A coworker of mine, who has been on the kidney transplant waiting list for several years, finally got a new kidney. The operation and everything else went awesomely, from what I hear. It was a big relief to everyone, including those of us who feared we might reasonably be asked why we weren't donating our own kidneys (don't even know if I'm a match, but still guilty).

If I understand things here (and I recommend you all take that bet), the kidneys' job is to clean your blood; just like the filter in your fish tank cleans the water.

Well, every couple of weeks you have to put fresh filtery stuff in there, new charcoal and foam - or at least rinse off the foam insert.

So that makes me wonder - whatever schmutz my kidneys are nice enough to remove from my blood for me, what ultimately happens to that schmutz? Is there a mechamanism for the kidney to dispose of it? Or, does it just hold on to it all through life and that's why some folks ultimately need transplants??

If it's the latter, then how do we prevent this? I already eat only natural foods (haven't even STEPPED FOOT in a McD's since 1993) but I guess I could drink less diet cola than I do. Also I eat more pizza than I ought to; does a --- hmm, let's say "unideal" cholesterol count make more work for the kidneys?

Quoting Airstud (Thread starter): So that makes me wonder - whatever schmutz my kidneys are nice enough to remove from my blood for me, what ultimately happens to that schmutz? Is there a mechamanism for the kidney to dispose of it? Or, does it just hold on to it all through life and that's why some folks ultimately need transplants??

Uh is it not obvious? There's this thing called urination which does just that.

Kidney transplants are usually done for reasons more complicated than "schmutz" just piling up.   

It does make you wonder.

The human body is a wonderfully designed machine. It's self-cleaning and self-healing.
We do have to take care of it though, like every other machine.

I have always wondered what role the water we drink (and eat) plays in cleaning our kidneys (by, uh, flushing them?)...

I'm sure the Doc will be around any minute now with some insight.

I don't eat kidney but I love liver. I just rinse it lightly in warm tap water before cooking.

Hmmm, HMO is on to something here. Schmutz leaves the kidneys via the ureters and is stored in the bladder till expulsion; that's what I remember from middle school.

I wonder what I was wondering about in the first place, then. I am getting so much dumber these days.

Though it seems the system could be more streamlined - why have separate organs performing filtration and storage of residue?

I've always wondered the same thing about the esophagus. Why not just have the stomach up higher?

It's better to think of the kidney as an active separator than as a passive filter. It's not much like a fish tank filter at all. The fish tank filter is there to get rid of particulates, dirt and poop and such; the kidneys deal not only with VERY small particulates (like large proteins), but also with stuff that is in solution.

The kidneys start by filtering, but in this case the "dirty" side is actually the side you keep (e.g. you want to keep blood cells!). Then the kidney cells actively transport stuff in both directions to reclaim important stuff and get rid of bad stuff that is still on the bloodstream side.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4): I've always wondered the same thing about the esophagus. Why not just have the stomach up higher?

Maybe you should NOT sit by the microwave while it's running.

I guess this is sort of off topic, but at the same time somewhat relevant. What I've always wondered is, why is it that whatever colour liquids you drink always come out...well...yellow? Where do all the colours go?!   

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4): I've always wondered the same thing about the esophagus. Why not just have the stomach up higher?

Because the way to your bottom would be too long in that case!   

Quoting PITingres (Reply 5): you want to keep blood cells

If you've got cells in your primary urine, you really do have a problem.  

Quoting BAViscount (Reply 7): Where do all the colours go?!

First of all, your kidneys have very, very little to do with digestion. They do not filter the contents of your gastrointestinal system, but your blood. You would look for food colourings in your stool, where they can indeed end up. However, they are of course mixed with all the other stuff you've eaten and digested and much of the water they were in has been taken up, so you would have to look at that stuff very, very closely... which, take it from me, is not at all worth it unless you have a medical interest in it.

Quoting Airstud (Thread starter): So that makes me wonder - whatever schmutz my kidneys are nice enough to remove from my blood for me, what ultimately happens to that schmutz? Is there a mechamanism for the kidney to dispose of it? Or, does it just hold on to it all through life and that's why some folks ultimately need transplants??

Let me make this easy:

DON'T ASK.

After getting my B.S. and M.S. in Biology, I sat through TWENTY HOURS of renal physiology lectures in med school. And I *STILL* don't get exactly how they work.

There are a very few select people who do. These people are so highly sought after that they are given a name ("nephrologists") and paid very well for understand this incomprehensible organ.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4): I've always wondered the same thing about the esophagus. Why not just have the stomach up higher?

Because your lungs need to be there and there isn't room for both. Also, you would be constantly drawing air into and out of your stomach, which would be socially inconvenient.

Hmmmm....but "'The Journey of Schmutz' = blood -> kidney -> ureter -> urinary bladder -> urethra -> toodles" is still a sufficient layman's explanation, isn't it?

Also, if there were a city made entirely of esophaguses, it would be called Esophagusopolis.

(Public transport would be via peristalsis.)

What cleans my kidneys? Beer

Quoting Airstud (Thread starter): So that makes me wonder - whatever schmutz my kidneys are nice enough to remove from my blood for me, what ultimately happens to that schmutz?

The byproduct your kidneys remove is urea. It's the major nitrogenous end product of protein metabolism, and is the chief nitrogenous component of the urine. It's the chemical that gives urine a yellow tint. If you're drinking a lot of fluid, the concentration in the urine will be lower, hence a weaker color. If you're dehydrated, and haven't passed out as much urea, then the urine is darker yellow.

[Edited 2011-02-16 14:50:03]

Quoting Airstud (Reply 10): Also, if there were a city made entirely of esophaguses, it would be called Esophagusopolis. (Public transport would be via peristalsis.)

LOL

If you really want to confound yourself, start researching electrophysiology - the study of heart rhythm.

Quoting Airstud (Thread starter): So Who Cleans Your Kidneys?

JiffyLube. With a coupon, I also get a free emissions test.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 2): The human body is a wonderfully designed machine. It's self-cleaning and self-healing. We do have to take care of it though, like every other machine.

Actually it is quite a poor designed machine. Probably because it wasn't designed but evolved  

- Our bodies are self-healing, but it's an imperfect process, that's why we age;
- We have several redundant organs and appendages which don't do very much but still cost valuable energy. Think of the spleen, small toe, body hair, a spare kidney, wisdom teeth, etc
- We breath and eat through the same hole, now that is really stupid! Whales and dolphins got it right, they never choke  
- Our skeleton system is not really build very well for walking upright

[Edited 2011-02-17 01:37:30]

Usually Molson Canadian cleans my kidneys on weekends. Now there are occasions where the kidneys must really be punished er cleaned and Absolut and OJ does that nicely.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 19): the spleen

The spleen redundant? Not at all. While you can survive without, you're far better of with a healthy spleen.

pelican

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 19): - We breath and eat through the same hole, now that is really stupid! Whales and dolphins got it right, they never choke

Actually, it's more complex than that. The first problem that we have is that our noses are too small to allow for good breathing if there is any inflammation of the nasal mucosa. This isn't the case for whales and dolphins. But they CAN breathe through their mouths if they have to, it's just difficult to get their mouths all the way out of the water.

The bad design is the fact that our GI and respiratory tracts cross at the throat. Above the neck, the respiratory tract is posterior/superior to the GI tract. Below the neck, it's anterior. That crossing requires a very intricate system of muscles, flaps, and other such contrivances to make sure that the right thing goes down the right tube. The one advantage is that if the nose is plugged we can mouth breathe.

Quoting aloges (Reply 8): You would look for food colourings in your stool, where they can indeed end up.

If you eat beets, you get coloured stool and urine! I didn't eat them when I was young, I was in for a surprise when I started eating them a few years ago.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23): Quoting travelavnut (Reply 19): - We breath and eat through the same hole, now that is really stupid! Whales and dolphins got it right, they never choke Actually, it's more complex than that. The first problem that we have is that our noses are too small to allow for good breathing if there is any inflammation of the nasal mucosa. This isn't the case for whales and dolphins. But they CAN breathe through their mouths if they have to, it's just difficult to get their mouths all the way out of the water. The bad design is the fact that our GI and respiratory tracts cross at the throat. Above the neck, the respiratory tract is posterior/superior to the GI tract. Below the neck, it's anterior. That crossing requires a very intricate system of muscles, flaps, and other such contrivances to make sure that the right thing goes down the right tube. The one advantage is that if the nose is plugged we can mouth breathe.

Thanks Doc! So if you could redesign the human respiratory system, what would it look like?

Quoting pelican (Reply 22): The spleen redundant? Not at all. While you can survive without, you're far better of with a healthy spleen.

I know you´re far better of with a spleen, but I´ve been told that for a whole organ it doesn´t do that much, and that it is in fact quite inefficient. But I´m no doctor, so is that correct DocLightning?

Doesn't the spleen manumafacture all your blood cells when you're in utero, before your bone marrow is developed enough to take over that task?

To answer the OP, my kidneys are cleaned every other tuesday by a very nice Mexican lady named Concepción. $70 per cleaning. She does a very thorough job, too. Polishes the countertops, sweeps the floors, changes the linens (kidney linens get notoriously dirty).

OK, I'll shut up now.

I guess pure clean H2O 

Cheerios,

Quoting swissy (Reply 23): I guess pure clean H2O

That's not the best idea - you do need some minerals.

Quoting aloges (Reply 24): That's not the best idea - you do need some minerals.

Yes, but it is a myth that drinking pure water somehow "leaches" minerals out of your body. Your body is not a steel pipe. You can get minerals from many sources and the trace amounts found in drinking water do not make any difference.

Anyway, truly pure H2O is very difficult to make. It requires multiple steps of filtration, distillation, and deionization. And as soon as it touches air, there will immediately be dissolved nitrogen, carbonate, and oxygen. I've tasted absolutely pure H2O (well, double-distilled, deionized, microfiltered) and it tastes a bit funny.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25): Anyway, truly pure H2O is very difficult to make.

I'll get pedantic one more time: it's completely impossible to make.  

Quoting aloges (Reply 24): That's not the best idea - you do need some minerals.

Sure we should first define what is pure H2O ... RO water is bad for you, destroyed by ''us''...but there are way to many people running to the Water stores, or have these faucets installed at home...

Distilling water, de mineralization, deionized..no good for permanent consumption...

The trick is removing all the harmful ingredients (active bio film and its feeding grounds) without destroying the core integrity of the H2O, trying not to remove all these life saving minerals, brake down the clustering (over sized) minerals down to a size our cells are able to absorb them and send them off where needed in our bodies ... tasty refreshing healthy water without any funny tastes and no refraction....

Cheerios,

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25): Anyway, truly pure H2O is very difficult to make. It requires multiple steps of filtration, distillation, and deionization. And as soon as it touches air, there will immediately be dissolved nitrogen, carbonate, and oxygen. I've tasted absolutely pure H2O (well, double-distilled, deionized, microfiltered) and it tastes a bit funny.

Would have agreed with you 6 years ago ... you are right there is filtration involved and the double distilling and deionized water gives it a weired taste, can not give too much info right now but you can filter water safely down to "ultra filtration" level, any smaller and you remove these important minerals... any thing less you have to much cr.. left in the water 

Trust me Doc, the water we have @ our home is super tasty 

Quoting aloges (Reply 26): I'll get pedantic one more time: it's completely impossible to make.

Pure H2O is for me, water that does not make me sick and helps me sustain a healthy life  and it is possible to make that kind of water  today

Cheerios,

Quoting swissy (Reply 28): Pure H2O is for me, water that does not make me sick and helps me sustain a healthy life and it is possible to make that kind of water today

I agree with that definition - to be honest, I was just being needlessly pedantic in reply #24.  

Quoting swissy (Reply 28): can not give too much info right now but you can filter water safely down to "ultra filtration" level, any smaller and you remove these important minerals...

That makes no sense. Minerals are dissolved in water and so they are removed either in distillation or deionization. No filter can remove dissolved minerals unless it's ionized.

You do not need minerals in your water. You need them, but they don't have to be in the water.

Ya know what's a really nice mineral, is mica.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30): No filter can remove dissolved minerals unless it's ionized.

Yes you can  Doc... filters/membranes are just one part of the process and if the clustering is "big" enough you can safely "filter" TDS's out... hey at one time the people though the world was flat  always keep your mind open 

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30): You do not need minerals in your water. You need them, but they don't have to be in the water.

You see I believe that is a misconception in general... (ok I am not doctor by any means) TDS (total dissolved solids) are in the water for a reason, our bodies absorb stuff in liquid form far better then "solid" form, there is bottled H2O out there that has all the minerals removed for "cleaning" & uniform taste purpose and afterwards again enriched with minerals... taste horrible and I would like to see the studies done one how much of these minerals are actually being able to be absorbed by our bodies... eh guess no studies done on that , if the size of these minerals are to big your body will not be able to absorb them... remember water has its own "DNA" and if you take something away it will take it from somewhere else, hence if you drink H2O with all the stuff removed it will deplete your body of its all minerals in no time....

We are popping way to many pills (vitamins and minerals) and you would think we should be healthier but for some reason the opposite is happening, a little bug is flying around and we are dead in the water.

Heaven forbid we would not have to go to the doctors so much anymore or pop all the pills just so we can make it to the next day...(talking about all these vitamins & minerals)

Quoting aloges (Reply 29): I agree with that definition - to be honest, I was just being needlessly pedantic in reply #24

No sweat we have one big H2O system installed in Germany since 2009... and the neighborhood is stopping by and takes it by the truck loads 

For obvious reasons can I not go too deep into details (for now) and 6 years ago I would have had the same views/opinion, however what we have seen in the past 5 years with our own eyes (and bodies) and the eyes of our friends/neighbors H2O does matter far more then we thought, but once you are past the "perplex" stage you are fine  and today I can say our H2O at home does not make anybody sick anymore (human & animals)

Cheerios,

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30): That makes no sense. Minerals are dissolved in water and so they are removed either in distillation or deionization.

Hey Doc... think of it like, how did mother nature got these minerals in the water? reverse the process based on the mother nature .... hope makes sense 

Cheerios,

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30): No filter can remove dissolved minerals unless it's ionized.

Correct, in the usual sense of "filter" as a membrane that mechanically blocks passage. False, if you include reverse osmosis. Osmosis doesn't require ions.

Quoting swissy (Reply 32): You see I believe that is a misconception in general...

I'm really not sure what you are trying to argue here, but there's no denying the basic chemistry that (for example) a Ca+2 ion is a Ca+2 ion and your intestine doesn't know, and can't know, whether it arrived in a glass of water, or in a ham slice, or peanut butter, or whatever.

If you remove minerals from drinking water, and fail to replace them some other way, you might have problems. But the notion of "pure" water (whatever that's supposed to mean) somehow actively leaching out minerals from the body is pseudo-science and counter factual. "Mineral" is a pretty vague concept anyway.

Quoting swissy (Reply 33): how did mother nature got these minerals in the water

Depends on what water you're talking about. River water? spring water? rain water? They're hardly the same in content even in one location, never mind world-wide. Humans seem to be able to process most natural water sources without issue, which means the body has to be pretty flexible about how it gets its water-bourne nutrient requirements. If any.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 6): Maybe you should NOT sit by the microwave while it's running.

Now that was funny!

Quoting PITingres (Reply 34): I'm really not sure what you are trying to argue here, but there's no denying the basic chemistry that (for example) a Ca 2 ion is a Ca 2 ion and your intestine doesn't know, and can't know, whether it arrived in a glass of water, or in a ham slice, or peanut butter, or whatever.

No argument, just try to bring in a different angle (view), and yes that is why there is more and more enriched food/beverage in our stores, quite shocking enriched this and that, but people fail to make the connections and why the industry is doing it...but fact is the "mineral" deficiency is growing daily, the consumption of bottled "mineral water" is growing daily...

We did a study 2 years ago with animals (chickens), give them RO water and compensate with enriched mineral feed versus "regular" feed and that water... results are quite different, even a well known university in the USA was/is shocked.... based on that I believe in your example Ca 2 in dissolved H2O is being absorbed far better compare to a slice of peanut bread, try to control the clustering and size is a lot easier in "liquid" from

Try understand that some of it is new technology and not ready for the public (yet)... however just remember before someone came up with the ionization/RO process people thought it was not possible to do so.... unfortunately the internet did not exist back then...because we would have the same arguments about it 

Anyhow, ciao for now