Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/non_aviation/read.main/2285607/

Topic: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: thegreatRDU
Posted 2010-11-30 12:09:30 and read 3396 times.

For the last 18 months, Dan Crews has been waging a battle to die, one that he is losing.
For the last 24 years -- since he was paralyzed at age 3 in a car accident -- Crews has been a quadriplegic, able to speak and eat, but not breathe on his own.
"Just imagine having your arms and legs strapped down 24 hours a day, seven days a week and not being able to do anything about it and not going anywhere," said the 27-year-old, who lives with his mother in Antioch, Ill.
"I have no friends," Crews told ABC News. "I have no education. No education prospects. No job prospects. I have no love prospects. All I want is to no longer live like this."
The Supreme Court ruled a decade ago that a person can refuse medical treatment -- provided they are competent. And that is the biggest hurdle for Crews.
The head psychiatrist at Froedtert Hospital in Wauwatosa, where Crews has received most of his treatment since he was airlifted from the accident, says he is depressed and that overrides his ability to make a life or death decision.
The hospital did not return calls for comment, but medical records obtained by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel revealed that psychiatrists and mental health professionals have ruled Crews is depressed and must be treated before they will agree to such an irrevocable step.
Crews said he is not depressed -- "no more than the average person in my position."

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/quadrip...story?id=12274720&cid=ESPNheadline

I say let him go and put him out of his misery...

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Fly2HMO
Posted 2010-11-30 12:16:24 and read 3387 times.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Thread starter):
I say let him go and put him out of his misery...

I have to agree. I would want to kill myself after being basically a vegetable after just a year.

It's his life. If he wants to end it sooner then by all means, go ahead. No one else should have a say on it other than himself.

What baffles me is this:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Thread starter):
mental health professionals have ruled Crews is depressed and must be treated before they will agree to such an irrevocable step.

Just how the heck do you treat someone like this!?!? It's impossible. He has no way of getting a social life, ever. I don't know of any treatment that allows you to stay locked up doing nothing. Drowning him in antidepressants won't do anything either.

[Edited 2010-11-30 12:20:19]

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2010-11-30 14:06:18 and read 3285 times.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1):
Just how the heck do you treat someone like this!?!? It's impossible. He has no way of getting a social life, ever. I don't know of any treatment that allows you to stay locked up doing nothing. Drowning him in antidepressants won't do anything either.

Well, think of it this way. You've probably known many people that have at one point been depressed and wanted to kill themselves, and if it was up to them at that very moment, they would have. But they had some cooling down and are glad they didn't. I think what they are saying is that he is depressed and don't want them to make the decision while he is in the depression because he might be thinking differently than normal. Who knows. Terrible, I feel bad for the guy

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2010-11-30 14:13:54 and read 3273 times.

How long has this guy wanted to end his life for? It looks like this decision is relatively recent. If that is indeed the case, then I don't blame the doctors one bit for stalling. There are various legal consequences for them if they don't take the time to make sure he's not merely depressed, especially if he had shown zero interest before.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Terrible, I feel bad for the guy

And his parents. His dad doesn't believe his son should die (for what appear to be selfish reasons), but his mom supports him.


Just a sad, sad tale all around.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: DesertJets
Posted 2010-11-30 14:16:42 and read 3269 times.

I think this is a case where having somebody with power of attorney (whether it be a family member or otherwise) to advocate on your behalf.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2010-11-30 14:34:29 and read 3246 times.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1):

Just how the heck do you treat someone like this!?!? It's impossible. He has no way of getting a social life, ever. I don't know of any treatment that allows you to stay locked up doing nothing. Drowning him in antidepressants won't do anything either.

If he weren't depressed, it certainly wouldn't be impossible. There are multiple approaches to depression that don't necessarily require antidepressant treatment. Until they've tried CBT, change of scenery, hobby stimulation, and other activities, there is no reason to write him off already.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 3):
There are various legal consequences for them if they don't take the time to make sure he's not merely depressed, especially if he had shown zero interest before.

Exactly. They are bound by their professional ethical requirements to ensure he is in a psychiatrically stable frame of mind before doing any kind of medical decisionmaking.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Flighty
Posted 2010-11-30 14:50:10 and read 3234 times.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):
They are bound by their professional ethical requirements to ensure he is in a psychiatrically stable frame of mind before doing any kind of medical decisionmaking.

Well... it's a catch-22. Someone who does not want to live, is by many definitions mentally ill. No one could be allowed to intentionally die according to that standard.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2010-11-30 15:56:50 and read 3181 times.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
Someone who does not want to live, is by many definitions mentally ill. No one could be allowed to intentionally die according to that standard.

Yes but there are many shades to the grey you describe. Big difference between being totally lucid and mentally competent while sitting in a hospital bed hooked up to machines after hearing a negative diagnosis, and being sick and tired of bad luck and/or financial troubles pondering going over the side of a bridge.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Fly2HMO
Posted 2010-11-30 16:50:40 and read 3144 times.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):

Yes but there are many shades to the grey you describe. Big difference between being totally lucid and mentally competent while sitting in a hospital bed hooked up to machines after hearing a negative diagnosis, and being sick and tired of bad luck and/or financial troubles pondering going over the side of a bridge.

I think he has a legitimate excuse. And just how could somebody possibly find happiness after laying in bed for 24 continuous years? Even if you have 10 naked supermodels lying next to you during that whole time, it's not like you can do anything with them anyways.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2010-11-30 17:00:01 and read 3137 times.

Situations like this show a great conflict - that our ability to save and prolong life exceeds the ability for someone to have a reasonable quality of normal life. One reason to not allow someone to make the choice to end life is that one could have emotional pressures put on them by family members and those facing the financial costs of his very expensive life care, including the local hospital as well as the State and Federal governments. This is one of the major allegations made by some against the Federal Health Care Reform, that 'death panels' could make life ending decisions as to such persons due to the costs of care to such persons.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: WarRI1
Posted 2010-11-30 17:57:19 and read 3092 times.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 9):
Situations like this show a great conflict - that our ability to save and prolong life exceeds the ability for someone to have a reasonable quality of normal life.



A wise statement to that point. How can anyone hope to know what this poor person is going through? How can anyone speak for him, including his parents and family? Just think of his quality of life for 24 years. He was royally screwed when he survived to exist as he has for so long. I just love people who would save him to exist for many more years tied to machines. Let the poor man go. He has the right to choose.  

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Quokka
Posted 2010-11-30 18:05:39 and read 3085 times.

Very sad situation indeed.

Last year a man in Western Australia was forced to go all the way to the Supreme Court before he could be granted his wish to refuse treatment.
On the one hand there were the interests of the person who wanted control over his own life and body. On the other the implications for the care facility in an environment where "assisted suicide" is unlawful.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/14/2656334.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/21/2691331.htm

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-30 18:44:09 and read 3061 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 3):
Just a sad, sad tale all around.

This is a very tricky ethical situation. On one hand, we have an ethical responsibility to provide some quality of life to the person by caring for them. on the other hand, we have a responsibility to keep them alive too.

The only way it'll be solved is by getting the legal people involved.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Marcus
Posted 2010-12-01 05:27:45 and read 2942 times.

This reminds me of Ramon Sampedro.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram%C3%B3n_Sampedro

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: IMissPiedmont
Posted 2010-12-01 06:31:43 and read 2916 times.

All of the above are valid points. But the 2 most important are the fact that it's his life and no matter what the circumstance he should be allowed to end it, even if he's "just" depressed vs the hospital rules that would not allow their participation. He should get someone to take him from the hospital, take him out to the woods and put a bullet in his head, problem solved.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: iairallie
Posted 2010-12-01 07:50:40 and read 2880 times.

I think all these QOL arguments are a crock. Being a quadraplegic places serious trials in your life but it isn't a bar on having a quality enjoyable life. The reasons he cites for wanting to die are BS he can get an education, he can get a job he can even find companionship. While his body is damaged there is nothing wrong with his brain and as long as your brain works you can use it to learn, work, & make the world a better place. I know a guy about the same age as this one that is quadraplegic he uses adaptive technology to learn & work online. He has friends and a social life. Yes he will allways have to live in a skilled nursing facility but there is no reason why he cannot make friends and have a social life and make a contribution to society.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: thegreatRDU
Posted 2010-12-01 11:45:56 and read 2800 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 15):
Being a quadraplegic places serious trials in your life but it isn't a bar on having a quality enjoyable life.

For this guy it is...grant him his wish and set him free...

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: futurepilot16
Posted 2010-12-01 12:48:47 and read 2772 times.

I had Guillian Barre syndrome when I was in the 8th grade. It was brought on by an allergic reaction. For one whole week I knew what it was like to be a vegetable. I couldn't walk, I could barely move my limbs, it was a neurological disease that to this day I'm still thankful that my doctors were able to get me the antibiotics before It got any worse. To this day, anytime a doctor looks through my files and sees that I survived that disease without major neurological damage, they tell me how lucky I am.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 15):
I think all these QOL arguments are a crock. Being a quadraplegic places serious trials in your life but it isn't a bar on having a quality enjoyable life. The reasons he cites for wanting to die are BS he can get an education, he can get a job he can even find companionship. While his body is damaged there is nothing wrong with his brain and as long as your brain works you can use it to learn, work, & make the world a better place. I know a guy about the same age as this one that is quadraplegic he uses adaptive technology to learn & work online. He has friends and a social life. Yes he will allways have to live in a skilled nursing facility but there is no reason why he cannot make friends and have a social life and make a contribution to society.

Dude you don't know that. Would you want to be tied down for the last 24 years, not being able to do ANYTHING? Think about that for a sec. What companionship? I hate to sound so awful but who in the world would date this guy? Let's be realistic. What is he gonna do with an education? He's been a veg for 24 years and you can't imagine the pain of not being able to move for 1 day (I have) let alone 24 YEARS. The best he can hope for at this point is that advances in science will one day allow him to regain use of his limbs

This is an extremely sad situation and If I were him, I would wanna die too. Someone who commented on the story on abcnews.com stated that the main reason why they don't want him to die is money. The longer he's alive, the more money that is made by the psychiatrist, the more money he gets to pay for medications, home care etc. His family members should realize that they're doing him a favor by putting him out of his misery.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Fly2HMO
Posted 2010-12-01 12:57:04 and read 2767 times.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 17):

Dude you don't know that. Would you want to be tied down for the last 24 years, not being able to do ANYTHING? Think about that for a sec. What companionship? I hate to sound so awful but who in the world would date this guy? Let's be realistic. What is he gonna do with an education? He's been a veg for 24 years and you can't imagine the pain of not being able to move for 1 day (I have) let alone 24 YEARS.

Agreed 1000000%

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 17):
The best he can hope for at this point is that advances in science will one day allow him to regain use of his limbs

Even with all the advances in stem cell research lately, he'd have to be very lucky if they discover a cure for his condition before he reaches 50.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 17):
Someone who commented on the story on abcnews.com stated that the main reason why they don't want him to die is money.

And also, nobody has the cojones to put him down.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: iairallie
Posted 2010-12-01 14:55:56 and read 2743 times.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 17):
Dude you don't know that

I'm not a dude, dude.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 17):
Would you want to be tied down for the last 24 years, not being able to do ANYTHING?

Of course you wouldn't want that but I disagree that you can't do anything. His brain is functioning there is adaptive technology that allows one to use the internet & computers. He can think, speak, see, hear. He can still enjoy music, literature. Please tell me what about his condition prevents him from being able to get an education which is one of his complaints? What prevents him from finding employment. I read an article about a quad who started his own business and is more sucessful than most able bodied persons. I know a quadraplegic man same age as this one who is gainfully employed. There are options sure you have to be creative in finding employment but there are options.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 17):
What companionship? I hate to sound so awful but who in the world would date this guy?

There are women who are also in his shoes maybe he could start there. The quadraplegic guy I know does online dating and actually goes on dates with all kinds of women.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: futurepilot16
Posted 2010-12-01 15:47:53 and read 2724 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 19):
I'm not a dude, dude.

It's a figure of speech lady.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 19):
Of course you wouldn't want that but I disagree that you can't do anything. His brain is functioning there is adaptive technology that allows one to use the internet & computers. He can think, speak, see, hear. He can still enjoy music, literature. Please tell me what about his condition prevents him from being able to get an education which is one of his complaints? What prevents him from finding employment. I read an article about a quad who started his own business and is more sucessful than most able bodied persons. I know a quadraplegic man same age as this one who is gainfully employed. There are options sure you have to be creative in finding employment but there are options.

I don't even know where to start. Let's see, should he want to be put out of his misery, or should he spend thousands of dollars on software equipment and computers so that he can listen to music on the internet? Have you even considered that maybe he doesn't want that. Literature? That sounds boring to me and i'm able bodied. What prevents him from finding employment is the fact that he can't even breath on his own. It doesn't matter how many options you think there are for him, the fact is, he's been living in a world of movement for 24 years and not being able to do so is the most frustrating thing in the world.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 19):
There are women who are also in his shoes maybe he could start there. The quadraplegic guy I know does online dating and actually goes on dates with all kinds of women.

Now you're being just a little too optimistic.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: iairallie
Posted 2010-12-01 16:16:35 and read 2716 times.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 20):
Now you're being just a little too optimistic.

What is optimistic about it. I actually know a guy who is a quad and dates using an online dating site. He goes out with friends and holds a job.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 20):
Let's see, should he want to be put out of his misery, or should he spend thousands of dollars on software equipment and computers so that he can listen to music on the internet? Have you even considered that maybe he doesn't want that. Literature? That sounds boring to me and i'm able bodied.

I love to read it doesn't really suprise me that you don't. If there were tools available to make my life better it would be worth that and more.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: futurepilot16
Posted 2010-12-01 16:54:42 and read 2705 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 21):

I love to read it doesn't really suprise me that you don't. If there were tools available to make my life better it would be worth that and more.

The fact is, if he wanted literature and music and job opportunities and all the other pretty butterfly things you included, rather than death, he would have asked for it. You shouldn't claim that he would like something because you like it or because you know someone in a similar situation who excels at everything like superman, therefore, this individual should be the same. There should be assisted euthanasia for people like this who wants it.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2010-12-01 17:41:57 and read 2684 times.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):

If he weren't depressed, it certainly wouldn't be impossible. There are multiple approaches to depression that don't necessarily require antidepressant treatment. Until they've tried CBT, change of scenery, hobby stimulation, and other activities, there is no reason to write him off already.

This keeps driving me nuts. I know that if I ever were a quadruplegic, I would want the plug pulled. In fact, it's in my living will that I, as an active adult who is in sound mind, do not want to be kept alive if I am not able to breathe for myself in the long term.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2010-12-01 18:38:25 and read 2669 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 15):
I think all these QOL arguments are a crock. Being a quadraplegic places serious trials in your life but it isn't a bar on having a quality enjoyable life. The reasons he cites for wanting to die are BS he can get an education, he can get a job he can even find companionship. While his body is damaged there is nothing wrong with his brain and as long as your brain works you can use it to learn, work, & make the world a better place. I know a guy about the same age as this one that is quadraplegic he uses adaptive technology to learn & work online. He has friends and a social life. Yes he will allways have to live in a skilled nursing facility but there is no reason why he cannot make friends and have a social life and make a contribution to society.

I am stunned at the arrogance of your post , how dare you dismiss this mans feelings about his own life as "a crock" and deride his reasons for wanting to be allowed to die as "BS" . He is the only person who is in a position to judge whether or not his life is bearable and he clearly does not find it bearable , and I doubt that patronising platitudes from holier-than-thou people are going to significantly change that for him.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Fly2HMO
Posted 2010-12-01 18:53:49 and read 2684 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):

This keeps driving me nuts. I know that if I ever were a quadruplegic, I would want the plug pulled. In fact, it's in my living will that I, as an active adult who is in sound mind, do not want to be kept alive if I am not able to breathe for myself in the long term.

What bugs me even more is that people think they have a right to control or have a say in other people's lives. If this guy want's to kill himself, then so be it. It doesn't affect me or anybody else in the planet one bit if he pulls through with it. It's the same flawed logic used against homosexuals, abortionists, etc. Just leave them be FFS.

The only complicated issue I see is who has to do it, because obviously he can't kill himself. If I was him I'd just hire an executioner from whatever the nearest death penalty-friendly prison and have him lethally inject me. Clean, fast, and simple. Of course before that I'd say my goodbyes and made sure nobody felt guilty or responsible in any way due to my decision.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: iairallie
Posted 2010-12-01 23:19:42 and read 2651 times.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 22):
You shouldn't claim that he would like something because you like it or because you know someone in a similar situation who excels at everything like superman, therefore, this individual should be the same. There should be assisted euthanasia for people like this who wants it.

Colby is not a superman he is just a guy who had a traumatic accident and is making the most of his life. Quadreplegia does not by default = a worthless life. How dare you equate it as such. What an arrogant thing to do.

I'm not claiming this guy should like anything. I am claiming that 1) quadraplegia does not bar a person from living a quality life with joy, love, fulfillment and all the other things that are part of the human existence does it make it harder absolutely but it is not impossible or even unlikely. 2) his claim that being a quad means he has no hope for an education is nonsense. If your brain works you can learn.

I don't think anyone should have to LIKE being quadrepligic. I doubt Colby LIKES being quadrepligic but he doesn't use it as an excuse to squander what gifts and talents that he still possesses.

This guy is depressed he has the right to deny treatment but depression skews judgement and many jurisdictions rightly have laws that protect people from making unalterable decisions when they are not of sound mind. Should we allow all depressed people to kill themselves if they desire? Depression is usually not a permanent state. Treat his depression and re-evaluate to see if he still wants to deny treatment. If he still wants to at that point fine it is his right according to the law.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
In fact, it's in my living will that I, as an active adult who is in sound mind, do not want to be kept alive if I am not able to breathe for myself in the long term.

That is the way to do it. There can be no question of your intent and there can be no question of whether your decision is skewed by depression.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 24):
how dare you dismiss this mans feelings about his own life as "a crock" and deride his reasons for wanting to be allowed to die as "BS" .

NO how dare people on this thread say that being a quadriplegic automatically means you have no hope of any quality of life and that as a quad your life is automatically so worthless that you should just go ahead and die when EVERYONE of with a functioning mind is capable of contributing something to society. The "crock" has nothing to do with his feelings the "crock" is that certain people on this thread are buying into the theory life as a quad is automatically and hopelessly worthless when it is CLEARLY not. How many quadreplegics do you know? Furthermore, I was not dismissing the man's feelings I was dismissing the assertion by many on this thread that a quadriplegic's life isn't worth living and I am dissmissing the man's argument (not feelings but argument) that because of his injury he cannot get an education BULL. His brain works he can get an education.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2010-12-01 23:48:08 and read 2656 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):
NO how dare people on this thread say that being a quadriplegic automatically means you have no hope of any quality of life and that as a quad your life is automatically so worthless that you should just go ahead and die when EVERYONE of with a functioning mind is capable of contributing something to society.
Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):
I was dismissing the assertion by many on this thread that a quadriplegic's life isn't worth living

Please quote even a single of instance of someone in this thread saying that being a quadriplegic automatically means you have no hope of any quality of life , let alone many people saying that ? So far as I can see not one poster has said that . I have seen a number of posts which say that if this particular person with quadriplegia feels that he has no hope of quality of life that he should be allowed to make his own decisions and that other people should respect that , I have seen some posters who have said that for themselves they would not want to go on living if they became quadriplegic ( and that is their right to make that choice about their own lives ) , but I have not seen a single person make the offensive suggestion that all people with quadriplegia have lives that aren't worth living .

[Edited 2010-12-01 23:51:05]

[Edited 2010-12-01 23:51:37]

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: MSPNWA
Posted 2010-12-02 00:27:38 and read 2635 times.

The first name that came to mind after reading the article was Joni Eareckson Tada. This man could be successful in life and make himself an inspiration for millions. Instead he has chosen a path with no advancement for himself and others. That's what's truly sad about this story. He should be looking at what he can do, not what he can't. He could consider himself fortunate in that he didn't live much of a life with the use of his arms and legs. Imagine growing up with the use of them and then losing it - that has to be incredibly difficult to accept. Instead it's always "I can't . . ." Well, there's the root cause of his problems. This man may have a brilliant mind that few, if any, possess. Yet he's wasting it away, for the hindrance of himself and others.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 15):
I think all these QOL arguments are a crock. Being a quadraplegic places serious trials in your life but it isn't a bar on having a quality enjoyable life. The reasons he cites for wanting to die are BS he can get an education, he can get a job he can even find companionship. While his body is damaged there is nothing wrong with his brain and as long as your brain works you can use it to learn, work, & make the world a better place. I know a guy about the same age as this one that is quadraplegic he uses adaptive technology to learn & work online. He has friends and a social life. Yes he will always have to live in a skilled nursing facility but there is no reason why he cannot make friends and have a social life and make a contribution to society.

I totally agree. This man needs help to live, not help to die. We should be bending over backwards to help him find a purpose and direction in life, not a pathway to the grave. Putting yourself away is the easy, selfish road, and it should never be admissible.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Quokka
Posted 2010-12-02 01:46:45 and read 2616 times.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 28):
Putting yourself away is the easy, selfish road, and it should never be admissible.


It is indeed a funny world where societies see nothing wrong with taking other people's lives, in fact, in some circumstances it is considered praiseworthy, while in other cases deaths may be excused as regrettable but justifiable. Yet we criticise those who wish to end their own lives.

Of course it may be "selfish" from the point of view of a person not in the position of wanting to make a choice. Yes, it would be preferable that people do have alternatives and are given the support they may need. But it is the height of arrogance to proclaim that any individual should not have the right to make an informed decision regarding his/ her life. Why is it that people object to the idea that a person should have the right to choose?

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: futurepilot16
Posted 2010-12-02 06:46:26 and read 2568 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):
Colby is not a superman he is just a guy who had a traumatic accident and is making the most of his life. Quadreplegia does not by default = a worthless life. How dare you equate it as such. What an arrogant thing to do.

I NEVER said such a thing. I just merely said that if this man feels as though he has no purpose in life, you shouldn't belittle his feelings and treat him like a charity case. It's his choice to die. The fact that people like you are throwing all these so-called "opportunities" in his face, opportunities that he might never be able to achieve,, is just cruelty.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):
I don't think anyone should have to LIKE being quadrepligic. I doubt Colby LIKES being quadrepligic but he doesn't use it as an excuse to squander what gifts and talents that he still possesses.

Well...it's obvious that Colby is a lot more optimistic than Mr. Crews is. Mind you, I don't know this Colby person, but you would have to show me proof that he's been disable since the age of 3. All Mr.Crews knows is disability. He's never had a normal life and he never will. If he wants out, so be it.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):
This guy is depressed he has the right to deny treatment but depression skews judgement and many jurisdictions rightly have laws that protect people from making unalterable decisions when they are not of sound mind. Should we allow all depressed people to kill themselves if they desire? Depression is usually not a permanent state. Treat his depression and re-evaluate to see if he still wants to deny treatment. If he still wants to at that point fine it is his right according to the law.

Oh please, who knows how long he's wanted to die? They've probably been telling him that he's "depressed" for years, all so that he can spend his $4 million on psychiatrists and therapy and medications. If this guy didn't have that money, you think anyone would care? Please answer me that. When he's unable to pay his medical expenses, we'll see how quick this doctors stop caring.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):
I am dissmissing the man's argument (not feelings but argument) that because of his injury he cannot get an education BULL. His brain works he can get an education

Again, just as with the whole "literature" thing, what's he supposed to do with an education, cure cancer? How do you know that the man wants to spend the rest of his life in a classroom? How do you know that he has the funds for an education? You're assuming all these things and they make ZERO sense. You're telling him, "he should do this, he should do that", how do you know he wants to do all that?

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: iairallie
Posted 2010-12-02 09:26:59 and read 2537 times.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 30):
How do you know that the man wants to spend the rest of his life in a classroom? How do you know that he has the funds for an education?

I don't know that he wants to spend the "rest of his life in a classroom" HOWEVER the guy cites as one of his reasons for wanting to die that he is incapbable of getting an education. Which is why I focused on that issue. He is NOT incapable based on his physical condition. I have no idea what his budgetary constraints are but I imagine there are grants, charitble funds and plenty of people willing to sponsor his education if he is willing to put in the effort to obtain it

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 30):
You're assuming all these things and they make ZERO sense

You are the one making crazy assumptions. I based everything I had to say on what the man cited as his reasoning in the article and the information that I know proves his some of his assumptions to be false.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 30):
You're telling him, "he should do this, he should do that", how do you know he wants to do all that?

I'm not telling him he should do anything I am saying he can do this or that if he chooses do this or that. I know that he wants those things because in the article he cites them as reasons for wanting to die. Did you even read the article? or is this all knee jerk reaction?

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: futurepilot16
Posted 2010-12-02 10:09:09 and read 2521 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 31):

I don't know that he wants to spend the "rest of his life in a classroom" HOWEVER the guy cites as one of his reasons for wanting to die that he is incapbable of getting an education.

He never said that. Did you read the article? He says he has no education, he never says he is incapable of getting one. In the article he says he has a two year degree from a community college, but I guess you just glossed over that.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 31):
You are the one making crazy assumptions. I based everything I had to say on what the man cited as his reasoning in the article and the information that I know proves his some of his assumptions to be false.

I haven't assumed anything as of yet. I've been too busy trying to explain to you that despite your suggestions for his happiness, the man wants to die so leave him be.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 31):
I'm not telling him he should do anything I am saying he can do this or that if he chooses do this or that

My point exactly. He never chose to do any of that he chose to die, therefore, he should be left alone to make his own decisions and not coaxed through life by people who assume they know what's best for him.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 31):
Did you even read the article? or is this all knee jerk reaction?

I read it 3 times, something I think you forgot to do once. You probably only read what the OP wrote and then reacted like a "caring" human being would. Unfortunately, caring in this case means interfering in another person's life and not allowing them to make their own decisions.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 31):
I know that he wants those things because in the article he cites them as reasons for wanting to die

Ohh...very interesting. You know that he wants these things because he says so in the article. You acknowledge that he wants Education and love and friendship, therefore, you fail to acknowledge his need for death. Don't you think his wanting to die is just as important as all these other things?

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: iairallie
Posted 2010-12-02 17:01:18 and read 2479 times.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 29):
But it is the height of arrogance to proclaim that any individual should not have the right to make an informed decision regarding his/ her life. Why is it that people object to the idea that a person should have the right to choose?

The guy is depressed he is not capable of making an informed decision about withdrawing life support.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 27):
So far as I can see not one poster has said that .

ALL of the following strongly imply it ...

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1):
He has no way of getting a social life, ever. I
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 8):
And just how could somebody possibly find happiness after laying in bed for 24 continuous [quote=ltbewr,reply=9]our ability to save and prolong life exceeds the ability for someone to have a reasonable quality of normal life.
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 10):
Just think of his quality of life for 24 years. He was royally screwed when he survived to exist as he has for so long.

...Could prolly find more but gotta go to class.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2010-12-02 17:36:11 and read 2467 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):
This guy is depressed he has the right to deny treatment but depression skews judgement and many jurisdictions rightly have laws that protect people from making unalterable decisions when they are not of sound mind. Should we allow all depressed people to kill themselves if they desire?

The one time I was what would probably be called clinically depressed, I was down enough that I even lost interest in being around airplanes. Never in my life has that been the case at any other time - I've gone spotting with a 101F fever. The memory is almost inconceivable to me.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 25):
If this guy want's to kill himself, then so be it.

But that's not the point again - so long as he's clinically depressed, he can't really make that decision soundly. See above.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: BAKJet
Posted 2010-12-02 17:44:20 and read 2464 times.

I think it's stupid to say that he, or any other person, who wants to end his or her life and has the legal right to do so due a medical condition must not be depressed when they make decision; I mean, if they weren't depressed why would they make the decision to end their life*?

*My thought is that any person who ends their life by refusing medical assistance must be depressed to some extent or else, no matter how grim their prospects, they would not make such a decision.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Quokka
Posted 2010-12-02 18:38:24 and read 2457 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 33):
The guy is depressed he is not capable of making an informed decision about withdrawing life support.


In the opinion of the Head Psychiatrist at the hospital. However, different psychiatrists may very well offer different opinions. Psychiatrists have been known to make mistakes.

According to the linked article;

Quote:
When he tried to starve himself, doctors threatened to use a feeding tube and he relented.

In Western Australia this has been likened to assault and was one of the reasons why the hospital in the Christian Rossiter case sought clarification in the Supreme Court. It was a factor in the Court's deciding that Rossiter had the right to refuse treatment.

But my general question is why people who have no compunction with calling for the killing of other people have such a great problem when someone wants to end his or her own life. People quibble with Biblical definitions of the ten commandments, rewriting "thou shalt not kill" as "thou shalt do no murder" so as to endorse killing sinners, enemies, traitors, spies or even innocent people as "collateral damage". Yet they baulk at someone controlling their own life. One life is precious and must be preserved despite that person's wishes. But the lives of millions can be extinguished if the powers that be think it expedient.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: CXB77L
Posted 2010-12-02 20:22:29 and read 2448 times.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 14):
He should get someone to take him from the hospital, take him out to the woods and put a bullet in his head, problem solved.

Then that person who fired the gun would be charged with murder. I don't think you'd get someone willingly commit murder under any circumstances.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 25):
this guy want's to kill himself, then so be it.

But that's it, though, isn't it? Euthanasia isn't suicide, it requires the assistance of another person. What gives anyone the right to take away the life of another human being? I certainly wouldn't do it, even if someone asked me to kill them. I cannot live with the thought that I killed someone. If someone wants to die, he/she has got to do it themselves. Although attempted suicide is an offence here, not sure if it is an offence over in the US as well.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: BMI727
Posted 2010-12-02 20:26:43 and read 2444 times.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 37):
Then that person who fired the gun would be charged with murder. I don't think you'd get someone willingly commit murder under any circumstances.

In this case it is important to make the distinction between actively taking action to kill oneself and simply refusing treatment which results in death.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2010-12-02 21:02:34 and read 2431 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):
Quadreplegia does not by default = a worthless life.

Nobody here (nor even our guy) says it does.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):
Treat his depression and re-evaluate to see if he still wants to deny treatment

But according to you, the very decision to end his treatment proves he's depressed and can't make that decision.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):
What an arrogant thing to do.

No, what's arrogant is this:

Quoting iairallie (Reply 26):

NO how dare people on this thread say that being a quadriplegic automatically means you have no hope of any quality of life and that as a quad your life is automatically so worthless that you should just go ahead and die when EVERYONE of with a functioning mind is capable of contributing something to society.

When nobody has even hinted at such a thing. Arrogance is telling this guy that he's not allowed to have opinions that include the willful ending of his life. How dare you think you can overrule the wishes of someone you've never met and judge all people with a broad stroke because you know exactly ONE quadriplegic who's living a productive life in his eyes

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 28):
We should be bending over backwards to help him find a purpose and direction in life, not a pathway to the grave.

After 25 years, I think this guy has had that. But then I've never met him, so I can't say either way. But to outright deny that people should be allowed to decide their own future simply because they're in a wheelchair, frankly, pisses me off.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 33):

The guy is depressed he is not capable of making an informed decision about withdrawing life support.

Again, it sounds like anyone who wants to withdraw life support is depressed and uninformed. So are we to ignore living wills and DNRs now?

Quoting Quokka (Reply 36):
Psychiatrists have been known to make mistakes.

Because as much as people hate to admit it, you cannot fix a person's head.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Fly2HMO
Posted 2010-12-02 21:13:41 and read 2423 times.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):

But that's not the point again - so long as he's clinically depressed, he can't really make that decision soundly. See above.

I think everybody is overlooking the fact that this isn't the first time he's said this. It's only the first time the press has gotten word of it. And just FYI, I'm no stranger to severe depression at all.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 37):
What gives anyone the right to take away the life of another human being?

A written or verbal statement with that request stating whoever will take this persons life will not be held accountable or made guilty or whatever and that said person is doing it on his own free will. Aaaaaaaaaaand as I said:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 25):

If I was him I'd just hire an executioner from whatever the nearest death penalty-friendly prison and have him lethally inject me.

Obviously the legality is not that simple by any means, but surely there must be some loophole that could be taken advantage off. And just because it may seem unethical to some it doesn't mean it's necessarily illegal, and vice versa

[Edited 2010-12-02 21:38:59]

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: san747
Posted 2010-12-02 21:17:49 and read 2425 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):

Quoting Quokka (Reply 36):
Psychiatrists have been known to make mistakes.

Because as much as people hate to admit it, you cannot fix a person's head.

I'm not attacking what you said, but I just want to clarify- do you mean psychology/psychiatry do not work or are generally ineffective?

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2010-12-02 21:30:12 and read 2418 times.

Quoting san747 (Reply 41):
do you mean psychology/psychiatry do not work or are generally ineffective?

The vast majority of people can be manipulated (for lack of a better word), via medication and counseling (usually both), into changing a certain trait or behavior, because the structure of their brain and their neural pathways allow it to happen. Note that this generally does not fix the problem (hence why you see most of the target people on some sort of medication and/or in counseling for life), but it's a band-aid.

I'm not suggesting that it's ineffective or doesn't work, but when people refer to psychiatrists/psychologists making mistakes, I feel that it's usually more a product of someone not being able to respond to any sort of treatment.

I'm not saying, either, that people who express the wish to die be granted immediate access to that (DNRs and such excluded), because there's still a high chance that a "band-aid" can be applied and they can live an otherwise normal, healthy, and happy life.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: san747
Posted 2010-12-02 22:11:23 and read 2409 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 42):

OK, I just asked because I'm actually working on my degree in Psychology to eventually become a clinical psychologist, and hopefully a marriage/family therapist with my own practice. I always find it interesting to hear people's opinions on the profession, its fascinating how various they are!

And I don't take it as you're trying to impugn psychology/psychiatry or anything, just pointing out its limitations  

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: iairallie
Posted 2010-12-03 01:07:46 and read 2391 times.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 32):
he never says he is incapable of getting one
Quoting thegreatRDU (Thread starter):
"I have no friends," Crews told ABC News. "I have no education. No education prospects. No job prospects. I have no love prospects. All I want is to no longer live like this."


prospects =
the possibility of future success; "his prospects as a writer are excellent"
expectation: belief about (or mental picture of) the future
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
If he claims he has no educational prospects then he is saying he is incapable of future success in obtaining an education and has no expectation of an education in the future

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 32):
Don't you think his wanting to die is just as important as all these other things?


If he still feels that way when he is no longer being influenced by depression it is his legal right to refuse treatment.

Quoting BAKJet (Reply 35):
if they weren't depressed why would they make the decision to end their life*?


There are many reasons why people decline life preserving treatment (which is, btw, legally different than suicide) that are unrelated to one's mental state or depression. If the only reason why a person would choose to refuse life preserving treatment was depression, then there would be no such thing as advanced directives (like the one Doclightning made).

Quoting BAKJet (Reply 35):
*My thought is that any person who ends their life by refusing medical assistance must be depressed to some extent or else, no matter how grim their prospects, they would not make such a decision.


Your thoughts are factually incorrect. People create advanced medical directives in the complete absence of any depression for a multitude of reasons which are unrelated to depression. These documents are not valid unless the person creating it was mentally sound. The reasons that prompt an advanced medical directive also apply when making a decision to refuse treatment in real time. So there need not be a depression related element to the decision making process. ex. one might have a religious prohibition against artificial life support or one might not want to prolong physical suffering from a painful disease, or they may not want to burden their family that way.
Quoting Quokka (Reply 36):
In the opinion of the Head Psychiatrist at the hospital. However, different psychiatrists may very well offer different opinions. Psychiatrists have been known to make mistakes.


Which is why when you have a legal challenge about something like this both sides are permitted to bring forth experts. If Mr. Crowe can produce expert opinion which can convince the judge or jury that he is of sound enough mind to make this decision then the ct has no choice but to respect his choice. I too would respect that choice. His current mental health caretakers do NOT have the final word. They have A say but not the only say in the matter.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 38):
In this case it is important to make the distinction between actively taking action to kill oneself and simply refusing treatment which results in death.


Absolutely, thanks for pointing it out.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
But according to you, the very decision to end his treatment proves he's depressed and can't make that decision.


I never said that, hinted at that or implied that. Don't falsely attribute opinions to me.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
ONE quadriplegic who's living a productive life in his eyes


2 examples, one of a man I read about who owns a successful business and Colby. So I only personally know of two that doesn't mean there aren't more. Only one example is all that is necessary to show that quadriplegia isn't a de facto bar on having the things that Mr. Crow claimed he did not have because of his quadriplegia.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
But to outright deny that people should be allowed to decide their own future simply because they're in a wheelchair, frankly, pisses me off


That is not the law in fact or in practice. EVERYONE of sound mind has the constitutional right to refuse treatment EVEN if that treatment is necessary to keep them alive.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
Again, it sounds like anyone who wants to withdraw life support is depressed and uninformed. So are we to ignore living wills and DNRs now?


I never said that and nothing I said even sounds like that.

The only thing I have said is that this particular person, Mr. Crowe, has been diagnosed with depression. Depression is an altered mental state that impairs a persons ability to legally make certain decisions.

I did not say all people who wish to have life support withdrawn are depressed. Basic logic, you do not haz it. This B is A but not all B's are A.

I did not at any time say the desire to withdraw lifesupport means one is depressed or uniformed nor did I imply it. The very existence of DNRs, Living wills and other types of advanced medical directives are PROOF that the desire to refuse life preserving treatment has NO de facto tie to depression. And I never claimed such.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 40):
A written or verbal statement with that request stating whoever will take this persons life will not be held accountable or made guilty or whatever and that said person is doing it on his own free will. Aaaaaaaaaaand as I said:


Yeah, that's not legally sufficient. You cannot waive another person's accountablity for the commision of a crime like murder. Furthermore, that would be way too open to abuse.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 42):
Note that this generally does not fix the problem (hence why you see most of the target people on some sort of medication and/or in counseling for life), but it's a band-aid.


SO now you equivocate? before you flatly said you can't fix someone's head, which is patently untrue when it comes to a mental illness like Depression. Depression is generally a temporary state and it CAN be treated in many if not most cases (no illness physical or mental is 100% treatable in every person). My mother suffered from very severe depression for a time and even attempted suicide at one point. She received emergency mental health treatment, then ongoing treatment (therapy & drugs) and then eventually she had no more need of treatment of any kind. It has been almost 3 decades since that period in her life and she has been very mentally healthy since then.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: CXB77L
Posted 2010-12-03 02:12:15 and read 2378 times.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 40):
A written or verbal statement with that request stating whoever will take this persons life will not be held accountable or made guilty or whatever and that said person is doing it on his own free will.

Then that raises the question whether the person's consent was an exercise of his independent free will, as well as whether the person is of sound mind, or whether the person has the legal capacity to make such a decision. Killing someone is not a civil offence, it is a criminal offence, a verbal or written statement supposedly from the patient (of sound mind and exercising his own free will without any undue influence) does not indemnify the person executing (if you like) him from criminal responsibility.

This is a complex legal as well as moral matter. There has been a recent push to introduce this legislation in Australia, but the Bill did not pass. Nor did it pass in Scotland. A number of countries have debated the merits of euthanasia laws but have failed to pass through parliament. It is immoral to introduce a law that allows the killing of another person. If a person wanted to end his own life, he should throw himself off a cliff. Don't get anyone else involved.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2010-12-03 04:44:05 and read 2360 times.

Circumstances like this are a good reason to have a 'Living Will' or a Medical Directive if an adult or by a parent as to their child or a marriage or civil union partner. Hospice services are also very important for those facing end of life conditions to prevent excessive care of no value to anyone. It's too bad this man can be give his choice.

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2010-12-03 13:56:45 and read 2307 times.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 45):
It is immoral to introduce a law that allows the killing of another person. If a person wanted to end his own life, he should throw himself off a cliff. Don't get anyone else involved.

How exactly is this young man supposed to throw himself of a cliff ? By necessity his wish to be permitted to die is going to involve others as he lacks the physical capacity to carry out the act for himself .

Another important point that I think many people are missing is that this young man did not suddenly make this decision in the last few days , he has been begging for 18 months to be allowed to die and yet many posters seem to be taking the view that this is some sort of whim and that he will soon change his mind , I think that perhaps rather than questioning his mental capacity to make choices about his own life we should be querying the mental state of those who feel that they have the right to force him against his will to carry on with an existence that he finds unbearable .

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: BAKJet
Posted 2010-12-03 17:42:34 and read 2277 times.

Quoting iairallie (Reply 44):

Your thoughts are factually incorrect. People create advanced medical directives in the complete absence of any depression for a multitude of reasons which are unrelated to depression. These documents are not valid unless the person creating it was mentally sound. The reasons that prompt an advanced medical directive also apply when making a decision to refuse treatment in real time. So there need not be a depression related element to the decision making process. ex. one might have a religious prohibition against artificial life support or one might not want to prolong physical suffering from a painful disease, or they may not want to burden their family that way.

I'm well aware of the fact that people make directives to refuse medical treatment in anticipation of possible future events. But, wouldn't knowing that if you continue living, you will suffer, have no other choice but use artificial life support and/or be, or (more likely) feel like you are being, a burden on your family and, because of one or more of those reasons, making the decision to die (whether the decison was made before you were in the situation or not) be some sort of depression when it happens even though it was not when the directive was made? Aren't those directives made, to some extent, in anticipation of future depression?

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-12-03 18:26:22 and read 2265 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
I know that if I ever were a quadruplegic, I would want the plug pulled. In fact, it's in my living will that I, as an active adult who is in sound mind, do not want to be kept alive if I am not able to breathe for myself in the long term.

I think similarly. If I'm seriously injured - I don't want to be kept on life support. Just let me go and be done with it.

Being in vegetative state (another kind of thing) or not being able to do anything for myself (stuck in a wheelchair) is not the way I want to be.

[Edited 2010-12-03 18:49:03]

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2010-12-03 18:35:02 and read 2255 times.

Quoting cpd (Reply 49):
Being in vegetative state, not able to do anything for yourself is not the way to be.

While I agree that I would also expect to have the right to determine my own future please don't play into the hands of some on this forum by confusing quadriplegia , a physical disability , with being in a vegetative state . This man is not in a vegetative state, the fact that he can clearly advise people that he wishes to be allowed to die proves that he is not , he can think , and , having thought things through he has expressed his wish to be permitted to die , someone in a vegetative state cannot do that .

Topic: RE: Quadriplegic Begs To Die, But Hospital Refuses
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-12-03 18:50:33 and read 2247 times.

And at the same time, if I'm unable to fend for myself in any way whatsoever, I don't want to be left like that. And besides, I don't think anyone would particularly care if I were gone. Respecting the wishes of someone is the right thing to do.

I've edited my message above - I was tired and not thinking properly.

[Edited 2010-12-03 18:51:33]


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/