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Topic: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: NIKV69
Posted 2010-02-18 22:24:13 and read 8964 times.

About time.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_antarctica_whaling

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: 2707200X
Posted 2010-02-18 22:31:15 and read 8957 times.

Quoting NIKV69 (Thread starter):
About time.

I agree with you here, whaling is archaic and there is no scientific research in whaling other than for consumption.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-18 22:31:49 and read 8958 times.

I would be very surprised if anything comes of this deadline.What are we (Australia) going to do if Japan tells us to mind out own business, send in the Navy, yeah right!

Unfortunately I'm not to optimistic about this whole affair.

They are empty words by our Prime Minister Mr Kevin Rudd, or as I like to say Kevin Dudd !! because japan dose not recognized any court decision, so in a nut shell nothing will happen and the status quo will prevail.

Sad for the Whales.

More empty talk by the PM.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: NIKV69
Posted 2010-02-18 22:33:53 and read 8957 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
Unfortunately I'm not to optimistic about this whole affair.

Won't need them, the Japanese whaling fleet and those activists are on a collision course for a real serious encounter and you watch if Japan ignores AUS that is just what you will have.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2010-02-18 22:35:27 and read 8951 times.

Quoting NIKV69 (Thread starter):
About time.

Nothing will come of it. The Japanese media blathers on every night about how Sea Shepherd and like-minded conservationists are dangerous criminals who will stop at nothing to protect animals that aren't even endangered - there is very little public support for cessation of these activities. Likewise, the government has little respect for international law, as the recent episodes with child abductions by Japanese parents demonstrates. Unless it comes from a Japanese perspective first, nobody's buyin'.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-18 22:37:36 and read 8948 times.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
collision course

That's already happened with a NZ boat that was rammed and sunk by one of the whaling boats, nothing has happened about that incident either, unfortunately.

Both Australia and New Zealand sat back and did nothing, there is nothing they can do really.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: MoltenRock
Posted 2010-02-18 22:52:54 and read 8925 times.

It really is hard to take anyone who eats flesh seriously when they condemn another culture for eating flesh of an animal they don't endorse. Octopus are as smart as house cats and yet people eat calamari all day long in the west. People in France and elsewhere eat horse meat. Still other cultures find kitty cat to be the lobster of the land.

*shrug*

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Springbok747
Posted 2010-02-18 22:57:36 and read 8924 times.

Sorry..but if the Japanese want to whale in international waters..then why should we (Australia) do anything about it? Shouldn't the international community (the UN?) step in? And I don't understand what the big deal is..the Japanese eat whales..so they go whaling..and they aren't hunting anything endangered either.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 5):
That's already happened with a NZ boat that was rammed and sunk by one of the whaling boats, nothing has happened about that incident either, unfortunately.

Sea Shepherd = eco-terrorists.

The Sea Shepherd idiots got what they deserved.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-18 23:17:44 and read 8908 times.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
Sorry..but if the Japanese want to whale in international waters

From what I've heard they are not always in International waters as you claim, in which case we have every right to tell them to bugger off

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
.and they aren't hunting anything endangered either.

Did I say there were?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
The Sea Shepherd idiots got what they deserved.

That's a bit rough IMHO

They are entitled to have a point of view, just as you are in this forum !

[Edited 2010-02-18 23:18:28]

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: SpeedyGonzales
Posted 2010-02-19 00:05:45 and read 8884 times.

Seashepherd is a bunch of petty criminals that accomplish nothing more than endangering the lives of themselves and others, and some fairly good entertainment as a small bonus. Watching Whale Wars always makes me hungry for a nice juicy whale steak.  

I just wish the Japanese call a spade a spade as we do, and say it is commercial whaling. They're not fooling anyone with the 'research' banners.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: MoltenRock
Posted 2010-02-19 00:43:10 and read 8862 times.

The younger generation in Japan doesn't eat whale meat much if at all. Not only because it's very expensive, but also because even their parents didn't and don't eat whale. The only people who really seem to eat it are those who are trying it as a delicacy and the older Japanese people who grew up eating it after WWII.

It really is a bit hypocritical of the US to demand that the very same people that the US government started feeding whale meat in the first place now stop because they said so. The burden of feeding a starving populace in Japan became very clear as they took over running the country in the later 1940s and 1950s.

The problem will take care of itself as every passing year whale becomes less and less sought after.



[Edited 2010-02-19 00:45:14]

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: NAV20
Posted 2010-02-19 07:17:23 and read 8794 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
They are empty words by our Prime Minister Mr Kevin Rudd, or as I like to say Kevin Dudd !!

He's known as 'Krudd' in my family, TheCommodore.  But you're right about them being 'empty words.'

For the information of people who are less familiar with Australian politics, this is actually a promise NOT to do anything about Japanese whaling.

Krudd in fact promised to take action on Japanese whaling before he was elected last time; and has actually done nothing. Since he will almost certainly call a General Election before next November, all he is now promising is, in effect, not to do anything unless and until he is re-elected............

And if he does get re-elected, all he'll need to do is break this new promise like he broke the last one........ 

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: OzGlobal
Posted 2010-02-19 10:31:08 and read 8747 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
It really is hard to take anyone who eats flesh seriously when they condemn another culture for eating flesh of an animal they don't endorse. Octopus are as smart as house cats and yet people eat calamari all day long in the west. People in France and elsewhere eat horse meat. Still other cultures find kitty cat to be the lobster of the land.

I tend to agree. This is very selective, fake moralizing on the part of Australia. I think the Japanese are probably cruel in the whaling process and anyone who believes this has anything to do with 'research' I have some cars for you to look at. But if the species are not endangered, our protest is patent moral priority to the loudest lobbyist. As a carnivor I don't see how I can condemn whale eaters any more than eaters of other animals. If there is no real fisheries dispute specifically relating to these international Antartic waters, this seems a populist political move for domestic Australian consumption.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: BMI727
Posted 2010-02-19 10:44:30 and read 8736 times.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
Likewise, the government has little respect for international law

International law is really mostly a joke. It is little more than pacts that sovereign nations voluntarily subscribe to or is law imposed by a victor in war.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
It really is hard to take anyone who eats flesh seriously when they condemn another culture for eating flesh of an animal they don't endorse.

Any attempt to enact a universal morality will result in tyranny. I think that the Aussies are out of line to decide what the Japanese should or should not hunt and eat. They can make a respectful request, and if the Japanese do not comply they can attempt to use force. Other than that, there is certainly no way the Australians can or should exercise control over Japanese activities.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
Shouldn't the international community (the UN?) step in?

The UN has no teeth either.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
The Sea Shepherd idiots got what they deserved.

  

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: windy95
Posted 2010-02-19 10:44:58 and read 8739 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
It really is hard to take anyone who eats flesh seriously when they condemn another culture for eating flesh of an animal they don't endorse. Octopus are as smart as house cats and yet people eat calamari all day long in the west. People in France and elsewhere eat horse meat. Still other cultures find kitty cat to be the lobster of the land.

agree with this 100%

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 5):
That's already happened with a NZ boat that was rammed and sunk by one of the whaling boats

They got what they deserved. They should not of been trying to place prop foulers into the path of the Japanese Vessel. Last year they colliede with the japanese harpoon ship with an very aggressive move endangering the lives on both ships.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
Sea Shepherd = eco-terrorists.

The Sea Shepherd idiots got what they deserved.

Plain and simple they are Pirates/terrorists.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 8):
From what I've heard they are not always in International waters as you claim

Do they fish in any territorial waters? Link?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 8):
They are entitled to have a point of view, just as you are in this forum !

They are entitled to point of view but they are not entitled to try and disable another vessel. Especially when they are in the middle of the Artic waters far from help.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-19 12:07:35 and read 8698 times.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/whale-wat...ters/2008/02/26/1203788302848.html

http://bushwalking-cycling.com/whale2.html

Quoting windy95 (Reply 14):
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 8):
From what I've heard they are not always in International waters as you claim

Do they fish in any territorial waters? Link?

Here you windy95

Look at these.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Springbok747
Posted 2010-02-19 12:09:46 and read 8696 times.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 14):

They are entitled to point of view but they are not entitled to try and disable another vessel. Especially when they are in the middle of the Artic waters far from help.

Plus that whole drama was to get in the news = more media coverage = more money. They got exactly what they deserved. They are nothing but terrorists...using stink bombs and acid...

The face and eye injuries were a result of a butyric acid attack launched by Sea Shepherd members.

Next time I hope the Japs sink the Sea Shepherd ship (Steve Irwin) with that fat idiot on board.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-19 12:18:54 and read 8692 times.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 16):
Plus that whole drama was to get in the news = more media coverage = more money. They got exactly what they deserved. They are nothing but terrorists...using stink bombs and acid...

The face and eye injuries were a result of a butyric acid attack launched by Sea Shepherd members.

Next time I hope the Japs sink the Sea Shepherd ship (Steve Irwin) with that fat idiot on board.

Hey, several years ago they, the Japanese slaughtered more the 400 hundred Minke whales inside Australian Artic territory.

So before you and windy95 spout off read the above links!!



Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 16):
Next time I hope the Japs sink the Sea Shepherd ship (Steve Irwin) with that fat idiot on board.

You sound like a really frustrated person when it comes to this, but please get your fact's right first.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2010-02-19 12:22:50 and read 8687 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
It really is hard to take anyone who eats flesh seriously when they condemn another culture for eating flesh of an animal they don't endorse. Octopus are as smart as house cats and yet people eat calamari all day long in the west. People in France and elsewhere eat horse meat. Still other cultures find kitty cat to be the lobster of the land.

Calamari is squid, not octopus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squid_%28food%29

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Zentraedi
Posted 2010-02-19 16:46:36 and read 8638 times.

Personally, I find whale meat disgusting.



This whale bacon I had at Hamamatsu Station was one of the worst things I've ever eaten. Sort of like eating plastic with the flavor of rotting fish.   

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: canoecarrier
Posted 2010-02-19 17:14:49 and read 8622 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
It really is hard to take anyone who eats flesh seriously when they condemn another culture for eating flesh of an animal they don't endorse. Octopus are as smart as house cats and yet people eat calamari all day long in the west. People in France and elsewhere eat horse meat. Still other cultures find kitty cat to be the lobster of the land.

*shrug*

The examples you give (cats, horse, and octopus) occur at several orders of magnitude more frequently than the whales the Japanese are hunting. It's not a fair comparison. You can't compare small animals (e.g., cats) to large animals. Large mammals (e.g., elephants, tigers, whales) are generally the most threatened species anywhere on the planet.

What the sea shepard crew does is dumb. I can tell you I've eaten Muktuk or whale skin and blubber, but it was from an Alaskan indian. Harvesting 1 or 2 is one thing, an industrial whaling operation is another.

I personally don't care what the people of X region eat as long as the numbers of the animal/insect/etc. aren't low.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: OzGlobal
Posted 2010-02-19 17:34:57 and read 8604 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
Likewise, the government has little respect for international law

International law is really mostly a joke. It is little more than pacts that sovereign nations voluntarily subscribe to or is law imposed by a victor in war.

If you are ever a POW, you will suddenly become a big believer in international law. Geneva Convention anyone?

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-02-19 17:40:32 and read 8600 times.

I wouldn't be so opposed to it - if the Japanese didn't lie. That's not research - it's whaling for food consumption.

That said, if the negotiations prove to be pointless, maybe it's time to do things a bit more robustly so that the whaling fleet knows in no uncertain terms - you aren't welcome in these waters.

That said, even videos of the whaling seem to be effective - the Japanese seem to dislike surveillance of their activities.

[Edited 2010-02-19 17:41:42]

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: windy95
Posted 2010-02-19 17:43:42 and read 8593 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
Hey, several years ago they, the Japanese slaughtered more the 400 hundred Minke whales inside Australian Artic territory.

No your links state that 400 whales have ben taken so far as best that Sea Shephard can tell. Not taken in Australian territorial waters. It states that the whaling fleet has taken a break and moved into the Australian waters right now. Not that they are whaling there.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Springbok747
Posted 2010-02-19 18:01:23 and read 8581 times.

Quoting cpd (Reply 22):
I wouldn't be so opposed to it - if the Japanese didn't lie. That's not research - it's whaling for food consumption.

Exactly. How is it any different than the millions of chickens/cattle killed every year? The Japanese whalers are also idiots to keep whaling under their 'research' banner. Just come clean..and tell everyone you are whaling for food.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):

You bet I am frustrated! Just the other day they were all over our University handing out fliers about whaling and asking students to be a part of their team. They are nothing more than eco-terrorists who have an agenda...using whales as an excuse to justify carrying out acts such as throwing acid on people. People have been whaling for a long time..(as early as 3000 BC) and the whales are still here. Sustainable hunting actually does wonders for a population of animals. Maybe Mr. Watson and the rest of his cronies should look it up.

And this whole collision issue that these terrorists are clamoring about...anyone who knows anything about boats knows that he is just as guilty and equally to blame for the incident. Looking at the video footage it is clear to see that his ship is under power and heading towards - not away from - the larger vessel.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: MoltenRock
Posted 2010-02-19 18:03:04 and read 8631 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
Hey, several years ago they, the Japanese slaughtered more the 400 hundred Minke whales inside Australian Artic territory. So before you and windy95 spout off read the above links!!

May I ask if you are a vegetarian or vegan?

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 18):
Calamari is squid, not octopus.

Ack! Sorry about that, I had a brainfart. I was originally going to say tako but didn't know if most Americans and Europeans knew what that was.

But octopus are very smart and only invertebrates that use tools. They have been known to board fishing vessels and steal off with food, have both short and long term memories, and incredible complex problem solving skills. They are very smart and extremely hard to keep in captivity because they escape. They have a short life span, but if they lived longer they would likely be even more intelligent, but as it is are as smart or smarter than the average house cat.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 20):
The examples you give (cats, horse, and octopus) occur at several orders of magnitude more frequently than the whales the Japanese are hunting. It's not a fair comparison. You can't compare small animals (e.g., cats) to large animals. Large mammals (e.g., elephants, tigers, whales) are generally the most threatened species anywhere on the planet.

So your basis of what is acceptable vs. cruel is how many left of them there are, and how large in size? What about Bluefin tuna which is far, far, more threatened than Minke whales are. Granted they "only" grow to about 1,000 lbs. put where is the line drawn? What about all the dolphin killed in Yellowfin tuna catching. Bigeye tuna is threatened too.

What about eating Bison? They are mammals that grow to be 2,000 lbs. and many people eat them. The American moose is almost as large too, and used for meat sources. The Inuit and Arctic people of the United States and Canada are allowed to hunt, kill, and eat: polar bear (threatened), seal, Beluga whale, and walrus.


American Inuit Beluga whale kill:


American Inuit skinning a seal after hunting:



[Edited 2010-02-19 18:05:53]

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-19 18:32:17 and read 8606 times.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 23):
Not that they are whaling there.

"The company kills around 440 Minke whales inside Australia's Antarctic Territory each year and has slaughtered whales within the sanctuary every summer since 1987."

And from Wiki,

"Japan also does not recognise the Australian claim to Australian Antarctic territorial waters in which Japanese ships conduct whaling.[2]"

It is inside Australian waters.

The Australian Whale Sanctuary is in the Commonwealth marine area, beyond the coastal waters of each state and territory. It includes all of Australia's Exclusive Economic Zone extending to 200 nautical miles (350 kilometers) from the coast, and includes the waters around the Australian Antarctic Territory and Australia's external territories, such as Christmas, Heard and Macdonald islands.

Also,
"Humpbacks are preyed upon by humans and killer whales. These whales have been hunted to near extinction, and only about 2,500 exist today."

Quoting windy95 (Reply 23):
It states that the whaling fleet has taken a break and moved into the Australian waters right now. Not that they are whaling there.

I can go on quoting,. Please read the article because it states MANY times that it (whaling) is taking place inside Australian waters !

So what do you think they are doing "inside" Australian waters then if there not whaling, holiday cruising ?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 24):
People have been whaling for a long time..(as early as 3000 BC)

That may well be the case, but I don't think back in 3000BC they were catching them in the quantity that they are now days.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 24):
Looking at the video footage it is clear to see that his ship is under power and heading towards - not away from - the larger vessel.

That is your opinion, others say its is the fault of the Japanese boats. who do we believe, you or the others ?

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 25):
May I ask if you are a vegetarian or vegan?

To be precise I am an omnivore. What has that got to do with anything if I may ask ?

[Edited 2010-02-19 18:39:54]

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Asturias
Posted 2010-02-19 19:18:20 and read 8599 times.

Minke whale meat is very good.. but that's not the point. Whaling is hunting in nature and as long as it is balanced and proper, I can't see anything wrong with it.

By the way, calamar are really yummy deep fried with a twist of lemon and a side of fried potatoes. MmmmMMmm!!!  

Might just have some for dinner tomorrow!

asturias

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: windy95
Posted 2010-02-19 19:26:22 and read 8593 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 26):
That is your opinion, others say its is the fault of the Japanese boats. who do we believe, you or the others ?

It is not opinion. Sea Shephard is responsible for anything that happens there. They are the aggressor and are the ones that place themselves in precarious positions. They attempt to damage/disable the Japanese whaling vessels. They attempt to place their vessel in between the harpoon ships and the mother ship to stop the process. They try to place prop foulers in front of the harpoon ships in an attempt to disable the vessel at Sea. They toss objects at the whaling ships and fisherman on board. These people are terrorists plain and simple and should be placed in jail.

As for you Australian waters saga if it was really their territory then you would see Aussie navy vessels stopping them. This is Artic territory that Australia "claims " but is no theirs. This is still international waters and the Japanese are there legally. Ask Mohamar Qaddafi if the Gulf of Sidra is really Libyas. There is a standard legal limit set for all Nations of the world as far as how much Ocean they Control. This Artic Reserve is not actual Australian soverign waters. Learn the difference.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Springbok747
Posted 2010-02-19 19:32:12 and read 8587 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 26):
The company kills around 440 Minke whales inside Australia's Antarctic Territory each year and has slaughtered whales within the sanctuary every summer since 1987."
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 26):
It is inside Australian waters.

Just because we (Australia) claim those waters to be ours..doesn't make them automatically ours. Territorial waters extend only 12 nm anyway according to international laws:

Territorial waters, or a territorial sea, as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea[1], is a belt of coastal waters extending at most twelve nautical miles from the baseline (usually the mean low-water mark) of a coastal state.

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/conventi..._agreements/texts/unclos/part2.htm

Also, I don't understand this 'whale sanctuary' which Australia claims..it is only recognized by the UK and New Zealand..so how can we automatically assume these waters belong to Australia?! It isn't even recognized by the UN or the international community in general..so I don't buy this argument about the Japanese fishing in Australian waters..fact is they were fishing in international waters and Australia has no business interfering with what a sovereign nation like Japan does in international waters. This issue is being brought up by our PM Mr. Krudd because his ratings are starting to slide and he needs to drum up some support.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: L410Turbolet
Posted 2010-02-19 19:43:13 and read 8583 times.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 24):
People have been whaling for a long time..(as early as 3000 BC) and the whales are still here. Sustainable hunting actually does wonders for a population of animals.

Hunting a specie on the brink of an extinction using high-tech ships, sonars and harpoons ans so on can hardly be called as "sustainable"...   That't the core of the problem, let the Japanese "researchers" go back to the means used for whaling 3000 BC and let's see how much they catch.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Springbok747
Posted 2010-02-19 20:23:24 and read 8562 times.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 30):
Hunting a specie on the brink of an extinction using high-tech ships, sonars and harpoons ans so on can hardly be called as "sustainable"

The Japanese aren't hunting any endangered species...and no whale species is on the brink of becoming extinct, even the blue whale is classified as "endangered' and these whalers aren't hunting them anyway.. The Japanese quota includes 935 minke, 50 fin and 50 humpback whales per season.

http://www.whaling.jp/english/qa.html

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/catches.htm#comm

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/table_permit.htm

So yes..sustainable hunting is possible.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-19 20:46:03 and read 8546 times.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 28):
It is not opinion.

Whether you like it or not is is his opinion, because its NOT shared by everyone!

Quoting windy95 (Reply 28):
This is Artic territory that Australia "claims " but is no theirs.

I am talking about what we (Australia) claim to be our's. America also claims waters in the Artic, so does NZ. Seems that Japan is the only one who does not recognize this because it's recognized by everyone else and has been for years and years..

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 29):
This issue is being brought up by our PM Mr. Krudd because his ratings are starting to slide and he needs to drum up some support.

Your right on that point   

I was/am basing my argument on what we, Australia claim as our's. We don't take over anything unintentionally. As I said in Windys post above America claim waters in the Arctic and controls some land as we do, so dose NZ and I think Argentine to, seems to be recognized by everyone else but not Japan for some reason (whaling).

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: BMI727
Posted 2010-02-19 21:09:05 and read 8536 times.

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 21):
If you are ever a POW, you will suddenly become a big believer in international law. Geneva Convention anyone?

Those are laws enforced by the victor. The fact remains that if Japan does not comply, Australia will have little or no recourse other than war, which certainly won't happen.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2010-02-19 22:30:33 and read 8516 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
Octopus are as smart as house cats and yet people eat calamari all day long in the west.

firstly calamari is squid as others have pointed out.
secondly that isn't saying much... house cats whilst cunning are not actually that smart... in fact they are quite stupid. Their brains are about the size of 2 peanuts versus whales that have some of the largest (if not the largest) brains in the animal kingdom. Whales and dolphins are incredibly smart, parts of their brains are more developed than humans.
So far as New Zealand is concerned, if NZL or Japan were to impose sanctions on each other it would hurt Japan more....
Japan exports to NZL were NZ$4b in 2008 whilst NZL exported only NZ$3.6b. So Japan has a net benefit of NZ$400m pa. Most of what NZL exports to Japan would easy be sucked up by the likes of China, on the other hand there is little in extra demand for Japanese cars around the world. Japan is effectively almost bankrupt (govt debt is 200% GDP, seriously aging population with negative population growth and very few young people to pay the bills), they need to be very careful what they do over the coming decades internationally or they could be in very real trouble with no natural resources to bail them out (ala Russia).

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: JCS17
Posted 2010-02-19 22:44:31 and read 8512 times.

I'll never get it. Cattle, fish, chickens, turkeys, and ducks are treated inhumanely in basically every country in which they are slaughtered. I don't really care, but these dumb, docile animals are worthy of my protestations? Whales should be preserved, but they should be culled like every other animal in the food chain.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-02-20 05:25:34 and read 8466 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 25):
So your basis of what is acceptable vs. cruel is how many left of them there are, and how large in size? What about Bluefin tuna which is far, far, more threatened than Minke whales are.

Well the Bluefin Tuna is where this argument should really start as it is documented that Japan stole some hundreds of thousands of tonnes of this fish FROM AUSTRALIAN waters, not off Antarctica. That went on for over a decade - I would not trust anything the Japanese fishing industry ever said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/17/2821922.htm
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/08/11/1154803102432.html
Revealed: how Japan caught and hid $2b worth of rare tuna
An investigation into the imperilled fishery found Japanese fishers and suppliers from other countries caught up to three times the Japanese quota each year for the past 20 years, and hid it.

The Australian Fisheries Management Authority's managing director, Richard McLoughlin, said it was an enormous international fraud. "Essentially the Japanese have stolen $2 billion worth of fish from the international community, and have been sitting in meetings for 15 years saying they are as pure as the driven snow. And it's outrageous."


The poor bloody whales do not have a chance with this lot around.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 28):
This is Artic territory that Australia "claims " but is no theirs.

For heavens sake folk, it is ArCtic and the Arctic is at the opposite end of the world to the Antarctic where the whale theft is going on. Aus would not care if they were whaling in the Arctic and went and ravaged the waters to their east. And the reason why they are not doing that is the northern waters are already fairly heavily ravaged. But it would be a good idea if the Japanese were to try it and we see then how the US reacts.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: windy95
Posted 2010-02-20 05:42:44 and read 8459 times.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 36):
For heavens sake folk, it is ArCtic and the Arctic is at the opposite end of the world to the Antarctic

LOL....Thanks for the correction


I was responding to this....my bad

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
inside Australian Artic territory.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 32):
Quoting windy95 (Reply 28):
It is not opinion.

Whether you like it or not is is his opinion, because its NOT shared by everyone!

It is not opinion. The Eco-Terrorist place themselves in these positions. The Japanese do not seek them out. It is the Sea Shephard people who are 100% responsible for anything that happens. If you poke the hornets nest who is to blame?

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-02-20 06:15:19 and read 8455 times.

I think the stick in the hornet's nest was this.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 36):
Well the Bluefin Tuna is where this argument should really start as it is documented that Japan stole some hundreds of thousands of tonnes of this fish FROM AUSTRALIAN waters, not off Antarctica. That went on for over a decade - I would not trust anything the Japanese fishing industry ever said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/17/2821922.htm
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/08/11/1154803102432.html
Revealed: how Japan caught and hid $2b worth of rare tuna
An investigation into the imperilled fishery found Japanese fishers and suppliers from other countries caught up to three times the Japanese quota each year for the past 20 years, and hid it.

The Australian Fisheries Management Authority's managing director, Richard McLoughlin, said it was an enormous international fraud. "Essentially the Japanese have stolen $2 billion worth of fish from the international community, and have been sitting in meetings for 15 years saying they are as pure as the driven snow. And it's outrageous."

Whaling was just a more conspicuous version. But the Dean Lukins of Port Lincoln had been complaining about the tuna theft for years before someone was able to tally it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Lukin
Lukin was a tuna fisherman who shot to fame as a weightlifter in the 1980s, then returned to run the family fishery business.

This should have been settled by pitting Dean Lukin in his prime against the skipper of a Japanese whaling ship. That would have been a fair fight!!!

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2010-02-20 06:23:54 and read 8455 times.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 38):
This should have been settled by pitting Dean Lukin in his prime against the skipper of a Japanese whaling ship. That would have been a fair fight!!!

LOL now there's a solution all involved parties just might agree to. We should let these enviros duke it out mano-a-mano with the "researchers".   

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: canoecarrier
Posted 2010-02-20 12:01:41 and read 8408 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 25):
So your basis of what is acceptable vs. cruel is how many left of them there are, and how large in size?

In the thousands of years man has been on the planet, yes, this is the most reliable method to determine how threatened a species is. The larger the animal/mammal, based on thousands of years of human behavior, the more likely they are to require special management to keep their numbers from dropping.

The western black rhinoceros, Pacific Beluga whale, and New Zealand porpoise are a few examples of mammals hunted to extinction and Bison was nearly hunted to extinction. Using it as an example now isn't relevant because the meat we get from bison comes from ranches much like cattle.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 25):
The Inuit and Arctic people of the United States and Canada are allowed to hunt, kill, and eat: polar bear (threatened), seal, Beluga whale, and walrus.

I know people who are Inuit and a number of native people from SE Alaska and there is a HUGE difference between the substance hunting they do and commercial Japanese whaling. Killing one or two whales to feed a village is completely different.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 28):
It is not opinion. Sea Shephard is responsible for anything that happens there.

I agree as much as they are at fault for any collisions, deaths, injuries. Their methods border on eco-terrorism.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 31):
So yes..sustainable hunting is possible.

I thought it was "research" not hunting.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: windy95
Posted 2010-02-20 12:50:55 and read 8397 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 25):
polar bear (threatened),

The polar Bear is not threatened..

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: canoecarrier
Posted 2010-02-20 14:47:45 and read 8379 times.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 41):
The polar Bear is not threatened..

Neither is the pacific walrus

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-20 15:07:06 and read 8361 times.

Actually windy95, you first said Artic in your post number 14, go re read!

"They are entitled to point of view but they are not entitled to try and disable another vessel. Especially when they are in the middle of the Artic waters far from help." (quote post 14)

Not responding to me at all as your state here.

Please get your facts right before you lay blame!

Quoting windy95 (Reply 37):
I was responding to this....my bad

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
inside Australian Artic territory.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 32):
Quoting windy95 (Reply 28):
It is not opinion.



[Edited 2010-02-20 15:08:12]

[Edited 2010-02-20 15:10:27]

[Edited 2010-02-20 15:11:48]

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-02-20 15:58:23 and read 8319 times.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...-whaling-action-20100221-on2l.html

The opposition here is frightened to reveal its real stance on whaling action - so it is being evasive.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Revelation
Posted 2010-02-20 16:29:14 and read 8311 times.

Quoting SpeedyGonzales (Reply 9):
I just wish the Japanese call a spade a spade as we do, and say it is commercial whaling. They're not fooling anyone with the 'research' banners.

Maybe they are researching how whale meat tastes?  

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: MoltenRock
Posted 2010-02-20 22:09:43 and read 8247 times.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 41):
The polar Bear is not threatened..

Meh. Wiki said they were. *shrug*

Quoting Baroque (Reply 36):
Well the Bluefin Tuna is where this argument should really start as it is documented that Japan stole some hundreds of thousands of tonnes of this fish FROM AUSTRALIAN waters, not off Antarctica.

And? What is Australia going to do about it to stop it? If they don't stop go to war with them? Seriously, what do you want the rest of the world to do about it? Whine in unison? Issue a statement condemning the activity? It's a waste of time. Either your Australian Navy torpedoes the Japanese boat to send a message, or stop whining. *shrug*

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 40):
In the thousands of years man has been on the planet, yes, this is the most reliable method to determine how threatened a species is.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry but unless you yourself are a vegetarian or vegan I really don't see how you have a leg to stand on. Just because pop culture gives more credence towards one "cute" animal or "smart" animal vs. another and therefore off menu, doesn't make it any worse than slaughtering cows, pigs, ducks, chickens, and the like. I've listened to Americans laugh at starving people from India for not eating cow, while blasting some Asians for eating dog. As if one flesh is any better/worse than another flesh.

If you eat animal flesh/meat CanoeCarrier you have ZERO room for complaining about another culture eating a different kind of flesh/meat you don't agree with in my book. Sorry.

[Edited 2010-02-20 22:24:33]

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Springbok747
Posted 2010-02-20 22:20:52 and read 8235 times.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 40):
I know people who are Inuit and a number of native people from SE Alaska and there is a HUGE difference between the substance hunting they do and commercial Japanese whaling.

Whats the difference? Its all about numbers isn't it? The Japanese whalers also have a quota..and they hunt to fill their quota. Its not as though they are slaughtering these things indiscriminately...

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-20 22:28:38 and read 8230 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 46):
And? What is Australia going to do about it to stop it? If they don't stop go to war with them.

We shouldn't have to do anything about it.

Japan should respect our territory and sovereign waters and go fish around Japan, instead of coming all the way down here to steal our fish, because that what it is, plain and simple. 
Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 46):
cows, pigs, ducks, chickens, and the like.

Surely these animal's that you mentioned are farmed in a sustainable manner, well planned and coordinated, whale's on the other hand are caught in an indiscriminate way.   

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: L-188
Posted 2010-02-20 22:34:51 and read 8224 times.

Quoting SpeedyGonzales (Reply 9):
Seashepherd ...............that accomplish nothing more than endangering the lives of themselves and others, and some fairly good entertainment as a small bonus

I took out the part that I am not sure I agree with anymore.

Quoting SpeedyGonzales (Reply 9):
I just wish the Japanese call a spade a spade as we do, and say it is commercial whaling. They're not fooling anyone with the 'research' banners

That is one of the things that really ticks me off.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
International law is really mostly a joke.

Agree completely.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 26):
And from Wiki,

"Japan also does not recognise the Australian claim to Australian Antarctic territorial waters in which Japanese ships conduct whaling.[2]"

It is inside Australian waters.

The Australian Whale Sanctuary is in the Commonwealth marine area, beyond the coastal waters of each state and territory. It includes all of Australia's Exclusive Economic Zone extending to 200 nautical miles (350 kilometers) from the coast, and includes the waters around the Australian Antarctic Territory and Australia's external territories, such as Christmas, Heard and Macdonald islands.

If the Aussies are serious about this zone, they need to defend it. Untill then it is just a line on a map.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 28):
Sea Shephard is responsible for anything that happens there. They are the aggressor and are the ones that place themselves in precarious positions. They attempt to damage/disable the Japanese whaling vessels. They attempt to place their vessel in between the harpoon ships and the mother ship to stop the process. They try to place prop foulers in front of the harpoon ships in an attempt to disable the vessel at Sea. They toss objects at the whaling ships and fisherman on board
Quoting Baroque (Reply 36):
I would not trust anything the Japanese fishing industry ever said.

Having seen the way the work in Alaska, you are quite correct. They really are rapists of the ocean and as a general whole they have a superior racists attitude.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 36):
But it would be a good idea if the Japanese were to try it and we see then how the US reacts.

From what I have seen in the Pollack fleet, not much.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 37):
The Japanese do not seek them out. It is the Sea Shephard people who are 100% responsible for anything that happens. If you poke the hornets nest who is to blame?

Who is doing the poking, seems the Japs are the ones that are runnign around with the sticks.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: MoltenRock
Posted 2010-02-20 22:40:44 and read 8215 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 48):
Surely these animal's that you mentioned are farmed in a sustainable manner, well planned and coordinated, whale's on the other hand are caught in an indiscriminate way.   

I don't see a single, solitary, difference. It's all semantics to make the person feel better about not having to acknowledging eating tuna, cow, chicken, pig, lamb, etc. Animal flesh, is animal flesh, PERIOD! in my book.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 48):
We shouldn't have to do anything about it.

I agree but guess what? Nothing is going to change unless you get tough. It's on YOUR country to do something about it. Sorry.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-02-20 23:25:43 and read 8190 times.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 48):
Japan should respect our territory and sovereign waters and go fish around Japan, instead of coming all the way down here to steal our fish, because that what it is, plain and simple.

Or preferably just go fish - period!

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 48):
Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 46):
cows, pigs, ducks, chickens, and the like.

Surely these animal's that you mentioned are farmed in a sustainable manner, well planned and coordinated, whale's on the other hand are caught in an indiscriminate way.

You know MR he does rather have a point there.

What I do not understand is where Aus fears it turning into a trade war.

What do we export to Japan? Coal and iron ore mostly. Aside from the exporting companies being part owned by Japanese companies, where else is Japan going to buy - for example - coking coal? Nowhere is where. There is some US coking coal, but the news has been out for years, the US coals make cokes with carbon dioxide reactivities about twice (which means twice as BAD) as those of Aus coking coals. They have no real choices.

What do we import? Toyotas and Honda and Nissans. Er I think some other countries make cars and fridges and TV sets and whatever, mostly in China anyway.

Where is the problem Mr Smith??

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-02-21 00:50:28 and read 8165 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 50):
I agree but guess what? Nothing is going to change unless you get tough. It's on YOUR country to do something about it. Sorry.

As it is, negotiations and diplomacy with Japan are fruitless. The warriors code of negotiation is the next step... Will we take it that far.... And would the spineless opposition support something like that?

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2010-02-21 02:58:43 and read 8140 times.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
the Japanese eat whales..so they go whaling

But as others here point out not many Japanese eat whale anymore and it's never been a traditional food source for them. I have read that there are hundreds of thousands of tons of whale meat in cold storage all over Japan, people just don't want to eat it.

Quoting SpeedyGonzales (Reply 9):
Watching Whale Wars always makes me hungry for a nice juicy whale steak.

You'd be one of the few Norwegians who do eat it. I've tried it several times and each time it's been pretty unpleasant. The argument to continue whaling commercially in Norway is also pretty weak, the whaling fleet is heavely subsidised by the govt, it's can't stand on it own feet, I believe there are less than 500 people involved in the industry.

I have absolutely no problem with indegenious people whaling using traditional methods, it's a tradition and they should be allowed to continue with it. Commercail whaling is really just Norway, Iceland and Japanese giving the international community the finger.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 40):
New Zealand porpoise are a few examples of mammals hunted to extinction

By New Zealand porpoise do you mean Hectors dolphin, it's the only species endimic to NZ, whilst endangered it's not extince yet.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: NIKV69
Posted 2010-02-21 06:57:58 and read 8104 times.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 46):
And? What is Australia going to do about it to stop it? If they don't stop go to war with them? Seriously, what do you want the rest of the world to do about it? Whine in unison? Issue a statement condemning the activity? It's a waste of time. Either your Australian Navy torpedoes the Japanese boat to send a message, or stop whining. *shrug*

At the rate things are going I would imagine a real nasty encounter between the Japanese whaling ships and the activists will lead to something like this. Something is going to give soon. Japan has been defying law for too long.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 46):
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry but unless you yourself are a vegetarian or vegan I really don't see how you have a leg to stand on. Just because pop culture gives more credence towards one "cute" animal or "smart" animal vs. another and therefore off menu, doesn't make it any worse than slaughtering cows, pigs, ducks, chickens, and the like. I've listened to Americans laugh at starving people from India for not eating cow, while blasting some Asians for eating dog. As if one flesh is any better/worse than another flesh

You can probably forward your resume to PETA, we don't need this propaganda here but they would love to hear it. Maybe you too can go hold signs up at dog shows too.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 50):
I don't see a single, solitary, difference. It's all semantics to make the person feel better about not having to acknowledging eating tuna, cow, chicken, pig, lamb, etc. Animal flesh, is animal flesh, PERIOD! in my book.

Goodness are you serious?

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 50):
I agree but guess what? Nothing is going to change unless you get tough. It's on YOUR country to do something about it. Sorry

AUS may be forced to get involved soon. Would be nice to see. May be the first step in stopping this

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2010-02-21 07:17:51 and read 8101 times.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 53):
But as others here point out not many Japanese eat whale anymore and it's never been a traditional food source for them.

Not quite true, my wife reports that as an elementary student in the late '70s they were regularly served fried sticks of whale meat in the school cafeteria. Not many kids liked it though as it required heaps of sauce to be half enjoyable.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 53):
I have read that there are hundreds of thousands of tons of whale meat in cold storage all over Japan, people just don't want to eat it.

Of course people don't want to eat it - it's bland, smells bad, and is only really edible when fried, unlike a lot of other seafood.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: canoecarrier
Posted 2010-02-21 15:09:30 and read 8034 times.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 54):
By New Zealand porpoise do you mean Hectors dolphin, it's the only species endimic to NZ, whilst endangered it's not extince yet.

My mistake I was referring to a common name for Maui's dolphins and you're right they aren't extinct yet, I had heard they were but their numbers are less than 150 individuals.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 54):
You can probably forward your resume to PETA, we don't need this propaganda here but they would love to hear it. Maybe you too can go hold signs up at dog shows too.

Agreed.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 46):
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry but unless you yourself are a vegetarian or vegan I really don't see how you have a leg to stand on.

This is the most ridiculous argument I've seen on this forum in years.

Topic: RE: AUS Tells Japan To Stop Whaling
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-21 15:26:42 and read 8021 times.

New Zealand may join anti-whaling lawsuit.

Lets hope the kiwi's come on board and be apart of this action should it go ahead.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10627695


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