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Topic: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2009-08-20 11:28:32 and read 5703 times.



Quote:
Swiss President Hans-Rudolf Merz apologized to the Libyan government on Thursday for the brief detention last year of a son of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, clearing the way for a return to normal diplomatic ties.

"We are apologizing for what happened to Hannibal Gaddafi and the two sides agreed to form a committee to discuss the matter," Merz told reporters in Tripoli.

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE57J4DR20090820

What do you think? This issue is stirring up quite a debate here in Switzerland. The Swiss think that it was inappropriate to apologize for this detention, only because it happened to Gaddafi's son, and that our government basically bowed to Libya's threats.

I'm sure there will be a lot of talking about this in the next weeks.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Dtwclipper
Posted 2009-08-20 11:32:13 and read 5688 times.

Wow, big day for Gaddafi.

Lybia 2 Western World 0.

 thumbsdown   thumbsdown   thumbsdown 

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2009-08-20 11:36:48 and read 5686 times.

Oh, you have got to be kidding!

Once again Switzerland is turning into everyone's punching bag. The US, Germany and others over bank accounts, and now this.

I suggested to a senior guy at a major swiss bank a few weeks ago that the Swiss should quietly restrict all investment dollars it controls from being invested in Germany, the US, and other countries that give Switzerland a lot of grief. Given that Swizerland controls a couple of trillion dollars in investments, it would get noticed. He smiled, and said he didn't want to cause a trade war. I guess he's right, but people need to lay off Switzerland. the world has bigger things to worry about.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: AviationMaster
Posted 2009-08-20 11:53:53 and read 5670 times.



Quoting ManuCH (Thread starter):

What do you think?

A freakin' disgrace!  Angry

Gadaffi 1-0 Switzerland

Quoting ManuCH (Thread starter):
that our government basically bowed to Libya's threats.

In the past 18 months, our government has been bowing into almost every single threat. Currently there is not one single Swiss politician who has the cojones to flip the finger at all of the country's critics.

In the end, don't blame the politicians, it is the Swiss people who have voted these incompetent people into power over the last couple of years.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: PSA53
Posted 2009-08-20 12:55:32 and read 5643 times.

NUTS!!!!!

Sign,
General McAuliffe,
It was the generals one word reply back of the Nazi's request to surrender.

My exact feelings about giving into thugs.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: FuturePilot16
Posted 2009-08-20 15:13:06 and read 5605 times.



Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 3):
In the past 18 months, our government has been bowing into almost every single threat. Currently there is not one single Swiss politician who has the cojones to flip the finger at all of the country's critics.

If I was in any leading position in switzerland, I would tell Gaddafi and his country of terrorists to shove it. I would also ban he and his son/sons from entering into that country

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: OA260
Posted 2009-08-20 15:20:29 and read 5601 times.

The Swiss had to make a decision based on their national interests and it seems they have. They are not the first and wont be the last .

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Prebennorholm
Posted 2009-08-20 17:14:39 and read 5575 times.

I believe this is for internal Libyan use only, and who cares what Gaddafi's "press" tells the Libyan people?

The problem is that two Swiss workers/technicians/businessmen (don't remember) are detained in Libya as hostages, and I would assume that this is the way to get them out.

We had our problems with the same Hannibal Gaddafi when he attended the Copenhagen University several years ago, but we got him out of the back door in an easier way. I believe that no developed country will any longer issue a visa for him. Game over.

The Swiss incident has also had a few advantages:

1. Gas retailer Tamoil (Libyan state owned) has pulled out of Switzerland. The remaining oil companies (BP, Shell etc.) have filled the gap. This can only mean a more stable oil supply.

2. Libyan state has devested heavily in mainly Swiss banks like UBS and CS. That can only mean a more stable ownership of those banks. And it certainly makes it more attractive for people like me and many others including major world market investors to invest in those banks. And in fact last May my bank advisor put a few thousand $$ of my retirement money on UBS (which won't make or break anything).

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: LTU932
Posted 2009-08-20 18:54:21 and read 5547 times.

I don't know why Lybia got Switzerland to apologise. Lybia deserves no apologies.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2009-08-21 01:22:47 and read 5519 times.

From what I remember, the two (Morroccan / Tunisian) servants, who got beaten by Ghaddafi´s son, retracted their accusations soon after the son´s arrest. From what I´ve heard they and their families received threats from the Lybian government.

Jan

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ME AVN FAN
Posted 2009-08-21 01:59:10 and read 5511 times.



Quoting ManuCH (Thread starter):
We are apologizing

-
Mr Merz, our seasoned weapons-trader in federal office, quite nicely apologized for the Cantonal Police of Geneva and some "Swiss authorities" (the Geneva state prosecution), so reducing the matter to a problem about some over-active policemen and attorneys. It looks as if he by his ways has regulated the Swiss Libyan relationship. Sure he now is attacked about this "surrender" to an ugly and rapidly aging dictator (too much Bourbon Whiskey I guess !), but something needed to be done. That former government president of the Republic of Geneva simply was not the person in need for this !  Big grin

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 1):
Wow, big day for Gaddafi.

Lybia 2 Western World 0.

A) the name of the country is LIBYA
B) it was a big but difficult day for Mr Merz

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Once again Switzerland is turning into everyone's punching bag

You must be making bad jokes ! Everybody in recent years was kissing the better parts of "el-Raïs Nabulyuni", and now when the Swiss Federal President follows the lead it is "punching bag" ?  Smile  Big grin

Quoting ManuCH (Thread starter):
our government basically bowed to Libya's threats.

Mr Merz bowed to realities, and knows that you have to accept who is sitting in the better place in the end. The readiness of Prime Minister and Foreign Minister too meet him within a day (rare in that area) shows that Libya in reality is quite interested to overcome the "problem", but the technocrats in Tripoli needed a Swiss rep. who was ready to please their "lider maximo" and his clan

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 3):
it is the Swiss people who have voted these incompetent people into power over the last couple of years.

-
no, it is not the Swiss people who voted incompetent people into power, it is Swiss shareholders who voted incompetent managers into high corporate offices and it was (and possibly is) voters in Cantons who vote in favour of incompetent local politicians and it is Swiss voters who refuse higher wages for policemen and that way DISencourage qualified people to get into police service (you simply do not arrest sons of foreign dictators and you do not imprison them, no country in the world does do so, none) . You may remember the so-called "suicide" of that German politician in Geneva ? Looks nice, doesn't it ?

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 4):
request to surrender.

My exact feelings about giving into thugs.

Well, you overestimate the Swiss armed forces. They might technically be able to conquer the Lombardy region, but Libya ?  Sad

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
The Swiss had to make a decision based on their national interests and it seems they have. They are not the first and wont be the last .

Absolutely. Other countries have done so as well. Anybody remember the tent in Paris ?

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 7):
Tamoil (Libyan state owned) has pulled out of Switzerland

has it ? here the entries of today online :

Wer, Was: z.B. müller, coiffeur, 061 295 35 35

Wo: z.B. neuchâtel, 5700, bergstrasse

Im aktuellen Kartenausschnitt suchen

Erweiterte Suche

Name, Vorname: z.B. meier, hans*
Beruf: z.B. pizzaiolo, doktor
Strasse:
Ort, PLZ:
Region, Kanton:
Telefon:
Einfache Suche

Internationale Suche

* Firmen
* Privatpersonen

Anfangsbuchstabe

* A (3)
* B (3)
* C (2)
* D (3)
* E (0)
* F (0)
* G (2)
* H (1)
* I (0)
* J (2)
* K (4)
* L (0)
* M (2)

* N (0)
* O (0)
* P (3)
* Q (0)
* R (8)
* S (8)
* T (89)
* U (0)
* V (3)
* W (0)
* X (0)
* Y (0)
* Z (0)

Anfangsbuchstabe
Rubrik einschränken

* Tankstelle (65)
* Garage (6)
* Kiosk (5)
* Gas (3)
* Brennstoffe (3)
* Carrosserie (2)
* Restaurant (2)
* Essenzen (1)
* Mineralölprodukte (1)

* Autovertretung (1)
* Abschleppdienst (1)
* Tankstellenshop (1)
* Autowaschanlage (1)
* Station (1)
* Heizöl (1)
* Lebensmittelgeschäft (1)
* Unfalldienst (1)
* Pannenhilfe (1)

Rubrik einschränken
Ort einschränken

* Perly (4)
* Roche VD (4)
* Sion (3)
* Lamone (3)
* Stabio (3)
* Langnau am Albis (3)
* Frick (3)
* Aigle (2)
* Stein AG (2)
* Collombey (2)
* Ostermundigen (2)
* Winterthur (2)
* Cadenazzo (2)
* Genève 15 Aéroport (2)
* Oensingen (2)
* Rolle (2)
* Conthey (2)
* Magadino (2)

* Couvet (2)
* Muids, Le (2)
* Mezzovico (2)
* Ittigen (2)
* Gwatt (Thun) (2)
* Lausanne (2)
* Thayngen (2)
* Weisslingen (2)
* Morges (2)
* Schlieren (2)
* Genève (1)
* Gandria (1)
* Chavannes-de-Bogis (1)
* Fribourg (1)
* Belp (1)
* Fraubrunnen (1)
* Eglisau (1)
* Zürich (1)

Ort einschränken

133 Treffer für Tamoil
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Neue Suche
KartenansichtTextansicht
Dieser Eintrag kann auf der Karte angezeigt werden
JCH Sàrl Tamoil Bevaix

Tel. 032 846 14 40Free call Gratis anrufen

rue de Neuchâtel 30, 2022 Bevaix

Mehr Details anzeigen
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Relais Tamoil

Tel. 022 771 27 43Free call Gratis anrufen

route de Saint-Julien 286, 1258 Perly

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Tankstelle
Station Tamoil

Tel. 021 647 66 46Free call Gratis anrufen

route des Plaines-du-Loup 26, 1018 Lausanne

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Gas
Station Tamoil

Tel. 021 803 33 68Free call Gratis anrufen

rue de Lausanne 19, 1110 Morges

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Garage
Station Tamoil de la place

Tel. 022 349 52 29Free call Gratis anrufen

rue de Genève 10, 1225 Chêne-Bourg

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Gas
Station Tamoil Fontaine SA

Tel. * 021 647 02 74Free call Gratis anrufen

route de Neuchâtel 60, 1008 Prilly

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Lebensmittelgeschäft
Station-service Tamoil

Tel. 032 863 17 07Free call Gratis anrufen

rue du Quarre 31, 2108 Couvet

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Tankstelle
Tamoil

Tel. 024 466 31 31Free call Gratis anrufen

avenue du Chamossaire 9, 1860 Aigle

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Tankstelle
Tamoil

Tel. * 091 780 54 08Free call Gratis anrufen

via Locarno 97, 6612 Ascona

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Tankstelle
Tamoil

Tel. 091 946 12 51Free call Gratis anrufen

via S. Gottardo, 6804 Bironico

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Treffer 1 - 10 von 133
12345678910weiter

still 133 ONEHUNDREDANDTHIRTYTHREE ! No, it has NOT pulled out of
Switzerland at all , and never did

and you might look up THIS

www.rcvs.ch/cgi-bin/fnrGet.cgi?fnr=6...&lang=1&hrg_opt=11000&shab=0000000

which is the online entry of the Commercial Register, only showing the central company in Switzerland

--- in short, you have become victim of the Khaddafi propaganda !

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):
Lybia deserves no apologies.

First of all, it is LIBYA, and second, diplomacy needed these apologies. Switzerland simply cannot afford to have an ongoing conflict with Libya, just due to some profile-hungry Genevan law-enforces. THIS was and is the argument of Mr Merz.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
the two (Morroccan / Tunisian) servants, who got beaten by Ghaddafi´s son, retracted their accusations soon after the son´s arrest. From what I´ve heard they and their families received threats from the Lybian government.

Beside the point that it is Libyan government and not "Lybian", they got a threat and as rumours go a quite nice sum of money (arranged by the dictator's daughter who is a lawyer and knows how to handle things of her a bit strange family !

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2009-08-21 02:56:52 and read 5502 times.



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 10):

Everything you said makes perfect sense. It's only a bit hard to accept from an "instinctive" point of view (as in "heck, we don't have to bow in front of those guys"). I guess that's just how politics work...

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Dtwclipper
Posted 2009-08-21 03:29:02 and read 5486 times.



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 10):
Lybia 2 Western World 0.

A) the name of the country is LIBYA

I think that is called a typographical error, but thanks for the heads up.  no 

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Offloaded
Posted 2009-08-21 04:53:45 and read 5469 times.

Actually, it's the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya if you want to go all out on the name!!!

It really is amazing to see the West in general falling over itself to do business with Libya, seemingly, in light of recent events, at any cost. How times change.

The Colonel apparently plays his hand well. There was no way he was ever going to end up hiding down a hole with US forces chasing him.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: AviationMaster
Posted 2009-08-21 07:12:09 and read 5444 times.



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 10):
Switzerland simply cannot afford to have an ongoing conflict with Libya, just due to some profile-hungry Genevan law-enforces. THIS was and is the argument of Mr Merz.

Did Merz a reason, as to why Switzerland cannot afford to have an ongoing conflict with Libya? Economic reasons perhaps?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 10):
it was (and possibly is) voters in Cantons who vote in favour of incompetent local politicians

This is exactly what I meant with my post.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 10):
Swiss voters who refuse higher wages for policemen and that way DISencourage qualified people to get into police service (you simply do not arrest sons of foreign dictators and you do not imprison them, no country in the world does do so, none) .

I agree - the police was certainly lacking some "Fingerspitzengefühl" in that given situation.

In the end, I just fail to see how giving Gadaffi what he wants will solve future problems. It might have resolved this case (the two "hostages" are still in Libya), but IMO it just deteriorated our government's stance and credibility in future deilcate disscussions.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ME AVN FAN
Posted 2009-08-21 11:00:23 and read 5415 times.



Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 14):
Did Merz a reason, as to why Switzerland cannot afford to have an ongoing conflict with Libya? Economic reasons perhaps?

A) Economic reasons
B) Diplomacy. Switzerland which is representing countries hostile to each other in both countries in question and which is often THE chief negotiator and is having the HQs of many international organisations cannot have its relationship with a European or Mediterranean country in chaos
C) Relations with the Arab World. Most Arab leaders of course know that Mr Khaddafi is mad saw that crisis as an embarassment, and so tried to negotiate. But it was something to be done in the end by the Swiss Federal government, and the former government president of the "Republic + Canton of Geneva" simply could not do so.

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 14):
I just fail to see how giving Gadaffi what he wants will solve future problems

No, it was to solve the present problems. I still remember what President Sadat on a visit to Germany said quite in public and in German language "Dieser Mann ist wahnsinnig, wissen Sie, er spinnt". So that the man can create problems again just as he did elsewhere.

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 14):
It might have resolved this case (the two "hostages" are still in Libya), but IMO it just deteriorated our government's stance and credibility in future deilcate disscussions.

No,
A) the two hostages in reality were rather a side issue, the main issues were diplomacy, economic relations, airtraffic + seatraffic agreement
B) No, to make concessions to Mr Khaddafi did not deteriorate the stance and credibility of other governments and I do not see why it should be different in case of Switzerland. Quite to the contrary, as long as he is to stay in the Federal Council, Mr Merz in future will be the man approached by Arab politicians in case of things to get solved. His tactics of making the matter into one of some profile-hungry attention-whoring Cantonal policemen and prosecutors quite nicely reduced the matter to size. The point that he could on the same day, even on his first day there, talk with BOTH the Prime Minister AND the Foreign Minister is almost sensational by Arab standards.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: EL-AL
Posted 2009-08-22 20:21:35 and read 5339 times.



Quoting ManuCH (Thread starter):
What do you think?

From how it looks from here, I think that the swiss leaders will do anything for money, meaning that because Lybia (or Libya, it's Lob in Hebrew) has money in swiss bank accounts, the swiss leaders are willing to spit on their national honor (if they think that Switzerland has any) and on all the principles of civilized people (like not hitting other humans) just that a crazy dictator with oil won't take out his dear money out of the country. I think it's a disgrace for Switzerland and for the residents of this country, not mentioning those who were beaten by Qaddafi Jr.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
The Swiss had to make a decision based on their national interests and it seems they have

Did I mention money?

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2009-08-23 04:40:11 and read 5319 times.



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 15):
Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 14):
I just fail to see how giving Gadaffi what he wants will solve future problems

No, it was to solve the present problems. I still remember what President Sadat on a visit to Germany said quite in public and in German language "Dieser Mann ist wahnsinnig, wissen Sie, er spinnt". So that the man can create problems again just as he did elsewhere.

When did this happen? Also, I didn´t know that Sadat was speaking German (though AFAIK he was a member of the Egyptian resistance against the British colonialists during the 1930s-1940s and he some contacts with the German Nazi government, possibly hoping that the Afrika Korps would kick the British out and then let Egypt to become independent. A fine chance with this, e.g. in his attitude towards India, of which some more radical independence politicians (e.g. Bose) were also hoping for German help to kick the British out, Hitler made it quite clear to his cronies, that these countries would never become independent, they would just change their colonial master.

Jan

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ME AVN FAN
Posted 2009-08-23 16:28:27 and read 5278 times.



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 17):
When did this happen? Also, I didn´t know that Sadat was speaking German (though AFAIK he was a member of the Egyptian resistance against the British colonialists during the 1930s-1940s and he some contacts with the German Nazi government

I refer to his visit to some places in Baden-Baden in about 1975 or 76. Yes, President Sadat spoke German most nicely. Beside his speaking a bit of French. President Mubarak, beside Arabic speaks both English and Russian, Russian of course excellently as having been the first non-WarsawPact officer allowed into the Generals Academy of the USSR.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2009-09-03 05:29:39 and read 5084 times.

Listen up, the news are getting better day by day!

Now Colonel Gaddafi wants to 'abolish' Switzerland

Quote:
Libyan leader Colonel Gaddafi is set to ask the United Nations to 'abolish' Switzerland and share the land among its neighbouring countries.
The eccentric dictator has filed a motion with the U.N. saying the Alpine state should be wiped off the map and split among France, Italy and Germany.
Gaddafi is set to present his bizarre plan when Libya takes over the year-long presidency of the U.N. general Assembly on September 15.

Is anyone still taking this guy seriously?

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Aviationmaster
Posted 2009-09-03 06:04:55 and read 5077 times.



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 19):
Is anyone still taking this guy seriously?

No one ever has.  Wink

IMO, the time has come to stop all relations with this country.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2009-09-03 07:42:56 and read 5062 times.



Quoting Aviationmaster (Reply 20):
No one ever has.  

IMO, the time has come to stop all relations with this country.

He picked the right moment to come forward with such a statement. Now our government can't reply, as they're waiting for the hostages to be released. If they condemn his statements, he will retaliate and keep them in Libya even longer. I wonder what will happen next...

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ME AVN FAN
Posted 2009-09-03 16:03:49 and read 5027 times.



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 21):
such a statement.

and what ? Nobody in the world will take notice really. He in the past already "divided up" Jordan, Lebanon, Israel, Egypt and Tunisia. So that there is no reason for panic ......

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2009-09-04 00:15:12 and read 5001 times.



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
From what I remember, the two (Morroccan / Tunisian) servants, who got beaten by Ghaddafi´s son, retracted their accusations soon after the son´s arrest. From what I´ve heard they and their families received threats from the Lybian government.

Gaddaffi Duck is not threatening. Their folks in Libya haven't been seen lately..

I really wonder what's happening with Switzerland-. How can Mr. Merz depart TIP without the two Swiss hostages on board. may be he should hjave consulted with Bill Clinton and sk him how things are done properly.

To be honest, if Gaddaffi Duck gets a majority vote in the UN to dissolve Switzerland, us Germans, should think twice which cantons we rellay want. Basel Stadt and Land is OK. and we take the Gold Coast as well....

 Big grin  Cool

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2009-09-04 00:29:07 and read 5000 times.

Please, people should not get so bent out of shape for an empty apology to a dictator's family. This is diplomacy.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Racko
Posted 2009-09-04 01:21:46 and read 4990 times.

I like the idea. We'll take it. As compensation and to assure the balance of power Poland can have half of East Germany.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2009-09-04 01:25:25 and read 5015 times.



Quoting Racko (Reply 25):
Poland can have half of East Germany.

That would greatly improve matters in MacPomm and parts of Brandenburg.
.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Us330
Posted 2009-09-04 04:40:25 and read 4999 times.



Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
The Swiss had to make a decision based on their national interests and it seems they have. They are not the first and wont be the last .

Clearly they have. If they didn't apologize to Gaddafi, there's a distinct chance that Switzerland might not exist after late September.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...d_nations_abolish_switzerland.html

This was clearly an existential crisis for the Swiss state, and I applaud them for taking the brave step to apologize to such a noble and distinguished leader who will undoubtedly go down in history as one of the greatest humanitarians and statesmen of all time!

 vomit   sarcastic 

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2009-09-04 09:03:43 and read 4968 times.

This is getting more and more funny everyday. Now a local politician wants to "declare war to Libya" and "free our hostages by using our armed forces".

Source (sorry, Italian only, Google translation here)

I think it's a pity that we have politicians going as low as Gaddafi's random statements, and I'm afraid it will make the situation even worse for our hostages.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2009-09-04 10:33:58 and read 4955 times.



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 28):
I think it's a pity that we have politicians going as low as Gaddafi's random statements, and I'm afraid it will make the situation even worse for our hostages.

I hardly think that Bignasca's statements are "as low as Gaddafi's". He does have a valid point that Gaddafi has launched an existential threat to Switzerland, no different than the calls of various islamic nations that Israel should be eliminated.

Israel's response has been to keep an exceptionally high state of military readiness, due to the close proximity with its enemies, and there is an effective blockade for people traveling between Israel and countries that have called for its elimination.

Switzerland should respond similarly. The military aspect is mitigated by distance - Libya does not represent a realistic military threat, but I think there should be an otherwise similar response to what is a declaration of war.

My recommendation is a travel ban - no Libyan citizens allowed on Swiss territory, and all Libyan-owned assets in Switzerland should be frozen, and eventually will be confiscated if Libya continues to hold Swiss citizens or assets.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ME AVN FAN
Posted 2009-09-04 18:10:19 and read 4914 times.



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 23):
Germans, should think twice which cantons we rellay want. Basel Stadt and Land is OK. and we take the Gold Coast as well....

no, no, according to the Great Dictator you will get all German speaking parts !

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 28):
it's a pity that we have politicians going as low as Gaddafi's random statements, and I'm afraid it will make the situation even worse for our hostages.

-
whenever it is not exactly helpful, I do not believe that it really makes matters more difficult. Mr Boris Bignasca apparently dreams of a K-MOB (Kriegsmobilmachung= mobilisation of the reservists army) and a sudden attack upon Libya in the frame of a manoeuvre.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2009-09-05 00:24:32 and read 4893 times.



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 30):
no, no, according to the Great Dictator you will get all German speaking parts !

so we have no choice and have to take all of Heidiland including Appenzell and Uri?  Wink


Now, seriously, I don't envy Swiss politicians. They represent a state under the rule of law and have to deal with a clown who is an absolute monarch and doubles as his own jester. That is a game you can't win, especially not when other democratic countries around don't give a damn and release a convicted terrorist on humanitarian grounds at the same time. Wouldn't it have been a smart idea to exchange the Lockerbie bomber for the two Swiss businessmen?

That seems to be the only language this clown seems to understand. Declaring war to Libya is stupid, Switzerland does not have the tools like the US and Russia have who could send an armada to the coasts of Libya. But the people of the town in New Jersey where the great dictator wanted to set up his tent have made it quite clear that they don't want him and I doubt very much that Mayor Bloomberg allows him to set up tent in Central Park, Thinking about it, the lions cage might be an option.

Switzerland has to build up its diplomacy again, they have a position of "diplomatique reduit" and have given in to "requests" of other countries too often. That includes Germany where a loud finance minister has aggressively accused Switzerland to shelter tax refugees and they caved in to a German county manager when it came to curtailing the approach of ZRH. Why could Swiss diplomacy not make it clear that international agreements signed by both countries allow overflying?

Stand up for your positions and don't try to be Mr, Nice Guy all the time.




.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ME AVN FAN
Posted 2009-09-05 02:08:30 and read 4889 times.



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 31):
Declaring war to Libya is stupid

-
Nobody seriously considers such a thing. But as generations here joked about the uselessness of armed forces with at times more tanks than those of Germany or Italy, as many fighter planes as Italy, and an artillery with more firepower than the Italian one, the "idea" WILL get used in the "humour industry". People will muse about former Bundesrat (Federal Counciller) and Oberst aD (ret. Col.) Christoph Blocher be assigned Governer General of "Helvetia Africana" and Colonel Khaddafi will, including tent, be transferred to Zurich-Burghölzli Mental Asylum, with his tent becoming listed as temporary attractions by the Zürich-Tourismus !  Big grin

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 31):
given in to "requests" of other countries too often

-
and here we come to an important point. Finance Minister Merz (Federal President 2009) in his meetings with the Libyan Prime Minister concluded contracts which "normalized" relations to 99% and pave the way to exports to Libya to the tune of 100s of mio. CHF per year. There to me is no doubt that the two gents well realized the limitations of their power, both however quite rightly played with their well-known capabilities.
-
and a difference to NJ. Whenever I say that Libya only was "contributing" for less than 50% it still means that a "group" of Libyans exceedingly close to their "Great Dictator" killed more than 100 people. In case of Switzerland, there are two men who have their lodgings in the Tripoli embassy (I once was guest on a fête in the German embassy in Nouakchott and so do not think that European embassies are such bad places !) but can go out to downtown or beaches, etc. They can do a lot, except getting out of that country. Sure, the Governor of NJ would never had done what Mr Merz could do and had to do.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2009-09-06 22:28:41 and read 4808 times.

Here's what the Sunday newspaper "Il Mattino" posted yesterday. OK, "Il Mattino" is probably the most trashy newspaper you can dream of buying in Switzerland, but still, it expresses what people feel:



"Enough dropping our pants - it's time to react!"

In the picture, Gaddafi is holding the Swiss President Hans Rudolf Merz on a leash.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: Oly720man
Posted 2009-09-07 02:12:03 and read 4781 times.



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 33):
In the picture, Gaddafi is holding the Swiss President Hans Rudolf Merz on a leash.

Just finished reading "Journey into Madness" by Gordon Thomas and in it there was a reference to CIA intelligence from the early 1980s that Gaddafi had transvestite tendencies and, in his quiet moments in his tent, he liked to wear Max Factor make up and wear women's shoes.... so the S&M village person look may not be quite right. But who knows?

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ME AVN FAN
Posted 2009-09-07 11:35:59 and read 4730 times.



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 33):
Enough dropping our pants - it's time to react!"

But what do those people at "Mattino" have in mind ?

> assets ? Switzerland has more assets in Libya then the other way round
> boycott ? Switzerland is not a vital supplier to Libya
> military attack ? how exactly ?

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2009-09-07 11:50:22 and read 4729 times.



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 35):
But what do those people at "Mattino" have in mind ?

Really nothing useful, they're the official "venting outlet" of a very original political party in Ticino (the "Lega", even more far right than the SVP). But I quoted them as in this case they reflect what many people think. It's not that they propose anything, they just moan about how bad our government is - without bringing any alternatives. As usual.

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: LTU932
Posted 2009-09-07 12:26:54 and read 4712 times.



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 30):
no, no, according to the Great Dictator you will get all German speaking parts !

What about Liechtenstein? I know they're not part of Switzerland, but something has to be done with them. Will it become German as well or will they decide to become the extension of the Vorarlberg?  Wink

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 33):
"Il Mattino" is probably the most trashy newspaper you can dream of buying in Switzerland

Even trashier than Blick?  Wow!

Topic: RE: Libya Wins Swiss Apology For Arrest Of Gaddafi Son
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2009-09-07 12:58:45 and read 4701 times.



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 37):
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 33):
"Il Mattino" is probably the most trashy newspaper you can dream of buying in Switzerland

Even trashier than Blick?

Yes, much much worse, rest assured  Smile. They are outright derogatory and flame away in a very kindergarden-like fashion, it's almost unbelievable.


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