall out from Iraq).

The French leadership will face a challenge here to stand firm, whatever you think of the current President, he does not seem the type to bend as easily to pressure than his predecessor.

The French troops are decently equipped, professional and well trained, they are a much needed asset out there.
Their men it seems died in a long intensive fight, after being ambushed by as many as 100 enemy.

RIP to the French troops.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Beaucaire
Posted 2008-08-20 11:25:35 and read 1684 times.

French TV mentioned tonite they were lacking enough amunitions ..
The situation was pretty complicated,in that American aircraft overflew the area during the fighting and the Taliban are getting very well structured and organized.
They migrate from isolated terror-group attacks into structured,larger platoon formations with very good equipment.
Allied forces will have to re-think their engagement tactics..
A very sad day for France..
But if one puts casualties into perspective,allied troops suffer relatively few losses as compared to civil populations in Iraq or Afghanistan. Nobody speaks abour colateral losses among civilians..

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: OzGlobal
Posted 2008-08-20 20:43:58 and read 1638 times.



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 7):
Yes. It's sometimes difficult for people to remember that French boys bleed red just like ours...it's the universal color.

"People" with that 'difficulty' have some serious issues to deal with then. France has been fighting the Taliban in Afganistan since the beginning. Their accurate reading of the misadventure that is the invasion of Iraq did not change the colour of anyone's blood...

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: OzGlobal
Posted 2008-08-20 20:46:12 and read 1634 times.



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 7):
Yes. It's sometimes difficult for people to remember that French boys bleed red just like ours...it's the universal color.

"People" with that 'difficulty' have some serious issues to deal with then. France has been fighting the Taliban in Afganistan since the beginning. Their accurate reading of the misadventure that is the invasion of Iraq did not change the colour of anyone's blood...

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Flighty
Posted 2008-08-20 21:04:26 and read 1630 times.



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 10):
Their accurate reading of the misadventure that is the invasion of Iraq did not change the colour of anyone's blood...

That is an excellent point. Hopefully we will learn from our misadventures, as France has. And that's a backhanded compliment so enjoy it!

RIP soldiers!

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-08-20 23:08:48 and read 1617 times.

Retreiving the odd thought that was worthwhile before the deluge:
One startling thing once this thread was started was the relatively profound lack of interest on A.net in the French becoming involved so suddenly in the very sharp end of
matters.

A more comforting aspect, is that the Talibs may come to rue
picking on the French.

By and large it does appear that Afghanistan is again a forgotten war. It also appears that the fact that it was forgotten at a previous time has also been forgotten. If it had not been forgotten in the 80s, we probably would not be having such troubles in Afghanistan now.

In an odd way, the first time it was forgotten was more prominent (a bit "Irish" I know). In the late eighties, the twins Steve and Mark Waugh were making their way to the top in
Australian cricket. Steve was soon picked for Australia but Mark always seemed to be passed over so that he soon became known as Afghanistan - he was the forgotten Waugh.

Looks as if the "Mark Waugh syndrome" is back again. I guess heroin just does not rate against oil.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Asuflyer05
Posted 2008-08-20 23:16:37 and read 1614 times.

May the R.I.P.

Until we are able to hinder the Taliban's ability to regroup in Pakistan we will continue to see incidents like this.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-08-20 23:20:34 and read 1613 times.



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 11):
France has been fighting the Taliban in Afganistan since the beginning.

Nice to have a French contrib OzG.

It does appear that the Aus Min for Defence may have had a point at the NATO meeting early in 2008 where he berated them for first not really having a plan in Afghanistan and secondly for not telling Aus what plan they did have.

It is almost enough to start compiling a D Letterman-like list of things you would least like to happen to your country. This is a tentative list that occurs to me.

3. Have the Taliban take over.
2. Be invaded by the US and have the police and army disbanded.
1. Be attacked by the US and have them hand over the show to the Warlords and NATO.

Just as in Iraq it is proving necessary to come to an accommodation with the Sunni and some of the Shia factions, so in Afghanistan it is going to be necessary to do something about the links to Warlords and drugs. Just as there was too little accommodation in Iraq, in Afghanistan there seems to be all too much accommodation.

There is much wailing about the facilities on the border that the Talibs have, but far more important must surely be their sources of funding.

At first in the GWOT, one part that did appear more successful was following the money trail. Surely with camel trains carrying tonnes at a time, the heroin trail would not be all that difficult to follow?  sarcastic 

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Beaucaire
Posted 2008-08-21 01:26:29 and read 1598 times.

rescued French soldiers who were injured explained that thier batallion was engaged for nearly four hours under enemy-fire until finally support arrived.
They basically run out of amunition and NATO planes supposed to assist their fight also shot by incident on the French troops..
It will take some time to investigate this,but French command will face tough questions ..

http://www.levif.be/actualite/europe...t-des-erreurs-de-commandement.html

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Beaucaire
Posted 2008-08-21 04:46:33 and read 1575 times.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...ee8be1-55b1-4687-b899-ba2bfe47f9c0

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-08-21 07:38:56 and read 1550 times.



Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 14):
Until we are able to hinder the Taliban's ability to regroup in Pakistan we will continue to see incidents like this.

Might be more useful to cut off funding from the heroin trade and make the Karzai administration more attractive to most Pashtuns compared with the Taliban?????

It is always great to put the blame on somewhere else. Look at the "let us sort out Cambodia and S Vietnam will be safe" story. Not exactly true. And the attempt wrecked Cambodia worse than even Vietnam was wrecked.

About the only thing that would be worse than the present situation would be a Pakistan that came to resemble a Cambodia!

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Dougloid
Posted 2008-08-21 07:50:49 and read 1548 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
It is always great to put the blame on somewhere else. Look at the "let us sort out Cambodia and S Vietnam will be safe" story. Not exactly true. And the attempt wrecked Cambodia worse than even Vietnam was wrecked.

I think the political situation in Cambodia was a lot more complicated than that. Don't confuse connection with causation, buckaroo.

However I agree with you on the first sentence about the evils associated with putting the blame on somewhere else. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_Civil_War

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-08-21 08:05:44 and read 1542 times.



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 19):
I think the political situation in Cambodia was a lot more complicated than that. Don't confuse connection with causation, buckaroo.

No I was not, but without a four page essay, that was about asbestos I could manage!! The thing that really ticks me off about Cambodia is that "we" all opposed Vietnam putting an end to the Pol Pot nonsence even long after Ben Kiernan's book came out on the Kiling Fields.

It was only an allusion to the dangers of assuming that just a bit further and things will be just fine, when what you are already sitting on is a right royal mess.

And of course in S Vietnam, what the US was partly sitting on was the underground HQ of the Vietcong. So on that basis, OBL and dear little Omar might easily be in Kabul!!!!

On causation and connection, I do remember being chastised for not using statistics to show causation by a referee and the bl**dy editor was too ignorant to know that no stat method demonstrates causation. Especially not the cross spectral analysis I was told to use - why not cross spectral anal, because in this case, the number of cycles to be tested was one (or aguably 0.5), hence no real degrees of freedom.

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: SKYSERVICE_330
Posted 2008-08-21 11:27:37 and read 1519 times.



Quoting Frequentflyer (Thread starter):
May they rest in Peace. They defended Freedom.

Well put. They dedicated their lives and made the ultimate sacrifice.


In similarly sad news...

3 Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan
Thursday, August 21, 2008 | 1:57 PM
CBC News
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/08/21/cdn-soldiers.html

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Baroque
Posted 2008-08-21 15:26:51 and read 1488 times.



Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 21):
3 Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan
Thursday, August 21, 2008 | 1:57 PM
CBC News

The news out of Afghanistan is a bit like waiting for the other boot to fall. Not much of a source of good news.

First the aid agencies feel they have to withdraw and now the various forces are suffering increased casualties.

This is a crisis. It had best be recognised before the snow comes and everyone takes their "winter nap"!

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Beaucaire
Posted 2008-08-22 10:24:13 and read 1446 times.

Speaking about collateral damage in Afghanistan..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...fghanistan-kills-76-civilians.html

Topic: RE: 10 French Soldiers Died In Afghanistan
Username: Frequentflyer
Posted 2008-08-22 10:57:42 and read 1432 times.



Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 21):
In similarly sad news...

3 Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan

Yes Skyservice, and I am likewise humbled by these Gentlemen's courage and dedication.

Canada stands with France and the US and others to defend the Afghan's right to live decently.

Freedom

Pat


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