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Topic: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: OzGlobal
Posted 2009-08-04 12:27:32 and read 4674 times.

My American fellow a.netters are going to have to help me out here. Even though I went to school in Washington DC as a kid and know something of US culture, even though I saw American voters return Bush after the cat was totally out of the bag on Iraq, this one is beyond the powers of my political imagination. How on God's earth can so many Americans with access to the internet, cable TV and any other number of communication channels arrive at the conclusion that their elected president was not born in their own country?



http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennt...dont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html

BTW, for what it's worth, here is a link to a scanned copy of his actual birth certificate.

http://features.csmonitor.com/politi...rs-rise-of-dc-conspiracy-theories/

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Tugger
Posted 2009-08-04 12:43:25 and read 4655 times.

Remember, we have people here who believe, I mean REALLY believe that we didn't go to the moon! And there is still a large contingent that are sure there was a second shooter and conspiracy involved in JFK's assassination.

It doesn't take much to get people to believe something if that's what they want to do. There are crazies everywhere. I laugh at the idiot who didn't deploy because he didn't believe President Obama was born a citizen of the USA and so wasn't his commander in chief, I guess he thought that everyone in the chain of command was also illegitimate. Since his service was strictly voluntary he wasn't obligated to go anyway. (He just didn't want to go and was scared to say so, which makes his dodge even more dishonorable, just admit it and don't go.)

Anyway, my point is that lots of people can disbelieve what every you present as fact. Even pictures, documents, statements, anything. It's sad but its true.

Tugg

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Dtwclipper
Posted 2009-08-04 12:47:00 and read 4648 times.

Can we have the tin foil hats and the "Not this Sh%t again" pictures please!


Obama birthplace deniers lack reality
Conspiracy theorists a circus of extremism
http://www.freep.com/article/2009080...ma-birthplace-deniers-lack-reality

[Edited 2009-08-04 12:51:54]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: JakeOrion
Posted 2009-08-04 12:51:01 and read 4640 times.



Quoting Tugger (Reply 1):
Remember, we have people here who believe, I mean REALLY believe that we didn't go to the moon! And there is still a large contingent that are sure there was a second shooter and conspiracy involved in JFK's assassination.

I'm going to take it up a step (by several thousand I mean):

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Sca~~~~~~~~~~ry~~~.

Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
http://features.csmonitor.com/politi...rs-rise-of-dc-conspiracy-theories/

Just show the damn paper copy already. ALL of you on A.net say the Internet is a source of manipulative information, and we should take everything with a fine grain of salt. Now, all of a sudden when it comes to Birth Certificates, its 100% OK?

OK, so no one is allowed to question the validity of anything on the Internet anymore, period.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: MSNDC9
Posted 2009-08-04 12:51:38 and read 4642 times.

Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
How on God's earth can so many Americans with access to the internet, cable TV and any other number of communication channels arrive at the conclusion that their elected president was not born in their own country?

Not saying I agree with them, but in a nut shell - the media routinely lies to the public. They did it this weekend on the Sarah Palin divorce issue - a myth generated by a blogger for crying out loud which was gleefully regurgitated by several media outlets.

This same media is viewed majoritively as being in the tank for Obama.

End result - a large percentage of a given population won't buy it.

[Edited 2009-08-04 12:59:47]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: OzGlobal
Posted 2009-08-04 12:55:54 and read 4621 times.



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 3):
Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
http://features.csmonitor.com/politi...rs-rise-of-dc-conspiracy-theories/

Just show the damn paper copy already. ALL of you on A.net say the Internet is a source of manipulative information, and we should take everything with a fine grain of salt. Now, all of a sudden when it comes to Birth Certificates, its 100% OK?

Not at all, but he had to supply this document to the electoral authorities in order to launch has candidacy. This is well known; plus here is a facsimile of said document. If it's fake, with all that is at stake, it should have been easy enough to prove by now!!!

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: N229NW
Posted 2009-08-04 12:57:46 and read 4616 times.



Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
How on God's earth can so many Americans with access to the internet, cable TV and any other number of communication channels arrive at the conclusion that their elected president was not born in their own country?

Unfortunately most people in most places are pretty easy to manipulate because they don't think for themselves and don't or can't think critically.Conspiracy theories are particularly attractive to people. I remember surveys that over 50% of Turks believed 9/11 was an inside job, for example.

Or look at the number of people who believe in Astrology, homeopathy, in a huge number of countries...

Basically, I'm appalled, but I can't say I'm surprised.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Max550
Posted 2009-08-04 12:58:53 and read 4612 times.



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 3):
Just show the damn paper copy already. ALL of you on A.net say the Internet is a source of manipulative information, and we should take everything with a fine grain of salt. Now, all of a sudden when it comes to Birth Certificates, its 100% OK?

It's been shown

Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 4):
Not saying I agree with them, but in a nut shell - the media routinely lies to the public. They did it this weekend on the Sarah Palin divorce issue - a myth generated by a blogger for crying out loud.

They do, which is why they should back up their stories with evidence, like they have in this case. We've seen a birth certificate and announcement of birth in a newspaper, what more do you want.
There is nothing that would convince these people.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: JakeOrion
Posted 2009-08-04 13:00:32 and read 4606 times.



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 5):
If it's fake, with all that is at stake, it should have been easy enough to prove by now!!!

Yes, by providing a paper copy. All of this will go away once people see the paper copy, that's all he has to do. Why is that so hard?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Srbmod
Posted 2009-08-04 13:01:57 and read 4607 times.



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
Can we have this tin foil hats an the Not this Sh%t again picture please!




While we're at it, I'll even throw in this one:


Considering the legs this matter has, it's definitely not going to go away anytime soon. Remember, there were folks questioning Sen. McCain's eligibility because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone.

My own feeling is that as long as one parent is a natural-born citizen of the United States, it should not even matter where a President was born, as to me, they are considered to be an American citizen by birth. While some countries (like the US) do consider a child born in their country to be a citizen of their country, they are not forced to take said citizenship.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Max550
Posted 2009-08-04 13:02:23 and read 4602 times.



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 8):

Yes, by providing a paper copy. All of this will go away once people see the paper copy, that's all he has to do. Why is that so hard?

Here it is:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Does that settle it?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Superfly
Posted 2009-08-04 13:05:10 and read 4598 times.



Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
How on God's earth can so many Americans with access to the internet, cable TV and any other number of communication channels arrive at the conclusion that their elected president was not born in their own country?



Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
58 Percent Of GOP

There is your answer right there.
Many in the GOP are Bible-thumping religious folks that get their information from their Pastors, other church members and that feller down the street.
They ain't in to all this new fangled stuff like the enternet & cable tayvee.  dopey 

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: JakeOrion
Posted 2009-08-04 13:08:20 and read 4584 times.



Quoting Max550 (Reply 10):
Here it is:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Does that settle it?

Thank you! That's all I wanted. I'm done now.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Dtwclipper
Posted 2009-08-04 13:13:35 and read 4580 times.



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 8):


Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 5):
If it's fake, with all that is at stake, it should have been easy enough to prove by now!!!

Yes, by providing a paper copy. All of this will go away once people see the paper copy, that's all he has to do. Why is that so hard?

Oh, and let us not foget about the birth announcements in the local papers or did he use the CIA's Atavachron to go back in time and fix that too. That goes against the prime directive too!

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: MSNDC9
Posted 2009-08-04 13:16:20 and read 4569 times.



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 13):
Oh, and let us not foget about the birth announcements in the local papers

At the time, those were automatically generated in Hawaii when a birth was reported. It didn't matter if the person was born in Hawaii or not, just that someone reported a live birth to the government. But that's beside the point.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: StasisLAX
Posted 2009-08-04 13:22:29 and read 4549 times.



Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
How on God's earth can so many Americans with access to the internet, cable TV and any other number of communication channels arrive at the conclusion that their elected president was not born in their own country?

The answer to your question is simple. Because there are A LOT of racists in America that cannot accept the FACT that a politically progressive black man is the President of the United States.  yes 

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2009-08-04 13:31:08 and read 4533 times.



Quoting Max550 (Reply 10):
Here it is:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Does that settle it?

Nobody seems to talk about the fact that that "birth certificate" was created in the past few years, using a laserjet. Where is the original, created and dated in 1961?

Look, I understand sometimes having to get a new Birth Cirtificate issued. But can they at least explain the case? Having a BC created for a candidate with Obama's popularity would be a simple thing to do with the right connections. Why does nobody even mention this? I'll bet this certificate is less than 2 or 3 years old.

Personally, I have always thought that he was born in the US and this is a non-issue. But showing this obviously non-original document without explanations just makes matters worse.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: MSNDC9
Posted 2009-08-04 13:32:38 and read 4525 times.



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 15):

Nice underhanded stereotyping there.  Yeah sure

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: FuturePilot16
Posted 2009-08-04 13:36:59 and read 4522 times.



Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
How on God's earth can so many Americans with access to the internet, cable TV and any other number of communication channels arrive at the conclusion that their elected president was not born in their own country?

Well, Oz, Americans, are idiots in a lot of cases. I heard people say the real reason is that the U.S. wants to complete the new world order, and Obama is a lot better to convince than McCain. I think a lot of these same Americans believe every U.S. presidential election in history has been rigged, they've come up with all kinds of excuses, now it's Obama's turn. My hope to you people in other countries is not to take most Americans too seriously. We actually have an ammunition shortage in this country right now because people are arming themselves in order to protect themselves from the gov't. They are morons, and should be ignored. This issue doesn't even anger me anymore, i've been hearing about it since a few days after 9/11 when people claimed the gov't planned it and still remains the biggest conspiracy theory in this country.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: GDB
Posted 2009-08-04 13:43:20 and read 4509 times.

As stated, the basic lack of a reasonably intelligent adult person's power of reasoning is what strikes you.

These types are basically still young kids and not very bright ones.

The phrase 'cannot see the wood from the trees' comes to mind, the idea that someone who, from the early stages of his public life, up the political ladder, would have more and more of his background scrutinized, until getting to the place where, as in all cases, extremely detailed background checks are carried out for a Presidential Candidate.
Some might think this does not happen, it does, think about it, the person who has the authority to destroy much of human civilization by the fact that they and no one else, can authorize the release of the most destructive power in the world, the US nuclear weapons inventory.

Any Presidential candidate will probably be the most scrutinized person alive, but not just in public.

However, in many of the people who actually give any credence to this idea, could it be that they don't actually full believe, but that they want to believe their President is some kind of Islamic Manchurian Candidate .
The ones who believe or want to believe this stuff, are the ones who were most viscerally opposed to him, not just along party lines, policy, or any aspects of his public personality.
Just the idea of him , for some it's part of his background being so cosmopolitan for a US President, others his colour.
Add in the paranoia and fear, which it is, of anything not very familiar to them.
Never mind not traveling abroad, I bet quite a few never crossed their State Line.

I understood at least one GOP lawmaker, while not fully endorsing this stuff in public, brings it up in a sly way, thinks 'it should be looked at'.
(Like it hasn't been!)

Obama might well benefit from that, having some of his political opponents make such fools of themselves, which will only gain the approval of those who would never vote for Obama in a million years anyway.
Let's face it, Mrs Palin's sly comments at rallies last year, extolling the virtues of real Americans did not do her any good.
Neither did the images of some shouting 'kill him' or 'he's a terrorist' in the crowds, McCain of course had no time for such nonsense and said so, Palin however.......

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Michlis
Posted 2009-08-04 13:46:29 and read 4483 times.



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 3):

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djubl...y.htm

Lol, Jake. You're a brave man to cite alaska.net after DTW's gaff with the Sarah Palin "divorce" last weeked.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2009-08-04 13:51:32 and read 4470 times.

IMHO, it's interesting that Obama has spent nearly $1,000,000.00 in litigation trying to "dodge" the release of personal records. Records that every other U.S. President has released. I like to think of Obama as the Affirmative Action President.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 6):
Unfortunately most people in most places are pretty easy to manipulate because they don't think for themselves and don't or can't think critically.

Yeah no kidding. Just look at who won the 2008 U.S. Presidential election. I was inline voting with a bunch of yahoos wearing Obama shirts who could barely speak plain English...but sure they know who they're voting for. You, as a citizen of this country, should have to take an exam to show that you are informed about the issues at hand and what's at stake.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2009-08-04 13:57:08 and read 4460 times.



Quoting Tugger (Reply 1):
And there is still a large contingent that are sure there was a second shooter and conspiracy involved in JFK's assassination.

Well this is probably one theory that could be true.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: N229NW
Posted 2009-08-04 13:58:21 and read 4452 times.



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 3):
I'm going to take it up a step (by several thousand I mean):

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djubl...y.htm

Sweeet. This is my favorite quote, showing their "scientific evidence" for why the earth is flat:

Once again, picture in your mind a round world. Now imagine that there are two people on this world, one at each pole. For the person at the top of the world, (the North Pole), gravity is pulling him down, towards the South Pole. But for the person at the South Pole, shouldn't gravity pull him down as well? What keeps our person at the South Pole from falling completely off the face of the "globe"?

 rotfl 
 rotfl 


 rotfl 


 rotfl 


 rotfl 

Awesome understanding of gravity there people

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: GDB
Posted 2009-08-04 14:06:03 and read 4434 times.



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
Well this is probably one theory that could be true.

Why? 18 years after JFK, Reagan was shot by a lone nut.
Thought it could get him into Jodie Foster's knickers, if only he knew....!
Some of the fall out from the infamous 'Manson Family' tried to get President Ford in the mid 70's.

So it seems that US Presidents are, always have been, most at risk from home grown nuts, not from some dark conspiracies domestic or foreign.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Garnetpalmetto
Posted 2009-08-04 14:16:40 and read 4415 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
IMHO, it's interesting that Obama has spent nearly $1,000,000.00 in litigation trying to "dodge" the release of personal records.

You know I often see that number bandied about on the 'net but I've yet to see a hard source that isn't the likes of WND, Free Republic, Right Wing Blogs-r-Us, etc. Do you have a source for this from a substantive news source?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Tugger
Posted 2009-08-04 14:20:32 and read 4570 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
Nobody seems to talk about the fact that that "birth certificate" was created in the past few years, using a laserjet. Where is the original, created and dated in 1961?

Look, I understand sometimes having to get a new Birth Cirtificate issued. But can they at least explain the case? Having a BC created for a candidate with Obama's popularity would be a simple thing to do with the right connections. Why does nobody even mention this? I'll bet this certificate is less than 2 or 3 years old.

Personally, I have always thought that he was born in the US and this is a non-issue. But showing this obviously non-original document without explanations just makes matters worse.

My understanding is that Hawaii digitized their birth records and destroyed the originals. If this is the case (and I have seen nothing disputing that) how could anyone sufficiently "prove" themselves to be US citizens in any state that does this?

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
Yeah no kidding. Just look at who won the 2008 U.S. Presidential election. I was inline voting with a bunch of yahoos wearing Obama shirts who could barely speak plain English...but sure they know who they're voting for. You, as a citizen of this country, should have to take an exam to show that you are informed about the issues at hand and what's at stake.

But that would kill the entire "Deep South" political establishment! From the Dixiecrats to the Southern Republicans, the politicians of the region have depended on the illiteracy you are pointing out. "You don't have to know who to vote for, just vote for who I tell you to vote for."   
By the way, I don't know if I believe your story since Tennessee law prohibits anyone from displaying any campaign clothing or soliciting voters within 100 feet from the entrance to the polling place. You may only do so beyond a100 foot boundary. If you entered the polling place with a campaign hat on, you are allowed to vote only if you take off the hat and do not show it to anyone. If you have a campaign shirt on you are asked to immediately leave the polling place to go home and change. However, if you can cover up the shirt with a jacket so no one else can see it, then you will be allowed to vote.

I am basing this on your member profile showing your to be in Tennessee, which obviously may not be where you vote, so forgive me if I am in error.

Quoting GDB (Reply 25):
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
Well this is probably one theory that could be true.

Why? 18 years after JFK, Reagan was shot by a lone nut.
Thought it could get him into Jodie Foster's knickers, if only he knew....!
Some of the fall out from the infamous 'Manson Family' tried to get President Ford in the mid 70's.

So it seems that US Presidents are, always have been, most at risk from home grown nuts, not from some dark conspiracies domestic or foreign.

See? I'm telling you, things like this can stick around forever. And as you can see it's not just American's.

Tugg

[Edited 2009-08-04 14:31:23]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: MadameConcorde
Posted 2009-08-04 14:23:13 and read 4556 times.

This whole thing should have been investigated before BHO was elected, not after.
There are more urgent matters that have to be taken care of it seems than a birth certificate.

If he was born at the Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu, so much the better. If he was born in Mombasa, it will not make much difference either. He is the President of the United States with the job in the White House, one way or the other.

I am not one to judge. I was not there at the time and place where he was born.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: AGM100
Posted 2009-08-04 14:38:31 and read 4527 times.



Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 17):
Nice underhanded stereotyping there.

Its not underhanded ..its about all they have to defend the President and his policies.

I believe Orielly has it right .... they want the issue to continue to marginalize the right wing and many are falling into the trap.

At this point I don't care where he was born ,what color his skin is or who is mother was... he is President .. and I am ideologically opposed to almost everything he has tried to do. I read his book .... like I am too all other left wing radicals .. I am opposition.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2009-08-04 14:52:13 and read 4512 times.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):

Nobody seems to talk about the fact that that "birth certificate" was created in the past few years, using a laserjet. Where is the original, created and dated in 1961?

Do you have yours? I sure don't have mine. I have my passport as my ultimate proof that I am a U.S. Citizen.

I suppose that when I go back to Michigan in the autumn, I should figure out how to get a copy of my birth certificate. But really, 15 years after Barak Obama was born, I am sure it hadn't occurred to anyone to keep his birth certificate around in case he became the President.

There comes a point where the demands for proof keep changing so that satisfactory proof can never be provided. The U.S. Government, including the Courts, have decided what proof is acceptable to prove citizenship. Barak Obama has satisfied those rules. He has nothing to gain from producing an impossible array of documents for skeptics.

Thus, the question is, for practical purposes, closed. And what if he suddenly DID turn around and provide all the crazy forms of proof people are requesting? I have never heard of this sort of braying about any President before. McCain was born in Panama and the DNC made a public statement that they were not going to challenge his citizenship status since the Constitution does not declare that one must be born in the U.S. to be a "Natural Born Citizen."

I certainly can't provide the sort of documentation you are requiring of this man. If you really need my birth certificate, I'm going to have to go to the Michigan Secretary of State and get a new one.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 28):
At this point I don't care where he was born ,what color his skin is or who is mother was... he is President .. and I am ideologically opposed to almost everything he has tried to do. I read his book .... like I am too all other left wing radicals .. I am opposition.

This, AGM, is why you are on my RU list, as improbable as it may seem. It is because you don't hate the man. You hate what he does. I would spend my life opposing the very policies you support, but you have respect for others, and if your view of the world is different than mine, we at least have that in common.

Dreadnought is on my RU list for the same reason. Lest anyone, call me a biased Liberal. I very much enjoy engaging in debates with these two. If only more Conservatives were like they are.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: StasisLAX
Posted 2009-08-04 14:59:21 and read 4490 times.



Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 17):
Nice underhanded stereotyping there

Me and the editorial board of the Los Angeles Times (I know, the Times editors are communists, weak, unAmerican, blah, blah, blah).... but the point is that there are some Americans that feel the "birthers" are truly "racists" or worse.....

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Superfly
Posted 2009-08-04 15:02:59 and read 4487 times.



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 27):
This whole thing should have been investigated before BHO was elected, not after.

It has been brought up MANY times before he was elected President.
Time and time again, it has been debunked.
Hawaii's Republican governor Linda Lingle even confirmed the legitimacy of his birth certificate. She has been considered a rising star in the Republican party and would have loved to be the one to bring down Barack Obama.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Racko
Posted 2009-08-04 15:17:39 and read 4471 times.

I doubt that Barack Obama is male. He might have been misleading the public the whole time. Has anybody seen proof that he is?

What is he hiding?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2009-08-04 15:22:00 and read 4466 times.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
Where is the original, created and dated in 1961?

You don't need it. All you need is the birth certificate number.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2009-08-04 15:23:42 and read 4465 times.



Quoting Racko (Reply 32):


I doubt that Barack Obama is male. He might have been misleading the public the whole time. Has anybody seen proof that he is?

In fact, they have. He released medical records. Admittedly, I doubt he has a karyotype sitting around.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: AGM100
Posted 2009-08-04 16:21:23 and read 4429 times.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
It is because you don't hate the man

Of course I dont hate the man ... I kind of feel sorry for him . He has been shot to the top by a small group of DNC operators who met in that office T. Dashal talked about in his interview. He was the chosen one .. and I am not sure he is prepared for it or being handled very well.

For example... the US economy is like a rocket sitting on the launch pad right now ... all he would need to do is go a little more to the right with some corporate tax cuts and put off the crazy left wing spending BS ... basically say no to Pelosi , Reid and the unions. The economy would blast off.

He is in a amazing situation. If he stays with the party line he is now on .. he will fail . If he goes more to the proven economic policies and it works .. he will be a god and headed for Rushmore. Its all about the economy . But we will see if he has the will to go head to head with those who put him there. One mans opinion

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2009-08-04 17:03:09 and read 4396 times.



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 35):
Its all about the economy .

We agree there.

I also agree that his spending was way overboard, although in many ways, I am glad to see that there is at least stability occurring. And there are signs of life going on. All over, people are starting to get jobs. Finances are being re-sorted and people are moving around. We're all a bit shell-shocked, but I know lots of people who are getting jobs now.

Things will pick up. And then we can debate whether Obama helped it or hurt it.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: StarAC17
Posted 2009-08-04 17:51:56 and read 4366 times.



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
Can we have the tin foil hats and the "Not this Sh%t again" pictures please!

I would say so but as this clip puts it, this will never go away unless everyone rational says to these nuts this is  redflag  and to STFU this will never go away. Bill Maher made a decent commentary last week about the crazy things that can easily be seen as the truth.

Clip Below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4apBc87h5-A

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: AGM100
Posted 2009-08-04 18:02:29 and read 4362 times.



Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 37):
Bill Maher

OK I give it to you .. he is right in what he is saying. The problem is that he never shut his yapper about President Bush... so basically he has no credibility. Now his guy is in , and he marginalizes the other side and plays the victim. What the hell does he want ... no criticism of his guy ? Just shivering legs and ..OH THANK YOU MR. PRESIDENT ....

Toughen up ya chumps ... we dealt with it for 8 years ..lets see if your guy can handle a little roughing up.

That said ... I sent emails to my representatives to get off of it .. let it go. We have plenty of good issues to fight over.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Gemuser
Posted 2009-08-04 18:04:44 and read 4364 times.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
Nobody seems to talk about the fact that that "birth certificate" was created in the past few years, using a laserjet. Where is the original, created and dated in 1961?

Don't know specifically about US states but in 1961, generally, in the English speaking world there is NO such thing as an "orginal" birth certificate. The details of the birth are entered in a "register" of births (a big book, hand written, in 1961). The birth certificate is a "certification" by the state that there is an entry in the register of births. If you look at the fine print you'll see that the certificate is doing just that. Follow the link in reply 10/16, second photo and you'll see those words "true copy or abstract of the record on file".

To have a "fake" birth certificate that would have to stand up to such intense public interest you would also have to have fake registsters, fake hospital records, etc, etc.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 26):
My understanding is that Hawaii digitized their birth records and destroyed the originals. If this is the case (and I have seen nothing disputing that) how could anyone sufficiently "prove" themselves to be US citizens in any state that does this?

While I have no knowledge of the Hawaii case I would be EXTREMLY suprised if this was the case. Having spent a decarde and a half as an archivist I'd be surprised if this happened for a number of legal and archival reasons, but you never know!

Gemuser

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: StarAC17
Posted 2009-08-04 19:05:07 and read 4322 times.



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 38):
OK I give it to you .. he is right in what he is saying. The problem is that he never shut his yapper about President Bush... so basically he has no credibility. Now his guy is in , and he marginalizes the other side and plays the victim. What the hell does he want ... no criticism of his guy ? Just shivering legs and ..OH THANK YOU MR. PRESIDENT

Not so fast on that one, Maher has been tough on Obama and taken heat from the left as well on his remarks. Clip Below (starting at 2:05)

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 38):
Toughen up ya chumps ... we dealt with it for 8 years ..lets see if your guy can handle a little roughing up.

I think he can take it, but remember for basically all of Bush's first term any questioning of what he did due to the events of 9/11 was either not considered or that person was chastised for being unpatriotic. I will give you that his second term was lame duck.

Also republicans have to admit before hand that if Obama has to deal with a terrorist attack in the next 4 or even 8 years whatever the cause (god forbid). That you are going to blame him for it (not saying you personally will) and not unite behind him moving forward. Call the democrats what you want but they stood behind Bush until he started to mess things up.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2009-08-04 19:32:49 and read 4292 times.



Quoting Tugger (Reply 26):
By the way, I don't know if I believe your story since Tennessee law prohibits anyone from displaying any campaign clothing or soliciting voters within 100 feet from the entrance to the polling place.

Correct, and we were at the Hermitage Library, and when we got just inside the door where the voting booths were, they were told to take their shirts of or come back another day.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 26):
I am basing this on your member profile showing your to be in Tennessee, which obviously may not be where you vote, so forgive me if I am in error.

No, you're absolutely right, and honestly I was a little surprised as this being my second presidential election to vote in, I was unaware of that law. Very interesting really.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Sv7887
Posted 2009-08-04 20:03:27 and read 4273 times.

Hi All,
For pete's sakes Obama is the President. He won fair and square, people need to get over that. As a conservative Republican I am embarrassed at those who continue to fan the flames over something so pointless.

I personally think he's a good guy, would love to have a beer with the guy but I don't agree with his policies.

I don't see the need to villainize the man, just make cogent arguments against his positions and be done with it. I gave the GOP fundraiser operator who called me shilling about "Evil LIberals" an earful a few days ago about the GOP showing little or no leadership. Being the party of "No" isn't going to get them anywhere. Give alternatives that make sense, not just blanket oppose everything he gets out there.

We saw enough of this nonsense with people painting Bush as Hitler and the devil. It's disappointing that the very people who complained about Bush's characterization are doing the same to Obama. It's stupid and classless.

With regards to the economy it's just the fact we're reaching the bottom. People are just celebrating the fact that the media hyped Depression never happened. It will take some time for households to reduce their insane levels of debt (note the increase in US household savings rates). Expect a slow recovery and hope to god no nutcase terrorist gets lucky.

-Sam

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: L-188
Posted 2009-08-04 20:18:46 and read 4262 times.



Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
How on God's earth can so many Americans with access to the internet, cable TV and any other number of communication channels arrive at the conclusion that their elected president was not born in their own country?

Oz did you happen to see who did the poll. That alone explains the results.

My personal feelings are that the lefties are trying to distract attention from Obama's nationalization of the US medical industry so they are dragging this back up and giving it legs.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: FlyDeltaJets87
Posted 2009-08-04 20:28:00 and read 4250 times.

Just to play devil's advocate in all this and have some fun on a couple posts:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 13):
Oh, and let us not foget about the birth announcements in the local papers or did he use the CIA's Atavachron to go back in time and fix that too. That goes against the prime directive too!

Well using Microsoft Word to edit documents from the 1970s is not above Dan Rather and CBS.  scratchchin 

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):

Do you have yours? I sure don't have mine. I have my passport as my ultimate proof that I am a U.S. Citizen.

I still keep a certified copy of mine, as I had to submit one to get a passport about two years ago.


Q: What do God and Obama have in common?
A: Neither one has a birth certificate.
 biggrin 

That'll rile some people up.  wink 

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: 7324ever
Posted 2009-08-04 20:34:13 and read 4242 times.



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 44):

I still keep a certified copy of mine, as I had to submit one to get a passport about two years ago.


Q: What do God and Obama have in common?
A: Neither one has a birth certificate.
biggrin

That'll rile some people up. wink

Oh well that's inconclusive! Prove gods real with a birth certificate than ill believe Obama was not born in Kenya!

 duck   duck   duck 

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Seb146
Posted 2009-08-04 22:51:24 and read 4203 times.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
Having a BC created for a candidate with Obama's popularity would be a simple thing to do with the right connections. Why does nobody even mention this? I'll bet this certificate is less than 2 or 3 years old.

Oh, for pete's sake. Let's look at this from a different angle: Obama was not even the front-runner when he submitted to run for president! He did not even become the front-runner for quite some time. Hillary? Richardson? Edwards? Remember them? They were WAY ahead of Obama in the polls when people were certified to run for president, including Obama himself. Why does no one on the right even remember that is the way history was instead of trying to re-write history?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Baroque
Posted 2009-08-05 03:26:20 and read 4126 times.



Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
though I saw American voters return Bush after the cat was totally out of the bag on Iraq, this one is beyond the powers of my political imagination

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl  Although to be fair what is even funnier is that the Birthers forged a Keyan birth cert using the information from a late middle aged guy in Adelaide.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2646009.htm

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Dtwclipper
Posted 2009-08-05 04:53:54 and read 4103 times.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 47):
forged a Keyan birth cert using the information from a late middle aged guy in Adelaide.

"The fake Kenyan birth document has been circulated by political opponents of Obama's, called the Birthers, who are out to unseat him.

A growing online community who are against the Birthers quickly picked apart the bogus birth certificate and traced it back to about as far from Kenya as you can get - Thebarton Community Hospital at Mile End in South Australia and David Jeffrey Bomford."


Wow, not helping their cause! Perhaps stunts like this will shut these folks up once and for all!

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 44):
Well using Microsoft Word to edit documents from the 1970s is not above Dan Rather and CBS.

Rather didn't forge the documents. They were supplied to CBS and not completely fact checked, a big difference don't you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Dtwclipper
Posted 2009-08-05 05:04:30 and read 4093 times.



Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 14):
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 13):
Oh, and let us not foget about the birth announcements in the local papers

At the time, those were automatically generated in Hawaii when a birth was reported. It didn't matter if the person was born in Hawaii or not, just that someone reported a live birth to the government. But that's beside the point.

I see, so Mrs O. called in from Kenya to some insider in Hawaii (because she knew her son would grow up and run for President some day) and had this "someone" report a live birth to the government?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Baroque
Posted 2009-08-05 05:13:32 and read 4079 times.



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48):
A growing online community who are against the Birthers quickly picked apart the bogus birth certificate and traced it back to about as far from Kenya as you can get - Thebarton Community Hospital at Mile End in South Australia and David Jeffrey Bomford."

I just hope that America is as amazed ast the good Mr Bomford was - VERY!!

Alas we only know part of the story, as Google says:

PM - Adelaide man caught up in bid to oust Obama 04/08/2009
DINA ROSENDORFF: David Jeffrey Bomford's language was a touch too colourful for radio when PM first contacted him with news his birth certificate had been ...
www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2646009.htm


There is a podcast at
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2646009.htm

But the transcript has yet to appear, the folk at the ABC were probably too busy laughing.

http://mountainsageblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/bomford.jpg

It is also the first we knew that Brisbane is actually in Kenya. They do grow coffee in the hills to the SW of Brissie, and kikuyu is the commonest grass, but Kenya - not really!! Hope Barack invites him over for a beer. Good photo op for the Pres???

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: MSNDC9
Posted 2009-08-05 08:57:46 and read 3949 times.



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 49):
I see, so Mrs O. called in from Kenya to some insider in Hawaii (because she knew her son would grow up and run for President some day) and had this "someone" report a live birth to the government?

If you had a kid in London and weren't going to be back to the US for a couple of years and wanted your child to have dual citizenship, then yes you would call and have the birth recorded.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: MadameConcorde
Posted 2009-08-05 09:01:38 and read 3950 times.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 31):
Hawaii's Republican governor Linda Lingle even confirmed the legitimacy of his birth certificate. She has been considered a rising star in the Republican party and would have loved to be the one to bring down Barack Obama.

I knew Linda Lingle very well from my multi-numerous travels to Oahu, Maui, etc. through friends in Hawaii. I was in Honolulu when she had her gubernatorial inauguration and was invited to the ceremony and subsequent parties. I even corresponded with her for a while.

This had nothing to do with politics but more with Hawaiian matters. I do not live in the US and don't mix with others business or politics. However the fact is that she was not at Kapiolani's hospital either if and when Barack H. Obama was born if he was ever born there. All she has about him is a computerized certificate of live birth issued by the State of Hawaii.

As I said before, it does not make much difference where he is born. He was chosen to be the President of the United States of America and I suppose he will remain on the job until the end of his term. I do not think this uncertain "birth" thing can be a sufficient motive for impeachment.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Seb146
Posted 2009-08-05 09:06:58 and read 3944 times.



Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 51):
If you had a kid in London and weren't going to be back to the US for a couple of years and wanted your child to have dual citizenship, then yes you would call and have the birth recorded.

Knowing full well her boy would become president someday. Right. Hawaii is the first place I would call. I was born in Kansas. I contacted the state of Kansas and have a certified copy of my birth cirtificate. Like the one the president had to produce when he announced he was running for president against Hillary, Bill Richardson, John Edwards and all the others; long before he was the front-runner in the campaign. When my brothers were born, they were both born in Oregon. Do you think there was an announcement in ANY of the newspapers in Kansas, or Florida, or Maine, or Hawaii? There was one for only one of my brothers. The other one never had a birth announcement. Does that mean, even though he was born in the Unted States, he is not eligible to run for president, since his announcement never appeared in any paper, but the state has a birth cirtificate for him?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: MadameConcorde
Posted 2009-08-05 09:10:44 and read 3936 times.

What is the difference between the "certificate of live birth" and "birth certificate"? They are saying it is two different things but how?  Confused

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Dtwclipper
Posted 2009-08-05 09:11:35 and read 3937 times.



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 52):
certificate of live birth issued by the State of Hawaii.

And with that ladies and gentleman, the case is closed.

Done, move on.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 52):
either if and when Barack H. Obama was born if he was ever born there

There is no "IF" or "WHEN". See above.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Max550
Posted 2009-08-05 09:20:17 and read 3932 times.



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 54):
What is the difference between the "certificate of live birth" and "birth certificate"? They are saying it is two different things but how?

I think it depends on the state more than anything. The information on them varies as well. My "certification of birth" doesn't even have my parents names on it, just my name, sex, county of birth and a few dates and numbers.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: AGM100
Posted 2009-08-05 09:29:07 and read 3918 times.



Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 40):
Not so fast on that one, Maher has been tough on Obama and taken heat from the left as well on his remarks. Clip Below (starting at 2:05)

Only tough because he has not gone totally off the chart left wing as Maher would want it. Nothing short of federal coin operated Abortion booths , All of us working for the government , right to marry anyone or anything , total dismantling of the US military , UN operated universities , Federal hospitals , One currency for everyone in the world , no banks , No churches no religion , free houses , free drugs and of course Maher being president would make him happy. Big grin

And to add ... who gives a flip what Bill Maher thinks anyway ... he is a ex cocaine head comedian actor .. who cares.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Michlis
Posted 2009-08-05 09:38:36 and read 3905 times.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
There is your answer right there.
Many in the GOP are Bible-thumping religious folks that get their information from their Pastors, other church members and that feller down the street.
They ain't in to all this new fangled stuff like the enternet & cable tayvee.

Nice stereotype and quite offensive actually. Have you ever met or got to know some of these "Bible-thumpers"? Believe it or not there are a lot of Democrats who are religious folk who may not be technically savy or choose to avoid the garbage that comes out of cable TV. But I guess that's okay since they're Democrats.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: MattRB
Posted 2009-08-05 09:42:24 and read 3910 times.



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
Can we have the tin foil hats and the "Not this Sh%t again" pictures please!

Request granted!




And a little extra!

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: MSNDC9
Posted 2009-08-05 09:57:54 and read 3883 times.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 53):
Knowing full well her boy would become president someday. Right.

That's not really germaine to the issue. This is simply the action people take when they have a child born outside the US. John McCain was born in Panama and his birth was registered in the US. Did his parents think he would run for President some day?

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 54):
What is the difference between the "certificate of live birth" and "birth certificate"? They are saying it is two different things but how?

One is the record of the birth of a child to a US citizen regardless of location, the other is a record of a birth that took place in the United States. The short form is issued against both documents.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 53):
Hawaii is the first place I would call.

His mothers state of legal residence was Hawaii.

I could really care less about the whole issue, but facts are facts.

[Edited 2009-08-05 10:00:46]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Planespotting
Posted 2009-08-05 10:49:50 and read 3851 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 21):
IMHO, it's interesting that Obama has spent nearly $1,000,000.00 in litigation trying to "dodge" the release of personal records.



Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 25):

You know I often see that number bandied about on the 'net but I've yet to see a hard source that isn't the likes of WND, Free Republic, Right Wing Blogs-r-Us, etc. Do you have a source for this from a substantive news source?

I also see this number posted on conservative blogs and newspaper comment boards, but have never actually seen any hard proof to back this up. Care to offer any of your own, or just more heresay and unqualified statements?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: GDB
Posted 2009-08-05 11:47:53 and read 3822 times.

'Affirmate Action President?'
Translation - Uppity.

Sv7887, you represent the future of the Republican Party, these 'birthers', their nudge and wink fellow travelers, the Rush wing, all represent one thing, keeping on losing.
Because though things like this whole non issue make eyes pop and heads shake in other Western democracies, in the end US elections are won and lost, like elsewhere, usually in the center ground.
Tacking to the bozos I mentioned above only leads to oblivion, they got the VP nominee they wanted last year, for all the good it did them.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: D L X
Posted 2009-08-05 12:27:25 and read 3789 times.

I want everyone on here to watch this video - this person is the person behind the Birther Movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUaca8wP9w

Now ask yourself, why in hell would you put your stock in this person, and discount the statements of the State of Hawaii?

Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 17):
Nice underhanded stereotyping there.

Do you really think that race has nothing to do with it? I'm not saying that everyone in the Birther movement is racist, but a large segment is. These are many of the same people who said they can't trust Obama because he's an "errab." Case in point:

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 21):
I like to think of Obama as the Affirmative Action President.

Yeah... that's not racist at all.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 21):
You, as a citizen of this country, should have to take an exam to show that you are informed about the issues at hand and what's at stake.

You should study American history. We used to have poll taxes, literacy tests, and civics tests that people had to pass in order to vote. Not only is there nothing in the Constitution that says you have a right to vote unless you're stupid, but these impediments to voting were put there for one specific reason: to suppress minority voting. Is that what you're suggesting?


BTW, just for kicks, if we did have a test to measure how well versed in the issues voters were, which party's voters do you think would be turned away more often?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
Nobody seems to talk about the fact that that "birth certificate" was created in the past few years, using a laserjet. Where is the original, created and dated in 1961?

That's the wrong question. The correct question is why do you not accept the new birth certificate despite the facts that it was produced by the state of Hawaii, bears the seal of the state of Hawaii, and that *every federal court* accepts as authentic?


BTW, I'm quite surprised there are no posts by a certain A.net user who has stated he does not believe Obama was born in the US. It would be interesting to see his take, or see if he has changed his opinion.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 57):
Only tough because he has not gone totally off the chart left wing as Maher would want it.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree on Bill Maher. He's a libertarian.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: AverageUser
Posted 2009-08-05 12:41:01 and read 3775 times.

Ok, here we have yet another brilliant way Internet reshapes (American) politics. It's now official that everyone can cut, paste and photoshop, not just those ever lazy schoolkids.

Of course in the general world history of forgeries this one is a valuable recent addition as well, right next to that file of WMDs in Iraq.

But do I see a ghost of Winston Smith somewhere not too distant? Who's going to look after our digital past, in confidence and impartiality??

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EMBQA
Posted 2009-08-05 12:57:51 and read 3763 times.

Quoting OzGlobal (Thread starter):
For what it's worth, here is a link to a scanned copy of his actual birth certificate

Well... I have no real opinion on either side, but what really got all this started was the inital resistance to provide the information. Many took that as they were trying to hide something. Now, just looking at the copy on the link provided... the font used looks a little suspect to me. Keep in mind this was 47 years ago. It looks computer printed to me... and most in those days were done by hand on a hand typed typewriter. Letter quality would be mixed and the spacing and level quality would be erratic. Remember the George Bush forged Texas Air Guard letter...?? The font used in that letter had not even beed invented yet...but many still thought it as real.

[Edited 2009-08-05 13:00:27]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: D L X
Posted 2009-08-05 12:58:52 and read 3765 times.

Here's a question: if Obama's birth certificate that he has produced is fake, who did the faking? And what motivation did they have?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EMBQA
Posted 2009-08-05 13:02:34 and read 3757 times.



Quoting D L X (Reply 66):
who did the faking? And what motivation did they have?

Well... IF...... to get a popular canadate ellected to push through a parties policies.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: MSNDC9
Posted 2009-08-05 13:02:45 and read 3758 times.

Quoting D L X (Reply 66):
Here's a question: if Obama's birth certificate that he has produced is fake, who did the faking? And what motivation did they have?

No one cares man. Don't get all spun up.

Oh, and I don't like him because he's a typical Chicago politician that thinks he knows whats better for me than I do and will stop at nothing to shove his agenda down my throat.

[Edited 2009-08-05 13:10:30]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Garnetpalmetto
Posted 2009-08-05 13:05:15 and read 3756 times.



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 65):
Now, just looking at the copy on the link provided... the font used looks a little suspect to me. Keep in mind this was 47 years ago. It looks computer printed to me... and most in those days were done by hand on a hand typed typewriter.

It's never been claimed that the certified copy of President Obama's birth certificate is original to his birth, rather it's a certified copy dated June 6, 2007.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: GDB
Posted 2009-08-05 13:15:02 and read 3741 times.

Usual pattern here, de-bunk it totally, so another spurious claim is made.

And I await any of you who give even tiniest credence to any of this, or say 'yeah, but what about this..', to answer my point above on just how with all the huge scrutiny, not just media but by the Secret Service too, could any real irregularity or question be hidden?

You can't, and you won't, because sore loserdom does not allow that level of common sense and reasoning.
Pretty revealing though, but not in good way towards those in to this or implying stuff related to it.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Michlis
Posted 2009-08-05 13:22:44 and read 3736 times.



Quoting D L X (Reply 63):
BTW, just for kicks, if we did have a test to measure how well versed in the issues voters were, which party's voters do you think would be turned away more often?

That's a great question. Do you have an answer?

Quoting D L X (Reply 63):
I think you're barking up the wrong tree on Bill Maher. He's a libertarian.

Like Lyndon Larouche?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2009-08-05 13:31:49 and read 3733 times.



Quoting D L X (Reply 63):
Yeah... that's not racist at all.

Affirmative Action is reverse racism in itself. Depriving someone of a job based solely on skin color is the same thing as not hiring someone because of their skin color. Since when did 2 wrongs make a right??

Quoting D L X (Reply 63):
You should study American history. We used to have poll taxes, literacy tests, and civics tests that people had to pass in order to vote. Not only is there nothing in the Constitution that says you have a right to vote unless you're stupid, but these impediments to voting were put there for one specific reason: to suppress minority voting. Is that what you're suggesting?


Absolutely. If, and only if the minorities, or whites, doesn't matter, prove to be an idiot and uneducated on the issues, then they should have absolutely no right to vote at all. I stood in line with a bunch a guys that were speaking some form of English, who didn't even know the name McCain's VP Sarah Palin...they referred to her simply as 'Dat chick wit McCain'...and yet they get to vote...unbelievable.

Quoting D L X (Reply 63):
BTW, just for kicks, if we did have a test to measure how well versed in the issues voters were, which party's voters do you think would be turned away more often?

I don't know, because there are an awful lot of uneducated voters on both sides. I would venture to say possibly, that more democratic voters would be turned away because of the number of uneducated (not stupid) non-tax paying voters that vote almost exclusively democrat. But again, there are high numbers of uneducated voters on both sides. For the record, I'm absolutely not a Republican and obviously not a Democrat. I consider myself Libertarian. In case you're interested, here is an interesting article.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Max550
Posted 2009-08-05 13:41:25 and read 3706 times.



Quoting D L X (Reply 63):
BTW, just for kicks, if we did have a test to measure how well versed in the issues voters were, which party's voters do you think would be turned away more often?

That would depend who gets to make the test.

Quoting D L X (Reply 66):
Here's a question: if Obama's birth certificate that he has produced is fake, who did the faking? And what motivation did they have?

And why, after making the fake birth certificate and getting all the Hawaiian officials to go along with it, did they not bother to make a fake certificate of live birth or whatever that black card is?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EMBQA
Posted 2009-08-05 13:46:01 and read 3704 times.



Quoting D L X (Reply 63):
BTW, just for kicks, if we did have a test to measure how well versed in the issues voters were, which party's voters do you think would be turned away more often?

We did have a way...just stand back and listen.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2009-08-05 14:22:14 and read 3674 times.



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 74):
We did have a way...just stand back and listen.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KO...Mg1Y8

That's unbelievable. This further proves my point:

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 72):
I would venture to say possibly, that more democratic voters would be turned away because of the number of uneducated (not stupid) non-tax paying voters that vote almost exclusively democrat.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In
Username: D L X
Posted 2009-08-05 14:25:11 and read 3686 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 72):
Affirmative Action is reverse racism in itself. Depriving someone of a job based solely on skin color is the same thing as not hiring someone because of their skin color.

So, you're saying that McCain lost because he was white? Because I fail to see how affirmative action had anything to do with Obama's election. Your accusation reeks of racism.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 72):
If, and only if the minorities, or whites, doesn't matter, prove to be an idiot and uneducated on the issues, then they should have absolutely no right to vote at all.

Glad I don't live in your whacked out version of democracy! If you can't see how the only purpose of having that would be to manipulate who can vote, I can't help.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Mt99
Posted 2009-08-05 14:27:51 and read 3681 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 72):
Absolutely. If, and only if the minorities, or whites, doesn't matter, prove to be an idiot and uneducated on the issues, then they should have absolutely no right to vote at all.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 72):
I stood in line with a bunch a guys that were speaking some form of English, who didn't even know the name McCain's VP Sarah Palin...they referred to her simply as 'Dat chick wit McCain'...and yet they get to vote...unbelievable.

Maybe we should appoint you as the person who "approves" every single voter... Would that still be a democracy?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Michlis
Posted 2009-08-05 14:30:44 and read 3675 times.

Quoting D L X (Reply 76):
Quoting EA772LR (Reply 72):
Affirmative Action is reverse racism in itself. Depriving someone of a job based solely on skin color is the same thing as not hiring someone because of their skin color.

So, you're saying that McCain lost because he was white? Because I fail to see how affirmative action had anything to do with Obama's election. Your accusation reeks of racism.



Quoting D L X (Reply 76):
Quoting EA772LR (Reply 72):
If, and only if the minorities, or whites, doesn't matter, prove to be an idiot and uneducated on the issues, then they should have absolutely no right to vote at all.

Glad I don't live in your whacked out version of democracy! If you can't see how the only purpose of having that would be to manipulate who can vote, I can't help.



Quoting Michlis (Reply 71):
Quoting D L X (Reply 63):
BTW, just for kicks, if we did have a test to measure how well versed in the issues voters were, which party's voters do you think would be turned away more often?

That's a great question. Do you have an answer?

I asked you if you have an answer to this question and since you used it to bait someone else don't you think it's fair that you answer it too? I'll extend you the courtesy of the last word as you did for me a month or so back.

[Edited 2009-08-05 14:39:00]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Max550
Posted 2009-08-05 14:31:10 and read 3677 times.



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 74):
We did have a way...just stand back and listen.....

I don't think that anyone really doubts that most people who vote are uninformed on a lot of issues. They could do the same poll with McCain voters, ask them what they think of John Boehner, Dennis Hastert and Spencer Bachus (just chose him because he's Barney Franks closest equivalent), then replace the rest of the questions with things like is Obama a muslim, was he born here, was McCain ever divorced, does McCain favor cap and trade and I think you'd get the same responses.

It would be great if people were more informed, but we can't decide who is allowed to vote based on that.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2009-08-05 14:32:46 and read 3682 times.



Quoting D L X (Reply 76):
So, you're saying that McCain lost because he was white? Because I fail to see how affirmative action had anything to do with Obama's election. Your accusation reeks of racism.

Well with no release of his college records to see his grades, and such a big deal made to prevent the release of his records, what is he hiding other than the fact he got into Columbia/Harvard via affirmative action?

Quoting D L X (Reply 76):
Glad I don't live in your whacked out version of democracy! If you can't see how the only purpose of having that would be to manipulate who can vote, I can't help.

You're blowing smoke. As I said, before you vote, you should have to take an exam to prove your overall awareness and understanding of the candidates and their issues...in fact, what you're saying is a total contradiction. Ignorance is an easy way to keep people on the dole and very easy to manipulate, as evidence by EMBQA's link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8
And furthermore, the Howard Stern's video of Obama supporters as well.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EMBQA
Posted 2009-08-05 14:37:38 and read 3674 times.



Quoting Max550 (Reply 79):
It would be great if people were more informed, but we can't decide who is allowed to vote based on that.

..and that my friend is the scary part of todays world..............

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Max550
Posted 2009-08-05 14:46:27 and read 3669 times.



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 81):
..and that my friend is the scary part of todays world..............

It's scary that we allow everyone to vote? I know it's not a perfect system but I don't think it's been done better anywhere else.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EMBQA
Posted 2009-08-05 15:31:36 and read 3633 times.



Quoting Max550 (Reply 82):
It's scary that we allow everyone to vote?

No.. it's just scary just how ill informed many voters are as shown in the video I provided.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: D L X
Posted 2009-08-05 15:49:51 and read 3626 times.



Quoting Michlis (Reply 78):
I asked you if you have an answer to this question and since you used it to bait someone else don't you think it's fair that you answer it too?

I'm sorry, but did YOU answer the question? I don't think you did. You know what my answer is. The answer is in the question.

Hell, it's in the thread title! If 58% of republicans can't figure out that Obama was born in America, do you really think that that 58% could correctly answer EA772LR's whacked out test?

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 80):
Well with no release of his college records to see his grades, and such a big deal made to prevent the release of his records, what is he hiding other than the fact he got into Columbia/Harvard via affirmative action?

This is the answer someone gives when they've stepped in it, and got caught. His academic record (which is stellar, graduating in the top 10% at Harvard Law) has absolutely nothing to do with his election, and the only reason for your comment is because he is black. I reiterate that your accusation reeks of racism. Be a man, own up to it, and move on.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 80):
You're blowing smoke. As I said, before you vote, you should have to take an exam to prove your overall awareness and understanding of the candidates and their issues.

Yes, and that is an utterly whacked out idea. Even if it is not meant to deny certain people the franchise, it will certainly have that effect. Furthermore, who are you to say what the important issues to a particular person should be? Just because some guy in line behind you doesn't know McCain's position on cap and trade doesn't mean that he doesn't have a justifiable reason to vote against the guy, such as voting against the first Latino SCOTUS nominee.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Baroque
Posted 2009-08-05 16:09:05 and read 3611 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 80):
As I said, before you vote, you should have to take an exam to prove your overall awareness and understanding of the candidates and their issues...in fact, what you're saying is a total contradiction.

Presumably you get to vote on the suitability of the test before it is applied? Or are you just going to leave test compilation to D L X and me? We are pretty capable at test setting, rest assured!!

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Seb146
Posted 2009-08-05 22:46:44 and read 3536 times.



Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 60):
His mothers state of legal residence was Hawaii.



Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 60):
That's not really germaine to the issue. This is simply the action people take when they have a child born outside the US. John McCain was born in Panama and his birth was registered in the US. Did his parents think he would run for President some day?

And....? My mother's state of legal residince was Kansas, when I was born. Does that mean if I had been born in Jefferson City, that would change anything? Would I have been born a Kansan? McCain got around that little legal snafu, by virtue of the fact that his mother is an American, even though he was not even born on American soil.

Quoting Max550 (Reply 56):
I think it depends on the state more than anything. The information on them varies as well. My "certification of birth" doesn't even have my parents names on it, just my name, sex, county of birth and a few dates and numbers.

Some of the tin hat wearing, kool-ade drinking members of the right wing have it in their minds that every single birth certificate does have every key piece of information on it no matter what. To them, you are not a true and full American since, in their minds, your certification of birth has such little information, even though it is accepted by the United States Government for things like passports.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 72):
there are high numbers of uneducated voters on both sides

You raise a great point! There are many (too many?) people on both sides who just jump into debate on anything just because of their feelings with absolutly no knowledge of what is happening at all. Passion for an issue is great, but so is education for an issue.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2009-08-05 23:34:05 and read 3517 times.

Quoting D L X (Reply 84):
This is the answer someone gives when they've stepped in it, and got caught. His academic record (which is stellar, graduating in the top 10% at Harvard Law) has absolutely nothing to do with his election, and the only reason for your comment is because he is black. I reiterate that your accusation reeks of racism. Be a man, own up to it, and move on.

I'm not racist at all. I'm a professional jazz musician who spends plenty of time sharing music with blacks. Hell, I'd have voted in a heart beat for Condi Rice or JC Watts, Alan Keyes, and many other black candidates or would be candidates. I'm far from racist. I fundamentally disagree with Obama on his policies and think he's entirely incompetent to be POTUS. My opinion, which I'm entitled to. He's just spent so much money on hiding records and makes such a deal out of it, it comes across as shady and like he's hiding something.

Quoting D L X (Reply 84):
Just because some guy in line behind you doesn't know McCain's position on cap and trade doesn't mean that he doesn't have a justifiable reason to vote against the guy, such as voting against the first Latino SCOTUS nominee.

Uh, did you watch that video?? Several of those people were not black, but you can see they're so uneducated on the candidate and their issues, it's appalling they even vote. Ignorance is bliss to a truly ignorant man.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 85):
Presumably you get to vote on the suitability of the test before it is applied? Or are you just going to leave test compilation to D L X and me? We are pretty capable at test setting, rest assured!!

Use your imagination. A simple 'competence' test would be fine with me. Ignorant people are like sheep, they can't think for themselves and they've always got an excuse for their lack of education. There is absolutely no reason why those people on the video EMBQA provided should be that ignorant of the candidate they voted for, or for the aforementioned politicians mentioned. 97% of blacks voted for Obama, but I would hazard to guess majority voted solely on skin color. If 97% of whites voted based on skin color, we'd never have a black president, and would likely be called racist for doing so.

I don't care if your black, white, tan, green, blue, red, pink, or purple-when you go to cast your vote you owe to the country to at least be educated on the candidates records and policies. Is that too much to ask  Yeah sure

[Edited 2009-08-05 23:44:32]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: 7324ever
Posted 2009-08-05 23:55:17 and read 3506 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 80):

You're blowing smoke. As I said, before you vote, you should have to take an exam to prove your overall awareness and understanding of the candidates and their issues...in fact, what you're saying is a total contradiction. Ignorance is an easy way to keep people on the dole and very easy to manipulate, as evidence by EMBQA's link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8
And furthermore, the Howard Stern's video of Obama supporters as well.

 bigthumbsup  Thank you that is a great way to show that now-a-days people get their info more from CNN and TMZ than from watching debates. If people spent half as much time as they do watching the latest Paris Hilton fashion stumble and listening to how bad they think Palin is because TMZ says she is no good but look at the facts and form their own opinion away from the Tv then people are in a bolder position to make more judgment on the candidates

Quoting D L X (Reply 84):
Hell, it's in the thread title! If 58% of republicans can't figure out that Obama was born in America, do you really think that that 58% could correctly answer EA772LR's whacked out test?

I don't know CAN they? I have alot of discussions with Republicans that I meet and they all seem to know the facts from Bushes political views and Obamas. I ask one Obama supporter how does he feel on foreign policy and they answer "Well I heard from CNN that he is better than Mccain because the Iraq war is bad" then I ask why is the Iraq war bad and I hear "Because people are dying" and it continues like that till they admit their info comes from what they hear on CNN, Fox, or TMZ.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 85):
Presumably you get to vote on the suitability of the test before it is applied? Or are you just going to leave test compilation to D L X and me? We are pretty capable at test setting, rest assured!!

Just because the results of a test don't go the way you want doesn't mean you can manipulate it to do so. In school did you debate your math test when you got a 69% saying that the problems were not shown to the class before hand so you couldn't possibly know what was on it and you feel you should retake the math test with problems you feel comfortable with?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: OzGlobal
Posted 2009-08-06 02:17:52 and read 3488 times.



Quoting Max550 (Reply 82):
I know it's not a perfect system but I don't think it's been done better anywhere else.

The democratic system, as Churchill said, is "the worst form of government in the world, except for every other form of government." Obviously, it's inherent weakness is its assumption that citizens are educated, proactive and involved in the democracy. What is unique in the US compared with other western democracies is the ability to so easily maniplutate millions of people with obviously untrue accusations; I don't believe the Birther issue or others launched by GOP in recent years which are equally absurd would fly in other Western countries.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Michlis
Posted 2009-08-06 04:10:43 and read 3467 times.



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 89):
I don't believe the Birther issue or others launched by GOP in recent years which are equally absurd would fly in other Western countries.

That's fair enough, but do you believe the theories launched by the Democrats?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Kiwiandrew
Posted 2009-08-06 04:19:41 and read 3471 times.

I find this story very hard to take seriously . Are we really meant to believe that 58% of GOP supporters are actually aware of the existence of life outside the US ?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Sbworcs
Posted 2009-08-06 05:10:42 and read 3449 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 87):
He's just spent so much money on hiding records

But where is the proof of the cost?

I think that some people just don't want him to be President and are trying anything to discredit him - regardless of how stupid and futile it seems.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Michlis
Posted 2009-08-06 06:06:15 and read 3433 times.



Quoting Sbworcs (Reply 92):
I think that some people just don't want him to be President and are trying anything to discredit him - regardless of how stupid and futile it seems.

The same can be said of people who disagreed with the former President.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Max550
Posted 2009-08-06 07:55:35 and read 3396 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 87):
97% of blacks voted for Obama, but I would hazard to guess majority voted solely on skin color. If 97% of whites voted based on skin color, we'd never have a black president, and would likely be called racist for doing so.

What makes you think that the majority voted based on skin color? Gore got 95% of the black vote in 2000 and Kerry got 93% in 2004. 97% sounds high until you put it into perspective.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Baroque
Posted 2009-08-06 08:22:35 and read 3368 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 87):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 85):
Presumably you get to vote on the suitability of the test before it is applied? Or are you just going to leave test compilation to D L X and me? We are pretty capable at test setting, rest assured!!

Use your imagination. A simple 'competence' test would be fine with me. Ignorant people are like sheep, they can't think for themselves and they've always got an excuse for their lack of education. There is absolutely no reason why those people on the video EMBQA provided should be that ignorant of the candidate they voted for, or for the aforementioned politicians mentioned. 97% of blacks voted for Obama, but I would hazard to guess majority voted solely on skin color. If 97% of whites voted based on skin color, we'd never have a black president, and would likely be called racist for doing so.

In a roundabout way you support what I am saying, possibly you may not realise it. Have you experience of setting tests? And have you looked at discrimination analyses of your favourite test? Can be very sobering.

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 88):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 85):
Presumably you get to vote on the suitability of the test before it is applied? Or are you just going to leave test compilation to D L X and me? We are pretty capable at test setting, rest assured!!

Just because the results of a test don't go the way you want doesn't mean you can manipulate it to do so. In school did you debate your math test when you got a 69% saying that the problems were not shown to the class before hand so you couldn't possibly know what was on it and you feel you should retake the math test with problems you feel comfortable with?

Well I don't have direct experience of maths tests, but although you might think they present an objective invariant target, I will bet they can be corrupted quite easily. Anyone with maths teaching experience around, must be someone???? Distractors can appear from the most unexpected places. With an electoral roll, just tell me the answer you want and I will get it for you.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Seb146
Posted 2009-08-06 08:26:12 and read 3366 times.



Quoting Michlis (Reply 90):
do you believe the theories launched by the Democrats?



Quoting Michlis (Reply 93):
The same can be said of people who disagreed with the former President.

Such as? Possibly no WMDs in Iraq? Could it be the vote counting fraud in Florida in 2000 (Gore actually had more votes after the US Supreme Court installed Bush) and voters being turned away and others not getting to vote in Ohio in 2004? Those documented cases? Or do you mean telling us one thing and doing something completely different? In other words: lying, for which, another president was nearly removed from office?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Michlis
Posted 2009-08-06 08:47:07 and read 3359 times.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
Such as?

Forged memorandums concerning his military career. That's one that comes to immediate mind.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
Possibly no WMDs in Iraq?

Listened to bad intelligence...let's not go down this path because I think we all agree it was the wrong thing to do.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
Could it be the vote counting fraud in Florida in 2000 (Gore actually had more votes after the US Supreme Court installed Bush) and voters being turned away and others not getting to vote in Ohio in 2004?

Says who?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
Those documented cases?

But not necessarily all factual.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
Or do you mean telling us one thing and doing something completely different?

What politican doesn't?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
In other words: lying, for which, another president was nearly removed from office?

Most politicans tend to be less than fully truthful, but in Bill Clinton's case it was lying under oath. As an attorney, never mind being the President, he should have known better.

My point is that both sides do it. If you're willing to admit that we can have a discussion, if not, I don't know what else to say.

P.S. I like to annoy people too and I'm damn good at it.

[Edited 2009-08-06 08:49:04]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Santosdumont
Posted 2009-08-06 09:29:34 and read 3342 times.



Quoting Michlis (Reply 97):
My point is that both sides do it. If you're willing to admit that we can have a discussion, if not, I don't know what else to say.

One of the most intriguing parts of Joe Klein's Primary Colors is the claim that Clinton fathered a child by an African-American woman and then moved heaven and earth to forge the birth certificate or otherwise destroy whatever damning evidence there was about that particular story. Plausible? Absolutely. This is politics. All's fair, you just let the spinmeisters tweak the truth for you.

Hell, even Karl Rove didn't let John McCain's Republican credentials get in the way of a good "whisper campaign"; Kaiser Karl was the one who triggered the rumor-mongering about the true origin of Mac's adopted Bangladeshi daughter.

Evidence abounds of skullduggery by "both" sides, people ignore it at their own peril.

That said, it saddens me to see formerly lucid CNN anchor Lou Dobbs having what amounts to an on-camera onset of senility as he buys into the whole birther charade.

And of course, people have found Obama's "Kenyan" birth certificate on the Internet. Remember Pierre Salinger found that pic of a missile blazing toward TWA flight 800 on the 'net....so it must be the real Mccoy, right?

The GOP could generate so much more valuable political capital if it came out and dissociated itself from the birthers and said something like "we got more important business to take care of."

But for whatever reason, you have -- as the title of this thread suggests - more than half of Republicans believing the President was not born in the United States.

At this rate, the GOP will continue its downhill slide into oblivion.

When such visceral anger exists at the fact that a dark-skinned person is in the White House, people will cling to absolutely anything to try to discredit that person. Anything. They can't publicly say "I am so fucking pissed that there's a Nigger in the White House,"so they have to find other ways to channel their bile; witness the sheer mayhem that right-wing operatives try to sow at townhall meetings on health care, for example.

And by doing nothing, the GOP leadership simply bloats the stereotype of Republicans as being racist WASP males who decry Blacks from any soapbox while secretly lusting for what was once called "Black Oak" (see Strom Thurmond). That same dynamic applies for the GOP official stance on gays (cf. Larry Craig, Ken Mehlman).

I can't help but feel some Schadenfreude at seeing the Republican platform slowly decay into charred debris, but I know that such a scenario is ultimately not good for the two-party political process. And the Republicans need only look in the mirror to find the culprit.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: D L X
Posted 2009-08-06 11:17:25 and read 3304 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 87):
I'm not racist at all. I'm a professional jazz musician who spends plenty of time sharing music with blacks.

Ahh, the "some of my best friends are black" retort. That has utterly nothing to do with your accusation that Obama is an "affirmative action president," a charge you made in discussing whether or not he is a natural born citizen. What does affirmative action have to do with whether or not he was born in the US? Out of nowhere, and with no prompting, you went racial on the guy. You may not think you're a racist, but that was a racist comment. Own up to it and move on.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 87):
Quoting D L X (Reply 84):
Just because some guy in line behind you doesn't know McCain's position on cap and trade doesn't mean that he doesn't have a justifiable reason to vote against the guy, such as voting against the first Latino SCOTUS nominee.

Uh, did you watch that video?? Several of those people were not black, but you can see they're so uneducated on the candidate and their issues, it's appalling they even vote.

How does that refute what I said? Do you really think the only justifiable reason to vote for someone is because they know all of the issues that YOU think are important?

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 87):
Use your imagination. A simple 'competence' test would be fine with me.

Any test to vote is unconstitutional. End of story.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 87):
I don't care if your black, white, tan, green, blue, red, pink, or purple-when you go to cast your vote you owe to the country to at least be educated on the candidates records and policies. Is that too much to ask

And I don't care who you think you are, your reasons to vote for someone are in no way "better" or "more important" than anyone else's reasons to vote for someone.

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 88):
In school did you debate your math test when you got a 69% saying that the problems were not shown to the class before hand so you couldn't possibly know what was on it and you feel you should retake the math test with problems you feel comfortable with?

Bad analogy. A math test is inherently objective. Virtually any test requiring language is subjective. Any

Quoting Michlis (Reply 97):
My point is that both sides do it.

That in no way makes it equal. It's like Chris Rock talking about the lies men tell versus the lies women tell. He says both sides lie, but men tell lies like "uh, I was at Tyrone's house" while women tell lies like "it's your baby."

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Michlis
Posted 2009-08-06 11:31:07 and read 3293 times.

Quoting D L X (Reply 99):
That in no way makes it equal. It's like Chris Rock talking about the lies men tell versus the lies women tell. He says both sides lie, but men tell lies like "uh, I was at Tyrone's house" while women tell lies like "it's your baby."

It's not about the equality of the behavior. It's about whether it's right or wrong and I would most certainly say it's wrong no matter who does it. The point is you cannot say that one side is wrong for doing something if you do it as well. Given that, your example doesn't cut it with me because a lie is a lie period. You and I both know that if we stood in front of a judge and both lied he or she is not going to care whose lie is bigger...we'd both be in a world of shit and likely both be facing the discipline board and having our licenses suspended or worse.

Shouldn't we hold those in the political realm equally accountable?





[Edited 2009-08-06 11:35:50]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: GDB
Posted 2009-08-06 11:46:08 and read 3275 times.

Still waiting for a proper explanation of how any questions, irregularities, on Obama's birth escaped the attentions of the Secret Service and any other agency that vets potential runners for high office.

Come out come out where ever you are.....

Or are you all really that divorced from reality?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: D L X
Posted 2009-08-06 12:10:42 and read 3252 times.



Quoting Michlis (Reply 100):
It's not about the equality of the behavior. It's about whether it's right or wrong and I would most certainly say it's wrong no matter who does it.

If we're talking about within a court of law, then yes, all perjury is perjury. But we're not talking about courts of law. (I mean, let's think about it: how many politicians in the last 10 years have had to testify before a court?)

So, in my mind, it absolutely is about the equality of the behavior. If one side lies and says "there be WMD in Iraq", and when they get called out on it, they respond "yeah, well your guy lied about sleeping with an intern," you will find me emphatically unimpressed. Those are not equal lies, and they do not have equal consequences.

When someone says they should be overly critical of every thing Obama does (like order dijon mustard instead of yellow for crying out loud) and then justify it by saying "you guys did it to Bush when you criticized him about the Iraq War," you will find me equally unimpressed. Those are not equal, and they do not have equal consequences. It appears to me that your side plays the tit for tat game with anything remotely upsetting done by a liberal, while the liberals tend to find real legitimate things about Republicans to get upset about.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Thebatman
Posted 2009-08-06 13:33:10 and read 3229 times.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
Many in the GOP are Bible-thumping religious folks that get their information from their Pastors, other church members and that feller down the street.

Yeah, Obama got a lot of information from that nutjob Jeremiah Wright by attending his church for 20+ years, but that's OK because he says he wasn't paying attention. Just like Clinton didn't inhale, right? Also, that "feller down the street" just happens to be terrorists like Bill Ayers. It's truly amazing how people can sit back and watch Obama destroy freedom and liberty and yet people will stick up for him. America needs to wake up. If you're not upset, you're not paying attention.

'A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.' -Thomas Jefferson

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Superfly
Posted 2009-08-06 13:43:54 and read 3221 times.



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 103):
Yeah, Obama got a lot of information from that nutjob Jeremiah Wright by attending his church for 20+ years, but that's OK because he says he wasn't paying attention. Just like Clinton didn't inhale, right? Also, that "feller down the street" just happens to be terrorists like Bill Ayers. It's truly amazing how people can sit back and watch Obama destroy freedom and liberty and yet people will stick up for him. America needs to wake up. If you're not upset, you're not paying attention.

So what does this have to do with President Obama's birth certificate?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Michlis
Posted 2009-08-06 13:44:42 and read 3216 times.



Quote:
But we're not talking about courts of law. (I mean, let's think about it: how many politicians in the last 10 years have had to testify before a court?)

I'm talking about lying in general. I believe lying is wrong period no matter what the circumstances. But that is just me.

Quoting D L X (Reply 102):
So, in my mind, it absolutely is about the equality of the behavior. If one side lies and says "there be WMD in Iraq", and when they get called out on it, they respond "yeah, well your guy lied about sleeping with an intern," you will find me emphatically unimpressed. Those are not equal lies, and they do not have equal consequences.

Great, we can call it the Chris Rock defense. Love to see that in a brief, better yet hear it in an oral argument. I'm not looking to get into a fracas about Mr. Bush alleged lying but when you get right down to it he was only accused by his detractors of lying never charged or convicted; Mr. Clinton perjured himself. That isn't a political statement, it's a statement of fact based on how I saw events play out.

Quoting D L X (Reply 102):
When someone says they should be overly critical of every thing Obama does (like order dijon mustard instead of yellow for crying out loud) and then justify it by saying "you guys did it to Bush when you criticized him about the Iraq War," you will find me equally unimpressed.

It's part of the game and if one wants to play then one must expect criticism whether it's justified or not. I don't like it, I think it's wrong but it is what it is.

Quoting D L X (Reply 102):
It appears to me that your side plays the tit for tat game with anything remotely upsetting done by a liberal, while the liberals tend to find real legitimate things about Republicans to get upset about.

Let's be clear, I am nobody's political whore so it isn't my side. I am on my own side. I like to use my head and be able to look at both sides, call them out when needed and tell them it's bullshit when I see it. That's called freedom.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2009-08-06 13:44:55 and read 3217 times.



Quoting D L X (Reply 99):

How does that refute what I said? Do you really think the only justifiable reason to vote for someone is because they know all of the issues that YOU think are important?

Once again, pay attention D L X. It's not what I feel is important. That's why I said there needs to be a standards test to prove you are aware of what the candidates stand for, because it's obvious many of your brethren who voted for Obama were embarrassingly uneducated on Obama himself, but yet knew all of the Media spun gossip on Sarah Palin...go figure. Is it any coincidence that there are disproportionately more people who don't work, don't pay taxes, and are highly uneducated that vote Democrat than Conservatively? Similarly, there are a substantial number of uneducated Republican voters, but how many of those voters are living on government subsistence? I would guess not many.

What does this have to do with Obama's Birth Certificate?? Well I do agree Republicans need to attack Obama on his policies harder, and propose new and unique alternatives to Obama's. But I find that those very same people who call Conservatives loonies, morons, conspiracy theorists, etc, for being skeptical of Obama BC, are the very ones who said Bush trumped up all the evidence in Iraq, Bush planned 9/11, etc. This goes right to the heart of my point. The overwhelming amount of ignorance on both sides really does a disservice to everyone.

Quoting D L X (Reply 99):
And I don't care who you think you are, your reasons to vote for someone are in no way "better" or "more important" than anyone else's reasons to vote for someone.

My reasons are more important if they are from an logical and educated perspective vs. someone voting purely for emotional reasons, because we all know how good decisions are made when they are made in an emotional state... Yeah sure

Quoting D L X (Reply 99):
Ahh, the "some of my best friends are black" retort.

Cheap shot. But nice try. I do in fact have many black friends, and they even feel blacks are the first ones to play the race card. They are embarrassed to see so many of their fellow people so uneducated, and so unwilling to assume some accountability for their own actions. It's always the 'Rights' fault, or 'the government holding me down' mantra. Interestingly a Democratic pushed program, Great Society, in a sense re-enslaved blacks all over again by making them dependent on the government for everything. It's awful how dependent it has made black Americans on the system  Angry One of my heroes is Martin Luther King (who was a conservative might I add) who said it best,"African Americans will never move forward until they stop living in the past". He's right. We're all so afraid of the conversation of race, and you cannot put that on white people.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Thebatman
Posted 2009-08-06 14:00:57 and read 3193 times.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 104):
So what does this have to do with President Obama's birth certificate?

Read through the various replies, they've touched on subjects other than the birth certificate. He refuses to present the paper copy for a reason. Why? All speculation. Was he born in Kenya? Did they pay someone off in Hawaii to create a birth certificate? Does he have dual-citizenship? Why does he refuse to release his medical records? Who knows. But you just proved my point. Rather than address the points I made, you would rather ignore what's really going on in this country, walk around with your "Hooray Obama" blinders, and instead ask me what this has to do with a birth certificate.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Superfly
Posted 2009-08-06 14:05:15 and read 3191 times.



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 110):
Rather than address the points I made, you would rather ignore

 redflag 

You've ignored my post which were on topic. President Obama was born here in the United States.
You post in reply #103 just looks like an incoherent drunken tirade.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Thebatman
Posted 2009-08-06 14:23:06 and read 3182 times.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 109):
You've ignored my post which were on topic.

Hmmm...I'm ignoring your post, huh? This IS your post, correct?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
Many in the GOP are Bible-thumping religious folks that get their information from their Pastors, other church members and that feller down the street.

I was adressing specifically the point of getting information from your church. Like Obama did at HIS church. But you don't want to hear that. Any mention of truth is considered a "drunken tirade"

Quoting Superfly (Reply 109):
You post in reply #103 just looks like an incoherent drunken tirade.

God help us. Obama is proof that you CAN fool some of the people ALL of the time.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Superfly
Posted 2009-08-06 14:27:55 and read 3179 times.



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 111):
Like Obama did at HIS church.

Can you please point out any legislation by President Obama that comes out of Trinity United Church of Christ?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: DLPMMM
Posted 2009-08-06 17:51:40 and read 3122 times.

This has got to be one of the stupidist thread ever concieved.

The initial premise is based on a poll published by the Daily Kos. It has no credibility.

So what if a left wing nutbag publication tried to convince others that most republicans are a bunch of right wing nutbag conspiracy theorists.

Those few of you looking for Obama's birth certificate, you are nutbags.

Those few of you that believe anything published by the Daily Kos, you are nutbags.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Yellowstone
Posted 2009-08-06 18:17:31 and read 3115 times.



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 111):
The initial premise is based on a poll published by the Daily Kos. It has no credibility.

Daily Kos doesn't run their own polls; they contract with the polling firm Research 2000, which is quite reputable. Nate Silver over at fivethirtyeight.com puts their "Pollster-Induced Error" (the error induced by flaws in a firms' methodology) at +1.73, which ranks better than ABC/Washington Post, Zogby, and Gallup. (Admittedly, those figures were calculated for presidential polls rather than topical polls like this one, but the point is, R2K is not some crackpot left-wing outfit.)

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Santosdumont
Posted 2009-08-06 19:26:17 and read 3100 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 106):
What does this have to do with Obama's Birth Certificate?? Well I do agree Republicans need to attack Obama on his policies harder, and propose new and unique alternatives to Obama's. But I find that those very same people who call Conservatives loonies, morons, conspiracy theorists, etc, for being skeptical of Obama BC, are the very ones who said Bush trumped up all the evidence in Iraq, Bush planned 9/11, etc.

There's a difference between being skeptical and dialing the screech-o-meter to 11 by irresponsibly tossing around words like "socialist" -- following the lead of the highest-profile right-wing figures like Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity.

It's curious how a small group of astroturfers at town hall meetings are hell bent to sow physical mayhem rather than discuss the issues like civilized members of a democracy.

Quoting Thebatman (Reply 103):
It's truly amazing how people can sit back and watch Obama destroy freedom and liberty and yet people will stick up for him. America needs to wake up. If you're not upset, you're not paying attention.

Looks like the only thing needing to inhale around here is your post. Destroying freedom and liberty? Damn, debate the man on the issues, but for the love of Pete, lose the whole menstrual vibe. Have the feds seized your firearm? Has your gas-guzzling car been reposessed by faceless brownshirts in black helicopters? Have any GOP lawmakers been forced to flee to Canada or Mexico out of fear for their lives? Has the government sanctioned mobs to trash FOX News headquarters? Have government agents approached you to talk about that letter to the editor you wrote? Didn't think so.

Not one major news figure got on the tube and claimed that Bush planned 9-11. The birthers are getting far more air time on major networks than 9-11 conspiracy types could ever have hoped to muster. Lou Dobbs, of all people, has jumped on this fatally flawed bandwagon in what is most likely his swan song moment.

Quoting Michlis (Reply 105):
I believe lying is wrong period no matter what the circumstances. But that is just me

Then you probably don't want to get into politics.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: AustinAirport
Posted 2009-08-06 20:58:51 and read 3069 times.

Wow. I, just today, had an hour long argument with one of my friends, about this subject.
Wish I had had those links then.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Thebatman
Posted 2009-08-06 21:25:52 and read 3066 times.



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 113):
Have the feds seized your firearm? Has your gas-guzzling car been reposessed by faceless brownshirts in black helicopters? Have any GOP lawmakers been forced to flee to Canada or Mexico out of fear for their lives? Has the government sanctioned mobs to trash FOX News headquarters? Have government agents approached you to talk about that letter to the editor you wrote? Didn't think so.

#1- I don't believe I have to tell you that taking my guns is certainly part of their agenda. #2- The government is repossessing lots of gas-guzzlers by using MY tax dollars for this cash-for-clunkers crap. #3- I may not fear for my life, but I certainly do fear for my country. #4- they haven't trashed their headquarters, but they just tell us that what we hear and read really isn't "true". #5- the White House wants you to report anyone who sends you an email bashing Obama-care.

But hey, Obama's a great guy, right? Sure...sounds like another "leader" that preached "change". You may have seen this letter, or maybe not, but read it:

"Each year I get to celebrate Independence Day twice. On June 30 I celebrate my independence day and on July 4 I celebrate America's. This year is special, because it marks the 40th anniversary of my independence.

On June 30, 1968, I escaped Communist Cuba and a few months later I was in the United States to stay. That I happened to arrive in Richmond on Thanksgiving Day is just part of the story, but I digress.

I've thought a lot about the anniversary this year. The election-year rhetoric has made me think a lot about Cuba and what transpired there. In the late 1950s, most Cubans thought Cuba needed a change, and they were right. So when a young leader came along, every Cuban was at least receptive.

When the young leader spoke eloquently and passionately and denounced the old system, the press fell in love with him. They never questioned who his friends were or what he really believed in. When he said he would help the farmers and the poor and bring free medical care and education to all, everyone followed. When he said he would bring justice and equality to all, everyone said "Praise the Lord." And when the young leader said, "I will be for change and I'll bring you change," everyone yelled, "Viva Fidel!"

But nobody asked about the change, so by the time the executioner's guns went silent the people's guns had been taken away. By the time everyone was equal, they were equally poor, hungry, and oppressed. By the time everyone received their free education it was worth nothing. By the time the press noticed, it was too late, because they were now working for him. By the time the change was finally implemented Cuba had been knocked down a couple of notches to Third-World status. By the time the change was over more than a million people had taken to boats, rafts, and inner tubes. You can call those who made it ashore anywhere else in the world the most fortunate Cubans. And now I'm back to the beginning of my story.

Luckily, we would never fall in America for a young leader who promised change without asking, what change? How will you carry it out? What will it cost America?

Would we? "

Manuel Alvarez Jr. Sandy Hook.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Yellowstone
Posted 2009-08-06 23:59:45 and read 3046 times.



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 115):
#1- I don't believe I have to tell you that taking my guns is certainly part of their agenda. #2- The government is repossessing lots of gas-guzzlers by using MY tax dollars for this cash-for-clunkers crap. #3- I may not fear for my life, but I certainly do fear for my country. #4- they haven't trashed their headquarters, but they just tell us that what we hear and read really isn't "true". #5- the White House wants you to report anyone who sends you an email bashing Obama-care.

*sigh*
#1 - No, the administration is not going to come take your guns. That lie has been told about countless Democratic politicians, and how many have tried it? Zero.
#2 - There's a huge difference between offering taxpayers a 10-20% rebate on the purchase of a new car to encourage the retirement of gas guzzlers, and outright repossessing those gas guzzlers by force.
#3 - Which has no bearing on the fact that political opponents of Obama need not fear for their lives, as they would in other nations where liberty is actually in jeopardy.
#4 - Again, two completely different things. Fox News gets to say what they want about the administration, and the Administration gets to say what it wants about Fox News. That's how a free society works!
#5 - Wrong again. The White House wants to know what is being said about the health care reform plan, so it can create the most effective strategy for getting it passed. They don't care who is saying it.

And as for the Cuban guy's story - he admits that Cuba was in urgent need of change, and then insinuates that any young charismatic leader promising change will go on to wreck the country if elected. So what exactly was this guy's plan for bringing change, then, if he thinks we can't trust anyone who wants change to carry that change out?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Seb146
Posted 2009-08-07 00:08:03 and read 3030 times.



Quoting Michlis (Reply 97):
Says who?

About the fact that Gore carried Florida? Well, after the votes were actually counted and after the SCOTUS installed Bush as the president because of a state issue, that little piece of infomation came to light. It's good that daddy has friends in high places. Places that will get the prized son out of Vietnam in order to defend the ruthless skies over Alabama (and go AWOL) and get into Yale. Never mind all that.

I also find it interesting that the party of "let states do what they want" and "no activist judges" is so willing to accept the SCOTUS to install a president.

Quoting Michlis (Reply 97):
Most politicans tend to be less than fully truthful, but in Bill Clinton's case it was lying under oath. As an attorney, never mind being the President, he should have known better.

My point is that both sides do it. If you're willing to admit that we can have a discussion, if not, I don't know what else to say.

So, it is acceptable for one president to lie but not another? Why?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2009-08-07 00:10:13 and read 3033 times.

Well obviously 58% of the GOP who responded to this poll are ignorant or bitter or racists or just plain stupid (JPS.). There is really nothing more to say.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Baroque
Posted 2009-08-07 00:12:39 and read 3030 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 106):
That's why I said there needs to be a standards test to prove you are aware of what the candidates stand for, because it's obvious many of your brethren who voted for Obama were embarrassingly uneducated on Obama himself, but yet knew all of the Media spun gossip on Sarah Palin...go figure. Is it any coincidence that there are disproportionately more people who don't work, don't pay taxes, and are highly uneducated that vote Democrat than Conservatively? Similarly, there are a substantial number of uneducated Republican voters, but how many of those voters are living on government subsistence? I would guess not many.

Mmmmm. A number of assertions and a "guess". As they say, evidence?????? I would be fascinated to know where the dissection of the work habits, tax paying proclivities and extent of education data come from. If all this information is held by THE GOVERNMENT, there might be some reason for the otherwise irrational fear that some seem to have of the organization that is supposed to make them a civilised nation as opposed to a failed state. But it seems fair to assume that this is all supposition - prove me wrong.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Babybus
Posted 2009-08-07 00:28:54 and read 3028 times.



Quoting Tugger (Reply 1):
Remember, we have people here who believe, I mean REALLY believe that we didn't go to the moon!

I hope you counted me in on that too.

Isn't that the attraction of Obama? No one knows anything about him. He is everything to everybody; he's black, he's white, he's jewish, he's muslim, he's baptist, he's so american but has British connections, he's african, he bats for industry and the common man.

I'm confused exactly what he is.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Santosdumont
Posted 2009-08-07 05:56:56 and read 2988 times.



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 115):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 113):
Have the feds seized your firearm? Has your gas-guzzling car been reposessed by faceless brownshirts in black helicopters? Have any GOP lawmakers been forced to flee to Canada or Mexico out of fear for their lives? Has the government sanctioned mobs to trash FOX News headquarters? Have government agents approached you to talk about that letter to the editor you wrote? Didn't think so.

#1- I don't believe I have to tell you that taking my guns is certainly part of their agenda. #2- The government is repossessing lots of gas-guzzlers by using MY tax dollars for this cash-for-clunkers crap. #3- I may not fear for my life, but I certainly do fear for my country. #4- they haven't trashed their headquarters, but they just tell us that what we hear and read really isn't "true". #5- the White House wants you to report anyone who sends you an email bashing Obama-care.

So the answer to questions 1-5 is "no."

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Jcs17
Posted 2009-08-07 06:37:41 and read 2982 times.



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 118):
Well obviously 58% of the GOP who responded to this poll are ignorant or bitter or racists or just plain stupid (JPS.). There is really nothing more to say.

Nice. That's a very thoughtful and considerate post.

I think there are numerous questions that haven't been answered, not just about where Obama was born, but his time in Indonesia, and his travel to Pakistan in the early 80s. I'm not a tin-foil hat sort of guy, and I'd be quite alright if my questions were answered definitively and it was found that the guy was exactly what he said he was (born in Honolulu).

I mean there are people who are absolute idiotic nuts over this, I just have questions. It was obvious that the Kenyan birth certificate was fake. There are just a lot of open-ended questions that have never been answered definitively.

Put me in the mildly not sure category.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2009-08-07 06:41:54 and read 2974 times.



Quoting Jcs17 (Reply 122):
I think there are numerous questions that haven't been answered, not just about where Obama was born, but his time in Indonesia, and his travel to Pakistan in the early 80s. I'm not a tin-foil hat sort of guy, and I'd be quite alright if my questions were answered definitively and it was found that the guy was exactly what he said he was (born in Honolulu).

The federal government, Supreme Court and Electoral College have all confirmed him to be the President. What higher measure of definitiveness do you honestly require?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Thebatman
Posted 2009-08-07 08:49:17 and read 2934 times.



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 116):
*sigh*

Yeah, keep looking the other way. Keep sticking up for a guy that wants government to control every aspect of our lives.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 116):
#5 - Wrong again. The White House wants to know what is being said about the health care reform plan, so it can create the most effective strategy for getting it passed. They don't care who is saying it.

Wow. I can't believe you would try and defend that in any way. The government has no business looking into who I talk to or who I receive emails from. If I think Obama-care is a giant leap into socialism, that's my business. Why do you think they want to know WHAT is being said? So they can tell us it's not true.

Let me ask you this: did you ever TRULY think GM would ever stand for Government Motors? If I would have asked that question 10 years ago, everyone would say "no way, the government will never own GM"

This administration wants to control everything about our lives. If you can't see it because you're walking around with blinders on, I'd be careful crossing a busy street.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Santosdumont
Posted 2009-08-07 09:02:45 and read 2930 times.



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 124):
This administration wants to control everything about our lives.

Have they told you what cable company you can choose? Have they dictated what cell phone and Internet provide you must use? Have they said you must trade in your Tag Heuer for a Tissot or face imprisonment?

Let's get some perspective on "controlling everything about our lives." In North Korea, radios are wired to receive only official government stations. Citizens who want to buy a radio or TV have to get permission from their boss.

The right-wing's delirious yelping notwithstanding, such a scenario is not even remotely on the horizon for the United States.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Thebatman
Posted 2009-08-07 09:20:09 and read 2931 times.



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 125):
such a scenario is not even remotely on the horizon for the United States.

Like the government owning GM and Chrysler, the financial companies....yeah, this kind of stuff will NEVER happen. I never said this would happen tomorrow, but we as Americans need to STOP and really take a look at what's happening here.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2009-08-07 09:33:50 and read 2928 times.



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 126):
Like the government owning GM and Chrysler, the financial companies....yeah, this kind of stuff will NEVER happen.

Forgetting political alliances, would you rather have no GM and Chrysler? Would you rather have the American financial dominance decimated? What is worse: government ownership or non-existence? Those are the ONLY two choices in these matters.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: JBirdAV8r
Posted 2009-08-07 10:12:25 and read 2913 times.



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 127):
What is worse: government ownership or non-existence? Those are the ONLY two choices in these matters.

You know, for someone who claims to be an expert in finance and trading, you don't seem to have a good grasp on this.

Those aren't the only two choices!

So assuming they filed for...

Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection
possibly followed by:
Chapter 7 liquidation

Do you honestly believe that GM and Chrysler would just collapse and leave a gaping hole? No. Their remains would be fought over, and a new company (or stronger competitors) would emerge. With 99.99% certainty.

Now we just have a bloated, inefficient government in charge of two bloated, inefficient car companies.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Seb146
Posted 2009-08-07 10:22:52 and read 2907 times.



Quoting Jcs17 (Reply 122):
There are just a lot of open-ended questions that have never been answered definitively.



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 124):
Keep sticking up for a guy that wants government to control every aspect of our lives.

I find it very interesting these same supporters of the GOP (in general, NOT these two posters) are so willing to defend to the death one president who lied and lied and lied and spent trillions of dollars and Christian American lives on all those lies, yet will even question even one letter another president. Why is it so hard for hard-core GOP supporters (again, in general, NOT these two posters) that it might be in the realm of possiblility that the current president is being honest on even one issue? Just on it's face, let's lay it out: ACORN supporte him, not him begging ACORN for their support. He attended a Christian church for 20+ years. I know, the doctrine of ACORN and the sermons of the pastor are not what you (in general) agree with. I do not agree with the entire doctrine of the Catholic church and can not believe someone would sit and agree, for decades, the hatred and hypocracy of the Catholic church. No one ever calls that into question.

Quoting Thebatman (Reply 126):
Like the government owning GM and Chrysler, the financial companies

And banking regulation, and airline regulation, and food regulation.... I mean, why do we have government inverviening in every single aspect of our lives? How dare they!

Do you know EXACTLY what the government is doing in controlling GM, Chrysler and the banks? Making them find ways, on their own, to be solvent, so the United States can stay competative in the world market. So we don't get our a*ses handed to us by China. Is the government actually telling factories what to churn out? Is the government actually telling financial institutions they HAVE to give out home loans hand over fist? No, they LOANED money. It is being paid back (at least, from the banking industry) with interest. Why is that so hard to accept?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2009-08-07 11:21:22 and read 2897 times.



Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 128):
Do you honestly believe that GM and Chrysler would just collapse and leave a gaping hole? No. Their remains would be fought over, and a new company (or stronger competitors) would emerge. With 99.99% certainty.

My specialty for sure is not old, bankrupt companies, I cannot be bothered. Sure I think they'd be t-o-a-s-t, who'd finance them? Who in this economy would? No one wanted to touch them with a ten foot pole. They would have liquidated, and 2 million US jobs would be in jeopardy. I don't support this type of government intervention either, but you must realize what is needed to be done is needed.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Thebatman
Posted 2009-08-07 12:12:34 and read 2885 times.



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 129):
willing to defend to the death one president

I'm a conservative first, republican second. Bush was not financially conservative. I never said I would defend him to the death.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 129):
Why is it so hard for hard-core GOP supporters (again, in general, NOT these two posters) that it might be in the realm of possiblility that the current president is being honest on even one issue?

Because he's not honest. Simple as that. He said he wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class. (open up your wallets- here comes Obama-care) He said the unemployment rate would not go above 8% (it's at about 9.5%). The stimulus packages would create jobs (where are the jobs? The majority of the stimulus money has gone to bail out state deficits).

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 129):
ACORN supporte him, not him begging ACORN for their support.

Oh, as long as he wasn't begging for their support. Wow. What flavor Kool-aid are you drinking?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 129):
Do you know EXACTLY what the government is doing in controlling GM, Chrysler and the banks?

Yes, sticking their big government nose where it doesn't belong. Let the company file bankruptcy, cut their costs and reorganize. What makes one company any more important than another? It's size? NO. United, Delta, US Air, NW, all went bankrupt. The government didn't buy any of them! Are they less important than GM?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 129):
Is the government actually telling financial institutions they HAVE to give out home loans hand over fist?

Yeah, it was called the community reinvestment act.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Santosdumont
Posted 2009-08-07 12:40:09 and read 2875 times.



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 126):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 125):
such a scenario is not even remotely on the horizon for the United States.

Like the government owning GM and Chrysler, the financial companies....yeah, this kind of stuff will NEVER happen.

Re-adjust your lens. We're talking about two totally different things. Partial government ownership of a company -- while not exactly jibing with free-market purists -- has been done before.

That has no earthly resemblance to a genuinely despotic government -- like North Korea for example -- controlling its citizens in absolutely everything they read, say, and do.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2009-08-07 13:11:31 and read 2870 times.



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 132):
Re-adjust your lens. We're talking about two totally different things. Partial government ownership of a company -- while not exactly jibing with free-market purists -- has been done before.

Tell that to Ford, who last month had to start competing against ridiculous cash rebates offered by Chrysler (financed with OUR money). Last month, with the Cash for Clunkers tprogram on top, you could get a brand-spanking new Chrysler for as little as $8,000, thanks to government financing.

Ford was seeing that and saying, "Wait a second - we played by the rules, we ran a tight ship, and now the government is screwing us by using taxpayer money to compete against us!"

Do you think that is proper?

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Mt99
Posted 2009-08-07 13:17:01 and read 2866 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 133):
Last month, with the Cash for Clunkers tprogram on top, you could get a brand-spanking new Chrysler for as little as $8,000, t

How come Ford has the #1 car bought with the program?

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/04/auto...s/index.htm?postversion=2009080515

[Edited 2009-08-07 13:18:01]

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Thebatman
Posted 2009-08-07 18:35:27 and read 2806 times.



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 134):
How come Ford has the #1 car bought with the program?

Not according to what I read. 6 out of 10 cars are imports.

Top 10 New Vehicles Purchased

1. Toyota Corolla

2. Ford Focus

3. Honda Civic

4. Toyota Prius

5. Toyota Camry

6. Hyundai Elantra

7. Ford Escape

8. Dodge Caliber

9. Honda Fit

10. Chevrolet Cobalt

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: JCS17
Posted 2009-08-07 18:42:51 and read 2805 times.



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 129):
I find it very interesting these same supporters of the GOP (in general, NOT these two posters) are so willing to defend to the death one president who lied and lied and lied and spent trillions of dollars and Christian American lives on all those lies, yet will even question even one letter another president. Why is it so hard for hard-core GOP supporters (again, in general, NOT these two posters) that it might be in the realm of possiblility that the current president is being honest on even one issue? Just on it's face, let's lay it out: ACORN supporte him, not him begging ACORN for their support. He attended a Christian church for 20+ years. I know, the doctrine of ACORN and the sermons of the pastor are not what you (in general) agree with. I do not agree with the entire doctrine of the Catholic church and can not believe someone would sit and agree, for decades, the hatred and hypocracy of the Catholic church. No one ever calls that into question.

I actually got about six paragraphs into a response before I realized this is a completely incoherent post. ACORN, the Roman Catholic Church, the War on Terror... Jeez, get some help, buddy. I'm sorry, man, but that's a bit disturbing.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 123):
The federal government, Supreme Court and Electoral College have all confirmed him to be the President. What higher measure of definitiveness do you honestly require?

Those institutions serve as a rubber stamp, and have done so for 200+ years. I really don't want to come off as a conspiracy nut, but did those bodies truly investigate Barack's relationship to Lolo Soetaro in Indonesia? What would be the consequences of him being "adopted" in Indo.

I hope Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and never acquired Indonesian citizenship (or any other theory). If not, you've got a constitutional crisis that this country has never, ever encountered. You're talking about hell-on-earth (in terms of the US) in Washington. Trust me, it wouldn't be a pleasant sight.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2009-08-07 20:33:49 and read 2788 times.



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 134):
How come Ford has the #1 car bought with the program?



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 135):
Not according to what I read. 6 out of 10 cars are imports.

I think you are seeing the effects of the GM and Chrysler bail outs. People (including me) are refusing to buy a Chrysler or GM product because of the way this administration hijacked their bankruptcies, shafted the investors, and turned them into a boondogle for their political cronies. It was damned dishonest, and they refuse to buy a car which will remind them every morning when they get in it of the currupt president we have.

I've been looking forward for years to buy the new Camaro SS, all black, stick shift. But now I'm waiting for the next Mustang.

And yes, it is my midlife crisis car Big grin

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2009-08-07 20:51:02 and read 2779 times.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 137):
And yes, it is my midlife crisis car

Pssssh who needs that when you can buy into one of these?





I hope when my midlife crisis rolls round I'll be putting 100K into a share of a Mooney rather than some slow sports car Big grin

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: AustinAirport
Posted 2009-08-07 22:09:31 and read 2771 times.



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 118):
Well obviously 58% of the GOP who responded to this poll are ignorant or bitter or racists or just plain stupid (JPS.). There is really nothing more to say.

Well Said!
They look for the tiniest little things to criticize because they are prejudice. Cannot STAND PREJUDICES.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Ha763
Posted 2009-08-07 23:51:32 and read 2756 times.



Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 14):
At the time, those were automatically generated in Hawaii when a birth was reported. It didn't matter if the person was born in Hawaii or not, just that someone reported a live birth to the government. But that's beside the point.

Actually, that is incorrect. The automatic birth announcements in the Hawaii newspapers at the time were gathered directly from the records the hospitals report to the State of Hawaii Health Dept, so out of state births would not show up.

Quote:
Such vital statistics, however, were not sent to the newspapers by the general public but by the Health Department, which received the information directly from hospitals, Okubo said.

Birth announcements from the public ran elsewhere in both papers and usually included information such as the newborn's name, weight and time of birth.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...nal+birth+certificate+still+exists

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: T prop
Posted 2009-08-08 00:30:17 and read 2748 times.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 133):
Tell that to Ford, who last month had to start competing against ridiculous cash rebates offered by Chrysler (financed with OUR money). Last month, with the Cash for Clunkers tprogram on top, you could get a brand-spanking new Chrysler for as little as $8,000, thanks to government financing.

Ford was seeing that and saying, "Wait a second - we played by the rules, we ran a tight ship, and now the government is screwing us by using taxpayer money to compete against us!"

Do you think that is proper?

Of the top ten C4C cars 4 are Fords including #1 & 2.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/auto...s/index.htm?postversion=2009080709

As for Chrysler rebates, they've done this for years before this C4C program. I really don't think Ford is crying about it.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Baroque
Posted 2009-08-08 00:52:38 and read 2745 times.



Quoting T prop (Reply 141):
As for Chrysler rebates, they've done this for years before this C4C program. I really don't think Ford is crying about it.

Do the cars come with birth certificates and what is Obama doing to stop the rebirthing of cars? Perhaps he needs a coalition with the birthers? Oh, is that a different topic?  Confused  confused 

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: JCS17
Posted 2009-08-08 01:21:38 and read 2744 times.



Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 139):

Well Said!
They look for the tiniest little things to criticize because they are prejudice. Cannot STAND PREJUDICES.

Tiniest things? Like the Constitution?

Again, I'm not trying to be a birfer, but God, I just hate Obama because he's a black man in the White House. What an affront to society.  Wink .

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Seb146
Posted 2009-08-08 13:03:34 and read 2698 times.



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 131):
Oh, as long as he wasn't begging for their support.

Actually, ACORN was signing up voters. Not Democratic voters, but voters. Those signing up voters forged documents. ACORN helped with housing and food in different neighborhoods. They put themselves in Obama's camp, not the other way around, as right wingers like to tell the story. When, exactly, did they intimidate people into voting for Obama?

Quoting Thebatman (Reply 131):
I never said I would defend him to the death.

No, not you. There are those that absolutly and without question defend anyone and everyone on the right but, at the same time, are against anyone and anything center or left. We have all seen it time and again on this board and all over the media.

Quoting Thebatman (Reply 131):
Because he's not honest.

Let's run this down:

Quoting Thebatman (Reply 131):
He said he wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class.

Then, you make a comment about something that *may* or *may not* happen in the future. That is the only support you have for that statement. Where is the lie?

Quoting Thebatman (Reply 131):
He said the unemployment rate would not go above 8% (it's at about 9.5%)

So, he is the sole person responsible for how many jobs are available and how many people are working? Microsoft, Delta, Ford, Pepsi have absolutly nothing whatsoever to do with any of those figures. Only Obama and no one or nothing else at all?

Quoting Thebatman (Reply 131):
The stimulus packages would create jobs (where are the jobs? The majority of the stimulus money has gone to bail out state deficits).

The stimulus money just started trickling to the states. It is up to the states to spend that money. If those states decide to spend it on deficits (I thought conservatives were all about fiscal responsability?) that is up to them. What about those in Congress that helped pass the stimulus? Very few people blame them. Sure, Obama signed it, but what about those in Congress? Let's hold their feet to the fire.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 136):
I'm sorry, man, but that's a bit disturbing.

It makes perfect sense to me. LOL I just find it interesting that some people support one leader without question but is absolutly and completely against another leader based partly on party affiliation. I, actually, was on the fence before McCain picked Palin as VP. Even with Romney running, I was taking a long look at the candidates on the right. But, in the past few years, there are those on the right who, no matter what, will never ever support anyone on the left because they believe whatever is told to them about anyone left of the GOP.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2009-08-14 08:59:36 and read 2544 times.



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 144):
When, exactly, did they intimidate people into voting for Obama?

They didn't have to, the Black Panthers accomplished that all by themselves.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 144):
Quoting Thebatman (Reply 131):
He said he wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class.

Then, you make a comment about something that *may* or *may not* happen in the future. That is the only support you have for that statement. Where is the lie?

How else will Obama pay for all of his spending? It's quite simple math. He HAS to tax deep into the middle class to pay for it.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 144):
So, he is the sole person responsible for how many jobs are available and how many people are working? Microsoft, Delta, Ford, Pepsi have absolutly nothing whatsoever to do with any of those figures. Only Obama and no one or nothing else at all?

Solely responsible, no. But his policies have done NOTHING to curb unemployment rising, and just rose unexpectedly again to 500,000+ jobs lost last month. His policies are destructive, and small business owners and large businesses alike realize this, which combined with the overall lack of confidence in the consumer (also because of a lack of confidence in what Obama is doing) is why unemployment continues to rise.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 144):
Sure, Obama signed it, but what about those in Congress? Let's hold their feet to the fire.

 checkmark  But like you said, no one forced Obama to sign those bills. You remember all of the rhetoric of how he was going to eliminate ear marks yada yada yada...and then signs back to back bills riddled with thousands of ear marks. 'Do As I Say, Not As I Do' ought to the slogan for Obama and the rest of the weasels in Washington D.C.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: Seb146
Posted 2009-08-14 09:49:58 and read 2518 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 145):
combined with the overall lack of confidence in the consumer (also because of a lack of confidence in what Obama is doing) is why unemployment continues to rise.

How about unemployment continues to rise because people are buying fewer things because they have less money to spend because they are being laid off or fired for lack of consumer confidence because no one has any money to spend on extra stuff. I had zero confidence in Bush's policies, yet I had money to spend on stuff and I was able to find work. How does that work again?

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 145):
They didn't have to, the Black Panthers accomplished that all by themselves.

Really? Okay. Sure. I lived in Oregon and I never EVER heard of ANYONE being intimidated. Period. No intimidation in Oregon, Washington or Idaho. We voted for whomever of our own free will. I never ever felt like I had to fill in that circle completely with a black or blue pen next to Obama's name because someone would come in the night to burn my house down or smother me with a pillow. I voted for Obama because I wanted to. Six years of failed corporate policies of the Republican party and war and fear mongering got us nowhere. Intimidation may have worked for a few in places like PHL, CLE, WAS, and Chicago, but explain the rest of us who voted of our own free will.

Topic: RE: 58 Percent Of GOP Not Sure/Doubt Obama Born In US
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2009-08-14 13:01:59 and read 2496 times.



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 146):
How about unemployment continues to rise because people are buying fewer things because they have less money to spend because they are being laid off or fired for lack of consumer confidence because no one has any money to spend on extra stuff. I had zero confidence in Bush's policies, yet I had money to spend on stuff and I was able to find work. How does that work again?

Simple...are you ready to catch this? People are continuing to be laid off because employers can't afford to keep them, because sales, supply and demand across the board are way down...and while Obama didn't get us into the mess initially, this is certainly his ship now, and has been for months. Confidence is continuously low, unemployment continues to rise, and Obama is not making anyone feel any better with his massive government policies, massive deficit spending that makes Bush's spending look anemic, and continued rhetoric about how an increase in government intrusion is somehow a good thing. The numbers tell the story Seb146. People aren't buying into the Obama koolaid that he promised, and they aren't comfortable with his policies...hence the amazingly fast plummet of his approval numbers, particularly with that oh-so-important group of Independents.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 146):
Really? Okay. Sure. I lived in Oregon and I never EVER heard of ANYONE being intimidated. Period. No intimidation in Oregon, Washington or Idaho. We voted for whomever of our own free will. I never ever felt like I had to fill in that circle completely with a black or blue pen next to Obama's name because someone would come in the night to burn my house down or smother me with a pillow. I voted for Obama because I wanted to. Six years of failed corporate policies of the Republican party and war and fear mongering got us nowhere. Intimidation may have worked for a few in places like PHL, CLE, WAS, and Chicago, but explain the rest of us who voted of our own free will.

Really? Cause I said Obama only won because of intimidation from the Black Panthers? Re-read my above post. The Black Panthers were totally trying to intimidate voters in some areas to vote for Obama, a man that is half white!! That tells you how ignorant and stupid those characters are!


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